Complete Peerage Correction: Sir Edmund Sheffield's mother, Margaret Zouche
Douglas Richardson
Complete Peerage, 11 (1949): 661 (sub Sheffield) identifies the
parentage of Sir Edmund Sheffield, 1st Lord Sheffield (died 1549) as
follows:
"Edmund Sheffield, of Butterwick [ was] .... son and heir of Sir
Robert Sheffield, who died 15 Nov. 1531, by his 1st wife, Jane,
daughter of George [Stanley], Lord Strange ..."
While it it true that Sir Robert Sheffield's first wife was Jane (or
Joan) Stanley, there is no evidence that Jane was the mother of his
son and heir, Sir Edmund Sheffield.
Evidence that Sir Robert Sheffield married (1st) Joan (or Jane)
Stanley is found in two sources:
1. 1567 Visitation of Lancaster, Erle of Derby/Stanley pedigrees
state:
“Jane [Stanley], maryed to … Sheffeild of the Isle of
Axham.” [Reference: Flower, Vis. of Lancaster 1567 (Chetham Soc. 81)
(1870): 78–79].
2. Jane "now wife of Robert Sheffield, Esquire" is styled "sister" in
the the undated will of Thomas Stanley, 2nd Earl of Derby [Reference:
Nicolas, Testamenta Vetusta 2 (1826): 589–590]. This will may be
viewed at the following weblink:
Complete Peerage correctly notes that the will of Thomas Stanley is
undated, but implies it was written close to Thomas Stanley's death in
1521, which was the year of Sir Edmund Sheffield's birth.
But an examination of the list of witnesses named in Thomas Stanley's
will indicates that the will was written some time in the period,
1514-1519, which was some years before Sir Edmund Sheffield's birth.
As such the will of Thomas Stanley can not be used as evidence that
his sister, Jane Stanley, was the mother of Sir Edmund Sheffield.
So who was Edmund Sheffield's mother? Contemporary records indicate
that Edmund Sheffield's father, Sir Robert Sheffield, had a second
wife, Margaret Zouche, daughter of John Zouche, Esq., of Codnor,
Derbyshire, by Eleanor, daughter of John Saint John, K.B., of Bletsoe,
Bedfordshire. Margaret Zouche was a near kinswoman of King Henry VII
of England, they being 1st cousins once removed, by virtue of their
common descent from Margaret Beauchamp, wife of Oliver Saint John,
Knt., and John Beaufort, K.G., Duke of Somerset. Following Sir Robert
Sheffield's death in 1531, Margaret Zouche married (2nd) before 1538
Sir John Candishe (or Cavendishe), of Melwood (in Owston),
Lincolnshire. Margaret was living as late c.1554/7, when she was
legatee in the undated will of her sister, Cecily Zouche, who
bequeathed her 20 marks of money, a silver piece, and a ring of gold
[Reference: Registered will of Cecily Zouche proved 24 Sept. 1557,
Consistory Court of Lincoln, Will Register 1557, vol. 2, pg. 112,
available on FHL Microfilm 198815].
That Margaret Zouche, not Jane Stanley, was the mother of Sir Edmund
Sheffield can be proven by Edmund Sheffield's own will dated 20 May
1544, proved 10 May 1549/50, in which he directly refers to his mother
as Margaret Caundishe and likewise leaves legacies to his maiden
aunts, Agnes Zouche (a nun at Sempringham) and Cecily Zouche
[Reference: Registered will of Edmund Sheffield, Prerogative Court of
Canterbury, 6 Coode, proved 10 May 1549/50, available on FHL Microfilm
91924].
Elsewhere I find that in letters dated 1538 Sir Edmund Sheffield
referred to Margaret Zouche's second husband, Sir John Candishe, as
his step father/father-in-law [Reference: Gairdner, Letters & Papers,
Foreign & Domestic, Henry VIII 13(1) (1892): 522]. These letters may
be found at the following weblink:
Curiously, all of the early sources published before 1900 on the
Sheffield family that I've consulted so far all identify Margaret
Zouche as the mother of Sir Edmund Sheffield, not Jane Stanley. See,
for example, Gentleman’s Magazine, n.s. 3 (1810): 34–36; Grace,
Memoirs of the Family of Grace (1823): 57–61; Burke, General &
Heraldic Dict. of the Peerages of England, Ireland & Scotland (1831):
483–485 (sub Sheffield).
So what went wrong?
It's hard to tell but it appears that Jane Stanley was first
identified as the mother of Sir Edmund Sheffield in the Dictionary of
National Biography and that Complete Peerage subsequently followed
that identification. Unfortunately, while the editor of Complete
Peerage was aware that Sir Edmund Sheffield left a will, apparently
the will itself was not examined when preparing the Sheffield family
account in Complete Peerage. Had that will been examined, then almost
certainly the error regarding Edmund Sheffield's mother's identity
would have been averted.
In a related vein, I note that Complete Peerage elsewhere states in
its Kildare account that another of Sir Edmund Sheffield's aunts,
Elizabeth Zouche, wife of Gerard Fitz Gerald, 9th Earl of Kildare, was
the daughter of Sir John Zouche, of Codnor, co. Derby, by his wife,
Elizabeth Saint John [see Complete Peerage, 7 (1929): 234 (sub
Kildare)]. My research indicates, however, that John Zouche was
never knighted but was only an esquire. Also, John Zouche's wife was
named Eleanor Saint John, not Elizabeth Saint John. Following John
Zouche's death in 1501, Eleanor Saint John married (2nd) Sir John
Melton, of Aston, Yorkshire. She died 10 Feb. 1518/9 [References:
Baker, Hist. & Antiqs. of Northampton, 1 (1822–30): 673 (Melton
pedigree); Flower Vis. of Yorkshire 1563–4 (H.S.P. 16) (1881): 202–203
(Melton pedigree); Margaret Bowker, An Episcopal Court Book for the
diocese of Lincoln, 1514-1520 (Lincoln Rec. Soc. 61): 84, 86; National
Archives, C 1/599/55].
Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah
Douglas Richardson
I stated in an earlier post that Eleanor Saint John, wife successively
of John Zouche, Esq., and John Melton, Knt., died 10 Feb. 1518/9.
Her correct death date is 12 Feb. 1518/19 [Reference: Baker, History
& Antiqs. of Northampton, 1 (1822–30): 673 (Melton pedigree)].
Administration on her estate was granted 19 March 1518/9 to her son,
David Zouche and daughter, Cecily Zouche [Reference: Bowker, Episcopal
Court Book for the Diocese of Lincoln, 1514–1520 (Lincoln Rec. Soc.
61) (1967): 84].
Eleanor Saint John was the maternal grandmother of Sir Edmund
Sheffield, 1st Lord Sheffield (died 1549), the subject of my original
post. Eleanor Saint John was a first cousin to King Henry VII of
England.
CE Wood
of John la Zouche as Elizabeth Saint John. What is the reference for
calling her Eleanor?
CE Wood
On Nov 15, 5:54 pm, Douglas Richardson <royalances...@msn.com> wrote:
> Dear Newsgroup ~
Douglas Richardson
< Before it was taken off-line, I noted that CP VII:234 named the wife
< of John la Zouche as Elizabeth Saint John. What is the reference
for
< calling her Eleanor?
<
< CE Wood
Dear Carolyn ~
I've already commented on this error in Complete Peerage. Actually
there are several references to Eleanor Saint John, some of which I've
previously listed.
But here are three more. The first reference shows her first marriage
to John Zouche. The second item shows her 2nd marriage to John
Melton. The third item identifies Eleanor as the surviving wife and
co-executrix of her 1st husband, John Zouche, Esq.
1. 1613 Vis. of Huntingdon (Camden Soc. 43) (1849): 2 (St. John
pedigree: “Eleonora [St. John], uxor Joh’is Zouche de Codnor”). This
item may be viewed at the following weblink:
2. 1563–4 Vis. of Yorkshire (H.S.P. 16) (1881): 202–203 (Melton ped.:
“Sir John Melton [1] = Ales doughter of Sir John Stanley of the Pype,
[2] = Elenor doughter of …. St. John that maryed …. doughter of …..
Bradshaw, [and widow of] …. Sowche.”). This item may be viewed at the
following weblink:
http://books.google.com/books?id=pjMEAAAAIAAJ&pg=PA203&dq=Ales+doughter+of+Sir+John+Stanley+of+the+Pype#v=onepage&q=Ales
doughter of Sir John Stanley of the Pype&f=false
3. National Archives, C 1/599/55 (abs. of doc. available online at
http://www.catalogue.nationalarchives.gov.uk/search.asp).
Chancery Proceeding dated 1518–1529: David, son of John Zouche, Esq.,
of Codnor, sued John Saint John, Knt., and Richard Burton, Esq.,
feoffees to uses regarding refusal to convey parcel of the manors of
Westoning, Bedfordshire, Benefield, Northamptonshire, and Codnor (in
Heanor), Heanor, and Loscoe, Derbyshire as devised by complainant’s
said father, whose executors are the said Richard and Eleanor, late
wife of the testator.
Also, there appears to be an inquisition post mortem for Eleanor
(Saint John) (Zouche) Melton dated 11 Henry 8 [1519-20], which names
her son and heir as being Sir John Zouch, then aged 30 and more. The
inquisition is cited by Baker, History & Antiqs. of Northampton, 1
(1822–30): 673 (Melton pedigree).
The confusion over Eleanor Saint John's given name appears to have
occurred due to her aunt, Elizabeth Saint John, having been married to
William la Zouche, Lord Zouche and Seymour. As such, a Saint John
niece and her aunt married a Zouche nephew and uncle respectively. It
would appear that Eleanor's given name was carelessly confused with
that of her aunt, Elizabeth, both of which ladies married Zouche men.
CE Wood
CE Wood
On Nov 17, 1:38 pm, Douglas Richardson <royalances...@msn.com> wrote:
> On Nov 17, 12:57 pm, CE Wood <wood...@msn.com> wrote:
> < Before it was taken off-line, I noted that CP VII:234 named the wife
> < of John la Zouche as Elizabeth Saint John. What is the reference
> for
> < calling her Eleanor?
> <
> < CE Wood
>
> Dear Carolyn ~
>
> I've already commented on this error in Complete Peerage. Actually
> there are several references to Eleanor Saint John, some of which I've
> previously listed.
>
> But here are three more. The first reference shows her first marriage
> to John Zouche. The second item shows her 2nd marriage to John
> Melton. The third item identifies Eleanor as the surviving wife and
> co-executrix of her 1st husband, John Zouche, Esq.
>
> 1. 1613 Vis. of Huntingdon (Camden Soc. 43) (1849): 2 (St. John
> pedigree: “Eleonora [St. John], uxor Joh’is Zouche de Codnor”). This
> item may be viewed at the following weblink:
>
> http://books.google.com/books?id=aRQpAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA2&lpg=PA2&dq=Johan...
>
> 2. 1563–4 Vis. of Yorkshire (H.S.P. 16) (1881): 202–203 (Melton ped.:
> “Sir John Melton [1] = Ales doughter of Sir John Stanley of the Pype,
> [2] = Elenor doughter of …. St. John that maryed …. doughter of …..
> Bradshaw, [and widow of] …. Sowche.”). This item may be viewed at the
> following weblink:
>
> http://books.google.com/books?id=pjMEAAAAIAAJ&pg=PA203&dq=Ales+dought...
> doughter of Sir John Stanley of the Pype&f=false
>
> 3. National Archives, C 1/599/55 (abs. of doc. available online athttp://www.catalogue.nationalarchives.gov.uk/search.asp).
Douglas Richardson
I checked the National Archives just now and found the citations for
the inquisition post mortem records for Eleanor (Saint John) (Zouche)
Melton which are mentioned by Baker:
C 142/34/81 Melton, Eleanor: Northampton 11 Hen. VIII.
E 150/683/4 Melton, Eleanor: Northampton 11 Hen VIII.
wjhonson
>
> 2. 1563–4 Vis. of Yorkshire (H.S.P. 16) (1881): 202–203 (Melton ped.:
> “Sir John Melton [1] = Ales doughter of Sir John Stanley of the Pype,
> [2] = Elenor doughter of …. St. John that maryed …. doughter of …..
> Bradshaw, [and widow of] …. Sowche.”). This item may be viewed at the
> following weblink:
>
> http://books.google.com/books?id=pjMEAAAAIAAJ&pg=PA203&dq=Ales+dought...
> doughter of Sir John Stanley of the Pype&f=false
>
>
> Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah
The link you gave above is a link to your 100-page search results.
The correct link directly to the page in question is
http://books.google.com/books?id=pjMEAAAAIAAJ&pg=PA203
That is, Page 203 of the book.
Will
Douglas Richardson
Thanks for providing the correct link. Much appreciated.
DR
Douglas Richardson
Checking the internet for helpful material on the Zouche family of
Codnor, Derbyshire, I have encountered an interesting account of a
challenge to the array of jurors dated c.1571 because the then sheriff
of the county, Sir John Zouche, of Codnor, who had arrayed the jury in
question, happened to be related to the plaintiff, John Manners. This
material can be found in the book, Joseph Chitty, A Practical Treatise
on the Criminal Law 4 (1819): 299. It may be viewed at the following
weblink:
In the challenge, a pedigree was set forth which alleged that the two
parties were related in the 6th and 8th degrees of kindred as follows:
1. William, Lord Roos.
2. Elizabeth de Roos.
3. William, Lord Zouche.
4. Alan, Lord Zouche.
5. William, Lord Zouche.
6. John Zouche, Esq.
7. John Zouche, Knt.
8. George Zouche, Esq.
9. John Zouche, Knt., Sheriff of Derbyshire, 1571-1572.
1. William, Lord Roos.
2. William, Lord Roos.
4. Thomas, Lord Roos.
5. Eleanor Roos.
5. George Manners, Knt.
6. Thomas Manners, Earl of Rutland.
7. John Manners.
The alleged pedigree correctly states that both men descend from
William de Roos, 2nd Lord Roos of Helmsley, died 1343. However, the
actual descent for Sir John Zouche, the Sheriff, runs as follows:
1. William de Roos, 2nd Lord Roos of Helmsley, died 1343.
2. Elizabeth de Roos, married William la Zouche, 2nd Lord Zouche of
Harringworth.
3. William la Zouche, 3rd Lord Zouche of Harringworth, married Agnes
Greene.
4. William la Zouche, 4th Lord Zouche of Harringworth, married
Elizabeth (?Crosse).
5. John Zouche, Esq., of Bulwick, Northamptonshire, living 1445,
married Elizabeth Grey.
6. John Zouche, Esq., of Codnor, Derbyshire, died 1501, married
Eleanor Saint John.
7. John Zouche, Knt., of Codnor, Derbyshire, married Margaret
Willoughby.
8. George Zouche, Esq., of Codnor, Derbyshire, died 1557, married Anne
Gainsford.
9. John Zouche, Knt., Sheriff of Derbyshire, 1571-1572.
I might note that the alleged pedigree for John Manners is missing a
generation. Thus the two men were actually related in the 7th and 8th
degrees of kindred, not 6th and 8th as alleged.
I find it astonishing that such a remote kinship between the sheriff
and the plaintiff would cause a panel of jurors to be quashed, but the
published item specfically states that the challenge to the jurors was
found to be true and that the panel was "quashed and removed."
Genealogy mattered then and now it seems.