CP Addition: Jordan Foliot (d. 1235) and Frisby, co. Lincs.

63 views
Skip to first unread message

The...@aol.com

unread,
Sep 30, 2003, 10:22:03 AM9/30/03
to
Tuesday, 30 September, 2003


Hello All,

As noted in several prior SGM threads (Loose Foliots &
others), the Foliot family(ies) provide ponderous placement
problems. There are 4 pages of Foliots in Domesday Descendants
(981-984), many of whom have been previously placed in existing
pedigrees (Hemyock/North Tawton, Devon; Chipping Warden,
Northants.; and Norton/Gressenhall) but some of which have not.

One particular entry in DD provides additional evidence for
placing the individual(s) identified therein:

" Foliot, Jordan
Attested a charter of Countess Lucy of Chester c.
1135 with his brothers Richard and Payn. Possibly
distinct from the Jordan Foliot, brother of Henry,
who held three fees of Henry de Lacy of Pontefract
in 1166; this Jordan, son of William, was also
brother of a Richard (EYC ii, 849). In 1212 Jordan
Foliot had one fee of Roger de Lacy (then dead)
in Frisby and Hackthorne, Lincolnshire (Fees, 190). " [1]


The mention of Frisby above is significant, as we know
according to the account in 'Knights of Edward I' that Sir
Jordan Foliot of Grimston, co. Notts. and Fenwick, co. Yorks.
(d. bef 5 Mar 1235/6)

" has given to Simon de Steyngrave lands at Frisby,
Lincs., with his d. Beatrice, in marriage, 25 Apr 1295
(Inq.). " [2]

This Sir Jordan Foliot, who succeeded his father Richard
before 25 July 1206 (also the son and heir of Beatrice Bardolf
[3]) is clearly the same individual as the Jordan who 'had one
fee of Roger de Lacy (then dead) in Frisby and Hackthorne,
Lincolnshire ' [DD, cite above].

Given that this DD entry also gives us one Jordan Foliot
who (A) held three fees of the Honour of Pontefract in 1166,
and (B) had a brother Richard, I have reconstructed
the earliest [identifiable] generations of the Foliots of
Grimston, co. Notts. and Gressenhall, Norfolk as given below.

Should anyone of the list have further documentation,
insight & c. as to this pedigree, and especially as to
other individuals in DD (Willelm Foliot, and Willelm II
Foliot) and their possible placement, please advise. As
always, any related comment or criticism is welcome.

John *

________________________________


1 William Foliot
----------------------------------------
Death: bef 1166[1]

father of Jordan Foliot:
cf. DD 981 sub Jordan Foliot (cites
Red Book of the Exchequer pp. 421-24[1])

~ possibly the 'Willelm Foliot', tenant of Percy (and undertenant,
as to lands held of the Vavasour family) in Yorkshire ca.
1129/30;
'father of Hugh and Henry [Foliot] by his second wife Agnes
de Arches' [DD 984 sub Willelm Foliot, cites Pipe Roll 31
Hen I, 26-ynb[1]]

evidently d. before 1166 (his son Jordan held 3 knights' fees of
Henry de Lacy - DD 981, citing Red Book of the Exchequer pp.
421-24[1]]

~ it is also possible that his wife (the mother of his son
Richard) was related to Robert de Fenwich, with whose widow
Jordan Foliot (d. 1235) entered an agreement as to the lands
of Fenwick, co. Yorks. in 1206 [Yorkshire Feet of Fines] [5]

Children: Jordan
Henry
Richard (-<1206)


1.1 Jordan Foliot
----------------------------------------

'Jordan Foliot, brother of Henry, who held three fees of Henry
de Lacy of Pontefract in 1166;... son of William,...brother of
a Richard (EYC ii, 849).' [DD 981 sub Jordan Foliot; cites
Red Book of the Exchequer pp. 421-24[1]]

the lands held as tenant of de Lacy evidently those held by
nephew Jordan Foliot in 1225:
" Et Matildi de Lascy pro eodem Jordano [Foliot] de bosco de
Pippin. " [Paul Reed, citing Calendar of Patent Rolls 1216-1225][2]
_____________________

~ According to K.S.B. Keats-Rohan, 'Possibly distinct' from Jordan
Foliot who
"attested a charter of Countess Lucy of Chester c. 1135 with his
brothers Richard and Payn." [DD 981 sub Jordan Foliot[1], cites
Barraclough, no. 16, no. 17[3]]


1.2 Henry Foliot
----------------------------------------

brother of Jordan Foliot:
cf. DD 981 sub Jordan Foliot (cites
Red Book of the Exchequer pp. 421-24[1])

~ possibly the Henry Foliot who m. Lecia, one of the daughters of
Jordan de Brisete[4]


1.3 Richard Foliot
----------------------------------------
Death: bef 25 Jul 1206[5]

husband of Beatrice Bardolf

brother of Jordan Foliot:
cf. DD 981 sub Jordan Foliot (cites
EYC ii, 849[1])

his son succeeded to the inheritance of Fenwick, co. Yorks.
before 25 Jul 1206[5]

Spouse: Beatrice Bardolf
Death: bef 1 Jul 1225[6]
Father: Hugh Bardolf (-ca1176), of Waddington and Great Carlton, co. Lincs.
Mother: Isabel de Condet (>1136->1165)

Children: Jordan (-<1235)

1.3.1 Jordan Foliot
----------------------------------------
Death: bef 5 Mar 1235[7]

of Grimston, co. Notts, Fenwick, co. Yorks., Frisby, co. Lincs. & c.

quitclaimed certain rights as the dower of Beatrice, widow of Robert
de Fenwich, in 30 acres at Fenwick, co. Yorks. 25 July 1206:
' cclvi. York, the day of Saint James the apostle (25 July 1206).
Between Beatrice, who was the wife of Robert de Fenwich, plaintiff,
and Jordan Foliot, tenant, concerning the third part of thirty
acres of land with appurtenances in Fenwick, which she was claiming
against Jordan himself as her reasonable dower which belongs to her
from the gift of the aforesaid Robert, formerly her husband, in
Fenwick. Whereupon the plea was etc., namely that the aforesaid
Beatrice has remised etc. all right etc. in the aforementioned
third part of thirty acres of land with appurtenances to the
aforementioned Jordan and the heirs of his body forever. And for
this quitclaim etc. the aforementioned Jordan has granted and
quitclaimed the same Beatrice the moiety of the entire crop of
the aforementioned land for this present year. ' Yorkshire Feet of
Fines[5]

'In 1212 Jordan Foliot had one fee of Roger de Lacy (then dead) in
Frisby and Hackthorne, Lincolnshire (Fees, 190).'
[DD 981, sub Jordan Foliot][1]
'Jordan Foliot held the Tattershall fee in Saxilby [Lincs.] in 1212
(Fees, 190).'
[DD 984, sub Willelm II Foliot[1]]

performed homage and had livery of his purparty of the lands of uncle
Robert Bardolf, 1 Jul 1225[7]: a fine of that date records,

' D’ homag capto. } Dns Rex cep homag JORD’ FOLIOT ISOLD’ DE
} GRAY ’t RAD’ PAYNEL de portoibs suis q eos
coting de tris q fuut ROB’TI BARDULF’ avuncli sui q’s de dno R.
tenuit i cap ’t mand est Vic Kanc qd accepta ab eis sec’itate de
relevio suo dno R. reddendo q’tu p jud curie dni R. inde redde
debuint: plena eis saisina hre fac de portoibs suis ipos heditar
ctingetibs de tris pdcis i balla sua, accepta & ead sec’itate a
ROB’TO LUPO loco MATILD’ BARDULF’ mris sue q est una hedu
pdci Robti de relevio suo dno R. reddendo q’tu ad ipam ptin t
p pte sua silr eid Rob pl saisina hre fac loco mat’s sue de portoe
ipam heditar cting de tris pdcis. Portoem vo ctingente fil ’t hede
HUG’ POINZ qui similr e unus hedu ipius Robti ’t inf’ etate est
’t i custodia dni R. salvo custodiat don dns R. aliud inde pcepit.
T. R. ap Westm j. die Jul. ' Excerpta e Rotulis Finium, I:129[8]

this included Grimston, co. Notts [as indicated by holdings of Isabel de
Condet][9]

held of Maud de Lacy land(s) in the 'forest of Pippin', 1225:
" Et Matildi de Lascy pro eodem Jordano [Foliot] de bosco de Pippin. "
[Paul Reed, citing Calendar of Patent Rolls 1216-1225][2]

Sir Jordan Foliot
'has given to Simon de Steyngrave lands at Frisby, Lincs., with his
d. Beatrice, in marriage, 25 Apr 1295 (Inq.).'[10] [evidently the
inquisition of Beatrice's son and heir]

Spouse: NN

Children: Sir Richard (>1214-1299)
Beatrice


1.3.1.1 Sir Richard Foliot
----------------------------------------
Birth: aft 5 Mar 1214[7]
Death: Mar 1299[7]

knight, of Norton, Fenwick, co. York and Grimston and Wellow, Notts.

had livery of his father's lands, incl. one-fifth of a knight's fee in
Hoo, Kent on 5 March 1235/36 (when still a minor)[7]

had charters for a market and fair at Wellow, co. Notts.:
'(Charter) gr[anted] 22 Oct 1268, by K[ing] Hen[ry] III to Richard Foliot.
To be held at the manor. The roll is damaged and information is missing
(CChR, 1257–1300, p. 113). On 22 Feb 1330, the justices in eyre were
ordered to permit Margery Foliot, lady of Wellehagh, to have her Fri
market notwithstanding the eyre, as she and other lords of the town had
had from the time of the making of the charters of the king’s progenitors
(CCR, 1330–33, pp. 124, 129).'[11]

made a gift by charter (dated 1266 - 1299) to the monks of Rufford of
'1 toft in Eakring' -PRO, Nottinghamshire Archives: Savile of Rufford:
Deeds and Estate Papers - Charters, Rufford [DD/SR/208/77][12]

Spouse: Margery de Stuteville
Father: Sir William de Stuteville (-<1259), of Gressenhall and Elsing,
Norfolk and Cowesby, co. Yorks.
Mother: Margaret de Say (-<1243), heiress of Burford, co. Salop and
Richard's Castle, co. Hereford (she m. 2ndly Robert de
Mortimer)

Children: Sir Jordan (<1249-<1299)
Edmund (-<1316)
Sir William


1.3.1.1.1 Sir Jordan Foliot
----------------------------------------
Birth: bef 2 May 1249[7]
Death: bef 2 May 1299[7]
Occ: Lord Foliot

knight, of Gressenhall, Elsing, East Lexham and Weasenham, Norfolk;
Norton, Fenwick, Moseley and Cowesby, co. York, Grimston and Wellow,
Notts.

'Holds 2 knights' fees at Cowesby, Nesse, Stivelingeflete, Ripplingham,
and Brantingham, Yorks., late of Baldwin Wake, 25 Mar 1282, and overlord
of Welyngham Manor, Norf., 10 Sept 1289 (Inq.).'[10]

Summoned to Parliament from 24 June 1295 to 2 Nov 1295 by writs directed
'Jordano Foliot', held thereby to have become Lord Foliot.[7]

found following his IPM to have ' held of the late King [Edward I] in chief
one-fifth of a knight's fee in Hoo, Kent' (CP Vol. V-Foliot, p. 540n)[7]

Spouse: Margery de Neumarche[7]
Death: 18 Apr 1330[7]
Father: Sir Adam de Neumarche (->1279), of Womersly, Campsall and
Bentley, co. York
Mother: Isabel de Mowbray

Children: Sir Richard (1283-<1317), m. Joan de Braose
Joan {CONJECTURED: wife of Alfonso de Vere}


1.3.1.1.2 Edmund Foliot
----------------------------------------
Death: bef 17 Feb 1316[10]

knt., of Handsworth, co. Yorks
stated to have received manor of Rysum, co. Lincs. from his father, 1276[10]

served in the Scottish wars - with 3 horses at the castle of
Linlithgow, Nov/Dec 1302[13]

Spouse: Sarah de Furnival (?)[10]
Father: Thomas de Furnival (-1291)

Children: Richard


1.3.1.1.3 Sir William Foliot
----------------------------------------

of Tilney and Ilsington, Norfolk.

' Jordan son of Sir Richard Foliot to Sir William his brother:
Grant of his land in Tilney and Islington (Ilsington),
[in Tilney], late of Robert de Stotevill his uncle:
[Norf.] [Before 4 Edw I]' R. Bevan, citing PRO E42/236[14]


1.3.1.2 Beatrice Foliot
----------------------------------------

her father Sir Jordan Foliot
'has given to Simon de Steyngrave lands at Frisby, Lincs., with his
d. Beatrice, in marriage, 25 Apr 1295 (Inq.).'[10]

Spouse: Simon de Steyngrave[10]

Children: John (-1295)


1.3.1.2.1 John de Stonegrave
----------------------------------------
Death: 20 Apr 1295[15],[16]

of Stonegrave, co. York.[17]

Spouse: Ida Wake[17]
Father: Baldwin Wake (-<1281)
Mother: Ela de Beauchamp (-<1267)

Children: Isabel


1. "Domesday Descendants," K. S. B. Keats-Rohan, The Boydell Press,
Woodbridge, 2002, cited by Rosie Bevan, 'Re: de Stuteville' Jul 2,
2002, p. 723 (Osmund de Stuteville), full title: Domesday Descendants:
A Prosopography of Persons, Occurring in English Documents 1066-1166:
Pipe Rolls to Cartae Baronum.
2. Paul C. Reed, FASG, "Matilda de Clere, wife of John de Lacy," Feb 11,
1999, GEN-MED...@rootsweb.com, cites Calendat of Patent Rolls
1216-1225, p. 576 - Jordan Foliot and Maud de Lacy, also Dugdale,
Mon. Angl. 5:534 [Historia Laceiorum, from the account of the Abbey
of Kirkstall] re: Maud de Lacy.
3. "The Charters of the Anglo-Norman Earls of Chester, c. 1071-1237,"
Geoffrey Barraclough, The Record Society of Lancashire and Cheshire,
1988, cites charters in the Public Record Office, the Bodleian Library
and elsewhere.
4. John P. Ravilious, "Tying Up some Loose Foliots...," December 16, 2002,
GEN-MED...@rootsweb.com, cites KSB Rohan, "Domesday Descendants:
Some Corrigenda", as to Jordan de Brisete (d. ca. 1150) and his family,
URL www.linacre.ox.ac.uk/research/prosop/DescendantsCorrigenda.doc
5. "Yorkshire Feet of Fines 1206," trans. by Virginia Murphy, Latin text
from Pedes Finium Ebor. Regnante Johanne, a.d. mcxcix-a.d. mccxiv,
published for the Surtees Society, vol. 94, 1987, pp. 101-109.,
http://bob-boynton.hypermart.net/people/boyntontriangle/walterwitness/
feetfines.html.
6. John P. Ravilious, "Re: DD Correction: the Bardolfs of Ilketshall,
Suffolk, Waddington, Lincs. & c.," January 19, 2003, email,
the...@aol.com (paper copy: library of John Ravilious, cites Excerpta
e Rotulis Finium, I:129, also Complete Peerage (Grey; Poyntz; Bardolf);
contributions by Paul Reed, FASG (re: Farrer, Honors and Knights Fees,
ii:17 and others), Todd Farmerie, Cris Nash and Roz Griston.
7. "The Complete Peerage," G. E. Cokayne, 1910 -
The Complete Peerage of England Scotland Ireland Great Britain and the
United Kingdom.
8. "Excerpta ex Rotulis Finium," Charles Roberts, The Commissioners of the
Public Records of the Kingdom, Vol I (1216-1246), 1835, full title:
Excerpta e Rotulis Finium in Turri Londinensi asservatis, Henrico Tertio
Rege, A.D. 1216-1272.
9. "Ancestral Roots of Certain American Colonists," Frederick L. Weis
(add/corr, Walter L Sheppard Jr.), Genealogical Pub. Co., Baltimore, MD,
connection of Isabel de Condet and Hugh Bardolf, as cited by E. Mann,
Line 132D-27,-28 in AR7, also, Descendants of Henry I of Germany
(10/30/98), Line 157 (Gerberga of Burgundy to Emperor Henry III).
10. "Knights of Edward I," Rev. Charles Moor, D.D., F.S.A., Pubs. of the
Harleian Society, 1929-1930, 3 Vols. (Vols. 80-83 in series).
11. "Gazetteer of Markets and Fairs to 1516," www.histparl.ac.uk/cmh/gaz/
12. "Public Record Office Archives," http://www.a2a.pro.gov.uk/
Hastings: from Norfolk Record Office: Hastings Family of Gressenhall,
charters and other documents re: Hastings of Elsing, from FILE -
Charter - Grant - ref. MR 72 241 x 3, also, Norfolk Record Office:
Collecton of Manorial Documents relating to Gressenhall and Hunstanton,
(includes COLLECTION of MANORIAL DOCUMENTS relating to GRESSENHALL and
HUNSTANTON).
13. Warfare Between England and Scotland, 1299 - 1301, according to
Documents
from the English Government, www.deremilitari.org/1299.htm
citing E 101/17/29, Names of men at arms staying in the garrisons of
Scottish castles, Nov/Dec 1302.
14. Rosie Bevan, "Ancestry of Margery de Stuteville, wife of Sir Richard
Foliot," August 31, 2002, paper copy: library of John P. Ravilious,
citations from Rosie Bevan : rbe...@paradise.net.nz, cites Clay, Early
Yorkshire Charters, Sanders, English Baronies; K. Keats-Rohan, Domesday
Descendants.
15. "English Baronies: A Study of Their Origin and Descent, 1086-1327," I. J.
Sanders, Oxford: Clarendon Press, 1960.
16. Douglas Richardson, "Plantagenet," Jan 20, 2003, email
royala...@msn.com
17. Douglas Richardson, "Wake," September 12, 2002, paper copy: library
of John Ravilious, text, line of descent from Ela de Beauchamp,
daughter of William de Beauchamp and Ida Longespee, and wife of Baldwin
Wake, Knt. of Liddel, Cumberland.


________________________________


NOTES to post:

[1] Domesday Descendants, p. 981.

[2] Knights of Edward I, sub Sir Jordan Foliot. The IPM date
(1295) was that of either Beatrice Foliot or her son and
heir, John de Stonegrave (d. April 1295).

[3] See prior SGM thread, <Re: DD Correction: the Bardolfs of
Ilketshall, Suffolk, Waddington, Lincs. & c.> [Jan 2003].

* Subtitle: Pasting Down some Loose Foliots...
thread by John Ravilious;
pasting by Nat Taylor

John Ravilious

unread,
Oct 1, 2003, 7:34:02 AM10/1/03
to
Wednesday, 1 October, 2003


Dear Rosie, Chris, et al.,

In further reviewing my database and notes concerning the
Foliots, I noted the following entry for one William Foliot, son
of Agnes de Arches:

'Willelmi Foliot', identified as son of Agnes de
Arches in confirmation by William, archbishop of
York,
' dated 1143-1154, of a gift made by [Agnes de Arches ]
to Nunkeeling by
" petitione Agnetis matris Petri de Falcamberga
et filiorum suorum Willelmi et Hugonis Foliot" [1]


In just looking back at DD p. 984, KSB K-R wrote (under
"Willelm Foliot"),

" Occurs in the Yorkshire sections of the 1129/30
Pipe Roll. A Percy tenant, and, in respect of
land held under the Vavassors, undertenant. Father
of Hugh and Henry by his second wife Agnes de
Arches. " [2]


The EYC entry I show appears (originally provided as
shown by Rosie Bevan) to have been missed by KSB K-R
in regards to this DD entry, although, on p. 981 under "Hugo
Foliot" reference is made to EYC (although not the same
charter: the cite says "Clay, EYC (1955), XI, no. 109".)

The chronology of William Foliot of the above
confirmation (ca. 1143-54) also coincides with that of
William Foliot, father of Jordan Foliot (which William
evidently d. before 1166). A possible revised pedigree
(conjectured relationships shown as broken line _ _ _ _):


3) William = Agnes de = 2) Robert de = 1) Herbert
Foliot I Arches I Fauconberg de St.
d. aft 1129/30 I I Quintin
_ _ _ _I________ I____________________
I I I
William Hugh Piers de
Foliot Foliot Fauconberg
fl. 1143/54 of Rise and Carfoss
d. bef 1166 I
________I_____________ _ _ _ _ _ _ I
I I I I
Jordan Henry Richard Walter de
Foliot Foliot Foliot Fauconberg
'held three fees d. bef 25 I
of Henry de Lacy Jul 1206 I
of Pontefract = Beatrice I
in 1166 ' [DD] Bardolf I
_________________I I
I I
Sir Jordan Foliot Sir Piers de
d. bef 5 Mar 1235/6 Fauconberg
'held one fee of Roger de = Margaret de
Lacy (1212) ' Montfichet
I I
I I
I I
Sir Richard Foliot Sir Walter de
of Grimston & c. Fauconberg, Lord
d. Mar 1299 Fauconberg; d. 2 Nov 1304

This would clearly extend the ancestry of the Foliots of
Grimston, Notts. & c., and (through the de Arches connection)
'create' kinships with the Lords Fauconberg, St. Quintin
(possibly the Harpham family), de Brus of Skelton and the
Percy families, of Alnwick/Topcliffe and Kildale.

Should anyone have additional documentation (contrary or
contributory), comment or criticism, it would be welcome.

Good luck, and good hunting.

John


NOTES

[1] Rosie Bevan, <Agnes de Arches>, SGM, 11 March, 2002
(cites Farrer, EYC v.3 p.53-54).

[2] K.S.B. Keats-Rohan, Domesday Descendants, p. 984
(cites Dugdale, Monasticon Anglicanum, Iv, pp. 120-21,
nos II-III; Pipe Roll 31 henry I, 26-ynb)

The...@aol.com wrote in message news:<1ce.11bd96...@aol.com>...


> Tuesday, 30 September, 2003
>
>
> Hello All,
>
> As noted in several prior SGM threads (Loose Foliots &
> others), the Foliot family(ies) provide ponderous placement
> problems. There are 4 pages of Foliots in Domesday Descendants
> (981-984), many of whom have been previously placed in existing
> pedigrees (Hemyock/North Tawton, Devon; Chipping Warden,
> Northants.; and Norton/Gressenhall) but some of which have not.
>
> One particular entry in DD provides additional evidence for
> placing the individual(s) identified therein:
>
> " Foliot, Jordan
> Attested a charter of Countess Lucy of Chester c.
> 1135 with his brothers Richard and Payn. Possibly
> distinct from the Jordan Foliot, brother of Henry,
> who held three fees of Henry de Lacy of Pontefract
> in 1166; this Jordan, son of William, was also
> brother of a Richard (EYC ii, 849). In 1212 Jordan
> Foliot had one fee of Roger de Lacy (then dead)
> in Frisby and Hackthorne, Lincolnshire (Fees, 190). " [1]
>

<<<<<<<<< SNIP >>>>>>>>>>>>

Steve Barnhoorn

unread,
Dec 17, 2004, 1:56:06 PM12/17/04
to
Newsgroup:


Stumbled across this item in search of details on Hilary Folet, wife
of Richard Muscegros (d. ca. 1200), and grandmother of Robert
Muscegros (d. 1254):

Rotuli Chartarum in Turri Londinensi asservati, ed. Thomas Duffus
Hardy (London: Printed by G. Eyre and A. Spottiswoode, 1837), 51b,
Memb. 8: called "Ric de Muzegros fil Hilari filie Willi Folet," as of
xxvj April, Anno 1 John.

<<<<<Is this the right line? Where would Hilary Folet daughter of
William Folet fit into this picture?>>>>

Thanks!

Steve Barnhoorn

Reply all
Reply to author
Forward
0 new messages