Robert de Quincy..a glitch in Weis?

[Kathie Weigel]

Need help with another possible glitch in Weis' A.R.:

Line 53 shows Saher de Quincy and Margaret de Beaumont with a son Roger
(53-28), who m. Helen of Galloway.

The next line, 54, shows another son of this couple, Robert de Quincy
(54-28) with wife Hawise de Chester, who died 1242/3. The cross-listing
for Hawise (125-29) gives no further info on Robert.

Then, in line 236, we find Ellen or Helen, d/o Llewellyn & Joan,
marrying, as her second husband, Robert de Quincy, described as the 3rd
s/o Saire de Quincy and Margaret de Beaumont, and "brother of Roger de
Quincy (53-28)." It goes on to say that this Robert had an elder brother
also called Robert, who died without issue. No earlier marriage is
mentioned for the younger Robert.

Did Robert de Quincy marry Ellen as his second wife after the death of
Hawise de Chester? If so, no detail is given here. Interestingly, the
daughter of Robert and ELLEN is given as HAWISE de Quincy (possibly in
memory of his dead first wife?). Or is this connection incorrect?

Thanks,

Kathie Weigel

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[Todd A. Farmerie]

Kathie Weigel wrote:
>
> Need help with another possible glitch in Weis' A.R.:
>
> Line 53 shows Saher de Quincy and Margaret de Beaumont with a son Roger
> (53-28), who m. Helen of Galloway.
>
> The next line, 54, shows another son of this couple, Robert de Quincy
> (54-28) with wife Hawise de Chester, who died 1242/3. The cross-listing
> for Hawise (125-29) gives no further info on Robert.
>
> Then, in line 236, we find Ellen or Helen, d/o Llewellyn & Joan,
> marrying, as her second husband, Robert de Quincy, described as the 3rd
> s/o Saire de Quincy and Margaret de Beaumont, and "brother of Roger de
> Quincy (53-28)." It goes on to say that this Robert had an elder brother
> also called Robert, who died without issue. No earlier marriage is
> mentioned for the younger Robert.
>
> Did Robert de Quincy marry Ellen as his second wife after the death of
> Hawise de Chester? If so, no detail is given here. Interestingly, the
> daughter of Robert and ELLEN is given as HAWISE de Quincy (possibly in
> memory of his dead first wife?). Or is this connection incorrect?

This family has been through hard times due to scholarly reanalysis of
the relationships. To make a long story short, Saher did have two sons
named Robert. The older married Hawise of Chester, but was in rebellian
at the time of his death, and so his line was passed over for the Quincy
inheritance. That his younger brother Roger succeeded led to the
mistaken conclusion that Robert had died without issue, and it was
suggested that the husband of Hawise was actually brother of Saher.
More recently, however, unambiguos documentary proof was found that it
was Robert, oldest son of Saher who married Hawise.

The Robert who married Ellen was a different, younger brother.

taf

[Jim Stevens]

This is indeed an interesting Family. First of all, Saher de Quincy and
Margaret de Beaumont had TWO sons named Robert. The eldest married Hawise
of Chester and the younger married Helen/Ellen of Wales. This family also
has one of the rarest of genealogical oddities. Roger de Quincy, Earl of
Winchester, brother of the two Roberts, married as his 3rd wife, Eleanor,
,dau. of William de Ferrers, Earl of Derby, and Sibyl Marshal. The
aforementioned William de Ferrers married as his second wife, Margaret,
dau. of the aforementioned Roger de Quincy and Helen of Galloway. That is,
late in life, the Earls of Derby and of Winchester married each other's
daughters. This made the two earl's wives, Margaret De Quincy and Eleanor
de Ferrers each others stepmother - and each other's stepdaughter!

For more notes and a graphiv representation of these relationships, log
onto my website at the URL in my signature and use the index by ID # to go
to # 853, Saher de Quincy, as a starting point.

>Need help with another possible glitch in Weis' A.R.:
>
>Line 53 shows Saher de Quincy and Margaret de Beaumont with a son Roger
>(53-28), who m. Helen of Galloway.
>
>The next line, 54, shows another son of this couple, Robert de Quincy
>(54-28) with wife Hawise de Chester, who died 1242/3. The cross-listing
>for Hawise (125-29) gives no further info on Robert.
>
>Then, in line 236, we find Ellen or Helen, d/o Llewellyn & Joan,
>marrying, as her second husband, Robert de Quincy, described as the 3rd
>s/o Saire de Quincy and Margaret de Beaumont, and "brother of Roger de
>Quincy (53-28)." It goes on to say that this Robert had an elder brother
>also called Robert, who died without issue. No earlier marriage is
>mentioned for the younger Robert.
>
>Did Robert de Quincy marry Ellen as his second wife after the death of
>Hawise de Chester? If so, no detail is given here. Interestingly, the
>daughter of Robert and ELLEN is given as HAWISE de Quincy (possibly in
>memory of his dead first wife?). Or is this connection incorrect?
>

>Thanks,
>
>Kathie Weigel

Today is the first day of the rest of your life ! (jste...@iquest.net) Jim

Visit my genealogy website at
http://www.gendex.com/users/jast

[Thomas Moore]

Eudo la Zouche and Milicent de Cantilupe had a daughter Lucy la Zouche
who married Thomas Green(e). Would anyone be able to verify or comment
on the following descent from Lucy la Zouche?

1 Lucy la Zouche
+Thomas Green(e)
2 Sir Henry Greene - 1369
+Catherine de Drayton
3 Sir Henry Greene
+Matilda de Mauduit
4 John Greene - abt 1433
+Margaret de Greene abt 1412 -
5 Isabella de Greene abt 1434 –
+Sir Richard de Vere abt 1430 –
6 Henry Vere abt 1450 –
+Isabella Tresham abt 1460 –
7 Elizabeth Vere abt 1483 –
+Baron John Mordaunt abt 1480 –
6 Elena de Vere abt 1456 –
+Thomas Isham 1456 –
7 Sir Euseby Isham 1486 – 11 Dec 1546
+Anne Poulton - 11 Dec 1546
8 Katherine Isham abt 1517 –
+Richard Pagett abt 1515 – abt 1585
9 Rev. Eusebius Pagett 1545 - 1617
8 Gregory Isham 1520 – 1558
+Elizabeth Dale 1510 –
7 John Isham 1488 –
7 Henry Isham 1490 –
+Anne Fogg

Thanks for your comments.

Tom Moore
tomm...@his.com