Re: Neville of Scotton / Cauntelo /Ros of Ingmanthorpe /De La Haye of Arlington
Jwc...@aol.com
Your premise is interesting. If for
instance Julian (possbly de Haudeneby) was say the eldest daughter of one
Haudeneby who took possession of several manors after marrying one Philip who took
her name and not being able to concieve an heir adopted one and her
siblings discovering the truth was in the large part disinherited
.William de Trian apparently married a sister and had Robert and Eustache
Trian. William was dead by 1206 when a Philip d`Aubigny who may or not have
been the 5th Crusade knight had a wife Joan, most probably a relative of
the others. this Philip probably is the same as served as Ralph de Neville of
Scotton`s baliff. Ralph was the father of that Robert de Neville of
Scotton who married that Eustache Trian in or shortly before 1214. Philip was
very possibly Ralph`s brother-in-law. Now, the sequence of events may have
been something like this:
Eustache de Trian married say 1221 or 22
Ralph IV de Haye son of Ralph III de la Haye ( a frenchman) by Sarah de
Burwell by whom she had a son John de la Haye who married and had a daughter
(ca 1240) de la Haye who married Sir Ralph Fitzhugh de Gresley hand had
Eustache (abt 1255) Fitzralph wife of Nicholas Cauntelo and 2nd William de
Roos with issue to both. Nicholas` son William Cauntelo died in William de
Ros` lifetime and William tried with Eustache to acquire the wardship of
William Cauntelo`s infant son Nicholas.
Sincerely,
James W Cummings
Dixmont, Maine USA
note: Philip de Neville was uncle to de Gresley`s de la Haye wife and his
son Robert de Neville, the 2nd husband of Angharad ferch Gruffydd was own
cousin to Eustache (de Gresley) (de Cauntelo) de Ros, lady of Ingmanthorpe
John Watson
Hi James,
Thanks for the interesting post. You have me a bit confused however,
with the de la Haye family. Here's what I have, please point out where
you think this may be incorrect:
1. Ranulf de la Haye, the seneschal of Robert count of Mortain.
Witness to the charter of foundation of the abbey of Lessay on 14 July
1080, together with his son Robert. Married a daughter of Richard,
called Turtin Haldup,
2. Robert de la Haye, one of Henry I's new men. Given lands forfeited
in Sussex by William de Ansleville, known as the honour of Halnaker.
Acquired the Lincolnshire barony of Colswein by marriage with his
daughter Muriel, by whom he had two sons, Richard and Ralph. In 1105,
he gave, with his wife's approval, to Lessay, seven churches in
England. In 1118, at the time of the Lindsay Survey, holding lands in
Lincolnshire. In 1123 confirmed the gifts to Lessay of Richard, called
Turstin Haldup and Eudo his son the founders of that abbey, and his
own gifts. Confirmed by Henry I in 1126.
3. Ralph de la Hay, younger son of Robert. Given the lands of Ansgot
de Burwell by Henry I which had escheated to the crown. In 1162,
Ricardo de Haia and Radulfo de Haia witnessed the charter of William
de Sancto Johanne, Robert his brother and Olive his wife giving the
abbey of the Holy Trinity, Luzerne (Lucerna) and the canons regular
there serving God, the site of the abbey, and the church of St. Jean.
4. Robert de la Haye, presumably son of Ralph de la Haye. Was holding
Burwell in 1204, when he gave 200 jars [jars of what?] to king John to
have a market at Burwell. Presumably gave up his French lands.
5. Ralph de la Haye, presumably son of Robert, was holding Burwell in
1234. Married firstly Eustache Trian and secondly Isabel de Montague.
He died in 1254.
There may be another Ralph between 3 and 4.
Regards,
John