Sir John Holand of Northamptonshire/ Beauchamp/Fiennes
Douglas Richardson
Northamptonshire and on his son, presumably also Sir John
Holand. The elder Sir John is mentioned in the Patent Rolls
in 1406, when his daughter, Margaret, married John, son of
ROger de Beauchamp, Knt. (ca. 1362-1406), of Bletsoe, co.
Bedford and Bloxham, co. Oxford, Chamberlain of the
Household to King Edward III. The record does not state if
Sir John Holand was living in 1406, only that Margaret was
his daughter.
Roskell calls this Sir John Holand "a local Northampton
landowner." Yet, a survey of the patent and close rolls of
this period has turned up no particular entries regarding
this man. The only John Holand who conceivably can fit is
John Holand of Thorp Waterville, co. Northampton who
received a commission to arrest and deliver to the sheriff
of Derby a certain Robert de Bounsall of Brunalston in 1393.
According to the Victoria County History of Northampton,
John Holand of Thorpe Waterville was none other than Sir
John Holand, Earl of Huntingdon, afterwards Duke of Exeter.
who was beheaded and attainted in 1400.
Moreover, it appears that Margaret Holand, wife of John
Beauchamp, was sister of that Elizabeth Holand, wife of
Roger Fiennes (ca. 1384-1449) which Elizabeth is styled the
"sister of Sir John Holand of Northamptonshire" in various
accounts, The only Sir John Holand alive during
Elizabeth's adult lifetime was the Sir John who was son and
heir of the earlier Sir John Holand, he being Sir John
Holand, who had the titles Earl of Huntingdon and Duke of
Exeter restored to him sometime after 1417. In 1428, the
younger John appears in Feudal Aids simply as John Holand of
Thorp Waterville, co. Northampton, which indicates that he
resided at Thorp Waterville just as his father had before
him.
That Elizabeth, wife of Roger Fiennes, was a Holand is
confirmed by the appearance of the Holand arms among
surviving Fiennes family armaments. Also a John Holand
appears in conjunction with a property settlement made by
Roger Fiennes when Roger and Elizabeth's daughter, Margaret
Fiennes, married a Lewknor. At the date of this conveyance,
the younger Sir John Holand, then Earl of Huntiongdon, was
still very much alive,
I'd appreciate any comments on this matter. Best always,
Douglas Richardson
P.S. You may contact me by e-mail at either of these
addresses:
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Douglas Richardson
Northamptonshire, I inadvertedly erred when I stated that
Margaret, daughter of Roger and Elizabeth (Holand) Fiennes,
of Hurstmonceux, Sussex, married a Lewknor. Margaret
Fiennes actually married Nicholas Carew, of Beddington,
Surrey. I apologize for the misstatement, Best always,
Douglas Richardson
Douglas Richardson
John Holand. In 1422, the King granted to "the king's
knight John Holand ... the keeping and office of Clifbailly,
co. Northampton ... as Nicholas Merbury had in his life."
[Reference: Calendar of Patent ROlls, 1416-1422, pg. 428].
I originally assumed that this Sir John Holand was John
Holand, Jr., who later became Earl of Huntingdon and Duke of
Exeter. But, Faris shows that the Earl was taken prisoner
in France in 1420, where he remained for five years.
Is there another Sir John Holand floating around England in
this time period? If so, this record is the only indication
I have located so far of an unidentified Sir John Holand in
or near Northamptonshire.
All for now. Best always, Douglas Richardson
My e-mail addresses:
U...@aol.com
anon...@web.remarq.com writes:
<<
Is there another Sir John Holand floating around England in
this time period? If so, this record is the only indication
I have located so far of an unidentified Sir John Holand in
or near Northamptonshire.
>>
I realize this is not much, but I have:
--John de Holand, Duke of Exeter, m. to Anne Stafford. They had a dau. Anne
who m. John Neville [Lord Nevill, d. in battle bef. 16 March 1449/50] bef.
Feb. 1440/1. [ Sorry, no sources]
Always optimistic--Dave
L.W.R. Potter
Is it possible that the office was purely nominal, and what was at
issue was the income from the office? Certainly that would have aided
the payment of John's ransom and his release.
Luke
On Sat, 14 Aug 1999, Douglas Richardson wrote:
> I have located a record pertaining to an unidentified Sir
> John Holand. In 1422, the King granted to "the king's
> knight John Holand ... the keeping and office of Clifbailly,
> co. Northampton ... as Nicholas Merbury had in his life."
> [Reference: Calendar of Patent ROlls, 1416-1422, pg. 428].
>
> I originally assumed that this Sir John Holand was John
> Holand, Jr., who later became Earl of Huntingdon and Duke of
> Exeter. But, Faris shows that the Earl was taken prisoner
> in France in 1420, where he remained for five years.
>
> Is there another Sir John Holand floating around England in
> this time period? If so, this record is the only indication
> I have located so far of an unidentified Sir John Holand in
> or near Northamptonshire.
>
Douglas Richardson
Thanks for the suggestion that the grant of the Clifbailly
office to Sir John Holand might have been made to raise
money to pay for his ransom in France. That's a good
suggestion. One way to prove this idea would be to see when
Sir John relinquished the office. Presumably it
happened at the time of his death or his return from France.
Also, it would be good to see if the Earl was called
"king's knight" in other records. The Sir John who had the
Clifbailly office was specifically called "king's knight."
All for now. Best regards, Douglas Richardson
Douglas Richardson
someone stated that her mother, Margaret Beauchamp, widow of
John Beaufort, Duke of Somerset, resided as a widow on one
of the Holand estates ... specifically naming Maxey Castle
in Northamptonshire.
Does anyone know where Maxey Castle was/is in
Northamptonshire? Also, which member of the Holand family
lived there? I presume the two Sir John Holands about whom
I posted last week resided there. Is that correct?
So far my posts about Sir John Holand of Northamptonshire
have elicited limited response. However, I know there are
several people who post on the board who descend from Sir
John, Sr's daughter, Elizabeth Holand, wife of Roger
Fiennes. Can we get some participation going here, so we
can resolve the matter of the identity of the two Sir John
Holand's of Northamptonshire? I believe this long standing
riddle can be easily resolved.
Best always, Douglas Richardson
E-mail address: douglasr...@hotmail.com
Leslie Mahler
Douglas Richardson wrote:
> In a post this week regarding Margaret Beaufort, I see
> someone stated that her mother, Margaret Beauchamp, widow of
> John Beaufort, Duke of Somerset, resided as a widow on one
> of the Holand estates ... specifically naming Maxey Castle
> in Northamptonshire.
This is interesting because as I recall, Margaret Beauchamp was
supposedly the
daughter of (Edith?) Stourton. Perhaps this information implies that her
mother
was actually from the Holand family.
>
> Does anyone know where Maxey Castle was/is in
> Northamptonshire? Also, which member of the Holand family
> lived there? I presume the two Sir John Holands about whom
> I posted last week resided there. Is that correct?
If I ever have a chance, I'll have to check further on this location,
since I have a descent from the St John / Beauchamp marriage.
Leslie
Douglas Richardson
Thanks for your post regarding Margaret (Beauchamp) (St.
John) Beaufort, Duchess of Somerset, and her residence at
the Holand residence of Maxey Castle, co. Northampton.
To answer your question, no, Margaret Beauchamp's mother was
NOT Margaret Holand. Her mother was definitely Edith
Stourton. Dr. Faris and I went round and round about this
matter until Dr. Faris finally found evidence which proved
conclusively that Edith Stourton was the mother. Edith
married (2nd) Robert Shottesbrook, by whom she had another
daughter. Descendants of the Shottesbrook marriage were
known to be kin to King Henry VII through his grandmother,
Margaret (Beauchamp) (St. John) Beaufort. You may also wish
to consult Roskell who has good biographies of Edith
Stourton's two brothers, both of whom were members of
Parliament.
Incidentally, in addition to my work on the Fiennes and
Holand families, I'm also working on the Beauchamp line for
the forthcoming Magna Carta book. I suggest you contact me
by e-mail and we can exchange information.
Best always, Douglas Richardson
E-mail address: douglasrichardson@hotmail,com
P.S. When you contact me, please do me the favor of sending
me what you have on the ancestry of Oliver St. John, the
first husband of Margaret Beauchamp. Thanks!
Tim Powys-Lybbe
Leslie Mahler <lma...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>
> Douglas Richardson wrote:
>
> > In a post this week regarding Margaret Beaufort, I see
> > someone stated that her mother, Margaret Beauchamp, widow of
> > John Beaufort, Duke of Somerset, resided as a widow on one
> > of the Holand estates ... specifically naming Maxey Castle
> > in Northamptonshire.
>
> This is interesting because as I recall, Margaret Beauchamp was
> supposedly the
> daughter of (Edith?) Stourton. Perhaps this information implies that her
> mother
> was actually from the Holand family.
>
The connection was to John Beaufort's mother who was a Margaret Holland,
dau of Thos, Earl of Kent.
> >
> > Does anyone know where Maxey Castle was/is in
> > Northamptonshire? Also, which member of the Holand family
> > lived there? I presume the two Sir John Holands about whom
> > I posted last week resided there. Is that correct?
>
> If I ever have a chance, I'll have to check further on this location,
> since I have a descent from the St John / Beauchamp marriage.
There is a village called Maxey now in Cambridgeshire (the borders move
a bit) on the border with Northamptonshire, a few miles north of
Peterborough. Half a mile away is a hamlet called Catle End. Sounds like
the castle might have been one of those slighted by Cromwell's merry
men.
>
> Leslie
>
--
Tim Powys-Lybbe t...@southfrm.demon.co.uk
For a patchwork of bygones: www.southfrm.demon.co.uk