descent of the BALTHAE DYNASTY of Spain
David Hughes
00. Berig, name in traditional pedigree may be identified with
Boiorix, a Gothic king, d101BC
from whom descends
00. Eterpamara, a Gothic hero in the 1st century AD
from whom descends
01. Nidad, King of the Visi-Goths [ori. name: the Tervingi] 218-249
02. Ovida, co-king 249-273 with his bros Cniva [slew Roman Emperor
Decius 251, father of Respa & Veduca, who ravaged the Balkans in 255,
father of Cannibas, killed vs the Roman Emperor Aurelian in 272] &
Micca [= Soror, sis of Roman Emperor Galerius, father of Roman Emperor
Maximin [II] "Daia"]
03. Ascaric, bro of Ilderic & Ragaise [note: Ilderic, King of
Visi-Goths 273-317, father of Geberic, King of Visi-Goths 317-350,
father of Fridigar, King of Visi-Goths 350-364, father of a dau,
Gaatha, Queen 364-?] [note: Ragaise, father of Ariaric (333), father
of Aoric, father of Alatheus & Saphrax, co-kings 383-?]
04. Vidigoia (Wihtgeat)
05. Wihturic (376), bro of Wihtalac (Wihtleg), father of Wermund "The
Sage", father of Offa (Olauus) (Alavivaz), whose descendants were
called the "Ofdings"
06. Athanaric, King of Visi-Goths ?-383
= Gaatha, Queen (above)
07. [name], sis of ATAULPHO, 1st King of Spain 412-415, her other sis
was wife of Wallia, King of Spain 415-418
= Alaric [I], King of Visi-Goths, sacked Rome 410
08. [name] (dau)
= Teodoredo I, King of Spain 418-451
09. Evarix (Eurich), King of Spain 466-484, bro of Torsmundo, King
451-453, & Teodoredo II, King 453-466
= Ragnahilde
10. Alaric [II], King of Spain 484-507
=1 Arevagna; =2 Thiudigotho
11. Gisela, sis of Gisalac, co-King of Spain 507-511 with half-bro
Amalaric, co-King of Spain 507-531 [sole king after 511]
= Tribigildo, nephew of Theudis, King of Spain 531-548, &, cousin of
Thiudigisclus, King of Spain 548-549, father of Theodimir, King of
Spain 567-571
12. Leovigildo, King of Spain 572-586, bro of Atanagildo, King of
Spain 554-567 [father of Leova I (Liuverico), King of Spain 571-572,
bro of Galswinth [wife of Chilperic I of France] & Brunhilda [wife of
Sigebert I of France]]
=1 Theodosia; =2 Gundsvinta, his bro's widow
13. Ormagildo [Hermenegild II], King of Spain 586 (mur), full-bro of
Recaredo I, King of Spain 586-601, &, half-bro of Witeric, King
603-610, Gundemar, King 610-612, & Sisebuto, King 612-621 [note:
Recaredo I, by wife Rigunthe [or Clotsvinta] of France, was father of
Leova II (Liuverico), King of Spain 601-603, Suintila, King of Spain
621-631, & Geila, Prince] [note: Suintila, by wife Theodora, was
father of Richimer (d631), who, by wife Gertrude, was father of
Gerberg [wife of Aega] & Ricberg [wife of Reccesvinto, King 649-672]]
[note: Witeric was father of Ermenbergo, wife of Thierri II of France;
his bro King Sisebuto was father of Recaredo II, King 621 dep,
Sisenande, King 631-636, & Fritgarde, wife of Chinterico] [note:
Fritgarde & Chinterico were the parents of Chintila, King 636-640
[father of Tulga, King 640-642], & Chindasuinto, King 642-649 [who, by
wife Reciberga, was father of Reccesvinto, King of Spain 649-672, his
bro, Teodofredo, & his sis Liubigotona, wife of Ervigio, King 680-687]
[note: Teodofredo was the father of Rodrigo, King of Spain 709-711,
dep, d713, bro of Costa, bro of Favila, father of Pelayo, 1st King of
Asturias 718-737]
= Ingunde of France
14. Atanagildo
= Flavia Juliana, a Byzantine princess
15. Ardebasto
= [匽goto, a Burgundian princess
16. Ervigio, King of Spain 680-687
= Liubigotona, sis of Reccesuinto, King of Spain 649-672
issue
a. Pedro, father of Alfonso "The Catholic", Samario, & Fruelo [father
of Rodrigo Frolaz, 1st Lord of Castile][note: Samario was father of
Silo, Milo, & dau [name], wife of Mauregato, parents of Himiltrude,
one of Charlemagne's wives, mother of his dau, Aupais]
b. Cixila (dau), wife of Ergico, King of Spain 687-701, nephew of
Wamba, King 672-680, & father of Witiza, King of Spain 701-709, father
of Agila [II] (Achila), King 709 [note: the sis of King Ergico was
Egilon, wife of Rodrigo, King 709-711]
c. Aupais, wife of Pepin [II] of Heristal, Major Domo of France
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
there are numerous descents from the above
Todd A. Farmerie
[again, I will leave the early generations for someone else.]
> 16. Ervigio, King of Spain 680-687
> = Liubigotona, sis of Reccesuinto, King of Spain 649-672
> issue
> a. Pedro, father of Alfonso "The Catholic", Samario, & Fruelo [father
> of Rodrigo Frolaz, 1st Lord of Castile][note: Samario was father of
> Silo, Milo, & dau [name], wife of Mauregato, parents of Himiltrude,
> one of Charlemagne's wives, mother of his dau, Aupais]
As has been discussed, there is not a shred of evidence for most of what
has been claimed here. Pedro had Alfonso and Fruela. That is the only
statement here that has any validity. No source shows Pedro's parentage
(if one dismisses the Liebana donation, which seems prudent), and
Samario appears to be an invention, as does Milo and the sister married
to Mauregato. The only things documented concerning Silo and Mauregato
are that they were son-in-law and illegitimate son, respectively, of
Alfonso. As to Rodrigo Fruelaz, there was a Rodrigo, lord of Castile,
but he lived at a time prior to the use of patronymics. Setting aside
the use of an anachronistic convention (giving someone a patronymic who
can not be shown to have used one), more importantly it means that there
is no surviving document that names his father, and there is no
patronymic to even permit a guess.
> b. Cixila (dau), wife of Ergico, King of Spain 687-701, nephew of
> Wamba, King 672-680, & father of Witiza, King of Spain 701-709, father
> of Agila [II] (Achila), King 709 [note: the sis of King Ergico was
> Egilon, wife of Rodrigo, King 709-711]
> c. Aupais, wife of Pepin [II] of Heristal, Major Domo of France
There is no evidence for Alpais, concubine of Pepin, being daughter of a
Visigoth king (and it is considerably unlikely, both for political
reasons and due to more likely hypotheses being on the table).
taf
Francisco Antonio Doria
I will comment on that later.
fa
--- David Hughes <RDAVID...@AOL.com> escreveu: >
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marshall kirk
_Peoples of Europe_ series, that I have at home. (If not, it's
another book by the same man, with a similar title.) Altho' I could
say a good deal about the subjoined pedigree, I'll simply refer you to
Heather's work for a detailed analysis of what's known (and what's
not) about the early Goths.
RDAVID...@AOL.com (David Hughes) wrote in message news:<f9785a84.04042...@posting.google.com>...
> = [?]goto, a Burgundian princess
Dominic O'Kelly
an old traditional pedigree tracing him back to days long gone. The
problem is going to be finding a way to connect the tail end of this
genealogy to others. The Aupais identification doesn't seem to be
popular, and some seem to love to tear away a connection between the
later Spanish kings and the Visigoths.
Count Dominic O'Kelly
RDAVID...@AOL.com (David Hughes) wrote in message news:<f9785a84.04042...@posting.google.com>...
> = [?]goto, a Burgundian princess
Jared Linn Olar
History of Jordanes" to provide historical commentary on this
synthetic pedigree. Quotes from Mierow's Jordanes are cited by page
number.
RDAVID...@AOL.com (David Hughes) wrote in message news:<f9785a84.04042...@posting.google.com>
> descent of the BALTHAE DYNASTY of Spain
"In their third dwelling place, which was above the Sea of Pontus,
they had now become more civilized and, as I have said before, were
more learned. Then the people were divided under ruling families.
The Visigoths served the family of the BALTHI and the Ostrogoths
served the renowned Amali." (p.61)
"But after Theodosius, the lover of peace and of the Gothic race, had
passed from human cares, his sons began to ruin both empires by their
luxurious living and to deprive their Allies, that is to say the
Goths, of the customary gifts. The contempt of the Goths for the
Romans soon incresed, and for fear their valor would be destroyed by
long peace, they appointed ALARIC king over them. He was of famous
stock, for he came from the family of the BALTHI, who because of their
daring valor had long received among their race the name _Baltha_,
that is, The Bold." (p.92)
Neither Jordanes nor (as far as I know) any other extant source
provides us with explicit information on the pedigree of the Balthi
dynasty. However, in Mierow's introduction there is a table of the
Gothic kings (p.39), and in that table King Geberich (early 300s A.D.)
and Geberich's ancestors are identified as Balthi -- by what
authority, I do not know, because Jordanes never calls Geberich and
his ancestors "Balthi."
> 00. Berig, name in traditional pedigree may be identified with
> Boiorix, a Gothic king, d101BC
"Now from this island of Scandza, as from a hive of races or a womb of
nations, the Goths are said to have come forth long ago under their
king, BERIG by name. As soon as they disembarked from their ships and
set foot on the land, they straightaway gave their name to the place.
And even to-day it is said to be called Gothiscandza. Soon they moved
from here to the abodes of the Ulmerugi, who then dwelt on the shores
of Ocean, where they pitched camp, joined battle with them and drove
them from their homes. Then they subdued their neighbors, the
Vandals, and thus added to their victories. But when the number of
the people increased greatly and FILIMER, son of GADARIC, reigned as
king -- about the fifth since Berig -- he decided that the army of the
Goths with their families should move from that region. In search of
suitable homes and pleasant places they came to the land of Scythia,
called _Oium_ in that tongue." (p.57)
"You surely remember that in the beginning I said the Goths went forth
from the bosom of the island of Scandza with BERIG, their king,
sailing in only three ships toward the hither shore of Ocean, namely
to Gothiscandza." (p.78)
"The period of this earliest King of the Goths is thought by
Muellenhoff to be not earlier than the first century of our era.
Relying on Pliny (N.H., 37, 2 and 4,14) Hodgkin argues (Italy and her
invaders, 1892, I. I, 34), that the Goths were settled on the Baltic
as least as early as 330 B.C., and possibly as early as the sixth
century B.C." (p.145 -- endnote 25)
As for BOIORIX, he was not a Gothic king, but rather was king of the
Cimbri, a completely different Germanic tribe. Boiorix led an
invasion of Roman territory around 105 B.C., and the Romans under
general Marius desperately threw back the German invaders. Boiorix
was slain in 101 B.C. There is no reason to believe he was the same
as the Gothic king Berig, and plenty of reason to believe Berig and
Boiorix were two different kings. There is a superficial similarity
in their names, and they were both Germanic kings, but that's where
the similarity begins and ends. Indeed, if Hodgkin was right, and
there is anything to the legend of King Berig, we would have to place
Berig at least 200 years before the time of King Boiorix.
Of course, according to Jordanes (who was following Cassiodorus's lost
Gothic history), Berig supposedly lived well before the time of
Pharaoh Sesostris (Senusert III), whom Jordanes calls Vesosis. (By
the way, I thought I'd mention that Medieval and Renaissance Swedish
legends claimed Berig, Filimer, and Gadaric as ancient Swedish/Gautish
kings.)
> from whom descends
> 00. Eterpamara, a Gothic hero in the 1st century AD
"In earliest times they sang of the deeds of their ancestors in
strains of song accompanied by cithara; chanting of ETERPAMARA,
Hanala, Fritigern, Vidigoia and others whose fame among them is great;
such heroes as admiring antiquity scarce proclaims its own to be."
(p.62)
"Eterpamara: Muellenhoff regards this as a very obscure word, probably
not of Germanic origin." (p.149 -- endnote 43)
Absolutely nothing is known of Eterpamara besides this bare passing
reference in Jordanes. He was a legendary hero of the Goths, it would
appear. His genealogy is unknown, his descendants (if any) are
unknown. There is absolutely no reason to believe he was descended
from Berig or that he was the ancestor of the Balthi.
> from whom descends
> 01. Nidad, King of the Visi-Goths [ori. name: the Tervingi] 218-249
"Now at that time they prospered under the rule of their kings ARIARIC
and AORIC. Upon their death Geberich appeared as successor to the
throne, a man renowned for his valor and noble birth. For he was the
son of Hilderith, who was the son of Ovida, who was the son of NIDADA;
and by his illustrious deeds he equalled the glory of his race."
(p.83)
As I said above, Jordanes never identifies Geberich or his ancestors
as Balthi. Maybe they were -- Mierow listed them as such in his
introduction, where this chart appears, showing the Amali and the line
of Geberich side-by-side:
Ostrogotha Nidada 218-250
Hunuil Ovida 251-283
Athal Hilderith 284-317
Achiulf Geberich 318-350
It must be remembered that the dates assigned in this chart are only
approximations.
It should also be mentioned that Jordanes never says that Geberich was
King of the Visigoths, nor are any of Geberich's ancestors identified
as kings, let alone kings of the Visigoths or Tervingi or any other
tribe. Jordanes only says Geberich's ancestors were Gothic nobility,
and that Geberich himself was King of the Goths. Presumably he was a
Visigoth king.
> 02. Ovida, co-king 249-273 with his bros Cniva [slew Roman Emperor
> Decius 251, father of Respa & Veduca, who ravaged the Balkans in 255,
> father of Cannibas, killed vs the Roman Emperor Aurelian in 272] &
> Micca [= Soror, sis of Roman Emperor Galerius, father of Roman Emperor
> Maximin [II] "Daia"]
The only reference to Ovida is the one shown above (p.83). As for
Ovida's relationships to Cniva, Respa, Veduca, Cannibas, and Micca,
absolutely nothing is known. Here is what Jordanes says:
"As already said, [the Goths] crossed the Danube and dwelt a little
while in Moesia and Thrace. From the remnant of these came MAXIMIN,
the Emperor succeeding Alexander the son of Mamaea. For Symmachus
relates it thus in the fifth book of his history, saying that upon the
death of Caesar Alexander, Maximin was made Emperor by the army; a man
born in Thrace of most humble parentage, his father being a Goth named
MICCA, and his mother a woman of the Alani called ABABA." (p.74)
In fact, it is uncertain whether Micca was a "Goth" or (as is far more
likely) a Thracian possibly of Getic descent -- his son was called
MAXIMINUS THRAX, Maximin the Thracian. In any case, the fact that
Maximin was of "most humble parentage" makes it absolutely impossible
for Micca to have been the son of Gothic nobility or royalty. In
addition, Maximinus Thrax's mother was named Ababa, a barbarian, and
therefore could not have been a sister of Emperor Galerius. That's
just a ridiculous confusion of Maximinus Thrax, who reigned 235-238
A.D., with Maximinus Daia, who reigned 305-313 A.D.
"When both rulers were dead, it was no long time before Gallienus
usurped the throne. While he was given over to luxurious living of
every sort, RESPA, VEDUC, and THURUAR, leaders of the Goths, took ship
and sailed across the strait of the Hellespont to Asia. . ." (p.81)
Of these three Gothic chieftains, Mierow's endnote 107 (p.160) says
simply, "otherwise unknown." In other words, nothing is known of
Respa and Veduc's genealogy. There is no proof they were Balthi, or
that they were sons of Cniva.
"After [Ostrogotha's] death, CNIVA divided the army into two parts and
sent some to waste Moesia, knowing that it was undefended through the
neglect of the emperors. . ." (pp.79-80)
Jordanes tells the story of how, after some success, Cniva and the
Goths were successfully repelled by Emperior Decius (reigned 249-251
A.D.), who was nevertheless slain in battle against Cniva. Nothing is
known of Cniva's genealogy, but Mierow's endnote 101 (p.159) says
this:
"Gutschmid identifies him with Ovida, the grandfather of King Geberich
. . ., and CANNABA or CANNABAUDES, the leader of the Goths in the
reign of Aurelian. . ."
Thus, while this synthetic pedigree would make Ovida a brother of
Cniva, and would make Cniva the father of Cannaba, others have
speculated that Ovida, Cniva, and Cannaba were all the same person.
There is probably just as much proof of Gutschmid's theory as there is
for this new theory -- in other words, no proof at all, just
interesting guesswork.
> 03. Ascaric, bro of Ilderic & Ragaise [note: Ilderic, King of
> Visi-Goths 273-317, father of Geberic, King of Visi-Goths 317-350,
> father of Fridigar, King of Visi-Goths 350-364, father of a dau,
> Gaatha, Queen 364-?] [note: Ragaise, father of Ariaric (333), father
> of Aoric, father of Alatheus & Saphrax, co-kings 383-?]
Jordanes mentions no Gothic kings named ASCARIC. I would be
interested to learn the source that mentions this king. I would not
be surprised to learn that there is either no historical evidence for
Ascaric's existence, and/or no evidence that he was the brother of
Hilderith (Ilderic) and uncle of Geberich. Again, there does not seem
to have been any Visigoth king named Fridigar, but there was a
Visigoth ruler or chief named FRITIGERN. I suspect that Fritigern's
name has been respelled here in order to bring it into line with the
spellings of the names in the traditional Anglo-Saxon pedigrees, which
are sources (or resources) for the next few generations of this
synthetic pedigree.
"Ragaise" is, I suspect, Radagaisus the Vandal, whose genealogy is
unknown. I'm unaware of any Visigoth of that name in this era. Since
he was a Vandal, not a Goth, he could not have been a Baltha, nor the
brother of Geberich's father Hilderith. As a Vandal, Radagaisus could
not have been the father of the Gothic kings Ariaric and Aoric, of
whom very little is known. Aoric may have been the son of Ariaric,
but there is no way to be sure. Maybe they were brothers or cousins,
or uncle and nephew. Who knows? (See Mierow's endnote 112,
pp.161-162.)
Of the Visigoths, Jordanes says, "Their princes and the leaders who
ruled them in place of kings, that is FRITIGERN, ALATHEUS and SAFRAC,
began to lament the plight of their army and begged Lupicinus and
Maximus, the Roman commanders, to open a market." (p.89)
Nothing is known of the genealogies or relationships of the chieftains
Fritigern, Alatheus, and Safrac. There is certainly no proof that
Alatheus and Saphrax were the sons of Aoric, any more than there is
any proof that Fritigern (Fridigar?) was the son of Geberich. No
extant historical sources tell us anything of their genealogies.
> 04. Vidigoia (Wihtgeat)
We already saw a reference to Vidigoia above (p.62). Also on p.101,
Jordanes quotes the Roman historian Priscus, "who was sent to (Attila
the Hun) on an embassy by the younger Theodosius." Priscus said:
"Crossing mighty rivers -- namely, the Tisia and Tibisia and Dricca --
we came to the place where long ago VIDIGOIA, bravest of the Goths,
perished by the guile of the Sarmatians."
Vidigoia was a legendary Gothic hero, and nothing historical is known
of him -- we only know that the Goths celebrated his memory and his
bravery, and that he was remembered as having been slain through the
guile of the Sarmatians. Although his original story was forgotten,
he continued to be celebrated in medieval Germanic legend and saga,
where he is called WUDGA or VITHGA or WIDIA or WITTICH. The
Anglo-Saxon name "Wihtgeat" is not an equivalent to "Vidigoia." In
Anglo-Saxon sources, Vidigoia was called Wudga.
> 05. Wihturic (376), bro of Wihtalac (Wihtleg), father of Wermund "The
> Sage", father of Offa (Olauus) (Alavivaz), whose descendants were
> called the "Ofdings"
This generation seems to be completely imaginary. If there was any
Gothic king or chief named Wihturic in this era, there is certainly no
proof that he was the brother of WIHTLAEG of the Anglo-Saxon pedigree
of the Mercian kings. WIHTLAEG and his son WERMUND were apparently
kings of the Angles (although Danish tradition identified them as
Danish kings), and their son OFFA (Uffi in Danish legend) was renowned
in Anglo-Saxon legend. Uffi/Offa is indeed called Olaus or Olaf
Litillati in Scandinavian legend, but the equation of those names with
the Gothic "Alavivaz" is all wrong. Olaf came from the named
Anulaifur, not the Gothic Alavivaz. But Ammianus mentions an
"Alavivo" in connection with Fritigern, which is no doubt where this
Alavivaz/Olaus identification comes from. Since the Angles, Goths,
and Danes were all separate Germanic tribes, we can summarily dismiss
the notion that their legendary kings were in fact all from the same
family, the Balthi.
As for Offa being the ancestor of the Ofdings, actually Offa was the
ancestor of the Iclingas of Mercia. The Ofdings were a completely
different tribe or dynasty.
> 06. Athanaric, King of Visi-Goths ?-383
> = Gaatha, Queen (above)
Jordanes identifies Athanaric as the successor of Fritigern, but says
nothing of his genealogy. In fact, if Athanaric was a Baltha, it
seems odd that Jordanes never mentioned it. Instead, Alaric is the
first Visigoth king whom he explicitly identifies as a Baltha, which
would make you think that Alaric's predecessors weren't Balthi.
Indeed, the presumption is that when Alaric was elected, he was chosen
from a different family from the family (or families) from whom
Fritigern and Athanaric had come.
As for the name of Athanaric's wife "Gaatha" and the claim that she
was Fritigern's daughter, I would like to see some proof.
Well, I'll stop here, since most of what this synthetic pedigree has
to say about the early Visigoth rulers of Spains seems genuine. (A
few individuals named raise some concerns, of course) It's clear that
this pedigree doesn't really have anything going for it.
Jared Linn Olar
Jared Linn Olar
> Berig has an old traditional pedigree tracing him back to days long
> gone.
I'm not aware of any traditional pedigree of Berig. In Jordanes,
Berig stands at the head of the Gothic kinglist, with no ancestors
mentioned -- and the succession and genealogy after the time of Berig
is not traced generation by generation.
Jared Linn Olar
Todd A. Farmerie
> and some seem to love to tear away a connection between the
> later Spanish kings and the Visigoths.
If you mean any connection, I don't think this is accurate at all. It
has been the consensus from the time of Claudio Sanchez Albornoz that
the Asuraian kings represented, and thought of themselves as, the rulers
of a continuous Visigoth kingdom - that they were not founding a new
kingdom from the ashes of the Visigoth one, but that they were
effectively Visigoth kings reigning over a significantly reduced
territory. Likewise, I don't think many doubt that there were
genealogical connections. However, it is a bit more of a stretch to
claim a specific line of descent, name by name, for any of which there
is no surviving evidence.
taf
Dominic O'Kelly
The historical royal pedigree does gap after Berig. There are a number
of unnamed kings, probably about 5, who were apparently his
descendants. I've seen Berig as a descendant of the ole traditonal
Sceaf, but I'm sure that is a late invention.
Count Dominic O'Kelly