President-Elect Donald J. Trump's Alleged Descents From Edward III

[D. Spencer Hines]

Shaky...

...To say the least.

This is one of his 12 alleged descents from Edward III I've unearthed.

To Be Crystal-Clear -- as Richard Nixon would say...

Certainly not alleged by DJT...

...Who allegedly gives a rat's tail.

Scots-German -- an interesting combination.

There has been a deleterious, deadly dearth of reporting on that.

Comments?

DSH
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

President-Elect of the United States Donald John Trump is the 19th
great-grandson of EDWARD III King of England

Common Ancestor

* EDWARD III King of England
* Philippa de Hainault
|
|
* John of Gaunt 1st Duke of Lancaster
Katherine Roet
|
|
* John Beaufort 1st Marquess of Somerset and Dorset
Lady Margaret de Holland Duchess of Clare
|
|
Sir James Stewart of Lorn
* Joan Beaufort Queen of Scots
|
|
* John Stewart 1st Earl of Atholl
Eleanor Sinclair
|
|
John Stewart 3rd Earl of Lennox
* Lady Elizabeth Stewart of Atholl, Countess of Lennox
|
|
John Gordon 11th Earl of Sutherland
* Helen Stewart Countess of Sutherland
|
|
* Alexander Gordon 12th Earl of Sutherland
Lady Jean Gordon
|
|
Hugh MacKay of Far Tongue and Strathnaver
* Lady Jane Gordon
|
|
* Donald MacKay 1st Lord Reay, fiar of Strathnaver
Elizabeth Thomson
|
|
The Reverend Hugh Munro Minister of Durness
* Anna MacKay
|
|
Robert MacKay of Achness
* Isabella Munro
|
|
* Alexander MacKay
Margaret Fearn
|
|
* Robert MacKay tacksman of Halmdary
|
|
* Angus MacKay tenant in Kinlochbea
|
|
Angus MacLeod of Carnachy
* Mary MacKay
|
|
* Donald MacLeod of Whitefield, near Thurso
Margaret Cameron
|
|
William MacLeod of Skerray
* Christian MacLeod
|
|
* Alexander MacLeod
Ann Macleod
|
|
* Malcolm MacLeod
Mary Smith
|
|
Frederick Christ Trump Sr.
* Mary Anne MacLeod
|
|
* President of the United States Donald John Trump

DSH
---------------------------------------------------------

"Nothing in all the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and
conscientious stupidity."

Martin Luther King, Jr.
Strength to Love - Jan 1963

[deca...@aol.com]

Secretary Hillary Rodham Clinton is the 19th great-granddaughter of EDWARD III, King of England. She is related to John of Gaunt and his mistress-turned-wife Katherine Swynford through her father's side. Secretary Hillary Rodham Clinton is the direct descendant of 14th century 1st Duke of Lancaster John of Gaunt and his third wife Katherine Swynford.

Perhaps Secretary Clinton's royal pedigree is more believable than President-elect Donald J. Trump's 12 alleged descents from EDWARD III, King of England. At least those who consider the popular vote more important would think so!

Common Ancestor

EDWARD III, King of England
Philippa de Hainault
|
|
John of Gaunt, 1st Duke of Lancaster
|
|
Joan Beaufort, Countess of Westmorland
|
|
Eleanor Percy, Countess of Northumberland
|
|
Henry Percy, 3rd Earl of Northumberland
|
|
Margaret Gascoigne
|
|
Margaret Ogle
|
|
Dorothy Ogle, Lady Grey
|
|
Isabel Grey
|
|
Margaret Rodham (de Gray)
|
|
John Roddam
|
|
John Roddam
|
|
John Rodham
|
|
John Rodham
|
|
Hugh Roddham
|
|
Joseph Rodham
|
|
Jonathan Roddham
|
|
Joseph Rodham
|
|
Jonathan Rodham
|
|
Hugh Simpson Rodham
|
|
Hugh Ellsworth Rodham
|
|
Secretary Hillary Rodham Clinton

[John Higgins]

This piece of genealogical creativity has been floating around here for some years. The connections of the various Rodham generations can't be substantiated. Check the archives of the group - preferably BEFORE you post stuff like this.

The same goes for the Trump line that the local troll keeps posting...

[Paulo Canedo]

The Trump line is very likely there is only one uncertainty if you check the archives.

[Brad Verity]

I know the line is valid down to this point, with James IV of Scotland the most recent monarch in the ancestry of the 1st Lord Reay.

I don't yet have the Reay article from the 2003 edition of Burke's Peerage, so I haven't traced this line any further down. Has anyone been able to confirm each of the subsequent ten generations, from Anna MacKay, wife of Rev. Hugh Munro, to Malcolm MacLeod, maternal grandfather of Donald Trump?

> |
> |
> The Reverend Hugh Munro Minister of Durness
> * Anna MacKay
> |
> |
> Robert MacKay of Achness
> * Isabella Munro
> |
> |
> * Alexander MacKay
> Margaret Fearn
> |
> |
> * Robert MacKay tacksman of Halmdary
> |
> |
> * Angus MacKay tenant in Kinlochbea
> |
> |
> Angus MacLeod of Carnachy
> * Mary MacKay
> |
> |
> * Donald MacLeod of Whitefield, near Thurso
> Margaret Cameron
> |
> |
> William MacLeod of Skerray
> * Christian MacLeod
> |
> |
> * Alexander MacLeod
> Ann Macleod
> |
> |
> * Malcolm MacLeod
> Mary Smith
> |
> |
> Frederick Christ Trump Sr.
> * Mary Anne MacLeod

Good God! Was the middle name of Donald Trump's father actually 'Christ'? As in Jesus?

> |
> |
> * President of the United States Donald John Trump

Haven't been able to get my head round this yet, but I hope to remain as blissfully ignorant of his administration as possible. Not having the news on since Election Night has helped.

> "Nothing in all the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and
> conscientious stupidity."
> Martin Luther King, Jr.
> Strength to Love - Jan 1963

That may be so, though I'd argue Dr. Martin Luther King never had to deal with a Trump Presidency. I'm sticking to my policy of blissful ignorance for the time being.

Cheers, ------Brad

[P J Evans]

I have two instances of "Christ" as a given name - one from Norway, and one from Denmark. It's certainly much less common than "Christopher" or "Christian".

[D. Spencer Hines]

Vide infra pro interscriptibus.

Thanks, Brad.

DSH

"Nothing in all the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and
conscientious stupidity."

Martin Luther King, Jr.
Strength to Love - Jan 1963

"Brad Verity" wrote in message
news:102cd3c9-0fad-4579...@googlegroups.com...

***Provocative & Enticing.

I don't yet have the Reay article from the 2003 edition of Burke's Peerage,
so I haven't traced this line any further down. Has anyone been able to
confirm each of the subsequent ten generations, from Anna MacKay, wife of
Rev. Hugh Munro, to Malcolm MacLeod, maternal grandfather of Donald Trump?

***Not that I've seen. Yes, indeed. This is where our focus needs to be.

> |
> |
> The Reverend Hugh Munro Minister of Durness
> * Anna MacKay
> |
> |
> Robert MacKay of Achness
> * Isabella Munro
> |
> |
> * Alexander MacKay
> Margaret Fearn
> |
> |
> * Robert MacKay tacksman of Halmdary
> |
> |
> * Angus MacKay tenant in Kinlochbea
> |
> |
> Angus MacLeod of Carnachy
> * Mary MacKay
> |
> |
> * Donald MacLeod of Whitefield, near Thurso
> Margaret Cameron
> |
> |
> William MacLeod of Skerray
> * Christian MacLeod
> |
> |
> * Alexander MacLeod
> Ann Macleod
> |
> |
> * Malcolm MacLeod
> Mary Smith
> |
> |
> Frederick Christ Trump Sr.
> * Mary Anne MacLeod

Good God! Was the middle name of Donald Trump's father actually 'Christ'? As
in Jesus?

***Yes, indeed. If a novelist wrote this, people at his publisher would
laugh.

"Born in the Bronx, New York City,[3] Trump was one of three children of
German emigrants Elizabeth (née Christ) and Frederick Trump, along with his
brother John and sister Elizabeth Trump Walters (1904-1961). His father
Frederick Trump, originally named Friedrich Trump, had immigrated to New
York City in 1885 from the small German town of Kallstadt, Palatinate (by
then part of the Kingdom of Bavaria), where he returned to marry the former
neighbor's daughter Elisabeth Christ in 1902.[4] Friedrich Trump's name was
recorded incorrectly as Trumpf when he migrated to the USA.[5] The Boston
Globe placed a name change, from the ancestral Drumpf, sometime during the
Thirty Years' War (1618-48).[6]"

Although both of Trump's parents were born in Germany, Trump told friends
and acquaintances for decades after World War II that the family was of
Swedish origin. According to his nephew John Walter, "He had a lot of Jewish
tenants and it wasn't a good thing to be German in those days."[7]"

"Trump's father died when he was 13;[7] shortly after, he started his first
job as a "horse's helper", carrying lumber to construction sites after
school.[8]" [Wikipedia]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fred_Trump

***So, DJT's grandmother was "mother of Christ" and his father was a
"horse's helper" -- wrap your mind around that.

|
> * President of the United States Donald John Trump

Haven't been able to get my head round this yet, but I hope to remain as
blissfully ignorant of his administration as possible. Not having the news
on since Election Night has helped.

> "Nothing in all the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and
> conscientious stupidity."
> Martin Luther King, Jr.
> Strength to Love - Jan 1963

That may be so, though I'd argue Dr. Martin Luther King never had to deal
with a Trump Presidency. I'm sticking to my policy of blissful ignorance for
the time being.

Cheers, ------Brad

***Cheers, You're missing a fascinating scenario unfold, Brad. The News is
a smorgasbord each day. ---- Spencer

[John Higgins]

On Monday, January 2, 2017 at 10:03:59 AM UTC-8, Brad Verity wrote:

> Cheers, ------Brad

The 2003 edition of BP does not give the 1st Lord Reay a daughter Anna, whether married to Hugh Munro, minister of Durness, or anyone else. The same is true for the account of Reay in SP.

More genealogical creativity by someone looking for a royal descent. It would be fitting to want to attribute this piece of fakery to the incoming President, as it certainly would be in line with many of his other actions. But, alas, the genealogical grafting that created this supposed descent probably took place long before The Donald.

[D. Spencer Hines]

Indeed.

Higgins roots up a truffle I was well aware of.

DSH

"Nothing in all the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and
conscientious stupidity."

Martin Luther King, Jr.
Strength to Love - Jan 1963

"John Higgins" wrote in message
news:02dd60ac-5ab6-444d...@googlegroups.com...

The 2003 edition of BP does not give the 1st Lord Reay a daughter Anna,
whether married to Hugh Munro, minister of Durness, or anyone else. The
same is true for the account of Reay in SP.

More genealogical creativity by someone looking for a royal descent. ...the

[D. Spencer Hines]

Then there is this:

TRUMP

Etymology:
The surname has two sources.[1]
English (Devon): an occupational name for a trumpeter, from Middle English
trumpe ? ("trumpet").
German (Bavaria): an occupational name for a drummer, from Middle High
German trumbe ? ("drum") through German Trump.

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Trump

That just has to make it into "Trump" -- The Film.

Life Imitates Art.

And...

Language Is Destiny.

DSH
-----------------------------------------------------

[D. Spencer Hines]

"All good things to those who wait." ---- Dr. Hannibal Lecter [Anthony
Hopkins] to Agent Clarice Starling [Jodie Foster] (Yale '84) in "The
Silence of the Lambs" [1991]

[Paulo Canedo]

There is evidence that Anna was a daughter of Donald MacKay. A document of
I Captain Hugh Mconal Lawfull son to umq Alexr Mcdonal of pabellseary binds
and oblidges me and my heirs to procure from Mistris Anna Macky my mother
and from Mr Hugh Munro minister of Durness her husband a full and ample
disposition and discharge to Sir Donal Mconal of Slait or his heirs of all
they can ask or crave of him after the term of Whitsunday next to come
eightie six years either upon the account of the sd mistris Anna Mckys
matrimoniall contract or any other transaction or agreement made betwixt the
Late Lord Reay her brother (with her consent) and Sir James Mackdonald of
Slait, but still w'out prejudice of qt is due to her be the sd Sir Donal
preceeding the forsd term. And in case I the sd Captain Hugh fail in
procuring the forsd disposition & discharge betwixt the dait hierof and the
term of Mertimess next to come eightie six years. Then and in yt case I bind
and oblidge me and my heirs not only to give up to the sd Sr Donal or his
heirs an contract of Wodsett granted be him to me of the Lands of Dustill
more, but Likewayes to renounce the sds Lands in favours of the sd Sr Donal
or his forsds, and also to be bound to pay to the sd Sir Donal or his forsds
the usuall rent of the sds Lands at the term of mertimess abovmention'd, and
ilk year thereafter during my stay there, and yt allenerly in case of
failing in the fullfilling of the premises. And the sd Capt Hugh binds and
oblidges me and my forsds to give up to the sd Sir Donal or his heirs an
bond of five thousand merks granted be him to me at Edr the day of years.
And farder I bind & oblidge me & my forsds to renew this my obligation to
the sd Sir Donal or his heirs ay and while they find themselves sufficiently
secured in witness qrof I have subscribed thir prit at Armidell the
thirtieth day of March on thusand six hundred & eightie six years, before
these wittnesses Donald Mconal off Castletown and Mr Martin Martin governour
to the Laird of Mcdonal younger H. Mconal

[John Higgins]

What is the source of this document? Citation?

[D. Spencer Hines]

Spot On

DSH

"Nothing in all the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and
conscientious stupidity."

Martin Luther King, Jr.
Strength to Love - Jan 1963

"John Higgins" wrote in message

news:83d21cb3-7b45-4510...@googlegroups.com...

[D. Spencer Hines]

There are other alleged descents of President-Elect Trump from Edward III.

Here is one of them:

DSH
------------------------------------------------------------------------

EDWARD III King of England is the 20th great-grandfather of President-Elect

of the United States Donald John Trump

Common Ancestor

* EDWARD III King of England
* Philippa de Hainault
|
|
* John of Gaunt 1st Duke of Lancaster
Katherine Roet
|
|
* John Beaufort 1st Marquess of Somerset and Dorset
Lady Margaret de Holland Duchess of Clare
|
|
Sir James Stewart of Lorn
* Joan Beaufort Queen of Scots
|
|
* John Stewart 1st Earl of Atholl
Eleanor Sinclair
|
|

* John Stewart 2nd Earl of Atholl
Lady Janet Campbell
|
|
* John Stewart 3rd Earl of Atholl
Grizel Rattray
|
|
* John Stewart 4th Earl of Atholl
Lady Elizabeth Gordon
|
|
Hugh Fraser 5th Lord Lovat
* Lady Elizabeth Stewart
|
|
James Cumming The Younger of Altyre
* Mary Fraser
|
|
The Reverend Alexander Munro Minister of Durness
* Janet Cumming of Bunchew
|
|
* The Reverend Hugh Munro Minister of Durness

Anna MacKay
|
|
Robert MacKay of Achness
* Isabella Munro
|
|
* Alexander MacKay
Margaret Fearn
|
|
* Robert MacKay tacksman of Halmdary
|
|
* Angus MacKay tenant in Kinlochbea
|
|
Angus MacLeod of Carnachy
* Mary MacKay
|
|
* Donald MacLeod of Whitefield, near Thurso
Margaret Cameron
|
|
William MacLeod of Skerray
* Christian MacLeod
|
|
* Alexander MacLeod
Ann Macleod
|
|
* Malcolm MacLeod
Mary Smith
|
|
Frederick Christ Trump Sr.
* Mary Anne MacLeod
|
|

* President-Elect of the United States Donald John Trump
------------------------------------------------------

[D. Spencer Hines]

"Copy of Deed from the Macdonald Charter Chest referred to by Mr G. M.
Fraser, Portree.

I ***Captain Hugh Mconal*** Lawfull son to umq Alexr Mcdonal of pabellseary
binds and oblidges me and my heirs to procure from Mistris ***Anna Macky***

my mother and from Mr Hugh Munro minister of Durness her husband a full and
ample disposition and discharge to Sir Donal Mconal of Slait or his heirs of
all they can ask or crave of him after the term of Whitsunday next to come
eightie six years either upon the account of the sd mistris Anna Mckys
matrimoniall contract or any other transaction or agreement made betwixt the
Late Lord Reay her brother (with her consent) and Sir James Mackdonald of
Slait, but still w'out prejudice of qt is due to her be the sd Sir Donal
preceeding the forsd term. And in case I the sd Captain Hugh fail in
procuring the forsd disposition & discharge betwixt the dait hierof and the
term of Mertimess next to come eightie six years. Then and in yt case I bind
and oblidge me and my heirs not only to give up to the sd Sr Donal or his
heirs an contract of Wodsett granted be him to me of the Lands of Dustill
more, but Likewayes to renounce the sds Lands in favours of the sd Sr Donal
or his forsds, and also to be bound to pay to the sd Sir Donal or his forsds
the usuall rent of the sds Lands at the term of mertimess abovmention'd, and
ilk year thereafter during my stay there, and yt allenerly in case of
failing in the fullfilling of the premises. And the sd Capt Hugh binds and
oblidges me and my forsds to give up to the sd Sir Donal or his heirs an
bond of five thousand merks granted be him to me at Edr the day of years.
And farder I bind & oblidge me & my forsds to renew this my obligation to
the sd Sir Donal or his heirs ay and while they find themselves sufficiently
secured in witness qrof I have subscribed thir prit at Armidell the
thirtieth day of March on thusand six hundred & eightie six years, before
these wittnesses Donald Mconal off Castletown and Mr Martin Martin governour

to the Laird of Mcdonal younger H. Mconal."

Donald Mcdonald Witness
----------------------------------------------------------

Captain Hugh Macdonald of Paiblisgearry is allegedly the son of Anna
[MacKay] Macdonald [and her first husband, Alexander MacDonald of
Paiblisgearry].

Further:

Ravin Maven posted this in May 2016:
--------------------------------------------------------------------

GEN-MEDIEVAL > 2016-05 > 1464109871
From: ravinma...@yahoo.com
Subject: Re: Hillary Clinton & Donald Trump
Date: Tue, 24 May 2016 10:11:11 -0700 (PDT)
References: <nht6np$8t5$1...@dont-email.me>
<nhvdos$k70$1...@dont-email.me><nhvg6g$tu1$1...@dont-email.me>
In-Reply-To: <nhvg6g$tu1$1...@dont-email.me>

Details about Anne/ Anna Mackay's first husband, Alexander MacDonald. He
apparently died quite young (at least by 1657).

5. Alexander [MacDonald] of Paiblisgearry, in North Uist. In 1653 he married
Anne Mackay, sister of John, Lord Reay, and by her had issue -

(a) Captain Hugh Macdonald, who succeeded.

(b) Barbara, who married Lachlau Maclean of Torloisk.

Alexander died in or before 1657, as his wife appears on record as a widow
in the course of that year. Hence in Sir James Macdonald's Deed of Entail,
in 1658, his name dues not appear along with the Baronet's other brothers.

Captain Hugh Macdonald of Paiblisgearry succeeded his father. He also
appears on record as of Duistill, in Sleat. He was brought up evidently
under the Reay influence, which was anti-Jacobite, and favourable to the
Orange movement. He held the rank of Captain in the regiment of General
Mackay, his relative, and had the freedom of Montrose conferred on him in
1692.
Much of his military life was passed in Flanders, where he fought in the
army of the States General in the war with France. He died before 1721, when
he was succeeded by his son, John Macdonald of Paiblisgearry, who appears
that year in an enumeration of the gentlemen of North Uist. We have no
information as to the date of his death, but with him the descendants of
Alexander of Paiblisgearry terminated in the male line.

http://www.ebooksread.com/authors-eng/angus-macdonald/the-clan-donald-volume-3-dca/page-34-the-clan-donald-volume-3-dca.shtml
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

DSH

[D. Spencer Hines]

For what it's worth.

Wikipedia *does* show an ANN daughter of Donald Mackay, 1st Lord Reay and
his alleged second wife, Elizabeth Thompson.

This ANN is portrayed as marrying "Alexander MacDonald, brother of Sir James
MacDonald, chief of the Clan Macdonald of Sleat" -- as did our alleged ANNA.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donald_Mackay,_1st_Lord_Reay

Perhaps someone is jumping prematurely to conclusions.
--------------------

Wiki sources appear to be as stated in the link provided supra.

DSH
---------------------------------------------------------------------

"Nothing in all the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and
conscientious stupidity."

Martin Luther King, Jr.
Strength to Love - Jan 1963

"John Higgins" wrote in message

news:02dd60ac-5ab6-444d...@googlegroups.com...

[D. Spencer Hines]

Of COURSE!

DSH
--------------------------------------

"Nothing in all the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and
conscientious stupidity."

Martin Luther King, Jr.
Strength to Love - Jan 1963

wrote in message
news:e3ddf338-c1e1-4ed8...@googlegroups.com...

"Copy of Deed from the Macdonald Charter Chest referred to by Mr G. M.
> Fraser, Portree."

We've been over this before, and there is no (or little) doubt about that
generation (based on the deed cited).

HOWEVER, there is GREAT doubt about several generations in the descent much
closer to Trump. Surviving records are so poor, and surnames so common, as
to throw much confusion over the whole bottom half of the pedigree.

[deca...@aol.com]

Only 10 more descents to go! Let's see if any of the 12 will hold up! Je dis non!

[D. Spencer Hines]

Let's take a serious harder look at Hillary's alleged ARDs as well.

William Reitwiesner, bless him, would be sorely disappointed with these two.

They just don't seem to stand up well to POTUS candidates of the past on the
ARD Scale.

Perhaps Gary Roberts has some insights.

DSH
-------------------------------------------

[D. Spencer Hines]

As a matter of fact, GBR does...

So, HRC's Rodham line fades into the co. Durham sunset -- indeed it cannot
currently be traced further back than Joseph Rodham, who died ca. 1742, says
GBR.

No Edward III line there.

But Hillary will always have Jack Kerouac and Madonna. Vide infra.

DSH
-----------------------------------------------------

Notes on the Ancestry of Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton

Gary Boyd Roberts

Senator Clinton's paternal grandparents, Hugh Rodham and Hannah Jones, were
respectively a native of Kyo, co. Durham, England (in the North), and the
daughter of John and Mary Jones, Welsh immigrant to Scranton, Pa. Hugh was
the son of Jonathan Rodham and Isabella Simpson Bell, who immigrated from
Durham to Scranton about 1881/82. Jonathan was the son of coal miner Joseph
Rodham (1817-1874) of Tanfield, Holmside, and Lanchester, co. Durham, and
Elizabeth Scurfield. Isabella Simpson Bell was the daughter of coal miner
Thomas Bell (born about 1801) and Elizabeth Dawson (born about 1819),
natives of Walls End, co. Northumberland (also in northern England). The
parents of Joseph and Elizabeth were Jonathan Rodham, Anne Parkinson, Thomas
Scurfield, and Margaret Charlton; Bells and Dawsons have not been further
traced.

The Rodhams are known for one more generation; Jonathan was the son of
Joseph Rodham (died about 1742) of Chester-le-Street and Tanfield, co.
Durham and Dorothy Bell (born [sic] at Chester-le-Street 26 August 1750).
Dorothy
Bell, Scurfields, and Charltons may be traced for a few more generations;
surnames introduced in these earlier generations include Graham (likely
Scottish), Stodart, Whittigar, and Coldcole.

Senator Clinton's mother, Chicago native Dorothy Emma Howell, still living,
is the daughter of Edwin John Howell, Jr., and Delia Murray, children
themselves of Edwin John Howell (1867-1941) and Emma Josephine Monk
(1874-1940), both of whom died in Los Angeles; and Daniel Murray (born 1859)
and Delia Martin (born about 1861), natives of Ontario, Canada and Michigan,
respectively. English Howells and Monks may also be traced for a few more
generations; new Welsh or English surnames through these lines include Babb,
Abbs, Williams, Hinton, Cotterell, Hodiernne, Floyd, Essex, Lashford,
Bradley, and Blakeway.

The parents of Daniel Murray are unknown; Illinois and Michigan censuses
indicate that they were Scots. Murray's wife, Delia Martin was the daughter
of an Antoine Martin (son of French natives Nicholas-Antoine Martine and
Odile Richard), and Mary Ann Frances McDougall (1823-1898), born in Windsor,
Ontario, who died in Detroit. Mary Ann Frances was a daughter of James
McDougall and Catherine Godet dite Marentette, granddaughter of John Robert
McDougall and Archange Campeau, and great- granddaughter of George McDougall
and Marie-Françoise Navarre. George McDougall was Scots, but Catherine,
Archange, and Marie-Françoise were fully French-Canadian. Their ancestry,
and the full French-Canadian ancestry of Hillary Rodham Clinton, is traced
in "Hillary Rodham Clinton's French-Canadian Ancestry: Detroit and Michigan
Connection," by Gail Moreau-DesHarnais and Diane Wolford Sheppard, published
in Michigan's Habitant Heritage: Journal of the French-Canadian Heritage
Society of Michigan, vol. 28 #4 (Oct. 2007), pp. 197-202.

Several French-Canadian scholars have traced a variety of notable distant
cousins of the Senator, all themselves of French-Canadian heritage. Most
French-Canadians or descendants of French-Canadians may indeed be related to
most other French Canadians to the extent of ninth to twelfth cousins - all
descend from a small population of seventeenth-century French immigrants to
what is now the province of Québec (a similar range of kinship connects most
U.S. residents with New England ancestry). Some of these distant cousins
include Canadian Prime Minister Pierre Trudeau, writer Jack Kerouac, singers
Madonna (through her mother) and Céline Dion, actress Angelina Jolie, recent
Canadian Prime Minister Jean Chrétien and, quite surprisingly, Camilla Shand
Parker Bowles, now H.R.H. The Duchess of Cornwall. The Duchess has
French-Canadian ancestry through Marie-Charlotte Coursol, wife of New
England-to-Canada immigrant Ephraim Jones, a great-uncle of Henry David
Thoreau (via Jones, Stuart, MacNab, Keppel, Cubitt, and Shand).

The Senator's only forebears who lived in the American colonies (pre-1776)
were (with his parents) Hillebrand Lootman of New Amsterdam, who in the
Dutch Reformed Church in Albany, New York, on 20 December 1689 married the
French Marie-Anne Leber (see The American Genealogist 66 [1991]: 1-9, 90-92,
169-75). Through Hillebrand Lootman the Senator is 1/1024th (about one tenth
of one percent) New York Dutch. Further research by English, Welsh,
Scottish, French, and French Canadian genealogists is eagerly awaited.

Gary Boyd Roberts
Notable Kin:
Canadian Prime Minister Pierre Trudeau
Jack Kerouac
Madonna
Céline Dion
Angelina Jolie
Canadian Prime Minister Jean Chrétien
Camilla Shand Parker-Bowles, Duchess of Cornwall

https://www.americanancestors.org/StaticContent/articles?searchby=author&subquery=Gary%20Boyd%20Roberts&id=665
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"Nothing in all the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and
conscientious stupidity."

Martin Luther King, Jr.
Strength to Love - Jan 1963

"D. Spencer Hines" wrote in message news:...

Let's take a serious, harder look at Hillary's alleged ARDs as well.

William Reitwiesner, bless him, would be sorely disappointed with these two.

They just don't seem to stand up well to POTUS candidates of the past on the
ARD Scale.

FDR [who had a deep interest in Royal Genealogy] must be spinning in his
grave, bless him.

[deca...@aol.com]

John Higgins (caretaker of the Robin Masters Estate in Hawaii) stated:

"The same goes for the Trump line that ‘the local troll’ keeps posting..."

I thought SGM had dealt with the troll years ago and that he also died. Now, whoever is posting under the name D. Spencer Hines is an impostor.

The below post to SGM back in 2002 seems to confirm that the real D. Spencer Hines of Hawaii passed away and subsequent posts to SGM by that name are from an impostor!

> From: "Roy Stockdill" (r...@stockdillfhs.org.uk)
> Subject: RIP D. Spencer Hines View:
> Original FormatNewsgroups: soc.genealogy.britain
> Date: 2002-12-19 12:47:37 PST
> THE passing has been announced in Hawaii of D. Spencer Hines, once
> described by someone whose name escapes me for the moment as "the
> greatest medieval genealogist of our time." It would, of course, be
> insufficient tribute to say that D. Spencer Hines was the Greatest
> Living Genealogist of the 20th and early 21st Century. Indeed, it
> would be a pathetic, maudlin lie.
>
> Descendant of Charlemagne and the Norse storm-god Woden, 29-times
> great-grandson of Lady Godiva, world welterweight dwarf-tossing
> champion, first lady Prime Minister of Outer Mongolia, chicken
> sexer-in-chief to Prince Charles and the Duchy of Cornwall,
> Right Honourable Underwear Sniffer to Camilla Parker Bowles, editor
> of the Alternative Burkes' Peerage published by the Family History
> Society of Stoke Poges, runner-up three years in succession in the
> Small Brain Championship of the Outer Hebrides - D. Spencer Hines was
> none of these things, though he aspired to them all.
>
> A direct decendant of Gordon the Flatulent of Normandy, chief scribe
> and toenail cutter to William the Conqueror, and Hardrada of the
> Hairy Nose of the Norwegian office of the Baltic Condensed Milk
> Company, Impotence Street, Oslo (ref: see the Genbrit archives),
> D. Spencer Hines came into the world in a bar in Louisville,
> Kentucky, where his father was the under-barman and his mother was
> frequently under the customers. A rebel from an early age, he
> attended the local high school but was expelled for exceptional
> stupidity well beyond the call of duty. He subsequently went to
> Harvard - on a day trip - and was asked never to darken that
> particular door again. He joined the US Forces in Vietnam and fought
> with outstanding bravery in the front line, arranging weekend
> cottages for debilitated GIs who wanted to shack up for a couple of
> days with their Chinese girlfriends.
>
> Leaving the service of Uncle Sam, he turned his endless and
> inexhaustibly fertile talents to researching his family history and
> genealogical descent from the royal family of Britain. It is believed
> that Queen Elizabeth II herself encouraged him to do this when she
> met him during a royal visit to Ulan Bator, where he was running an
> academy for the moral guidance of defrocked Mongolian bank managers
> at the time. Gripping him by the left arm, HM declared: "Cuz Spence,
> you must do it for the family!" From then on, he devoted all his
> waking time to tracing his ancestry from Peter the Petulant of the
> Hanging Gardens of Babylon, the Maharaja of Stoke Poges, and Gladwys
> the Gullible of Gwent. When he published his researches into these
> genealogical connections it caused a literary sensation, selling 3
> copies in Harrods in 15 and a half years, all to his mother.
>
> In later life, D Spencer Hines retired to the relative obscurity of
> Hawaii, where awestruck natives often referred to him as "He Who
> Walks On Water and Sometimes Fall In". From his mountain-top eyrie he
> fired off a barrage of genealogical wisdom around the world, using
> the new facility of the Internet. He was regarded by all who came
> into contact with him as the Father of Medieval Genealogy, a title
> self bestowed and which was affixed to his front door, along with a
> notice saying "Just one pint today, please milkman."
>
> The funeral was at sea and nobody came.
>
>Roy Stockdill (Editor, Journal of One-Name Studies)
>Guild of One-Name Studies:- www.one-name.org
>Newbies' Guide to Genealogy & Family History:- >www.genuki.org.uk/gs/Newbie.html
>-------
>Michael W Cook

Fair winds and following seas to the real D. Spencer Hines!

[joe...@gmail.com]

Sorry. No chance this is an imposter, and the real dsh is (happily) alive but (sadly) here to wreck this group once again.

[Bronwen Edwards]

Certainly more of a roast than an elegy.

[Derek Howard]

Roy Stockdill was formerly a journalist with the disreputable "News of the World" and this is not the first time he has written fiction for the purposes of his own entertainment and posted such on a genealogy list.

[peter...@yahoo.ca]

I can attest to the disconnectedness of those of us of French Canadian descent. My wife is about 99.5% French Canadian the other .5% being split between Native American and English. She is distantly related to everyone else of French Canadian descent including Clinton. I on the other hand only have between 5% and 10% French Canadian ancestry. I am related to roughly 95-99% of all those of French Canadian descent, Clinton not being one of them. However, my wife and I share two or three sets of ancestors in New France.

[PDel...@aol.com]

I know Roy quite well of late and will ask him. :))

Peter


In a message dated 17/01/2017 11:40:08 GMT Standard Time, dho...@skynet.be
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