Additional Correction CP ? Stanley-Troutbeck-Boteler/Butler
leo van de pas
Sir William Troutbeck of Dunham was born 13 July 1436 and died in 1464. He
married Margaret Stanley.
According to Weis, Ancestral Roots page 24,
he was born circa 1432 and died in 1459. Also in 1459
he married Margaret Stanley. I am sure this is correct as, in 1460, she
marries Sir John Butler/Boteler of Bewsey.
This leaves less than a year of marriage but, still, Paget gives Sir William
Troutbeck and Margaret Stanley three children,
Adam (O 24843), Robert (P58999) and Joan (Q120196).
Margaret's second husband, Sir John Butler/Boteler, is also important as he
is the father-in-law of Adam Troutbeck (O 24843). Incredibly, all these
people are ancestors of Prince Charles. Sir John Butler/Boteler and Margaret
Stanley had a son Thomas, recorded by Paget as P55215.
Weis also tells us that Margaret Stanley married as her third husband "Lord
Grey of Codnor". What I find confusing is that Weis gives as one source (by
Margaret Stanley) CP IV 205. If he had given this under her parents, I would
have understood. I need a magnifying glass to reed the footnotes, which is
most of that page, but I cannot find a mention of Margaret.
However, who is this Lord Grey of Codnor? I think it must be Sir Henry Grey,
Lord Grey of Codnor, (CP VI 130-131-132) born circa 1435, he married, first
shortly after 31 August 1454 Catherine Strangways; secondly in or before
1474 Margaret; thirdly in or after 1486 and before 5 May 1492 Catherine
Stourton.
If this second wife is Margaret Stanley, then at least we know she died
before 1486. I think, chronologically, this all would fit. Does anyone know
any more to confirm or refute these details? And how do we give her three
children in less than one year of marriage to her first husband?
Best wishes
Leo van de Pas
Canberra, Australia
Kay Allen AG
leo van de pas wrote:
> According to Gerald Paget (P 49685)
> Sir William Troutbeck of Dunham was born 13 July 1436 and died in 1464. He
> married Margaret Stanley.
Paget is, once again, incorrect. Sir William was born 20 July 1432. This is
from J. P. Earwaker, _Hist. St. Mary's, Chester_. Same source, he married
Margaret in 1448; d. at Blore Heath 23 September 1459.
>
>
> According to Weis, Ancestral Roots page 24,
> he was born circa 1432 and died in 1459. Also in 1459
> he married Margaret Stanley. I am sure this is correct as, in 1460, she
> marries Sir John Butler/Boteler of Bewsey.
The marriage had to have taken place much, much earlier as Trans. Salop. Arch
Soc. ser. 1 vol 7 (1884):371 says that Sir William's eldest son, William was
ten years of age in his IPM.
>
>
> This leaves less than a year of marriage but, still, Paget gives Sir William
> Troutbeck and Margaret Stanley three children,
> Adam (O 24843), Robert (P58999) and Joan (Q120196).
Again, wrong, William, Adam. Thomas/Robert, Alice, Jane, Elizabeth. Ormerod.
>
>
> Margaret's second husband, Sir John Butler/Boteler, is also important as he
> is the father-in-law of Adam Troutbeck (O 24843). Incredibly, all these
> people are ancestors of Prince Charles. Sir John Butler/Boteler and Margaret
> Stanley had a son Thomas, recorded by Paget as P55215.
There is some discussion as to who is the mother of Adam's dtr. Margaret. Adam
had a second marriage.
>
>
> Weis also tells us that Margaret Stanley married as her third husband "Lord
> Grey of Codnor". What I find confusing is that Weis gives as one source (by
> Margaret Stanley) CP IV 205. If he had given this under her parents, I would
> have understood. I need a magnifying glass to reed the footnotes, which is
> most of that page, but I cannot find a mention of Margaret.
Ormerod gives the date for a dispensation for the marriage of Margaret and Sir
William as 23 january 1459, which is why it seems that they were only married
one year; 1461 as date of marriage to Sir John Butler and 2 October 1465 to
Lord Grey of Codnor.
Hope this helps.
Kay Allen AG
Brad Verity
> Comments interspersed.
>
> leo van de pas wrote:
>
> > According to Gerald Paget (P 49685)
> > Sir William Troutbeck of Dunham was born 13 July 1436 and died in 1464. He
> > married Margaret Stanley.
>
> Paget is, once again, incorrect. Sir William was born 20 July 1432. This is
> from J. P. Earwaker, _Hist. St. Mary's, Chester_. Same source, he married
> Margaret in 1448; d. at Blore Heath 23 September 1459.
>
> >
> >
> > According to Weis, Ancestral Roots page 24,
> > he was born circa 1432 and died in 1459. Also in 1459
> > he married Margaret Stanley. I am sure this is correct as, in 1460, she
> > marries Sir John Butler/Boteler of Bewsey.
>
> The marriage had to have taken place much, much earlier as Trans. Salop. Arch
> Soc. ser. 1 vol 7 (1884):371 says that Sir William's eldest son, William was
> ten years of age in his IPM.
Thanks, Kay and Leo, for helping to get the many marriages of Margaret
Stanley sorted out and a chronology established.
In 1448, when Margaret is said to have married Sir William Troutbeck,
her father was not yet a baron. Sir Thomas Stanley represented
Lancashire in the House of Commons, and was a favorite and trusted
advisor of Henry VI, who made him chamberlain and comptroller of the
royal household in that same year, 1448.
The Stanleys were thus an up-and-coming family and the Troutbecks did
well by connecting to them through the marriage. It might help
explain the relative youth of the bridegroom - William Troutbeck was
only 16 if he wed in 1448. Often these teenaged marriages among the
gentry occurred if either the bride or groom was a ward of their
father-in-law. Do we have a date when Sir William Troutbeck's father
died? It could determine if he was a ward in 1448.
Anyway, I'm always on the lookout for occurence of a medieval teenager
becoming a spouse and parent, and here's a documented example - Sir
William married at 16 and a father at age 17.
> Again, wrong, William, Adam. Thomas/Robert, Alice, Jane, Elizabeth. Ormerod.
Kay, who is the source 'Ormerod'? I'd like to read up further on the
Troutbecks.
Best regards, --------Brad Verity