Swynford Family

[Leo van de Pas]

Catherine Roet married Sir Hugh Swynford and, I believe, had a son
Thomas. Then she became the mistress of John of Gaunt and produced
four more children.

Does anyone know what happened to Thomas Swynford? Did he become
Sir Thomas Swynford, of Kettlethorpe, married and had children?

Thomas Pauncefote, of Hasfield, born 1410, died 1475
he married (1) Agatha Wogan (2) Margaret Swynford, daughter of
Sir Thomas Swynford, of Kettlethorpe, (3) Eleanor Bruges.

Is this Margaret Swynford's father the son of Sir Hugh Swynford
and Catherine Roet?

Many thanks,
Leo van de Pas

[Don Stone]

Leo van de Pas wrote:
>
> Catherine Roet married Sir Hugh Swynford and, I believe, had a son
> Thomas. Then she became the mistress of John of Gaunt and produced
> four more children.
>
> Does anyone know what happened to Thomas Swynford? Did he become
> Sir Thomas Swynford, of Kettlethorpe, married and had children?
>
> Thomas Pauncefote, of Hasfield, born 1410, died 1475
> he married (1) Agatha Wogan (2) Margaret Swynford, daughter of
> Sir Thomas Swynford, of Kettlethorpe, (3) Eleanor Bruges.

Leo:

Here is the pedigree connecting Sir Hugh Swynford and Margaret Swynford,
wife of Thomas Paunsfote, from "The Manor and Rectory of Kettlethorpe"
by R. E. G. Cole, in _Associated Architectural Societies' Reports and
Papers_, vol. 31, pt. 1 (1911):

1. Hugh de Swynford, knt., of Coleby and Kettlethorpe, aged 28 in 1361;
d. abroad, 1371; m. Katherine Roelt. Their son

2. Thomas Swynford, knt., aged 4 in 1372; Sheriff of Lincs, 1402; d.
1432; m. (1st) Joan Crophill. Their son

3. Thomas Swynford, knt., aged 26 in 1432; d. bef. 1440; m. bef 1428,
Elizabeth, dau. of Sir Wm. Beauchamp of Powick. Their son

4. Thomas Swynford, knt.; b. 1435; of Hanworth, co. Mid., when he
released Kettlethorpe to his father's half-brother William Swynford in
1465. He had two children, Thomas Swynford, son and heir, who d. an
unmarried minor in 1498, and Margaret Swynford, her brother's heir, who
m. Thomas Paunsfote.

I note that if Sir Thomas Pauncefote was born in 1410, he was quite a
lot older than Margaret Swynford.

-- Don Stone

[Don Stone]

This is a follow-up on my suspicions of the generation gap between
Thomas Pauncefote and Margaret Swynford, ancestors (according to Leo van
de Pas) of Lady Diana and perhaps Prince Charles. I gave the following
data in my original post (copied from R. E. G. Cole's article on
Kettlethorpe):

> 3. Thomas Swynford, knt., aged 26 in 1432; d. bef. 1440; m. bef 1428,
> Elizabeth, dau. of Sir Wm. Beauchamp of Powick. Their son
>
> 4. Thomas Swynford, knt.; b. 1435; of Hanworth, co. Mid., when he
> released Kettlethorpe to his father's half-brother William Swynford in
> 1465. He had two children, Thomas Swynford, son and heir, who d. an
> unmarried minor in 1498, and Margaret Swynford, her brother's heir,
> who m. Thomas Paunsfote.

I now think that Cole probably put Margaret one generation too late, and
that she was the daughter of Thomas (3) above rather than Thomas (4).

Thomas (3) Swynford's half-brother William married Beatrice, who
survived her first husband and later married Richard Wodroff; she died
in 1516, and her IPM is the basis for Cole's placement of Margaret
Swynford in the family tree. Quoting from Cole (p. 65): [Beatrice] died
7th February, 1516, when the inquisition found that she held the manor
and advowson of Kettlethorpe, held of the Bishop of Lincoln, settled on
her for life, with remainder to Thomas Swynford and his heirs by fine,
dated 3rd November, 1468, and that the person then entitled in remainder
was Joan, wife of George Beaumont, esq., niece of Thomas Swynford the
son, viz., daughter of his sister Margaret, late wife of Thomas
Paunsfote. The next heir of her blood was Thomas Wodroff, aged 30,
probably her son by her second marriage. [The reference is IPM, 8 Hen.
VIII.]

The first Thomas Swynford mentioned in this IPM is Thomas (4). The
inquisition would read more naturally if the second mention of Thomas
Swynford was referring to the same person. However, the second mention
is of Thomas Swynford "the son," and Cole interpreted "the son" as
"junior," referring to the Thomas who died an unmarried minor in 1498.
I suspect that "the son" is either a transcription error or else
spurious in the original, and that Margaret Swynford was a sister rather
than a daughter of Thomas (4). Margaret's daughters Anne and Joan were
born about 1469 and 1471, respectively (since aged 40 and 38 in 1509),
so if Margaret were the daughter of Thomas (4, born about 1435), she
would have had to been born around 1452 and thus would have been
probably 25 or more years older than her purported brother Thomas who
died an unmarried minor in 1498. This seems rather improbable. If, on
the other hand, Margaret was the daughter of Thomas (3) and the sister
of Thomas (4), then she would have been born probably in the late 1430's
(since Thomas (3) died bef. 1440), and her daughters would have been
born when she around 30 or slightly older, which is relatively
plausible.

-- Don Stone

[Benjamin Hertzel]

Hello,

> > Catherine Roet married Sir Hugh Swynford and, I believe, had a son
> > Thomas. Then she became the mistress of John of Gaunt and produced
> > four more children.
> >
> > Does anyone know what happened to Thomas Swynford? Did he become
> > Sir Thomas Swynford, of Kettlethorpe, married and had children?

I have two unconnected Swynfords - can anyone help? They are:

Thomas Swynford, who married Joan D'evereux (daughter of Walter D'evereux
and Agnes Crophull - dates unknown, but Joan's brother Walter's dates
are ca. 1387 - 1420), and

Anna Swynford, daughter of William Swynford. Anna married Walter Tyrell,
and was the mother of Thomas Tyrell (born ca. 1400). Walter Tyrell was
the son of Sir James Tyrell and Margaret de Heron (...another Heron
without an ancestry).

Thank you.

Benjamin

[Don Stone]

Benjamin Hertzel wrote:
>
> I have two unconnected Swynfords - can anyone help? They are:
>
> Thomas Swynford, who married Joan D'evereux (daughter of Walter D'evereux
> and Agnes Crophull - dates unknown, but Joan's brother Walter's dates
> are ca. 1387 - 1420)

R. E. G. Cole's article "The Manor and Rectory of Kettlethorpe," which I
have cited earlier, gives Joan Crophill, liv. 1403, as the first wife of
Thomas Swynford, b. ca. 1368, d. 1432. On 14th Oct. 1399, Henry IV
confirmed to Thomas Swynford, chivaler, and Joan Crophill, his wife, a
grant of 100 marks yearly for their lives, made to them originally by
Richard II in 1393 (Pat. Rolls, 1 Hen IV, p. 295). There is no mention
of D'evereux in the article.

> and
> Anna Swynford, daughter of William Swynford. Anna married Walter Tyrell,
> and was the mother of Thomas Tyrell (born ca. 1400). Walter Tyrell was
> the son of Sir James Tyrell and Margaret de Heron (...another Heron
> without an ancestry).

There is no mention of Tyrell in Cole's Kettlethorpe article.

-- Don Stone