Wahull to Osbaldeston; the manor of Chadlington
Clagett, Brice
5:202, recites the following remarkable descent of the manor
of Chadlington Wahull, Oxfordshire, through six female lines.
(The first five generations have been supplemented and con-
firmed from Col. Hanseon's "The Barons of Wodhull," The Genealogist
7-8:14-15, 83 n.ll2.)
1. Michael de Wahull, d. by 1215; held Chadlington; m. Andrea ____.
2. Simon de Wahull, fl. 1230, d. by 1233; held Chadlington;
m. Joan ____.
3. Walter FitzSimon de Wahull, b. by 1279; held Chadlington.
4. Margaret de Wahull, heiress; m. Reginald de Watham, who held
Chadlington.
5. Isabel de Watham, heiress; m. Sir John FitzNigel (wrongly
called Sir John Lee in the Visitation account), of Boarstall, Bucks.
6. Jane FitzNigel, heiress; d. by 1325; m. Sir John de Haudlo, lst
Lord Haudlo. (CP 6:400.)
7. Sir Richard de Haudlo, d.v.p., 1343; m. Isabel, dau. of Sir
Amauri de St. Amand, 2d Lord St. Amand, and great-granddau. of Hugh
Le Despenser, Earl of Winchester. (CP 6:400-01, 11:299.)
8. Margaret de Haudlo, fl. 1358-66; said to have d. c. 1394;
coheiress of her brother, Edmund de Haudlo; m. (1) Gilbert de
Chastelleyn; (2) John de Appleby. (CP 6:401.)
9. Joan de Appleby, heiress; m. Roger Coghull.
10. Joan Coghull, heiress; m. John Osbaldeston, jure uxoris of
Chadlington.
11. John Osbaldeston, d. 1503; of Chadlington; m. Ann.
______________________________
There seem to be two problems with this descent:
1. While the manor of Chadlington purportedly passed straight
down, there is no reference to it among the FitzNigel or
Haudlo properties at CP 6:400-01.
2. According to CP 6:401, while Margaret de Haudlo (no. 8
above) was coheiress of her brother, her sister Elizabeth,
wife of Sir Edmund de la Pole, became in her issue sole heir
to that brother. See also CP 2:356. This of course implies
that Margaret's line failed and that the Osbaldestons must
have obtained Chadlington by some other means.
Help, any one? The answer may be in the Chancery ipm on
Edmund de Haudlo, Ed. III, file 140 no. 36, which I have not
seen.
rosie bevan
There were two Chadlington manors - Chadlington Wahull and Chadlington
Shippenhull, both of which were held by Edmund de Haudlo at his death [CIPM
X no.277].
From the Boarstall Cartulary, [H.E Salter, The Boarstall Cartulary, (Oxford,
1930), p.118-120], documents pertaining to the Haudlo family estates have
been reproduced. The partition of Edmund's estates between his two sisters
was made on February 8 1362 [Cal. Close Rolls 1360-64, p.387- not seen],
whereby Margaret de Haudlo and John Appleby her husband, had the manors of
"Borstall, Brill, Cleresplace, Adingrave, Oakley, rent in Estclaydon,
Botelclaydon, Middelclaydon, and Ickford, all the rent in Upton, and the
bailliewick of the forestership of Bernewood, all in Bucks.; also Musewell,
Thomley, the manor of Chadlington Wahull, the manor of Headington with the
bailiwick of the forest of Shotover and Stowood...". Elizabeth de Haudlo and
Edmund de la Pole had, " the manors of Tremeworth, Faune, Croundale, with
the advowson of the church, Haudlo, Wynchcombe, Ore, Asshedone, and rent in
Canterbury and Welde, all in Kent ; also the manor of Chadlington called
Shippenhull...'
Unfortunately for Edmund and his wife, their manors of Tremworth and Vanne,
rent in Canterbury, and the advowson of Crondale suffered a recovery in
chancery, so Margaret and John Appleby had to compensate them for the loss.
On July 15 1366 a new partition was made by the king who assigned Edmund and
Elizabeth the manors of "Borstall, Oakley, and Adingrave, lands in Brill,
and rents in Estclaydon, Botelclaydon, Middleclaydon,, and Ickford, all
parcel of the manor of Boarstall, and the bailliwick of the forestership of
Bernewood; also in Oxfordshire the manors of Musewell, Thomley, and
Headington, with the bailliwick of the forestership of Shotover...'.
Presumably Margaret and her husband received the two Chadlington manors and
the residue [which is described in Cal of Close Rolls (1364-8) p.230.- not
seen]. Basically a virtual switch seems to have been put into effect.
The author of the CP article on the Brun family [CP II p.356 has claimed
that Elizabeth de la Pole was the eventual heir in her issue citing the IPMs
of Edmund de Haudlo and Edmund de la Pole and third document which I can't
identify ( Exch Inq p. m.I, file 115, no.2), neither of the former support
this statement in the light of the information just given. It's possible
that having knowledge of the first division and seeing the properties listed
in Sir Edmund's inquisitions, the assumption has been made that Margaret's
line had died out. The fact is, there are several manors missing from Sir
Edmund de la Pole's inquisition, including the two Chadlington manors, Ore,
Asshedon, Winchcombe, Cleresplace, rent in Upton, Canterbury and Welde, and
the Gloucs. manors of Coln St Aldwyn, Hatherop, and Wyke held in dower by
Edmund de Haudlo's widow.
This leaves it possible that John and Margaret did have surviving heirs.
Further research is needed to be sure of this, however.
Cheers
Rosie
Chris Phillips
> The author of the CP article on the Brun family [CP II p.356 has claimed
> that Elizabeth de la Pole was the eventual heir in her issue citing the
IPMs
> of Edmund de Haudlo and Edmund de la Pole and third document which I can't
> identify ( Exch Inq p. m.I, file 115, no.2), neither of the former support
> this statement in the light of the information just given.
A bit of creative browsing on the PRO catalogue suggests that this Exchequer
inquisition would be part of what's now catalogued as E 149/115, which is
dated 7 Hen V, [1Hen VI], and that the Chancery inquisition of Edmund de la
Pole ("Hen. V, file 41, no. 63") is now in C 138/41, also dated 7 Hen V. So
probably the exchequer document also relates to Edmund de la Pole, which I
suppose is what the CP footnote is saying (although it's rather ambiguously
phrased).
Chris Phillips
rosie bevan
If it relates to the inquisition of Emund de la Pole and contains the same
information, then a good hard look for the descendants of Margaret is
warranted.
Cheers
Rosie
----- Original Message -----
Douglas Richardson
The Chancery suits listed below may be helpful to your search. Two of
the suits indicate that John Osbaldeston, Esq., and William Reade,
Knt., were co-heirs of Richard Beauchamp, Knt., Lord Saint Amand.
William Reade, Knt., was a great-grandson of Edmund de la Pole (died
1419) and his wife, Elizabeth de Haudlo. I assume that John
Osbaldeston and William Rede were both related to Richard Beauchamp,
Lord Saint Amand, through Elizabeth de Haudlo's mother, Isabel de
Saint Amand. If so, I assume your pedigree is correct that John
Osbaldeston descends from Elizabeth de Haudlo's sister, Margaret de
Haudlo.
Does John Osbaldeston, Esq., have American descendants?
Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah
E-mail: royala...@msn.com
- - - - - - - -
C 1/56/89 Thomas Osbaldeston, of Chadlington, esquire. v. Richard
Nowers: Messuage and land in Spellesbury, late of Richard Wyrlok,
chaplain.: [Oxford ?]. 1386-1486
C 1/352/1 William Rede, knight, and John Osbaldeston, esquire, cousins
and heirs-tail of Richard Beauchamp, knight, late Lord Seyntmore. v.
Thomas, abbot of Stanley: Detention of deeds relating to the manors of
Ipylpen, Stokeharrys, Ambrisbery, Chaldrynton, Ashamsted, Bukynton,
Grendon, and Hillisley.
C 1/353/41 William Rede, knight, and John Osbaldeston, esquire. v.
Antony Styleman: Detention of deeds relating to complainant's
inheritance, delivered to defendant by their ancestor Richard
Beauchamp, lord St. Amand (Seintmond).: [Bedford, Huntingdon, &c.].
C 1/1040/13-14 Edward, son and heir and executor of Richard NEWPORTE,
v. John, son of Richard OSBASTON (Osbaldeston), esquire.: Expulsion
from his home of Susan his wife, complainant's sister. (Defendant
accuses complainant of forcible entry and assault at Chadlington.):
OXFORD. 1538-1544
C 1/1510/20 William PALMER v. John HAVERD.: Lands and goods charged
with legacies to the children of . . . Osbaldeston of Chadlington,
gentleman, brother-in-law of complainant.: OXFORD. (Henry VIII or
later.)
bcla...@cov.com ("Clagett, Brice") wrote in message news:<B1F75BF666FCFD4F9B3...@cbiexm01dc.cov.com>...
Chris Phillips
> The Chancery suits listed below may be helpful to your search. Two of
> the suits indicate that John Osbaldeston, Esq., and William Reade,
> Knt., were co-heirs of Richard Beauchamp, Knt., Lord Saint Amand.
> William Reade, Knt., was a great-grandson of Edmund de la Pole (died
> 1419) and his wife, Elizabeth de Haudlo. I assume that John
> Osbaldeston and William Rede were both related to Richard Beauchamp,
> Lord Saint Amand, through Elizabeth de Haudlo's mother, Isabel de
> Saint Amand. If so, I assume your pedigree is correct that John
> Osbaldeston descends from Elizabeth de Haudlo's sister, Margaret de
> Haudlo.
> C 1/352/1 William Rede, knight, and John Osbaldeston, esquire, cousins
> and heirs-tail of Richard Beauchamp, knight, late Lord Seyntmore. v.
> Thomas, abbot of Stanley: Detention of deeds relating to the manors of
> Ipylpen, Stokeharrys, Ambrisbery, Chaldrynton, Ashamsted, Bukynton,
> Grendon, and Hillisley.
>
> C 1/353/41 William Rede, knight, and John Osbaldeston, esquire. v.
> Antony Styleman: Detention of deeds relating to complainant's
> inheritance, delivered to defendant by their ancestor Richard
> Beauchamp, lord St. Amand (Seintmond).: [Bedford, Huntingdon, &c.].
Thanks for that information, which looks like a pretty strong indication
that the Osbaldestons were descendants of Margaret Haudlo.
I didn't have much success identifying the places mentioned in C 1/352/1,
but presumably some are - like Stanley Abbey - in Wiltshire (Ambrisbery =
Amesbury?). If these are Wiltshire properties of the St Amands, this would
make sense. Provided that the younger Gerard Braybrooke (son of Gerard
Braybrooke (d. 1429) and Eleanor de St Amand) had no siblings who left
surviving issue, then according to the account in CP there would be no
closer cousins of Richard Beauchamp, arising from his St Amand ancestry,
than the descendants of Isabel de St Amand, the wife of Richard Haudlo.
Perhaps someone can confirm that the issue of the younger Gerard
Braybrooke's siblings (if he had any) was extinct. This is certainly
suggested by CP xi 303 note g, which says that in 1515 Richard Beauchamp's
heir was found to be Thomas (Brooke), Lord Cobham. It attrubutes this to a
pretended claim that he was a descendant of a brother of the _elder_ Gerard
Braybrooke.
Chris Phillips
Douglas Richardson
I believe the Chancery suit I posted yesterday is a correction for the
Saint Amand account in Complete Peerage. When Richard Beauchamp, Lord
Saint Amand, died without issue in 1508, he had no near relations.
His IPM dated 1513 returned his heir as "unknown." Complete Peerage
states that in 1515 his "heir was found to be Thomas (Brooke), Lord
Cobham." That statement is only partially correct. Richard
Beauchamp's estate actually had several claimants to different parts
of his lands. Lord Cobham was heir only to the part of the Saint
Amand estates originally held by the Braybrook family.
One set of claimants to the Saint Amand estates were the claimants to
properties originally held by the Saint Amand family itself. The two
Saint Amand representatives were Sir William Reade and John
Osbaldeston, Esq. They presumably claimed in right of their
ancestress, Isabel de Saint Amand, wife of Richard de Haudlo, which
Isabel was full sister of Amaury de Saint Amand, 2nd Lord Saint Amand
(died 1381). Among the properties claimed by Sir William Reade and
John Osbaldeston was Ipplepen, Devon, which property I show was held
by John de Saint Amand, 1st Lord Saint Amand (died 1330), father of
Isabel de Saint Amand and Amaury, 2nd Lord.
The other set of claimants were the heirs of properties originally
held by Richard Beauchamp's mother's family, the Braybrook family.
The two Braybrook representatives were Sir John Brooke, Lord Cobham
(later succeeded in his claim by his son, Thomas), and Thomas Griffin,
son of Nicholas Griffin. They claimed the manors of Colmworth, co.
Bedford and Ramerick, co. Hertford, which properties were originally
held by the Braybrook family (Richard Beauchamp's mother was a
Braybrook heiress).
I have posted below six Chancery suits which represent the interests
of the two sets of representatives. These suits can be found on the
Public Record Office website at the following address:
C 1/119/10 John Brooke, knight, lord Cobham, son of Edward, son of
Johanne, daughter of Reynold Braybroke, brother of Gerard, father of
Gerard, father of Gerard, father of Elizabeth, mother of Richard
Beauchamp, lord Seyntmond, deceased. v. Thomas, abbot of the monastery
of Stanley. 1486-1529
C 1/287/90 Thomas Broke, lord Cobham, cousin and heir of Richard
Beauchamp, lord St. Amand. v. Thomas, abbot of Stanley: Detention of
deeds relating to the manors of Colmworth, Knotting, and Ramerick.:
Bedford, Hertford.
C 1/290/85 Thomas Broke, lord Cobham, cousin and heir of Richard
Beauchamp, lord St. Amand. v. Thomas, abbot of Stanley: Detention of
deeds relating to the manors of Colmworth, Knotting, and Ramerick.:
Bedford, Hertford.
C 1/315/43 Thomas, son of Nicholas Griffyn, cousin and heir of Richard
Beauchamp, lord de St. Amand. v. Thomas, abbot of Stanley: Detention
of deeds relating to the manors of Horsendon, Caldecote, Colmworth,
and Knotting; Overton Lonvylle, and Remerwike.: Bedford, Buckingham,
[Huntingdon, Hertford].
C 1/352/1 William Rede, knight, and John Osbaldeston, esquire, cousins
and heirs-tail of Richard Beauchamp, knight, late Lord Seyntmore. v.
Thomas, abbot of Stanley: Detention of deeds relating to the manors of
Ipylpen, Stokeharrys, Ambrisbery, Chaldrynton, Ashamsted, Bukynton,
Grendon, and Hillisley.
C 1/353/41 William Rede, knight, and John Osbaldeston, esquire. v.
Antony Styleman: Detention of deeds relating to complainant's
inheritance, delivered to defendant by their ancestor Richard
Beauchamp, lord St. Amand (Seintmond).: [Bedford, Huntingdon, &c.].
Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah
E-mail: royala...@msn.com
"Chris Phillips" <c...@medievalgenealogy.org.uk> wrote in message news:<bu6mgb$gqj$1...@news8.svr.pol.co.uk>...
Chris Phillips
Douglas Richardson wrote
> The other set of claimants were the heirs of properties originally
> held by Richard Beauchamp's mother's family, the Braybrook family.
> The two Braybrook representatives were Sir John Brooke, Lord Cobham
> (later succeeded in his claim by his son, Thomas), and Thomas Griffin,
> son of Nicholas Griffin. They claimed the manors of Colmworth, co.
> Bedford and Ramerick, co. Hertford, which properties were originally
> held by the Braybrook family (Richard Beauchamp's mother was a
> Braybrook heiress).
> C 1/119/10 John Brooke, knight, lord Cobham, son of Edward, son of
> Johanne, daughter of Reynold Braybroke, brother of Gerard, father of
> Gerard, father of Gerard, father of Elizabeth, mother of Richard
> Beauchamp, lord Seyntmond, deceased. v. Thomas, abbot of the monastery
> of Stanley. 1486-1529
Thanks for that further information.
I should have noticed the blatant contradiction between the CP footnote I
cited previously - which says "Sir Reynold Braybroke, br. of Sir Gerard who
m. Eleanor de St. Amand, was 2nd husband of Joan, Baroness Cobham, but the
alleged heir [Thomas Brooke, son of John Brooke] was descended from her 1st
marriage" [xi 303 note g] - and the Cobham account, which is clear that
Joan's only surviving daughter and heir, Joan, was from her marriage to
Braybroke [iii 346]. Particularly as Brad Verity recently initiated a
detailed discussion on Joan, her marriages and children, based on
information from Nigel Saul's book.
(I suppose there's no doubt that the younger Joan was Braybroke's daughter.
Saul agrees with this, and although the discussion suggested that c. 1404
was probably too late as an estimate for her birth, the elder Joan's first
husband, Sir Robert Hemenhale, had died well before this, in 1391.)
That being so, the Brooke claim to the Braybrooke lands would seem clear
enough. Is it known what the basis was for the claim by Thomas Griffin, son
of Nicholas Griffin?
Chris Phillips
Douglas Richardson
I contacted Peter Osbaldeston, an Osbaldeston family historian in
England, by e-mail this past week. A copy his reply is given below.
He indicates that he can verify Generations 9-11 of your posted
pedigree. If you wish further particulars, I recommend you contact
Mr. Osbaldeston directly at the following e-mail address:
Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah
E-mail: royala...@msn.com
- - - - - - - - - -
Dear Douglas,
Thanks so much for you email - all I can tell you is that the section
of the pedigree for Chadlington is correct from No.9. I have
researched this branch of the Osbaldeston family and have a chapter on
the subject in my 'History of the Osbaldeston Family' but I only take
it from the family as it leaves the main Osbaldeston of Osbaldeston
Family in Lancashire and how this younger branch settled at
Chadlington with a break away family in Burford. Another very
important line that left the Lancashire line settled in Hunmanby, East
Yorkshire and this is the section which I have researched in great
depth and in much greater detail than that of Chadlington, as it was
so important with links to so many important titled familes in the UK,
i.e. Mitfords/Redesdale/Cecils/Amhursts and so on and so on.
Sorry that I am unable to assist more with Notes 1 to 8.
Very best wishes,
Peter Osbaldeston
bcla...@cov.com ("Clagett, Brice") wrote in message news:<B1F75BF666FCFD4F9B3...@cbiexm01dc.cov.com>...
Douglas Richardson
It appears that the immigrant, Governor Thomas Rudyard of New Jersey,
is a lineal descendant of John Osbaldeston, Esq., of Chadlington, co.
Oxford, who was the subject of a recent thread here on the newsgroup.
Governor Rudyard would possess interesting royal and baronial ancestry
through John Osbaldeston's Haudlo-Saint Amand-Despencer connection.
By any chance, does anyone have Governor Rudyard in their ancestry?
Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah
E-mail: royala...@msn.com
royala...@msn.com (Douglas Richardson) wrote in message news:<5cf47a19.04011...@posting.google.com>...