Roland Tudor?

[jche...@hotmail.com]

Hi

Did Henry VII had an illegitimate son called
Roland? If so did he have any descendants and
when did they die out (or not?).

Thanks very much

John Chevers

-----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==-----
http://www.dejanews.com/ Now offering spam-free web-based newsreading

[ED MANN]

jche...@hotmail.com wrote:
>
> Hi
>
> Did Henry VII had an illegitimate son called
> Roland? If so did he have any descendants and
> when did they die out (or not?).

Per Alison Wier (BRF:151), Henry VII had

"By a Breton lady whose name is not known:
1 Roland de Velville, Constable of Beaumaris Castle, Anglesey; he
married
a Welshwoman, and had issue."

--
FWIW; AFAIK; IMHO; YMMV; yadda, yadda, yadda.

Regards, Ed Mann mailto:edl...@mail2.lcia.com

References:
Ä = Weis, _Ancestral_Roots_, 7th ed.
AAP = Roberts, _Ancestors_of_American_Presidents_, [page] or
[Pres. # : page].
BP1 = _Burke's_Presidential_Families_, 1st ed. [page].
BPci = _Burke's_Peerage_, 101st ed., [page].
BRF = Weir, _Britain's_Royal_Families_, [page].
BxP = _Burke's_Dormant_&_Extinct_Peerages_, [page].
EC1 = Redlich, _Emperor_Charlemagne's_Descendants_, Vol I, [page].
EC2 = Langston & Buck, _Emperor_Charlemagne's_Descendants_, Vol II,
[page].
EC3 = Buck & Beard, _Emperor_Charlemagne's_Descendants_, Vol II,
[page].
F = Faris, _Plantagenet_Ancestry_, [page:para].
S = Stuart, _Royalty_for_Commoners_, 2d ed.
W = Weis, _Magna_Charta_Sureties,_1215_, 4th ed.

[William Addams Reitwiesner]

EDL...@MAIL2.LCIA.COM (ED MANN) wrote:

>jche...@hotmail.com wrote:
>>
>> Hi
>>
>> Did Henry VII had an illegitimate son called
>> Roland? If so did he have any descendants and
>> when did they die out (or not?).
>
>Per Alison Wier (BRF:151), Henry VII had
>
>"By a Breton lady whose name is not known:
> 1 Roland de Velville, Constable of Beaumaris Castle, Anglesey; he
>married
> a Welshwoman, and had issue."

The Welsh woman was Annes ferch Gwilym Fychan. See Wagner, *English
Genealogy*, 2nd Edition [Oxford: Clarendon, 1972], p. 240 for some of their
descendants. As for Roland being a bastard Tudor, that story is debunked
by S. B. Chrimes in "Sir Roland de Veleville", *Cylchgrawn Hanes Cymru [The
Welsh History Review]*, vol. 3 (1967), pp. 287-289.

William Addams Reitwiesner
wr...@erols.com

"Sic gorgiamus allos subjectatos nunc."

[Graham Milne]

William,

Your ignorance or prejudice (or both!) is insurmountable! This subject has
been raised before and you clearly haven't bothered to look any further into
it. The full text of the article by Professor Chrimes can be found at:-

http://www.cogent-comms.co.uk/roland.htm

As you will see when you read the article, it is full of rudimentary errors
of fact, fundamental errors of logic and assertions made without any
evidence but I don't suppose you really mind!

Graham Milne

William Addams Reitwiesner wrote in message
<353826fc...@news.erols.com>...

[Graham Milne]

PS Her name wasn't Annes, it was Agnes!

[William Addams Reitwiesner]

"Graham Milne" <gra...@cogent-comms.co.uk> wrote:

(formatting error corrected, response placed at the bottom of the message
where it belongs)

>William Addams Reitwiesner wrote in message
><353826fc...@news.erols.com>...
>>EDL...@MAIL2.LCIA.COM (ED MANN) wrote:
>>
>>>jche...@hotmail.com wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Hi
>>>>
>>>> Did Henry VII had an illegitimate son called
>>>> Roland? If so did he have any descendants and
>>>> when did they die out (or not?).
>>>
>>>Per Alison Wier (BRF:151), Henry VII had
>>>
>>>"By a Breton lady whose name is not known:
>>> 1 Roland de Velville, Constable of Beaumaris Castle, Anglesey; he
>>>married
>>> a Welshwoman, and had issue."
>>
>>The Welsh woman was Annes ferch Gwilym Fychan. See Wagner, *English
>>Genealogy*, 2nd Edition [Oxford: Clarendon, 1972], p. 240 for some of their
>>descendants. As for Roland being a bastard Tudor, that story is debunked
>>by S. B. Chrimes in "Sir Roland de Veleville", *Cylchgrawn Hanes Cymru [The
>>Welsh History Review]*, vol. 3 (1967), pp. 287-289.
>

>PS Her name wasn't Annes, it was Agnes!

Ah, so Peter C. Bartrum, in *Welsh Genealogies AD 1400-1500* [Aberystwyth:
Llyfrgell Genedlaethol Cymru, 1983], vol. VIII, p. 1265, table "Marchudd
6(B1)", over on the right-hand side of the table, is incorrect. Gotcha.

Thank you for sharing.