C.P. Addition: Alice de Armenters, wife of Gerard de Lisle and Nicholas de Segrave
Douglas Richardson
Complete Peerage, 8 (1932): 48 (sub Lisle) gives a good account of Sir
Gerard de Lisle, of Kingston Lisle (in Sparsholt), Berkshire, who died
in 1287/88. Regarding his marriage, the following information is
supplied:
"He married in or before 1271, Alice de Armenters, daughter of Henry de
Armenters. His widow was living in 1290."
In a footnote, Alice's father, Henry de Armenters, is further
identified as the "brother and heir of John, son of Geoffrey de
Armenters." The following source is cited: Plac. de Quo Warranto, pg.
527.
Research into Alice de Armenters's background reveals that she was the
daughter and heiress of Henry de Armenters, of Stowe and Kislingbury,
Northamptonshire, and Burley, Rutland (died shortly before 25 March
1256), by his wife, Alice (living 1266) [References: Charles Roberts,
ed., Excerpta e Rotulis Finium, 2 (1836): 225, 444, 538]. Henry de
Armenters was in turn the 2nd son of Sir Geoffrey de Armenters (living
1235-6), of Stowe and Kislingbury, Northamptonshire, and Burley,
Rutland, by his wife, Juliane, daughter of Sir Gilbert de Gant, of
Folkingham, Lincolnshire (died 1242). As such, Alice de Armenters
possesses the distinguished Carolingian ancestry which is found in the
Gant family tree.
In spite of Complete Peerage's identification of Alice's father as
Henry de Armenters, Alice's corredct parentage has been somewhat
obscured by an inaccurate account of the Armenters family found in
George Baker's History and Antiquities of the County of Northampton, 1
(1822-1830): 441-444. For reasons which are inexplicable, Baker argued
Alice de Armenters was the half-sister of Henry de Armenters, rather
than his daughter. This is in spite of the fact that Baker quotes a
document dated 1292-3 which specifically refers to Alice as the "cousin
and heir" (not sister) to Henry de Armenters' older brother, John de
Armenters, who died without issue. Baker cites as his source for this
document, Placit. 21 Edward I, r.43, which citation I assume is is the
same thing as Abbrev. Plac. (Rec. Comm.), 232.
Baker does correctly show that Alice de Armenters married (2nd) before
3 December 1304 Sir Nicholas de Segrave, who died in 1321 [see Baker,
ibid.; Calendar of Inquisition Post Mortem 4 (1913): 154-157]. This
individual can be readily identified as Sir Nicholas de Segrave, Lord
Segrave, of Stowe, Northamptonshire, an account of which individual can
be found in Complete Peerage 11 (1949): 610-612 (sub Segrave).
Regarding Lord Segrave's marriage, the following limited information is
provided in Complete Peerage:
"He married Alice, who apparently predeceased him."
Sir Nicholas de Segrave was lord of Stowe, Northamptonshire in right of
his wife's inheritance in 1304 and 1316, as well as other Armenters
family properties [References: Calendar of Inquisition Post Mortem 4
(1913): 154-157; Feudal Aids, 4 (1906): 20, 30]. Regarding Alice de
Armenters' death date, I find that Alice, then wife of Sir Nicholas de
Segrave, was living in 1312-3, when her manor of Burley, Rutland was
settled on Nicholas and Alice and their male issue, with reversion to
Alice's younger son by her first marriage, John de Lisle [Reference:
Feet of Fines Rutland Hil. 6 Edward II, no. 8]. Baker states in a
chart on pg. 443 that Alice de Armenters was dead 12 Edward II. (1318),
but he gives no source for this information. Alice was certainly dead
on 2 Id. Sept. [12 September] 1318, when her husband, Sir Nicholas de
Segrave, presented to the church of Kislingbury, Northamptonshire "rat.
terre quond. Alic. ux. ejus." [Reference: John Bridges, History and
Antiquities of Northamptonshire, 1 (1791): 532].
Regarding Alice de Armenters' issue, Baker states that she had three
sons by her first marriage to Sir Gerard de Lisle, namely Gerard,
Warin, Knt., and John, Knt. She was also apparently the mother of
Nicholas de Segrave's daughter, Maud de Segrave, born about 1296 (aged
25 in 1321), who married Edmund de Bohun.
For interest's sake, the following is a list of the 17th Century
colonial New World immigrants who descend from Alice (de Armenters) (de
Lisle) de Segrave through intermarriages of the Lisle, Berkeley, and
Stonor families:
William Bladen, Elizabeth Bosvile, George, Giles & Robert Brent, St.
Leger Codd, Edward Digges, Muriel Gurdon, Elizabeth & John Harleston,
Warham Horsmanden, Anne Humphrey, Anne Mauleverer, Philip & Thomas
Nelson, Herbert Pelham, Thomas Rudyard, Katherine Saint Leger, Mary
Johanna Somerset, John West.
Further details on the Armenters, Gant, Lisle, and Segrave families
will be found in my forthcoming book, Baronial Ancestry.
Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah
Website: www.royalancestry.net
mj...@btinternet.com
Very interesting; thanks for posting it. I particularly appreciate the
individual referencing, which adds considerably to the utility of the
post.
Cheers
Michael
Douglas Richardson
The following 16 items are found in the helpful online A2A Catalogue
(http://www.a2a.org.uk/search/index.asp). They are all taken from the
Berkeley Castle Muniments. These documents and commentary add
considerably to our knowledge of the life history of Alice de
Armenters, wife of Sir Gerard de Lisle and Sir Nicholas de Segrave,
Lord Segrave.
Reviewing the items below, they show that Alice de Armenters married
(1st) Sir Gerard de Lisle, of Kingston Lisle, Berkshire, by whom she
reportedly had three sons, Warin, Gerard, and John, and four daughters,
Margery (wife of Philip Lucyan), Mary (wife of William Tuchet), Cecily,
and Joan. Sir Gerard de Lisle died in 1287. Alice de Armenters is
stated to have still been a widow in 1293, but she soon afterwards
married (2nd) Sir Nicholas de Segrave, by whom she had one daughter,
Maud, born about 1296. The documents show Alice was definitely the
wife of Sir Nicholas de Segrave before 20 January 1297. Alice was
still living 24 May 1313, but presumably died shortly before 8 February
1315, when Sir Nicholas de Segrave granted Sir Richard de Pulham,
chaplain, in free alms two messuages, 1 carucate of land and 40s. of
rent in Alvesthorp and Burgle, to celebrate for the souls of himself
and Alice his wife, in the chapel of Alvesthorp.
Comments are invited.
Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah
Website: www.royalancestry.net
1. BCM/B
THE LISLE ESTATE
Administrative History
Lisle of Kingston Lisle was a cadet branch of the Lisles of
Cambridgeshire (later of Rougemont) and the estate came to the
Berkeleys on the marriage of Thomas (IV) Lord Berkeley (d. 1417) to
Margaret, daughter and, after the death of her brother in 1381, heir of
Warin Lord Lisle (d. 1382). It then passed to Margaret's daughter
Elizabeth, who married Richard Beauchamp, later earl of Warwick (d.
1439), and to her three daughters. In that context the number of
charters concerning the estate that have remained at Berkeley is
surprising.
The estate was built up primarily from a number of inheritances which
accrued to it through marriage to heiresses, and as a result it was
very scattered. Robert de Lisle of Cambridgeshire (d. 1262) married
Alice, sister and heir of Warin FitzGerold and daughter of Henry
FitzGerold (d. c. 1231). Alice granted to her younger son, Gerard, two
manors of her inheritance, Kingston Lisle (Berks.) and Mundford
(Norf.). Gerard (d. 1287) married a second Alice, daughter of Henry de
Armenters, and niece and heir of Henry's elder brother John, who
brought with her the manors of Kislingbury and Church Stowe
(Northants.) and Burley (Rutland), and later Church Brampton
(Northants.). Of these Kislingbury, Church Stowe and Church Brampton
descended to her eldest son and his issue, while Burley went to her
younger son John.
Gerard's son and heir Warin (d. 1322) increased the family estate by
marriage to a third Alice, the only sister and heir of Henry Lord Tyeys
(d. 1322). The Tyeys estate had itself; recently been enlarged by the
acquisition of another inheritance, that of Foliot, since Tyeys's
father Henry (d. 1307) was the grandson and heir of Samson Foliot (d.
1282 x 1284). The Foliot estate consisted of seven manors: Hardwell and
Odstone (Berks.), Draycot Foliat and; Chilton Foliat (Wilts.), Fritwell
and Noke (Oxon.) and Bracken (Yorks.). The Tyeys inheritance had
initially been only the Cornish manors of Alverton and Tywarnhayle and
the Oxfordshire manor of Shirburn, but after succeeding to the Foliot
lands Henry le Tyeys (d. 1307) acquired lands in Wiltshire at Fresden,
in Highworth, and Lydiard Tregoze, and his son also bought lands in
Burbage, Leverton and Calcot, Puthall and Timbridge and Charlton by
Hungerford (Wilts.) and in Bockhampton (Berks.). The fourth Henry was a
Contrariant, executed after Boroughbridge, and he left a widow Margaret
who married secondly Thomas de Monthermer (d. 1340) and eventually died
in 1349 holding a third of the inheritance. Alice had died in 1347 when
her eldest son, Gerard (II) de Lisle, was her heir.
The Cornish lands of the Tyeys inheritance appear to have prompted the
marriage of Warin (II) (d. 1382), son and heir of Gerard (II), to
Margaret, daughter and coheir of Sir William Pipard of Devon. She was
coheir to the manors of Charleton, North Bovey, Langdon and Tetcott,
with various other smaller holdings in Devon, and the manors of
Wingrave (Bucks.), Nethercott (Wilts.) and Hintlesham (Suff.), but she
and Warin also acquired a large proportion of her sister's purparty.
The Lisles bought the manors of Beedon, Lambourn and Peasemore (Berks.)
and holdings in Fulham (Middx.) but their inheritance, enlarged by
marriage to three heiresses in four generations, itself fell to an
heiress in 1382. The last Lisle, Warin (II), had a son and a daughter
by Margaret Pipard, Gerard and Margaret, and both were married, Gerard
in 1373 (aged thirteen) to Amy, daughter of Michael de la Pole, first
earl of Suffolk, and Margaret (aged seven) in 1367 to Thomas, son and
heir apparent of Maurice (IV) Lord Berkeley. [GCR 1369-74, 557; Smyth
ii. 2-3.] Gerard died without issue after Jan. 1380 and probably before
Nov. 1381 when his father came to an agreement with Thomas de Berkeley
(then Lord Berkeley) allowing Margaret to inherit all his lands. [GEC
viii. 53; below, BCM/B/7/3/30 [SC 559].]
Besides nearly four hundred charters, information on the Lisle
inheritance is derived from the Berkeley estate valors of 1385 and
1389, five account rolls of the manor of Kingston Lisle from the 1380,
the early 14th-century charter roll concerning the Foliot and Tyeys
lands, a 15th-century calendared charter roll of Berkshire lands, and
especially the Great Cartulary of the 15th century, in addition to the
inquisitions post mortem of the Lisles, Tyeys and various widows, and
other material in the Public Record Office.
BCM/B/1
THE FITZGEROLD INHERITANCE
Administrative History
The Lisles of Kingston Lisle were established by the grant by Alice
wife of Robert de Lisle (d. c. 1262) to their younger son Gerard of two
manors, Kingston, in the parish of Sparsholt (Berks.), then called
Kingston Gerold and now Kingston Lisle, and Mundford (Norf.). With
Kingston were associated a number of other holdings nearby which were
occasionally referred to as the manors of Fawler and Baulking, and
which incorporated holdings in Uffington. The manor of Nuneham (Oxon.)
also seems to have been part of the FitzGerold inheritance.
BCM/B/1/1
KINGSTON LISLE (BERKS.)
Administrative History
The parish of Sparsholt was divided between the hundreds of Wantage and
Shrivenham, the villages of Sparsholt and Westcot lying in the former
and Kingston Lisle and Fawler in the latter. Sparsholt, with part of
Westcot and another vill, Eastmanton, were held by the Achard family
(and later by the de la Mares), but the portion of the parish in
Wantage hundred was dominated by the Lisles. Ten hides in the parish,
later Kingston Lisle, was royal demesne, for which the sheriff owed a
farm of £32, until 1154 when it was granted by Henry II to Warin
FitzGerold, a chamberlain of the Exchequer. On Warin's childless death
in 1159 it passed to his brother Henry (d. 1174-5) and from him to his
elder son and heir Warin, who granted it to his younger brother,
another Henry (d. c. 1231). Warin's grant of Sparsholt and neighbouring
Baulking to Henry (below, BCM/B/1/1/9 [SC 113]) was witnessed by Ralph
and Henry Foliot, who were presumably Ralph of Chilton Foliat and his
brother and eventual heir; Ralph is said to have died c. 1204, so when
Warin was recorded as holding the 32 librates in Sparsholt in 1212 it
was as mediate lord only. Henry FitzGerold's son and heir Warin died
without issue 1257 x 1260, leaving the manor to pass to his sister
Alice, wife of Robert de Lisle. The estate's history is reflected in
its changing denomination, from Kingesparsholte in 1254, to Kingston
Gerold, and later Kingston Lisle. Despite the later dominance of
Kingston, Baulking appears to have been the more important vill in the
13th century. Henry FitzGerold was granted a market at Baulking in
1218, and his son a market and fair there in 1253, although in the
following year, when he had a grant of free warren in Kingston, Fawler
and Baulking, he also had a market in Kingston. [Farrer, iii. 170.]
Also in Sparsholt was another estate of 10 hides at Fawler which had
been held in 1086 by Abingdon Abbey and was later subinfeudated by the
abbey to the Columbers family of neighbouring Hardwell and Uffington.
Robert de Columbers died in 1238 when his estates were mortgaged to the
Jews; Hardwell passed to Gilbert de Columbers but was sold by his son
and heir Henry to Samson Foliot for a payment of 200 marks to the Jews
of Winchester. Warin FitzGerold acquired the estate in Fawler before
1242-3 when he was holding one fee there of the abbey. [Farrer, iii.
223]
Although the three vills of Kingston, Baulking and Fawler were usually
associated as one manor under the Lisles, the different histories of
the vills was reflected in the feudal structure, the cadet branch of
the Lisles holding Kingston and Baulking of the Lisles of Rougemont
while Fawler was held of the abbey.
The manor was granted to Gerard de Lisle by his mother Alice, with
Mundford, in 1264-5, and Gerard's widow Alice acquired the wardship of
the manor, also with Mundford, from Gerard's nephew, Warin de Lisle of
Rougemont, in 1290: below, BCM/B/1/1/10 [GC 576]. It was forfeited
after the rebellion and execution of Warin in 1322 and restored to his
widow in 1326: below, BCM/B/1/1/12 [SC 491]. It was clearly the centre
of the Lisle estate and the surviving accounts and valors show that in
the 1380s the rents and farms of many other manors of the estate were
paid there, including those of Hardwell, Fresden, Bockhampton, Upper
Lambourn, Nethercott, Draycot Foliat, Noke and Fritwell.
THE LISLE MANOR
Grants by Alice FitzGerold to her son Gerard (I)
Reference: BCM/B/1/1/1
Creation dates: [c. 1264-5]
Scope and Content
Alice de Insula, daughter of Henry FitzGerold, widow, and her son
Gerard. n.d.
Alice has granted to Gerard all her manor of Kingeston, and her land in
Fauflor and Badelkynge, except the land called Stotfolde in Badelkinge
which was bought from Andrew de Badelkynge; to him and his issue, rent
a pair of gold spurs a year.
Witnesses: Sir Guy de Archentem, Sir Philip de Insula, Sir Hugh de
Herdeburne, Sir John de Sancto Walerico, Sir Peter Achard, Sir Geoffrey
Foliot, Sir Herbert de Bolebek, Sir Reginald de Archentem, Sir Richard
de Archentem, Sir Ralph de Rouecestre, knights, Richard de Coleshulle,
Peter de Badelkynge, Andrew de Badelkynge.
Reference: BCM/B/1/1/2
Creation dates: [2 Aug. 1265]
Scope and Content
Gerard de Insula and Lady Alice de Insula, his mother. Sun. after St.
Peter in chains, 49 Hen. III
Gerard has granted to Alice the manors of Kyngeston (Berks.), and
Mundeford (Norf.); to hold for life, to hold as he held before of her
gift, rent a sore sparrowhawk a year, with remainder to Gerard and his
heirs.
Witnesses: Sir Thomas Bardulf, Robert de Tybetoft, Philip de Insula,
Osbert de Kaylly, Richard de Coleshull, Osbert de Mundeford, Geoffrey
le clerk de Mundeford, John de Copeshulle.
Reference: BCM/B/1/1/3
Creation dates: [11 Nov. 1269]
Scope and Content
Gerard de Insula and Alice de Insula. One week after St. Martin, 54
Hen. III
Final concord concerning the manor of Kingston; Alice has acknowledged
the right of Gerard in the manor, by her gift, to him and his issue;
rent £28 to Alice while she lives and the service of a quarter of a
fee, after her death no rent and the service of one fee, reversion to
Alice and her right heirs if Gerard dies without issue.
At: Westminster.
2. BCM/B/2
THE ARMENTERS INHERITANCE
Administrative History
Gerard de Lisle (d. 1287) greatly increased his estate by marrying
Alice, daughter of Henry de Armenters and niece and heir of John de
Armenters. She was still a widow in 1293 but then married Nicholas Lord
Segrave (d. 1321) of Barton Seagrave (Northants.), younger brother of
John Lord Segrave (d. 1325). As a result, some of the charters
concerning Alice belong with those of the Segrave inheritance (below,
BCM/D/5).
The manors to which Alice was heir were principally Church Stowe and
Kislingbury (Northants.) and Burley (Rutland), all held by the Domesday
ancestor of Geoffrey de Armenters, father of John and Henry, and manors
in which Geoffrey was granted free warren by Henry III in 1247, [VCH
Rutland, ii. 114; BCM SB 10, f. 154.] but she acquired other interests
in Northamptonshire at Nether Heyford, Northampton and Church Brampton.
By Lisle Alice had three sons, Warin, Gerard and John, and four
daughters, Margery (who married Philip Lucyan), Mary (who married
William Tuchet), Cecilia and Joan. To her younger son John she granted
the manor of Burley and some, at least, of her lands at Kislingbury. By
Segrave she had a daughter Maud, who married Edmund de Bohun and to
whom she granted the manor of Church Brampton. Maud died without issue
in 1335 and that manor reverted to Alice's grandson Gerard (II) de
Lisle, but the rest of her lands reverted to her cousin John Lord
Segrave.
3. Reference: BCM/B/2/1/1
Creation dates: Mid 13th Cent
Scope and Content
Henry de Alemannia; and Sir Gerard de Insula and Alice his wife. n.d.
[late Hen. III]
Henry has quitclaimed to Gerard and Alice all the lands and holdings
which were of Sir John de Aermenters, with the marriage of the said
Alice, for £200 which Gerard and Alice have given him, which lands and
marriage Henry had recently bought from Sir Peter de Kivillers, who had
it by grant from the king.
Witnesses: Sir Adam de Newport (de Novo Mercato), Sir Robert de Offord,
Sir Michael Maucundut, Sir Luke de Thani, Sir Robert de Neuton.
4. Reference: BCM/B/2/4/3
Creation dates: [20 Jan. 1297]
Scope and Content
Thomas Malekake of Kislingbury and Alice his wife; and Sir Nicholas de
Segrave and Alice his wife. Sun. after St. Hilary, 25 Edw. I
Thomas and Alice are bound to Nicholas and Alice and Alice's heirs in 1
mark of annual rent from their chamber for the life of Thomas's wife
Alice, widow of John de Armenters, for extending the garden of their
capital messuage in Kyselyngbur', which she has in dower from John de
Armenters.
At: Kislingbury.
5. Reference: BCM/D/5/54/1
Creation dates: [15 Feb. 1299]
Scope and Content
Alice Tromewyne, widow of John Jors of Wymeswold; and Sir Nicholas de
Segrave, knight, and Alice his wife. Sun. the morrow of St. Valentine,
27 Edw. I
Alice has granted to Nicholas and Alice a messuage with all her holding
in the vill of Wymundewold, which she had by grant of Thomas Tromewyne
her uncle, with a windmill in the same vill, and all her chattels.
Witnesses: Sir John Maloree of Walton, Sir Robert Pouterel of
Prestwold, knights, John de Nevyle of Wymeswold, Thomas de Bowes of
Costock, Peter de Northbourne, Robert de Warewyk of Wymeswold, Robert
de Atheloxtone of the same.
At: Wymeswold.
6. PEASENHALL (SUFF.)
Administrative History
The manor was part of the Bigod inheritance, and in 1302 Roger Bigod,
the last Bigod earl of Norfolk, granted to Nicholas de Segrave (d.
1321) and his wife Alice land and rent to the value of £20 a year in
the manor. [CPR 1301-7, 64.] The grant may have been of the whole
manor, as Peasenhall is not mentioned in Roger's inquisition post
mortem of 1306. Nicholas held Peasenhall at his death, and it then
passed to his daughter and heir Maud and her husband Edmund de Bohun.
Edmund granted it to Godfrey de Loudham, vicar of Peasenhall, and
William Testard for their lives, and they granted it to John de Loudham
and his wife Joan, who were pardoned in Feb. 1333 for entering it
without the king's licence. [CPR 1330-4, 408.] On Maud's death without
issue in 1335 the reversion of the manor passed to her cousin John Lord
Segrave, and it formed part of the great settlement in 1343-4, being
held in jointure by Margaret Marshal. In the division of the Mowbray
lands in 1483 it was assigned to Howard with the rest of the Bigod
lands in the county.
7. Reference: BCM/D/5/63/1
Creation dates: [13 July 1303]
Scope and Content
Simon de Nevile of Middle Cotton; and Sir Nicholas de Segrave and Alice
his wife. Sat. in St. Margaret the virgin, 31 Edw. I
Simon has granted to Nicholas and Alice all the holdings which he had
in Middelcotes, Raundes and Ringstede; for Simon's life, rent 9 marks a
year.
Witnesses: Sir John de Esston, sheriff of Northamptonshire, Sir
Nicholas de Wyth[en]ehale, Sir Hugh Daundely, Sir Roger de Insula,
knights, William.... of Woodford, William son of Ralph de Craneford,
Thomas Cursum of ...
At: Barton...
8. Reference: BCM/D/5/63/2
Creation dates: [9 Jan. 1305]
Scope and Content
John Spigurnel in Wodeford, knight; and Sir Nicholas de Segrave and
Alice his wife. Sat. after Epiphany, 33 Edw. I
John has quitclaimed to Nicholas and Alice and Nicholas's heirs all the
holdings and lands in the hamlet of Middelcotes and in the vills of
Raundes and Ringstede which were of William son of Simon de Middelcotes
(Northants.).
Witnesses: Sir John de Asscheton, sheriff of Northamptonshire, Sir
Richard Chaumberleyn, Sir Hugh Daundely, knights, John de Tolthorp of
Deneford, Nicholas de Boys of Woodford, William Walranam of Thrapston,
William Jordan of Barnwell, John in le Saus of Finedon, and William de
Trailli of Woodford.
At: Northampton.
9. Reference: BCM/B/2/5/1
Creation dates: [21 Dec. 1312]
Scope and Content
Thomas son and heir of the late Robert de Cattewith of Northampton; and
Sir Nicholas de Seggrave and Alice his wife. Thurs. the feast of St.
Thomas the apostle, 6 Edw. II
Thomas, of full age, has granted to Nicholas and Alice, for a certain
sum of money, a holding in the street called Goldstrete, Norht', and
two cellars and two solars in Wllemongoresstrete.
Witnesses: Alexander de Nayleswrth, mayor of Northampton, Walter de
Pateshull and Ralph de Horton, bailiffs of the same, Robert de
Bedeford, Adam de Waltham, John de Heyham, William le Wlf, Reginald
Page, Hugh de Writele, Nicholas de Stoke, Robert de Houghton, John de
Rowell, Giles de Flore.
At: Northampton.
10. BCM/D/5/62
COTTON, IN RAUNDS (NORTHANTS.)
Administrative History
Although the manor seems to have been acquired by the younger Nicholas
de Segrave from William Tuchet, the other holdings associated with it
(at Raunds, Ringstead, Middle Cotton and Denford) had then been in the
family's hands for some time. William Tuchet (below, BCM/D/5/62/1
[GC1923]) was the son-in-law of Nicholas's wife Alice, having married
one of her daughters by Gerard de Lisle. Evidently Cotton passed to
Nicholas's daughter and heir, Maud, and her husband Edmund de Bohun
(below, BCM/D/5/62/2 [GC 2455]), but it reverted to the main line on
Maud's childless death in 1335 and was in 1339 granted to Henry del
Green in exchange for his manor of Witherley: above, BCM/D/5/53/4-6
[GC2952-4].
Reference: BCM/D/5/62/1
Creation dates: [c. 24 May 1313]
Scope and Content
William Tuchet, knight; and Sir Nicholas de Segrave and Alice his
wife.... before Ascension, 6 Edw. II
William has confirmed to Nicholas and Alice, and Nicholas's heirs and
assigns, the... which he had in Cotes... (Northants.).
Witnesses: Simon de Draytone, Hugh Daundelyne, John de Thorpe, knights,
John de Danesby, John Oliver.
At: London.
11. Reference: BCM/D/5/54/3
Creation dates: [25 April 1313]
Scope and Content
Simon le Jorz of Wymeswold; and Sir Nicholas de Segrave and Alice his
wife, widow of Sir Gerard de Insula, and Maud daughter of Nicholas and
Alice. Wed. the feast of St. Mark, 6 Edw. II
Simon has quitclaimed to Nicholas, Alice and Maud, for their lives, all
the lands [etc.] of the honour of Tykehil, which Stephen le Jorz, his
father, formerly held of the honour in Wymundwold.
Witnesses: Sir John de Nevile, knight, Sir Robert Poutrel, knight, Sir
Thomas de Meynil, knight, Hugh de Prestewold, William le Broun of
Burton, Reginald le Berges of the same, John the clerk of Wymeswold,
Robert de Alokeston, Robert de Burton, clerk.
At: Holywell.
12. Reference: BCM/D/5/62/1
Creation dates: [c. 24 May 1313]
Scope and Content
William Tuchet, knight; and Sir Nicholas de Segrave and Alice his
wife.... before Ascension, 6 Edw. II
William has confirmed to Nicholas and Alice, and Nicholas's heirs and
assigns, the... which he had in Cotes... (Northants.).
Witnesses: Simon de Draytone, Hugh Daundelyne, John de Thorpe, knights,
John de Danesby, John Oliver.
At: London.
13. Reference: BCM/D/5/71/1
Creation dates: [8 Feb. 1315]
Scope and Content
The prioress and convent of Nuneaton, patrons of the church of Burley
in the diocese of Lincoln; and Sir Nicholas de Segrave, knight. Fri.
after the Purification, 8 Edw. II
The convent has inspected the charter of Nicholas granting to Sir
Richard de Pulham, chaplain, in free alms two messuages, 1 carucate of
land and 40s. of rent in Alvesthorp and Burgle, to celebrate for the
souls of himself and Alice his wife, in the chapel of Alvesthorp;
witnessed by Bernard de Bruis, knight, Gilbert de Cotesmor, John Lovet,
Robert Holdward, Anketin Mortivaux, at Lincoln on the above date; and
the convent has consented to the grant.
14. CHURCH BRAMPTON (NORTHANTS.)
Administrative History
The manor was recovered from Sir Robert Peverel, on an assize of mort
d'ancestor, by Alice and Nicholas de Segrave and granted to their
daughter Maud in Feb. 1315. [BCM SB 10, f. 167d.] Three years after
Maud's death without issue in 1335 Gerard (II) de Lisle created a
jointure in Church Brampton and Church Stowe for himself and Eleanor,
his first wife: below, BCM/B/2/6/1-3 [GC 2908, GC 2916, GC 2919]. Later
both manors were held in dower by Joan (d. 1392), widow of Warin (II)
(d. 1382). Joan later married Gilbert Talbot.
15. Reference: BCM/D/5/71/2
Creation dates: [8 Feb. 1315]
Scope and Content
Walter vicar of Burley and Sir Nicholas de Segrave, knight. Fri. after
the Purification, 8 Edw. II
Walter has inspected the charter of Nicholas granting to Sir Richard de
Pulham, chaplain, in free alms two messuages, 1 carucate of land and
40s. of rent in Alvesthorp and Burgle, to celebrate for the souls of
himself and Alice his wife, in the chapel of Alvesthorp; witnessed by
Bernard de Bruis, knight, Gilbert de Cotesmor, John Lovet, Robert
Holdward, Anketin Mortivaux, at Lincoln on the above date; and Walter
has consented to the grant.
16. BCM/B/2/7
SHELSWELL (OXON.)
Administrative History
The charter below evidently relates to some claim to the manor of
Shelswell made by Maud, daughter of Alice and Segrave. There are two
possible reasons why Maud may have had a claim. The manor was held by
Amicia, daughter and heir of Nicholas of Weston (d. 1281); she married
first Elias de Hauville (d. 1297), and secondly, in or before 1300, Sir
Henry Mauleverer, and in July 1316 'Anna', late the wife of Elias de
Hauville, acknowledged a debt of 2,000 marks to Nicholas de Segrave.
[CCR 1313-18, 348.] The debt may have arisen from a bond for the
performance of some agreement over the manor, and may have been
connected with the interest of Alice de Lisle's son-in-law, William
Tuchet, which he seems to have acquired from the chancellor Walter
Langton [Langton had a grant of free warren in Shelswell in Jan. 1300
and Tuchet a similar grant in Feb. 1301: VCH Oxon. vi. 286. In 1300
Tuchet had been forced to grant his valuable manor of Thorpe Waterville
(Northants.) to Langton in exchange for other manors, and Shelswell may
have been part of the deal.] A settlement was made in 1300 by which
part of the manor was to be held by Mauleverer and part by Tuchet.
Mauleverer had died by 1313 and Amicia by 1322, when Tuchet was
executed after Boroughbridge and his lands were forfeited. By 1327
Tuchet's portion of Shelswell was granted to Richard de Cornwall, who
had owned property in the manor from 1316: it passed to Cornwall's
descendants. [VCH Oxon. vi. 286. Richard may have been a younger son of
Sir Richard de Cornwall, illegitimate son of Richard earl of Cornwall.]
Tuchet had sold his manor of Cotton (Northants.) to Alice and Segrave
in 1313: below, BCM/D/5/62/1 [GC 1923]. Maud de Segrave's husband,
Edmund de Bohun, was himself a Contrariant and was pardoned and
restored to his lands, including his wife's Segrave lands, in 1324, the
year after the date of the charter below.
Reference: BCM/B/2/7/1
Creation dates: [5 May 1323]
Language: French
Scope and Content
Sir Richard de Cornewayll; and Sir Edmund de Bohun and Maud his wife.
Thurs. in Ascension, 16 Edw. II
Richard has released to Edmund and Maud all the actions, quarrels
[etc.] against them concerning the manor of Schaldeswell (Oxon.), by a
writing in the custody of Master Robert de Aylestone [etc.].
mhol...@mac.com
died in 1254, Alice, his daughter would be born at the latest in 1255
as a posthumous daughter. If she married according to your timeline,
she would have been 42 at the birth of her last daughter in 1296. This
is possible, but at the extreme edge, one would think, and that's
presupposing a posthumous birth. If born say 1250, or earlier, then
she's well into her late forties and the possibility of her still
bearing children seems slight.
Douglas Richardson
In the commentary provided by the Berkeley Castle Muniments, Alice (de
Armenters) de Lisle is stated to have still been a widow in 1293. The
source for this statement is surely the inquisition cited by Baker
dated 1292-3, in which Alice de Lisle (not yet de Segrave) is styled
"cousin and heir" to her uncle, John de Armenters, who had died many
years previously without issue. Baker cited as his source for this
document, Placit. 21 Edward I, r.43, which I assume is is the same
thing I find referenced elsewhere as Abbrev. Plac. (Rec. Comm.), 232.
If correct, then it would appear that Alice (de Armenters) de Lisle
married (2nd) in or after 1293 (date employed by Berkeley Castle
Muniments) but before 20 Jan. 1297 Sir Nicholas de Segrave, afterwards
Lord Segrave.
Custody of Alice de Armenters' was granted in 1256 to her great-uncle,
Gilbert de Gant [see Charles Roberts, Excerpta e Rotulis Finium, 2
(1836): 225]. A document in the Berkeley Castle Muniments included in
my last post indicates that Alice's marriage was subsequently acquired
by Sir Henry de Almain, son and heir of Richard, Earl of Cornwall. Sir
Henry de Almain had dealings with Alice and her husband, Gerard,
following their marriage. We know from other sources that Sir Henry de
Almain was cruelly murdered by his cousins, Simon and Guy de Montfort,
at Viterbo, Italy 13 March 1270/1 [see Douglas Richardson, Plantagenet
Ancestry (2004): 231]. Thus, from this information, we can be certain
that Alice de Armenters married (1st) before 13 March 1270/1 Sir Gerard
de Lisle.
Douglas Richardson
The evidence appears to suggest that Alice de Armenters, wife of Gerard
de Lisle and Nicholas de Segrave, Lord Segrave, had some descent from
the Picot family of Church Brampton, Northamptonshire. Baker's History
and Antiquities of the County of Northampton, 1 (1822-1830): 443 stated
in a chart that Alice de Armenters' unnamed mother was a daughter of
Peter Picot, of Church Bampton, Northamptonshire. While this may be
true, he assigned Alice's unnamed mother as a second wife of Alice's
grandfather, Geoffrey de Armenters, whereas she is probably the same
person as Alice (living 1266), the wife of Geoffrey's son, Henry de
Armenters. Unfortunately Baker gave no documentation to support the
alleged Picot connection, but, as we will see below, Baker probably got
his information from a court case of some sort which presumably alleged
an Armenters-Picot connection.
That Alice (de Armenters) (de Lisle) de Segrave had a Picot connection
is suggested by the descent of the manor and advowson of Church
Brampton, Northamptonshire and other properties. The historian John
Bridges shows that a Thomas Picot presented to the church at Church
Brampton in 1230, and that a Sir Peter Picot presented to the church
there in 1265 [Reference: John Bridges, History and Antiquities of
Northamptonshire, 1 (1791): 490]. By 1296, the property was in the
hands of Sir Robert Peverel, who presented to the church in 1296.
Sometime in or before 1314, Sir Robert Peverel was wrangling with Alice
de Armenters regarding the manor and advowson of Church Brampton. In
that year, Robert Peverel presented to the church there and Bridges
adds that Robert Peverel had "recup. praes. versus Dom. Mich. [recte
Nich.] de Segrave Mil. & Alic. uxor ejus." Evidently Peverel's victory
was temporary, as in 1315-6, lands and the advowson of Church Brampton
were settled on Alice de Armenters' daughter, Maud de Segrave. In
1329-30 Edmund Peverel, son of Robert, launched a counterattack against
Maud de Segrave and her husband, Edmund de Bohubn, in the court of
common pleas for the recovery of lands in Church Brampton. The
premises were likewise claimed by Alice de Armenters' grandson, Gerard
de Lisle [see John Bridges, History and Antiquities of
Northamptonshire, 1 (1791): 489].
It is not certain how Sir Robert Peverel obtained his interest in
Church Brampton, Northamptonshire, but presumably it was one of the
many acquisitions of his high powered brother, Bishop Walter Langton,
Treasurer of England. Besides Church Brampton, Walter Langton at one
time owned the manors of Elmedon and Chrishall, Essex, after which
Elmedon passed to Nicholas de Segrave, husband of Alice de Armenters,
and Chrishall passed to the Peverel family. This is indicated by the
petition below found in the helpful online National Archives catalogue
(http://www.catalogue.nationalarchives.gov.uk/search.asp):
SC 8/123/6110
Date: 1322-1324
Scope and content
Petitioners: Abbot and Convent of Lesnes.
Addressees: King and Council.
Places mentioned: Lesnes, [Kent]; Elmedon, [Essex]; Crishale
(Chishill), [Essex].
Other people mentioned: Walter de Langton, former Treasurer of England;
Edward [I], King of England; Nicholas de Segrave (Seagrave); Edmund de
Bohun; Matilda (Maud) [de Bohun], daughter and heir of Nicholas de
Segrave.
Nature of request: The Abbot and Convent of Lesnes request the
restoration of the view of frankpledge appertaining to their manor of
Elmdon. They state that this had belonged to them since the foundation
of the abbey, but had been taken from them by Walter de Langton, and
they had been unable to recover it due to the power of the next holder,
Nicholas de Segrave. It is now in the hands of the escheator following
Segrave's death.
Endorsement: While the manor contained within is in the hands of the
king by reason of the trespass of Edmund de Bohun, who married Matilda,
daughter and heiress of Nicholas de Segrave, the abbot should wait
while the manor so remains." END OF QUOTE.
Research suggests that the Peter Picot of Church Brampton,
Northamptonshire, living in 1265, is the same individual who appeared
in an earlier pedigree I posted for the descendants of Robert de Lucy,
of Chrishall and Elmedon, Essex. Robert de Lucy in turn was likely a
brother of Sir Richard de Lucy (died 1179), Chief Justiciar of England.
If correct, then it appears that Alice (de Armenters) (de Lisle) de
Segrave is perhaps a long lost descendant of Robert de Lucy.
A1. Robert de Lucy, of Chrishall, Essex, m. Emme _____.
B4. Agnes de Lucy, +before 1222, m. _____ de Somery
C1. Miles de Somery, of Haslingfield, Cambridgeshire and North
Mimms, Hertfordshire (+1229)
D6. Muriel de Somery, m. Thomas Picot, of Ratcliffe-on-Soar,
Nottinghamshire (+1255)
E1. Peter Picot, +1286
Commentary available in the Berkeley Castle Muniments in the online A2A
Catalogue states that a later Peter Picot died in 1313, after which
Alice de Armenters' 2nd husband, Nicholas de Segrave, bought the
interests of two of Peter Picot's heirs at Heydon, Essex, namely his
sister, Isabel Touke, and his nephew, Simon de Seneville. It was about
this same time that Alice de Armenters also recovered the manor and
advowson of Church Brampton, Northamptonshire from Sir Robert Peverel,
on an assize of mort d'ancestor, and settled it on her daughter, Maud
de Segrave. My impression is that Alice de Armenters, must have been
another of the heirs of the Peter Picot who died in 1313. This would
presumably also have made her in turn one of the co-heirs of the
earlier Lucy family. In short order, she rapidly bought out her fellow
relatives, and became the sole owner of Elmedon and Heydon, Essex. She
also sued to recover Church Brampton, Northamptonshire, which had
belonged to the earlier Peter Picot, living in 1265.
Further research needs to be done in the records to prove the exact
connection between Alice de Armenters and the Picot and Lucy families.
But, surely such a connection exists, as Alice de Armenters claimed the
manor and advowson of Church Brampton, Northamptonshire, previously a
Picot family property, in an assize of morte d'ancestor. Such a court
case would have looked something like this:
"The King to the sheriff greeting. If A shall make you secure, &c. then
summon, &c. twelve free and lawful men of the neighbourhood of
Trumpington that they be before our justices at the first assize when
they shall come into those parts, ready to recognise by oath if B
father [mother, brother, sister, uncle, aunt,] of the aforesd A was
seised in his demesne as of fee, of one messuage with the appurtenances
in Trumpington the day whereon he died, and if he died after [the
period of limitation] and if the same A be his next heir: and in the
mean time let them view the messuage, and cause their names to be put
in the writ, and summon by good summoners X who now holds the aforesaid
messuage, that he may be there to hear that recognizance; and have
there the summoners and this writ [F.N.B. 195E]." END OF QUOTE.
In other words, Alice de Armenters claimed Church Brampton by virtue of
being the heir of an earlier owner of the property. I presume Alice's
ancestor was Sir Peter Picot, who presented to the church at Church
Brampton in 1265. If Alice so identified her grandfather as being Sir
Peter Picot, and, if Baker saw this lawsuit, it would explain why he
stated in his history that Alice de Armenters' mother was the daughter
of Peter Picot, of Church Brampton.
Comments are invited.
Douglas Richardson
In my last post, I explored the possibility that the mother of Alice
(de Armenters) (de Lisle) de Segrave might be a daughter of Sir Peter
Picot (died 1286), of Church Brampton, Northamptonshire, as alleged by
George Baker, Hist. & Antiqs. of the County of Northampton, 1
(1822-1830): 443. Reviewing the records, however, it is clear that
Alice de Armenters' mother can not have been a child of this man. In
1313, Sir Peter Picot's younger son, Peter the younger, died without
issue and his sole heirs were determined to be his sister, Isabel
Touke, and a nephew, Simon de Senvyll [Reference: Cal. IPM, 5 (1908):
249]. At that point, however, Alice de Armenters is stated to have
bought the rights of these two Picot heirs to family property at
Heydon, Essex. She also appears to have filed a morte d'ancestor
lawsuit against Sir Robert Peverel for the former Picot manor and
advowson of Church Brampton, Northamptonshire. It is unclear on what
basis Alice de Armenters filed such a lawsuit, as she wasn't descended
from either Sir Peter Picot (died 1286) or either of his sons, John and
Peter. In fact, judging from the chronology, Alice can not have been a
grandchild of Sir Peter Picot (died 1286). She can, however, have been
his niece. If so, the possibility exists that Alice's mother, Alice de
Armenters, the elder, was a daughter of Thomas Picot, died 1255, and
his wife, Muriel de Somery.
The pedigree below shows the descent of the Picot family:
A1. Thomas Picot, of Ratcliffe-on-Soar, Nottinghamshire (+1255), m.
Muriel de Somery. He presented to Church Brampton, Northamptonshire in
1230, after a dispute with Ralph de la Hay.
B1. Peter Picot, Knt., of Ratcliffe-on-Soar, Nottinghamshire,
Haslingfield, Cambridgeshire, Elmedon and Heydon, Essex, North Mimms,
Middlesex, died 1286. The name of his wife is unknown. He presented
to Church Brampton, Northamptonshire in 1265 and to North Mimms,
Middlesex in 1277.
C1. John Picot, 1st son, of Ratcliffe-on-Soar, Nottinghamshire,
born c. 1252-1265 (aged 21, 24, 34 in 1286), died c. 1293-4, m. Hawise.
They had no issue. His widow, Hawise, m. (2nd) Thomas Barkeby.
C2. Peter Picot, 2nd son, of Ratcliffe-on-Soar, Nottinghamshire,
Heydon and Chrishall, Essex, etc., died 1313, m. Joan _____. They had
no issue. In 1304-1305 he conveyed property in Chrishall, Essex to
Walter de Langton, Bishop of Coventry & Lichfield.
C3. Margery Picot, died before 1314, married _____ Senvyll.
D1. Simon de Senvyll, born c. 1273 (aged 40 in 1313), living
1314.
C4. Isabel Picot, born c. 1263 (aged 50 in 1313), living 1314,
married _____ Touke.
It is difficult to know why George Baker thought Alice de Armenters'
mother was a daughter of Sir Peter Picot, as Baker did not document his
statement. My best guess is that Baker saw a transcript of the lawsuit
dated c. 1314 between Alice (de Armenters) (de Lisle) de Segrave and
Sir Robert Peverel relating to the manor and advowson of Church
Brampton. I assume that Alice made some claim to being related to Sir
Peter Picot in that lawsuit. The basis of her claim was evidently
derived from her having bought out Sir Peter Picot's two immediate
descendants, as well as the claims of a certain Alice, widow of John
Picot (see further below regarding Alice Picot). If Alice de Armenters
was Sir Peter Picot's next heir after Sir Peter Picot's daughter and
grandson, for example his niece, presumably she could have then filed a
lawsuit to recover Church Brampton. This is pure speculation until the
lawsuit between Alice de Armenters and Sir Robert Peverel is located
and examined. For now, it is sufficient to say that Alice de
Armenters' mother, Alice (living 1266), can not have been a child of
Sir Peter Picot, as alleged by George Baker.
For interest's sake, the following records below were found in the
National Archives catalogue which pertain to the Picot family above.
E 40/5141 Grant by John son of Saer son of Henry de London', to Thomas
de Leuekenor, of the manor of Schenlee, with the advowson of the church
there and of the chapel of Colneye. Witnesses:- Sirs Robert de Munteny,
Peter Picot, Hubert de Munchensi, and Adam de Sumery, knights, and
others (named): [Herts.
E 326/1405 Covenant between Peter Picot and Henry de Pinkeny relative
to a messuage, land, and mill in Dodenho in the parish of Elmedone held
by him. Each to have an entire moiety of services, &c., due from the
said messuage, land, and mill, viz., by receiving the same in alternate
years. Essex
DL 25/2218 John Pycot son and heir of Peter Pycot, knight, to Edmund,
Earl of Lancaster: Grant of rents in the mills of Marchington
(Mersington) and Barton [-under-Needwood]: (Staffs).
C 47/22/3/126 Request from William de Ferrars, lord of Leuchars, to
the Chancellor for protection for Sir Piers Picot and Sir Alexander de
Harcas going with him to Scotland. 1301 [Query - if this is the right
date. DR].
C 143/63/16 Peter Pycot to have view of frankpledge in Ratcliffe on
Soar, with the assize of bread and ale, pillory, tumbrel, infangthef,
and gallows, for a fixed rent. Notts. 35 EDWARD I.
C 143/73/21 Peter Pycot to settle two thirds of the manor of
Ratcliffe-on-Soar, and the reversion of the third part held in dower by
Helewyse, wife of Thomas de Barkeby, on himself, Joan his wife, and his
heirs, retaining the manor of Heydon, Essex. (Writ dated 8 June. 2
EDWARD II.
C 143/94/15 Peter Pycot to grant two-thirds of the manor of
Ratcliffe-on-Soar, and the reversion of the third part held by Thomas
de Barkeby and Heloise his wife of the inheritance of the grantor, to
Ralph Basset of Drayton, retaining a messuage and land in
Ratcliffe-on-Soar. 6 EDWARD II.
C 143/103/7 John son of John Pycot to grant his reversion in land and
rent in Heydon now held by Alice, late the wife of John Pycot, in
dower, to William Launcelyn of Hail-Weston. Essex. Joan late the wife
of Peter Pycot to retain for life the manor of Heydon acquired by the
said Joan and Peter from Robert Rose. 7 EDWARD II.
C 143/173/18 Isabel late the wife of Robert de Scales to retain a
quarter of the manor of Haslingfield acquired by herself and Robert
from William de Monte Caniso, and another quarter similarly acquired
from Peter Pycot, to themselves and the heirs of Robert. Camb. 17
EDWARD II.
SC 8/67/3306 Petitioners: Joan [Pycot], widow of Peter Pycot.
Addressees: King and council. Places mentioned: Flaflore (Flawford),
Nottinghamshire. Other people mentioned: Peter Pycot, formerly Sheriff
of Nottinghamshire and Derbyshire, husband of petitioner; Edward [II],
King of England; Richard de Thorp, Keeper of the lands of the Templars
in Nottinghamshire; the Order of the Temple (Knights Templars). [c.
1330]
SC 8/67/3307 Petitioners: Alice Pycot. Addressees: King. Places
mentioned: Heydon, [Essex]. Other people mentioned: Nicholas de
Segrave; Edmund de Bohun. Nature of request: Alice Pycot states that
she delivered her lands to Nicholas de Segrave in return for an annual
rent of 5 marks, but that since the land has been in the King's
wardship because of Nicholas' death, her rent has not been paid.
[1321-1324]
SC 8/67/3326 Petitioners: Alice Pikot (Pycot) of Heydon. Addressees:
King and council. Places mentioned: Heydon, [Essex]; Thorley,
Hertfordshire; Storteforde (Bishop's Stortford), Hertfordshire; St
Albans, [Hertfordshire]; Westminster. Other people mentioned: Richard
de Katesbiri; Robert de Rudham, chaplain; William de Berford
(Bereford), justice of the Bench. [1319]
mj...@btinternet.com
This has been a very interesting series of posts - much appreciated.
You may have seen the recent posts on the topic between Henry Sutcliff
and myself, and the details of Thoroton's text about the Picots at
Ratcliffe. According to my notes, he also refers to contemporary
Picots at Barow (sic) in Leicestershire: e.g. Alexander and Robert
resident there tempus Henry III - Edward II; Peter Picot 27 Henry II,
30 Henry II.
Sarah Picot of Ratcliffe is said to have married William de la Hay of
Shepreth, Foxton and Papworth Everard, Cambs, and by him had a daughter
and heiress Margaret, first wife of Sir John Engaine.
According to a note I have made [I can't lay my hands on the original
at present, which is irritating as it would give sources] which states
that Margaret de la Hay was also "kinswoman and next heir" of Alice,
widow of Sir John Heslerton of Fowlmere and Harston - if through her
mother, perhaps this could be another part of the Picot jigsaw.
Best wishes
Michael