Is Lady Godiva an ancestor of Queen Elizabeth II ?
Sam Sloan
http://www.rootsweb.com/~nwa/godiva.html
That Queen Elizabeth II is a descendant of King Harold II who was defeated
by William the Conquerer in 1066 and that King Harold II was the
great-grandson of Lady Godiva.
However, I feel that this is wrong. I believe that Lady Godiva was not the
great-grandmother of King Harold II but that she was the grandmother of his
wife, Queen Ealdgyth (1034-1086). Also, I only show King Harold II as
having two sons, Ulf and Harold, and I cannot find descendants of either of
them.
Who is correct? Any opinions?
Sam Sloan
http://worldconnect.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=GET&db=sloanbig&id=I1373
0
The...@aol.com
Hello Sam,
On the subject of Godgifu or Godiva as ancestress of
Harold II (Godwinsson) of England, this is not correct. She was
evidently an ancestress of his wife, Ealdgyth or Edith, daughter
of Alfgar of Mercia. However, this is not a line from Godgifu to
Elizabeth II of the United Kingdom (or anyone else I know of), as
Harold's daughter Gytha ('gateway' to descents claimed from Harold
Godwinsson) was his daughter by his mistress, often referred to as
'Edith Swan-neck'.
As to Harold II being ancestor of Elizabeth II of England,
that identification is accurate. The pedigree from Harold
II down to Lionel 'of Antwerp', Duke of Clarence and son
of Edward III of England and Philippa of Hainault [both
descendants of Harold II] is given below. Lionel, Duke
of Clarence, and three of his brothers (John of Gaunt,
Edmund of Langley and Thomas of Woodstock) are all
ancestors of Elizabeth II of the United Kingdom, and a
good many more (royal and commons) besides.
Hope this is helpful.
John *
__________________________
1 Harold Godwinsson
----------------------------------------
Death: 14 Oct 1066, Battle of Hastings[1]
Occ: King of England 1066
Father: Godwin
Mother: Gytha Thorgilsdotter
Earl [Ealdorman] of Wessex, and chief supporter of King Edward
'the Confessor'
made King after Edward's death, coronation 6 Jan 1066
defeated Harald Haardrade of Norway (and his brother Tostig) at
Stamford Bridge, 25 Sept 1066
Marched to Hastings, where he was defeated and slain by William the
Conqueror, 14 Oct 1066[1]
Spouse: Edith 'of the Swan-Neck'
Children: Gytha
Other Spouses Ealdgyth [Edith] of Mercia
1.1 Gytha Haroldsdotter
----------------------------------------
fled from England to the court of Sweyn Estrithsson, King of Denmark;
thence to Russia (m. to Vladimir in 'mid-1070's' acc. to Andrew S.
Kalinkin[2], citing the Full Collection of Russian Chronicles)
identified as daughter of Harold Godwinsson, incl. evidently Moriarty,
'Descent from Harold Godwinson', The American Genealogist 33 (Jul
1957), 188 [ref. provided by John P. DuLong]
Spouse: Vladimir 'Monomakh' of Kiev
Death: 19 May 1125[2]
Father: Vsevolod of Kiev (-1093)
Marr: bef 1076
Children: Mstislav-Harold (1076-1132)
1.1.1 Mstislav-Harold of Kiev
----------------------------------------
Birth: 1076[2]
Death: 15 Apr 1132[2]
Burial: Church of St. Fyodor, Kiev[2]
Occ: Grand Duke of Kiev 1125-1132
prince of Novgorod 1097-1125
Spouse: Christina of Sweden
Death: 18 Jan 1122[2]
Father: Inge Stenkilsson of Sweden (-1111)
Mother: Helena
Marr: ca 1095[2]
Children: Euphrosyne (-1176)
1.1.1.1 Euphrosyne of Kiev
----------------------------------------
Death: 1176
Spouse: Geza II of Hungary
Death: 1160
Father: Bela II of Hungary (-1141)
Mother: Helena of Serbia (->1146)
Children: Stephen III (-1173)
Bela III (-1196)
1.1.1.1.1a Bela III of Hungary*
----------------------------------------
Death: 1196
Occ: King of Hungary 1173-1196
sent to Constantinople under treaty of 1164 [under which he was
recognized as heir]
In 1167, the Byzantine Emperor Manuel planned
'... to marry prince Bela, who had been given the name of Alexius
in Constantinople, to his daughter and to make him his heir, thus
securing the union of Hungary with the Empire... However, the birth
of a son [1168] compelled the Emperor to abandon this plan which
had roused great opposition in Constantinople, but he succeeded in
placing his favourite Bela-Alexius on the Hungarian throne after
the death of Stephen II, and in this way secured his influence in
Hungary. ' [Ostrogorsky, p. 388][3]
he m. lstly Margaret of France
Spouse: Anne of Chatillon
Father: Reynald of Chatillon (-1187)
Mother: Constance of Antioch (-1163)
Marr: 1168
Children: Andrew II (-1235)
Other Spouses Margaret of France
1.1.1.1.1a.1a Andrew II of Hungary*
----------------------------------------
Death: 1235[4]
Occ: King of Hungary 1201-1235
Spouse: Gertrude of Meran
Death: 1213[4]
Father: Berthold IV of Meran (-1204)
Mother: Agnes von Groitzsch (-1185)
Children: Bela IV (-1270)
Other Spouses Yolande of Courtenay
1.1.1.1.1a.1a.1 Bela IV of Hungary
----------------------------------------
Death: 3 May 1270[5]
Occ: King of Hungary 1235-1270
Spouse: Maria Lascaris
Death: 1270[5]
Father: Theodore Lascaris (1173-1222), Emperor at Nicaea
Mother: Anna Angelina
Marr: 1218[5]
Children: Stephen V (-1272)
1.1.1.1.1a.1a.1.1 Stephen V of Hungary
----------------------------------------
Death: 1272
Occ: King of Hungary 1270-1272
Spouse: Elizabeth of the Kumans
Father: Kuthen, Khan of the Kumans
Children: Maria
1.1.1.1.1a.1a.1.1.1 Maria of Hungary
----------------------------------------
Spouse: Charles II 'of Salerno' of Naples
Death: 1309
Father: Charles of Anjou (1227-1285)
Mother: Beatrice of Provence (1231-)
Children: Margaret
1.1.1.1.1a.1a.1.1.1.1 Margaret of Naples
----------------------------------------
Spouse: Charles of Valois
Death: 1325
Father: Philip III 'le Hardi' of France (1245-1285)
Mother: Isabella of Aragon (-1271)
Children: Jeanne (-1342)
Philip VI
Charles
1.1.1.1.1a.1b Andrew II of Hungary* (See above)
----------------------------------------
Spouse: Yolande of Courtenay
Father: Pierre de Courtenay
Mother: Yolande of Flanders (-1219)
Children: Yolande (-1251)
Other Spouses Gertrude of Meran
1.1.1.1.1a.1b.1 Yolande of Hungary
----------------------------------------
Death: 12 Oct 1251, Huesca, Aragon[6]
Spouse: Jaime (James) 'el Conquistador' of Aragon
Birth: ca 1208[7]
Death: 25 Jul 1276, Valencia, Aragon[6]
Father: Pedro II 'el Catolico' of Aragon (-1213)
Mother: Marie of Montpellier (1182-1213)
Marr: 8 Sep 1235, Barcelona, Catalonia[6]
Children: Isabella (-1271)
1.1.1.1.1a.1b.1.1 Isabella of Aragon
----------------------------------------
Death: 28 Jan 1271, Cosenza, Italy[6]
Spouse: Philip III 'le Hardi' of France
Birth: 1 May 1245, Poissy, France[6]
Death: 5 Oct 1285, Perpignan, France[6]
Father: Louis IX (St. Louis) of France (1214-1270)
Mother: Margaret of Provence (1221-1295)
Children: Philip IV 'le Bel' (1268-1314)
Charles (-1325)
1.1.1.1.1a.1b.1.1.1 Philip IV 'le Bel' of France
----------------------------------------
Birth: 1268[6]
Death: 29 Nov 1314, Fontainebleau[8]
Occ: King of France 1285-1314
Spouse: Jeanne I of Navarre
Birth: Jan 1272[8]
Death: 2 Apr 1305[8]
Father: Henry 'the Fat' of Navarre (-1274)
Mother: Blanche of Artois (-1302)
Marr: 16 Aug 1284[6]
Children: Isabella (1295-1358)
Louis X (-1316)
Philip V (-1322)
Charles IV (-1328)
1.1.1.1.1a.1b.1.1.1.1 Isabella of France
----------------------------------------
Birth: 1295[9]
Death: 22 Aug 1358, Castle Rising, Norfolk
Burial: Grey Friars, London
Spouse: Edward II 'of Caernarvon' of England
Birth: 25 Apr 1284, prob. Caernarvon, Wales[9]
Death: 1327, murdered (instigation of wife Isabella & Roger de
Mortimer)[9]
Father: Edward I 'Longshanks' of England (1239-1307)
Mother: Eleanor of Castile (1241-1290)
Marr: 25 Jan 1308[9]
Children: Edward III (1312-1377)
John (1316-1336)
Eleanor (1318-)
Joan (1321-)
1.1.1.1.1a.1b.1.1.1.1.1 Edward III of England
----------------------------------------
Birth: 13 Nov 1312, Windsor Castle, England[9]
Death: 21 Jun 1377, Sheen Palace, Surrey, England[9]
Burial: Westminster Abbey, London
Occ: King of England 1327-1377
made King of England by act of Parliament, 7 Jan 1326/7
coronation on 1 February 1326/7
led a small force at Nottingham castle 18 October 1330, seizing Roger
de Mortimer and taking power
Spouse: Philippa of Hainault
Birth: 24 Jun 1311[9]
Death: 15 Aug 1369[9]
Father: William III of Hainault (ca1286-1337)
Mother: Jeanne of Valois (-1342)
Children: Edward 'the Black Prince' (1330-1376)
Lionel 'of Antwerp' (1338-1368)
John'of Gaunt' (~1340-~1398)
Edmund 'of Langley'
William (<1348-<1348)
Thomas 'of Woodstock' (1355-1397)
Isabel (1332-)
Joan (ca1335-1348)
Blanche (1342-1342)
Mary (1344-ca1361)
Margaret (1346->1361)
1.1.1.1.1a.1b.1.1.1.1.1.1 Lionel 'of Antwerp' of England
----------------------------------------
Birth: 29 Nov 1338, Antwerp, Flanders[9]
Death: 17 Oct 1368, Alba, county of Savoy, Italy[9]
Occ: Duke of Clarence 1362-1368
2nd surviving son
Earl of Ulster de jure uxoris
Governor of Ireland, 1361-1364, 1363-1365, 1367
created Duke of Clarence, 1362[10]
Spouse: Elizabeth de Burgh
Birth: 6 Jul 1332[9]
Death: 10 Dec 1363[9]
Father: William de Burgh (1312-1333)
Mother: Maud of Lancaster (-1377)
Marr: 9 Sep 1342
Children: Philippa (1355-<1379)
1.1.1.1.1a.1b.1.1.2 Charles of Valois
----------------------------------------
Death: 1325
Occ: Count of Valois
Spouse: Margaret of Naples
Father: Charles II 'of Salerno' of Naples (-1309)
Mother: Maria of Hungary
Children: Jeanne (-1342)
Philip VI
Charles
1.1.1.1.1a.1b.1.1.2.1 Jeanne of Valois
----------------------------------------
Death: 1342[11]
Spouse: William III of Hainault
Birth: ca 1286
Death: 7 Jun 1337
Father: John II of Hainault (1247-1304)
Mother: Philippa of Luxembourg (-1311)
Marr: 1305[11]
Children: William IV (-1345)
Margaret (-1356)
Philippa (1311-1369)
1.1.1.1.1a.1b.1.1.2.1.1 Philippa of Hainault
----------------------------------------
Birth: 24 Jun 1311[9]
Death: 15 Aug 1369[9]
Burial: Westminster Abbey, London
Spouse: Edward III of England
Birth: 13 Nov 1312, Windsor Castle, England[9]
Death: 21 Jun 1377, Sheen Palace, Surrey, England[9]
Father: Edward II 'of Caernarvon' of England (1284-1327)
Mother: Isabella of France (1295-1358)
Children: [SEE ABOVE]
1.1.1.1.1b Bela III of Hungary* (See above)
----------------------------------------
Spouse: Margaret of France[12]
Birth: bef Aug 1158[12]
Father: Louis VII of France (-1180)
Mother: Constance of Castile (-1160)
Marr: 1186
Other Spouses Anne of Chatillon
1. "William the Conqueror," David C. Douglas, Univ of California
Press, 1964 (1st of English Monarchs series).
2. Andrew S. Kalinkin, "Vladimir Monomakh's Family," Nov 24, 2000,
GEN-MED...@rootsweb.com.
3. "History of the Byzantine State," George Ostrogorsky (trans.
Joan Hussey), Rutgers Univ. Press, 1969.
4. Paul Theroff, "House of Wittelsbach," Paul Theroff's Dynastic
Genealogy Files,
worldroots.clicktron.com/brigitte/theroff/witlsbc.txt
corrections (Ekkehard I & c.) at
.pages.prodigy.net/ptheroff/gotha/wit1.html.
5. The Genealogist, Lindsay L. Brook, "The Byzantine Ancestry of
H.R.H. Prince Charles, Prince of Wales," Spring 1981, 2, No. 1,
pp. 3-51.
6. D. Spencer Hines, "Isabella de France (1292-1358) 'Braveheart
Princess' Ahnenreihe," May 9, 1999, GEN-MED...@rootsweb.com.
7. "The Medieval Crown of Aragon," T. N. Bisson, Oxford University
Press (Clarendon), 1986 (1991 Paperback).
8. Paul Theroff, "The House of Champagne-Blois," Paul Theroff's
Dynastic Genealogy Files,
worldroots.clicktron.com/brigitte/theroff/
9. "Plantagenet Ancestry of Seventeenth-Century Colonists," David
Faris, New England Historic Genealogical Society, 2nd edition,
1999.
10. "The Complete Peerage," G. E. Cokayne, 1910 -
The Complete Peerage of England Scotland Ireland Great Britain
and the United Kingdom.
11. Paul Theroff, "The Counts of Flanders and Hainault," Paul
Theroff's Dynastic Genealogy Files,
worldroots.clicktron.com/brigitte/theroff/
12. "Henry II," W. L. Warren, University of California Press, 1973,
[English Monarchs Series].
_______________________
* John P. Ravilious
Leo van de Pas
I think you are right and you are wrong. I believe Lady Godiva to be an
ancestor of Queen Elizabeth II, but not via Harold II. Yes, Harold II is
also an ancestor of Elizabeth II but via his mistress, not his wife who is a
descendant of Lady Godiva. I have made a file of several generations of
descendants of Earl Leofric (husband of Lady Godiva) together with brief
biographies. It all adds up to about 100 pages. Anyone interested, let me
know. I will send it to Sam directly.
Best wishes
Leo van de Pas
Betty Owen
----- Original Message -----
From: "Betty Owen" <bro...@wt.net>
To: "Sam Sloan" <sl...@ishipress.com>
Sent: Sunday, December 15, 2002 8:23 PM
Subject: Re: Is Lady Godiva an ancestor of Queen Elizabeth II ?
> Sam,
> ---- I will venture out on this one....
> Lady Godiva was never quoted as far as I know as his grandmother. Yes he
did
> marry her granddaughter...
> but I beleive the recorded off spring is from edith swanneck his danish
> wife (a woman he was with for 20 years) it is in my oponion he married
only
> for polical reasons to align two powerful houses in England.
> ----
> I think I have read Ealdgyth may have also had a child but I am not sure
> anything is recorded as to his childern.
> ----------------
> It is Edith's child who married into Russia and that bloodline came around
> many centuries later.
>
>
> Betty
>
Todd A. Farmerie
> 1.1.1 Mstislav-Harold of Kiev
> ----------------------------------------
> Birth: 1076[2]
> Death: 15 Apr 1132[2]
> Burial: Church of St. Fyodor, Kiev[2]
> Occ: Grand Duke of Kiev 1125-1132
>
> prince of Novgorod 1097-1125
>
> Spouse: Christina of Sweden
> Death: 18 Jan 1122[2]
> Father: Inge Stenkilsson of Sweden (-1111)
> Mother: Helena
> Marr: ca 1095[2]
>
> Children: Euphrosyne (-1176)
>
> 1.1.1.1 Euphrosyne of Kiev
> ----------------------------------------
> Death: 1176
>
> Spouse: Geza II of Hungary
> Death: 1160
> Father: Bela II of Hungary (-1141)
> Mother: Helena of Serbia (->1146)
Most reputable sources make Euphrosyne daughter of a different
(unnamed) wife of Mstislav.
taf
Matthew Harley
>
> Dear Sam,
>
> I think you are right and you are wrong. I believe Lady Godiva to be an
> ancestor of Queen Elizabeth II, but not via Harold II.
What was the name of the horse?
I always wondered why the British royals had very equine teeth....
Matt Harley
malinda
There is an interesting connection here, which is not mentioned. Our
progenitor Anne of Kiev's brother Vesvolod of Kief, who m. dau. of
Constantine IX (Monomachus), Emperor of the East, became the parents of
Vladimir II of Kiev who m. Gytha, dau of Harold II of England and Ealdgyth
of Mercia, granddau. of Leofric III, Earl of Mercia and Godiva, who were
also the parents of our progenitor, Countess Lucy (Lucia) of Mercia.
J.
Leo van de Pas
of ældgyth of Mercia but of Edith Swanneck, the mistress of Harold II. Lucy
of Mercia is also not a daughter of Leofric and Lady Godiva-----back to the
drawing board :-)
Best wishes
Leo van de Pas
Sam Sloan
van de Pas") wrote:
>Your naughty but Learned Cousin has it wrong-----Gytha is not the daughter
>of ældgyth of Mercia but of Edith Swanneck, the mistress of Harold II. Lucy
>of Mercia is also not a daughter of Leofric and Lady Godiva-----back to the
>drawing board :-)
>Best wishes
>Leo van de Pas
>
One thing which confused me for quite a while is that at one place on
the web (I can no longer find the place) she is listed as Edith
Ealdgyth Queen Of ENGLAND who married Harold Godwinsson in 1045.
Since his other wife is listed as Ealdgyth Queen Of ENGLAND they
appear to be the same person.
I was surprised that Ealdgyth was such a common name even in 1066. I
finally decided that it was just a mistake and these are two different
people.
Sam Sloan
janicel...@gmail.com
janicel...@gmail.com
taf
> He married the wife of King Gruffydd Griffith ap Llywelyn ruler of all Wales who is the true line of the King of Judah
taf
P J Evans
wjhonson
taf
Rolled into this was the claim that the British royalty themselves represented the true heirs of the House of David, a claim usually linked to a supposed daughter of the last king fleeing to Egypt, where she married and was taken to Ireland, and then vaguely 'became ancestor of the British royal family'. That is where my morbid curiosity came in - how Gruffydd ap Llywelyn was being made to descend from her (or a relative), let alone uniquely being her heir.
taf
Peter Stewart
often worthwhile to discuss here sources that are not trustworthy.
In this case it is a dreadful indictment of the education system that
people can come through years at school unable to tell the difference
between a story that is fascinating to them and evidence that is
amenable to logic and plausible to common-sense.
Peter Stewart
P J Evans
Hywel ap Cadell = Elen fch Llywarch
Cadell ap Rhodri mawr Llywarch
Rhodri mawr ap Merfyn (d 878) Hyfaidd (Hymeyt)
Merfyn ap Gwriad (d abt 844) Tancosylt (Tancoyst) = Bledri
Gwriad = Esyllt fch Conan Ovel or Eugein
Conan ap Rhodri molwynog (d abt 817) Margetuit
Rhodri molwynog ap Idwal ywrch (d abt 754) Teudos
Idwal ywrch ap Cadwaladr fendigaid (d abt 712) Regin
Cadwaladr fendigaid ap Cadwallon Catgocaun
Cadwallon ap Cadfan Cathem (Caten)
Cadfan ap Iago (d 630s) Cloten
Iago ap Beli (d abt 617) Nougoy
Beli ap Rhun (d abt 599) Arthur (Artor)
Rhun ap Maelgwyn (d abt 586) Petr
Maelgwyn ap Cadwallon (d abt 547) Cincar (Cunocar)
Cadwallon ap Einion Guertepir (Voteporis)
Einion ap Cunedda Aircol (Agricola)
Cunedda ap Edeyrn (Eternus) (d abt 404) Trifun (Tribunus)
Edeyrn ap Padarn (Paternus) Clotri
Padarn ap Tegid (Tacitus) Gloitquin
------------------------ before this it's names, no dates Nimet
Cein Dimet
Guorcein Macsen gwledig (Maximus)
Doli Ytec
Guordoli Ytector
Dumn Ebiud
Gurdumn Eliud
Amguoloyt Stater
Anguerit Pircsmesser
Ouman Constans
Dubun Constantine imperator
Brithguein Helena = Constantius imperator
Eugein Strada 'the fair' = Coel hen
Aballac Gwladys = Cadfan
Amalech Lucius
Beli mawr Coel (Coilus)
Anna Cyllin
Joseph of Arimathea Caradoc
Matthan Bran 'the blessed'
Levi Penardim = Llyr Lediaith
Melchi Joseph of Arimathea
Johanna
Joseph
Mattathias = dau of Simon 'the Just'
| |
to Nathan son of David to Azariah son of Hilkiah
wjhonson
Entirely made up from nothing whatsoever. Not one single solitary, even "traditional" source says any such thing. It was all an invention within the past hundred years.
Old King Coel is a myth. The family line of the Emperor Constantine died out shortly after his reigh. Joseph of Arimathea has no British connection
Doli, Guordoli, Dumn and Gurdumn were invented after one author (ten years ago) had a fever dream in which he saw his supposed dead ancestors speaking to him and then created this line from that cloth.
P J Evans
Have you looked at _The History of the Kings of Britain_, by Geoffrey of Monmouth? A lot of misinformation came from that one.
Peter Stewart
British rulers to ancient Rome rather than to Judah - this particular
nonsense doesn't seem to trace back any earlier than 1840 when a
"prophetic" crank named John Wilson published this:
https://archive.org/details/ourisraelitisho00wilsgoog/page/n4.
Peter Stewart
wjhonson
sba...@mindspring.com
> . . .
Stewart Baldwin
P J Evans
wjhonson
https://www.google.com/books/edition/Lives_of_the_Cambro_British_Saints_of_th/95_8oYW_IfcC?hl=en&gbpv=1&dq=guordoli&pg=PA82&printsec=frontcover
wjhonson
Guor just means something like "after that" i.e. the next person
taf
taf
taf
P J Evans
taf
https://www.bl.uk/manuscripts/Viewer.aspx?ref=cotton_ms_vespasian_a_xiv_f001r
fol. 37v
I am sure you can find someone hanging around here that can get in touch with the author. He will tell you that he was actually the illegitimate son of some king or other, and you can take the opportunity to tell him his Welsh is rubbish.
taf
John Higgins
wjhonson
https://books.google.com/books?id=FlUrAAAAIAAJ&newbks=1&newbks_redir=0&dq=doli%20guordoli&pg=PA66#v=onepage&q=doli%20guordoli&f=false