Vlastos
George Tsambourakis
and the only family that kept the same name for over 2000 years (if you
believe Historians).
Is there another family that can make the same claim???
Dr. George Tsambourakis
343 Major's Line Road
Tooborac, Victoria 3522, Australia
eachw...@bigpond.com.au
http://www.users.bigpond.com/eachwaynet/
norenxaq
George Tsambourakis wrote:
> I was wondering if Vlastos is the worlds oldest family in existents today
> and the only family that kept the same name for over 2000 years (if you
> believe Historians).
>
> Is there another family that can make the same claim???
Sevaral Chinese families are at least that old, if not older including
Confucius'
Pierre Aronax
used in the central Middle Ages.
Pierre
"George Tsambourakis" <eachw...@bigpond.com> a écrit dans le message de
news: 5k7Fa.52661$1s1.7...@newsfeeds.bigpond.com...
George Tsambourakis
The name Vlastos exists in numerous places including the Vatican.
There is also written evidence about the existence of the family
before the birth of Christ.
Allegedly, it is the oldest name in existence in Greece.
Dr. George Tsambourakis
343 Major's Line Road
Tooborac, Victoria 3522, Australia
eachw...@bigpond.com.au
http://www.users.bigpond.com/eachwaynet/
"Pierre Aronax" <pierre...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:3ee58ddf$0$13647$79c1...@nan-newsreader-02.noos.net...
Pierre Aronax
> You could be wrong again.
Yes of course, but statistically it is highly more probable that you are
wrong.
> The name Vlastos exists in numerous places including the Vatican.
Hrr... Syntax error! Do you suggest that a Vlastos family is established for
generations inside the walls of the Vatican ? :)))))
> There is also written evidence about the existence of the family
> before the birth of Christ.
> Allegedly, it is the oldest name in existence in Greece.
A name can have existed for many centuries, that would not mean that the
families who use it today used it for centuries! If you have a pedigree of
the Vlastos family which goes back "before the birth of Christ", please,
don't keep this gemme for you alone! :)
Pierre
Doug McDonald
> >If you have a pedigree of
> the Vlastos family which goes back "before the birth of Christ", please,
> don't keep this gemme for you alone! :)
Yes indeed, this would be the holy grail of DFA!
Let's see the line with documentation.
Doug McDonald
John Steele Gordon
news:3EE5EB4A...@scs.uiuc.edu...
I saw a book about twenty years ago that was, for some mysterious reason, in
French. It was called "Les Vlastos," and was a genealogy of the Vlasto ( not
Vlastos) family. It belonged to a friend of mine who is a member of the
family. Last I heard, his son, Chris Vlasto, was a producer for ABC News.
It does not appear in the catalogs of NYPL, LOC, or the British Library, so
I imagine it was privately printed and not easy to find. I'm fairly
confident that had it claimed a DFA I would have noticed, however.
JSG
George Tsambourakis
This ancient monument reads:
D . M .
CLODIO BLASTO
CLODIUS BLASTUS
FIL. PATRI DVLCISSIM[O]
B.M.F.
ET CLODIA CHARIS
CONIVGI B.M.F.
This monument, dating from 100-120 AD, was created in honour of Claudius
Vlasto on the initiative of his son and namesake, Claudius Vlasto. It also
commemorates his wife, Claudia Charis, as a later addition to the
inscription. Although the wording is in Latin and the names have been
Latinised, the name 'Charis' is Greek and means 'Grace', indicating that the
Greek origin is proudly acknowledged. Costas Kerofilas says that the use of
the letter B in place of V for 'Vlasto' establishes an early date for the
monument and that it belongs to a branch of the 'great Greek family which
was established early in Rome'.
The Above is one of many surviving monuments dating before and around Jesus'
birth.
This is copied from a relatives site.
http://www.christopherlong.co.uk/per.vlasto.rome.html
Unfortunately, the pictures I have can not be posted.
There is off course more evidence.
Pierre Aronax
> Rome - 100-120 AD - Memorial To Claudius Vlasto at the Vatican Museum
So it is what you mean when you said "the name Vlastos exists in numerous
places including the Vatican". In that case, all the family names recorded
in documents or inscriptions kept in the Vatican Library or in the Vatican
Museums can be said to "exist in the Vatican". That makes virtualy all
Western family names...
> This ancient monument reads:
>
> D . M .
> CLODIO BLASTO
> CLODIUS BLASTUS
> FIL. PATRI DVLCISSIM[O]
> B.M.F.
> ET CLODIA CHARIS
> CONIVGI B.M.F.
> This monument, dating from 100-120 AD, was created in honour of Claudius
> Vlasto on the initiative of his son and namesake, Claudius Vlasto. It also
> commemorates his wife, Claudia Charis, as a later addition to the
> inscription. Although the wording is in Latin and the names have been
> Latinised, the name 'Charis' is Greek and means 'Grace', indicating that
the
> Greek origin is proudly acknowledged. Costas Kerofilas says that the use
of
> the letter B in place of V for 'Vlasto' establishes an early date for the
> monument and that it belongs to a branch of the 'great Greek family which
> was established early in Rome'.
>
>
> The Above is one of many surviving monuments dating before and around
Jesus'
> birth.
No: this monument dates of the beginning of the second century AFTER JC's
birth. Read the webpage you quote!
> This is copied from a relatives site.
> http://www.christopherlong.co.uk/per.vlasto.rome.html
>
> Unfortunately, the pictures I have can not be posted.
> There is off course more evidence.
And so what? Are you suggesting that this person was a direct ancestor of
all the people who use today the name Vlastos in Greece? :)
I am not particularly expert in Roman anthroponymy, but I suspect that the
family name here is Clodius, and not Blastus. Anyway, I'm afraid you are
confusing (again) name and family (remember, you wrote "I was wondering if
Vlastos is the worlds oldest family in existents today and the only family
that kept the same name for over 2000 years (if you
believe Historians)". This time, you are not entirely responsible
nevertheless, since you seem to have been indirectly mislead by the book of
Costas Kerofilas, "Les Vlasto" (first edition New York,1932), who made the
same non-historical premise.
If we accept this kind of hypothesis, we can jump to some amusing
conclusions: I know a man here in France whose family name is Jules. "Jules"
is nothing less than the Latin Iulius. According to your way of thinking, he
must be a descendant of the gens Iulia, and so his lineage is much more
older than the Vlastos lineage. It is easy to find many surviving monuments
dating before and around Jesus' birth with his name to sustain his claim. Of
course, Julius Caesar is one of his relatives.
I know also somebody whose family name is Pharaon. :)
Pierre
PS: Of course, there is nothing like A "Vlastos family" who can trace is
genealogy back before the birth of Christ, or even back to the Middle Ages.
There is a Greek word, blastos, which means "bud", or "new growth", and
which happens to have been used as people-name in the Antiquity and again
when family names were readopted by Greeks, since the central Middle Ages
and then in the late Middle Ages and Modern period, until the present time.
It happens to have been a rather common name, which is not surprising when
one considers its sense. Of course, all people today called Vlastos do not
share necessarily a same patrilineal ancestor of that name, and in any case
this ancestor is not to be found before Christ's birth.
Pierre Aronax
<...>
> I saw a book about twenty years ago that was, for some mysterious reason, in
> French.
I see nothing of particularly mysterious here. I would find much more
mysterious a book about a Greek family which would be written in
English.
> It was called "Les Vlastos," and was a genealogy of the Vlasto ( not
> Vlastos) family.
Same thing and same thing as Blastos. The final "s" is not always
pronounced in modern Greek.
> It belonged to a friend of mine who is a member of the
> family. Last I heard, his son, Chris Vlasto, was a producer for ABC News.
>
> It does not appear in the catalogs of NYPL, LOC, or the British Library, so
> I imagine it was privately printed and not easy to find.
200 or 300 copies IIRC. It does not deserve more, rather less.
> I'm fairly
> confident that had it claimed a DFA I would have noticed, however.
It is based on the false assumption that all people called Blastos in
the two or three last millenniums belong to one and the same family.
Imagine a Mr John Smith writing a book called "The Smiths" in which he
would tell his family history beginning with all people called "faber"
in Roman inscriptions.
Pierre
George Tsambourakis
--
Dr. George Tsambourakis
343 Major's Line Road
Tooborac, Victoria 3522, Australia
eachw...@bigpond.com.au
http://www.users.bigpond.com/eachwaynet/
"Pierre Aronax" <pierre...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:3ee6f45f$0$14456$79c1...@nan-newsreader-03.noos.net...
Igor Sklar
> Rome - 100-120 AD - Memorial To Claudius Vlasto at the Vatican Museum
It reminds me of the Mkhargrdjeli-Argutashvili family of Georgia whose
name may be translated as 'long-armed'. They successfully claimed the
princely title (Emperor Paul recognized it in 1800) on the basis that
their ancestor was Artaxerxes II "Long Arm".
regards
Reedpcgen
do appearances of this name mean (1) a direct descent of lineage, in one
family, (2) or people taking their surname from a place?
If it is no more than the association of people bearing a surname taken from a
place, such an argument could be made anywhere (Londinium/Londres/London).
Do these genealogies show that it is a direct MALE descent, without break,
century after century, or a succession of lines with this surname?
Paul
George Tsambourakis
There are numerous documents with the name included, and it appears to be
the same family. It is alleged that individuals (from the Vlastos family)
were involved in negotiations between Romans and Christians and I understand
that these documents exist.
It is a fact that the Vlastos family was one of the first to own a family
"Blazon" (which is red with 3 white disks point down).
It is also a fact that they were one of the top ten most powerful families
in Byzantium. The question of course is: Why the name firstly appears
towards the end of the 12th century?
Towards the end of the 13th century, a new Blazon appeared (I believe that
it is a fake)
indicating a marriage between Vlastos and the family of an Emperor.
There is no evidence that the daughter of an Emperor ever married a Vlastos.
By the way: The Vlastos family was also very successful in Russia.
Egor Ivanovich Vlastov (1769-29.01.1837) is a Russian War Hero
Georgiy Konstantinovich Vlastov (1827-1899) Was the governor of Stavropol.
Also, I understand that the 5th or 6th grandmother of the wife/ex-fiancée of
the crown prince(?) of Denmark is Vlastos.
etc
> Do these genealogies show that it is a direct MALE descent, without break,
> century after century, or a succession of lines with this surname?
I do not believe that it is possible to find and create a direct male line.
What are the chances for the "Vlastos" mentioned in documents being the
ancestors of the Vlastos family of today, taking into account that ALL
Vlastos alive today world wide are related (That is a fact)???
Dr. George Tsambourakis
343 Major's Line Road
Tooborac, Victoria 3522, Australia
eachw...@bigpond.com.au
http://www.users.bigpond.com/eachwaynet/
"Reedpcgen" <reed...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20030611154514...@mb-m23.aol.com...
> If the surname was taken from a place, the simple and first question might
be,
> do appearances of this name mean (1) a direct descent of lineage, in one
> family, (2) or people taking their surname from a place?
>
> If it is no more than the association of people bearing a surname taken
from a
> place, such an argument could be made anywhere (Londinium/Londres/London).
>
>
> Paul
Pierre Aronax
> The name was not taken from a place and it is not a nickname.
It was originally a nickname as it is clear from its sense.
> There are numerous documents with the name included, and it appears to be
> the same family.
Appers from what? I wonder what can be the evidence to sustain the pedigree
of the present Vlastoi back to the pre-christian era! :)
> It is alleged that individuals (from the Vlastos family)
> were involved in negotiations between Romans and Christians and I
understand
> that these documents exist.
>
> It is a fact that the Vlastos family was one of the first to own a family
> "Blazon" (which is red with 3 white disks point down).
Yes, of course: in the 2d century AD!!!
> It is also a fact that they were one of the top ten most powerful families
> in Byzantium.
Extraordinary! Some exemples of this Blastoi who played a so important role
in Byzantine history?
> The question of course is: Why the name firstly appears
> towards the end of the 12th century?
As you say! Have you consider the possibility that all the people who use a
same surname during two milleniums are not necessarily genealogically
related, particularly for a surname which is obviously a nickname passed
into surname?
> Towards the end of the 13th century, a new Blazon appeared (I believe that
> it is a fake)
> indicating a marriage between Vlastos and the family of an Emperor.
> There is no evidence that the daughter of an Emperor ever married a
Vlastos.
And less evidence that any Byzantine emperor used a coat-of-arms in the 13th
century (or any other Byzantine family by the way).
> By the way: The Vlastos family was also very successful in Russia.
And so the fact that some people named Vlastov played a role in Russian
history in the 18-19 centuries is a proof that there was a Greek family
named Blastos who can proove is pedegree from before the Christ until now?
> Egor Ivanovich Vlastov (1769-29.01.1837) is a Russian War Hero
> Georgiy Konstantinovich Vlastov (1827-1899) Was the governor of Stavropol.
>
> Also, I understand that the 5th or 6th grandmother of the wife/ex-fiancée
of
> the crown prince(?) of Denmark is Vlastos.
Same remark.
> etc
>
> > Do these genealogies show that it is a direct MALE descent, without
break,
> > century after century, or a succession of lines with this surname?
>
> I do not believe that it is possible to find and create a direct male
line.
How?
> What are the chances for the "Vlastos" mentioned in documents being the
> ancestors of the Vlastos family of today,
Nihil.
> taking into account that ALL
> Vlastos alive today world wide are related (That is a fact)???
What are the evidence to sustain this "fact"?
Pierre
Igor Sklar
At first I thought that surname of these people stemmed from the
Russian word for 'power' (vlast'). But now that I checked it, I see
that they really were Greeks.
George Tsambourakis
Dr. George Tsambourakis
343 Major's Line Road
Tooborac, Victoria 3522, Australia
eachw...@bigpond.com.au
http://www.users.bigpond.com/eachwaynet/
"Pierre Aronax" <pierre...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:3ee847c6$0$23010$79c1...@nan-newsreader-03.noos.net...
George Tsambourakis
> At first I thought that surname of these people stemmed from the
> Russian word for 'power' (vlast'). But now that I checked it, I see
> that they really were Greeks.
Do you think "Vlast" (power) is a Greek word?
Vlastos means freely translated "Power of life". Life begins with
"Vlastos",
and without Vlastos there will be no life.
So, the word "Power" is not a wrong translation but an incomplete one.
The word "Vlast" is used for numerous purposes, even in Geology
"Porphyro-blast" etc.
As I said, the name "Vlastos" is not a nickname and it is not a name
of a place/city etc.
However, it is possible that in early Christian times, someone had
"Healing powers" or something the people considered as
"powers" and from then on they were referring to him as "Vlastos".
Who knows.
regards
Dr. George Tsambourakis
343 Major's Line Road
Tooborac, Victoria 3522, Australia
eachw...@bigpond.com.au
http://www.users.bigpond.com/eachwaynet/
"Igor Sklar" <skla...@yandex.ru> wrote in message
news:5a635d65.03061...@posting.google.com...