Sir Richard de Cornwall & the Howards?

[Cristopher Nash]

Seeing discussion of children of Richard, E of Cornwall, I can't resist
asking for advice on a problem I've long meant to get to concerning another
purported descent of his. There'll appear to be resonances here of past
discussions of Valletort/Champernowne and related families, but my
suspicion (as'll be seen below) is that they'll be superficial and will
soon subside.

There is what I can only - for lack of adequate research on my own part -
call 'lore' (e.g. among American descendants of the Howards of Norfolk)
that Sir John Howard (s. of Sir William Howard and Alice Fitton) m. "Joan,
sister of Richard de Cornwall" - implying either [Sir] Richard de Cornwall
(evidently holding land in Burford [Salop] and Benington [Herts]), the
illegitimate son of Richard E of Cornwall, or Richard the son of the
latter. This 'Joan' is called the mother of Sir John Howard who m. Alice de
Bosco [Bois].

Those here involved in Howard (and/or Champernowne) research may well have
a ready answer to this query - i.e. can all/any of this be positively
dismissed or verified, and if the latter, are details available concerning
Joan's mother?

I note that "Joan, possibly an illegitimate daughter of Richard
(Plantagenet) [Richard, E of Cornwall]...by Joan de Vautort or Valletort"
m. Richard de Champernowne -- per Gary Boyd Roberts in _Nexus_ Vol XIII,
Nos. 3 & 4 (1996), p 129, giving Addits & Corrects to p 317 of his _Royal
Descs of 500 Immigrants_.

On chronological grounds it seems to me unlikely that -- Champernownes/
Valletorts/Oketons et al. aside -- a Joan m. to Sir John Howard s. of Sir
William Howard and Alice Fitton could be a da. of Richard, E of Cornwall's
illegitimate son Richard, but she -- if she exists -- might be da. of Sir
Richard of Cornwall of Shelswell, Oxon, called 'the king's clerk and
cousin' in 1327; knighted 1338, still holds manor of Shelswell in 1346.

Fading and analytically frail biographies of Richard E of Cornwall like
Denholm-Young's and TWE Roche's are admirably, predictably and probably
justifiably silent on the subject.

Any thoughts would be much appreciated!

Cris

Note also

[G . EDWARD ALLEN]

This is what I have from The House od Cornwall. Amore complete citation
with authorship should be found in the archives. Sorry
, I don't havbe it to hand.

1. Joan Cornawall.
2. Richard Cornwall; d. after 1296.
3. Joan FitzAlan.
4. Richard, Earl of Cornwall.
6. John FitzAlan; b. 14 Srpt. 1246; d. 18 Mar. 1271/72.
7. Isabel Mortimer.

All the arguments are in the book. Joan has two brothers, Sir Edmund
and Sir Geoffrey. These are the founders of Cornwall of Burford and
Cornwall of Kinlet.

Kay Allen AG all...@pacbell.net