Michael le Fleming - 1153
Nancy Allen
Num. VII
Alia carta ejusdem Michaelis
In nomine Patris et Filii et Spiritus Sancti Amen. Notum sit omnibus tam futuris quam presentibus, quod ego Michael Flamengus providens et in Deo consulens saluti animæ meæ, patris et matris meæ, et uxoris meæ, et filiorum meorum, anno ab Incarnatione Domini MCliij. dono et concede Deo et sanctæ Mariæ de Forneys et abbati illus loci totique conventui ibidem Deo servienti Fordebote cum omnibus suis appendicitis in perpetuam elemosinam. Quam donationem ita solutam et ab omni calumpnia omnium mortalium quietam et liberam dono, sicut oblationem Deo in odorem suavitatis et sicut sacrificium quod Deo offerimus, saltim vespertium. Signum ipsius M. concedente Guillelmo filio meo et hærede, et omnibus filiis meis. Signum Guillelmi filii M. Signum Gregorii nepotism M. Signum Hugonis filii Ledred. Signum Lamberti .
Nathaniel Taylor
"Nancy Allen" <all...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
"Sign of the same Michael, with the consent of William my son and heir,
and all my sons. Sign of William son of Michael. Sign of Gregory,
*nepos* of Michael. Sign of Hugh son of Ledred. Sign of Lambert."
Nat Taylor
a genealogist's sketchbook:
http://www.nltaylor.net/sketchbook/
Nancy Allen
"signed by me with consent of William my son and heir, and with the consent of all my children. Signed by William my son, Gregory my grandson, and Hugh."
White omits that Hugh is the son of Ledred, making it appear that Hugh was also related.
Does anyone know of a Ledred? Could it have been Eldred instead?
Nancy
"Nathaniel Taylor" <nlta...@nltaylor.net> wrote in message news:nltaylor-219E89...@earthlink.vsrv-sjc.supernews.net...
FDP...@aol.com
> Thanks, Nat. The translation in White's Lays and Legends of the English Lake Country is:
> "signed by me with consent of William my son and heir, and with the consent of all my children. Signed by William my son, Gregory my grandson, and Hugh."
> White omits that Hugh is the son of Ledred, making it appear that Hugh was also related.
> Does anyone know of a Ledred? Could it have been Eldred instead?
> Nancy
>
>
>
> > In article <mailman.194.1215699971.4463.gen-medie...@rootsweb.com>,
> > "Nancy Allen" <alle...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>
> >> Below is the second charter of Michael le Fleming to the abbey of Furness
> >> from Dugdale's Monasticum Anglicanum. Would someone please translate the
> >> witnesses for me.
>
> >> Num. VII
>
> >> Alia carta ejusdem Michaelis
>
> >> In nomine Patris et Filii et Spiritus Sancti Amen. Notum sit omnibus tam
> >> futuris quam presentibus, quod ego Michael Flamengus providens et in Deo
> >> consulens saluti animæ meæ, patris et matris meæ, et uxoris meæ, et filiorum
> >> meorum, anno ab Incarnatione Domini MCliij. dono et concede Deo et sanctæ
> >> Mariæ de Forneys et abbati illus loci totique conventui ibidem Deo servienti
> >> Fordebote cum omnibus suis appendicitis in perpetuam elemosinam. Quam
> >> donationem ita solutam et ab omni calumpnia omnium mortalium quietam et
> >> liberam dono, sicut oblationem Deo in odorem suavitatis et sicut sacrificium
> >> quod Deo offerimus, saltim vespertium. Signum ipsius M. concedente Guillelmo
> >> filio meo et hærede, et omnibus filiis meis. Signum Guillelmi filii M.
> >> Signum Gregorii nepotism M. Signum Hugonis filii Ledred. Signum Lamberti .
>
> > "Sign of the same Michael, with the consent of William my son and heir,
> > and all my sons. Sign of William son of Michael. Sign of Gregory,
> > *nepos* of Michael. Sign of Hugh son of Ledred. Sign of Lambert."
>
> > Nat Taylor
> > a genealogist's sketchbook:
>
> - Show quoted text -
Dear Nancy
I too am interested in Michael and his descendants. Michael’s son
Anselm’s daughter Erneburga married my ancestor Sir Richard de Preston
of Preston Richard co. Westmorland.
Tim Cartmell sent me an article regarding Ulf published in
Transactions, CWAAS, New Series, Vol. 1941, article “Ulf and his
descendants”, by Rev. W.S. Sykes, but nothing was revealed about his
origins or parentage. The author was of the mind that Ulf of
Yorkshire, Ulf of Lonsdale, and Ulf of Cumberland were one in the same
person and that he was probable related to Ketel FitzEldred. This Ulf
is supposed ancestor of the Pennington family of Mulcaster, and the de
Copeland family in Cumberland. Sykes stated that Ulf was the father
of Efward “de Caupland“ of Ravenglass, Waberthwaite and Hyton in
Cumberland; and Ketel “de Caupland“ of Bootle in Cumberland; and an
unknown daughter who married Gamel de Pennington of Penyington in
Lancashire, and later of Mulcaster (Muncaster) in Cumberland.
The author Rev. Sykes stated specifically, "At Domesday, Ulf held
large possessions of land in Yorkshire at (Long) Preston and
Stainforth and Wigglesworth. In Lonsdale, he held Melling, Hornby,
and Wennington, and had lands in Cokerham and Lonsdale itself. In
Cumberland, Ulf held Ravenglass, Bootle, Waberthwaite, and Mulcaster,
and also held lands at Hensingham, Kelton, Saltergh, Gosforth and
Irton. In both Lonsdale and Cumberland, Ulf had held some lands in
conjunction with Ketel FitzEldred. These possessions of Ulf in
Lonsdale and Ulf in Cumberland were not only interwoven with the
possessions of the family of Ketel FitzEldred but were also held in
both places subject to "feudel rights" and this could only be so if
the two families of Ulf and Ketel FitzEldred were akin." Source,
Transactions, CWAAS, New Series, Vol. 1941, article 'Ulf and his
descendants', by Rev. W.S. Sykes, pgs. 123-125.
Page 127 displays a chart of descent for Efward f. Ulf. Efward had
several sons William, Alexander, Roger, Hugh, and Ulf Jr. This Ulf jr.
married le Fleming of Furness, the sister of Anselm (presumably
Goditha) before 1189. Given this association with Michael’s family I
would suggest to you that Ledred is identical with Efward father of
Hugh. Ulf Jr. was father to Robert, Henry, & Alexander called de
Hiton.
Hope this helps; sincerely,
Dix Preston
Nancy Allen
I believe that my ancestry is through Michael's son William down through
Alicia/Alice who marrried Sir Richard de Cancefield. I haven't done much
research on your ancestor Anselm, but Washington's "The Early History of the
Stricklands of Sizergh" states that the four daughters of Anselm de
Furness and Agnes of Dunbar were Eleanor wife of Ralph d'Eyncourt, Erneburga
wife of Richard de Preston, Isabel wife of Thomas fitz John, and a daughter
who was wife of Patrick de Borwick.
You stated that Ulf jr.married le Fleming of Furness, the sister of Anselm
(presumably Goditha) before 1189. I have found conflicting information
regarding the husband of Goditha, sister of Anselm. (1) Farrer's
"Lancashire Inquests, Extents, and Feudal Aids" & "The Lancashire and
Cheshire Antiquarian Society" state that Godith married Alan son of Ketel de
Copeland. (2) Betham's "The Baronetage of England" & "The Early History of
the Stricklands of Sizergh" state that this Godith married William de
Essenby.
Nancy
______
>From Dix Preston:
Dear Nancy
sons William, Alexander, Roger, Hugh, and Ulf Jr. This Ulf jr.married le
al...@mindspring.com
> You stated that Ulf jr.married le Fleming of Furness, the sister of Anselm
> (presumably Goditha) before 1189. I have found conflicting information
> regarding the husband of Goditha, sister of Anselm. (1) Farrer's
> "Lancashire Inquests, Extents, and Feudal Aids" & "The Lancashire and
> Cheshire Antiquarian Society" state that Godith married Alan son of Ketel de
> Copeland. (2) Betham's "The Baronetage of England" & "The Early History of
> the Stricklands of Sizergh" state that this Godith married William de
> Essenby.
>
> Nancy
> ______
I think it was Croston that called her husband William fitz Edward.
Perhaps this is the same as William of Essenby. Might even be William
fitz Efward the brother of Ulf jr.
Doug Smith
Nancy Allen
states that Goditha, the daughter of Michael le Fleming, became the wife of
William, son of Edward (de Scales ?).
Nancy
Doug Smith
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