Ancestry of Matilda of Apulia: the dukes of Naples

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John P. Ravilious

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Jan 24, 2007, 8:05:05 PM1/24/07
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Wednesday, 24 January, 2007


Hello All,

Patricia Skinner's "Family Power in Southern Italy" provides a
great deal of detail on the history and politics of southern Italy
from 850 through 1139. Among the details she provides concerning
the dukes of Naples is a useful genealogical chart (p. 48), giving
the descent from the parents of Sergius I (duke, 840-865) down to
Sergius VII (1123-1127). The particular item that is of wide
interest is the notation concerning Gemma, wife of Landolf 'I' of
Benevento, prince of Benevento, and Capua (d. 943), daughter of
Athanasius II, Bishop (later Duke) of Naples (d. 898).

Presuming the accuracy of the account provided, this extends
the known ancestry (at least for the non-Italian reading quorum)
of Matilda, daughter of Robert 'Guiscard' and Sigelgaita of
Salerno, by some 5 generations. As she is ancestral to both
Eleanor of Provence (queen of Henry III of England) and Eleanor
of Castile (daughter-in-law of the aforementioned), her progeny
includes a host of the usual royal and non-royal cast of
characters, list members included.

Should anyone note any relevant additional documentation,
or have comment or correction to the following pedigree, I'd
be glad to hear of it.

Cheers,

John *


NOTE: This chart follows the princes of Benevento and Capua,
and 'by-passes' the Salerno descent. See notations at
generations 1.1.1.1.1.1, and 1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1


* John P. Ravilious

=================================================

Ancestry of Matilda of Apulia:
the Dukes of Naples, and the Princes of Capua

1 Marinus of Naples
----------------------------------------


cf. Skinner, p. 48[1]

Spouse: Euprassia

Children: Sergius I (-0865)


1.1 Sergius I of Naples
----------------------------------------
Death: 0865[1]

Duke of Naples

cf. Skinner, pp. 47-48[1]

Children: Gregory III (-0870)
Athanasius I, Bishop of Naples
Stephen, Bishop of Sorrento
Cesarius


1.1.1 Gregory III of Naples
----------------------------------------
Death: 0870[1]

Duke of Naples

ruler together with his father, 850
Duke of Naples 864-870

cf. Skinner, p. 47[1]

Children: Sergius II, Duke of Naples (-878)
Athanasius (-0898)


1.1.1.1 Athanasius of Naples
----------------------------------------
Death: 0898[1]

Duke of Naples, 878-898

Bishop of Naples, 878

deposed and blinded his brother Sergius, 878
assumed title of Duke of Naples

cf. Skinner, pp. 47 et seq.[1]

Children: Gemma (-0961)


1.1.1.1.1 Gemma of Naples
----------------------------------------
Death: 0961[2]

' ..bishop-duke Athanasius' daughter Gemma was married to Landolf, son
of Atenulf of Capua-Benevento in 897.' [Skinner, p. 49[1], cites
Cassandro, 'Ducato', p. 120]

Spouse: Landolf I, prince of Benevento
Death: 0943[3]
Father: Atenolf I of Benevento (-0910)
Mother: Sigelgaita
Marr: 0897[1]

Children: Landolf II (-0961)


1.1.1.1.1.1 Landolf II of Benevento
----------------------------------------
Death: 27 May 0961[3]

prince of Benevento, and Capua 943-961

ruled jointly with his son Pandolf, 943 - :
charter dated Jan. 960,
' In nomine domini anno Vicesimo primo domni landolfi gloriosi
principis et anno Septimo decimo principatus domni paldolfi filii
eius, mense ianuarius tertia indictione ' [Codex Cavensis I,
No. CCVII[4]]

cf. R. Borthwick[3]

Spouse: Wanzia

Children: Sigelgaita, m. John II of Salerno [see below]
Pandolf I 'Iron-Head' (-0981)
Landolf III


1.1.1.1.1.1.1 Pandolf I 'Iron-Head' de Capua
----------------------------------------
Death: 0981[3]

prince of Benevento and Capua, 943- 981

ruled jointly with his father, 943 - 960 :
charter dated Jan. 960,
' In nomine domini anno Vicesimo primo domni landolfi gloriosi
principis et anno Septimo decimo principatus domni paldolfi filii
eius, mense ianuarius tertia indictione ' [Codex Cavensis I,
No. CCVII[4]]

allied with Pope John XIII, 966
created duke of Spoleto, 967 by the Emperor Otto

also prince of Salerno, 974-981 - restored prince Gisulf to the
principality, as his vassal (cf. charter to Master Nicholas, 974
which names Prince Gisulf of Salerno and his wife, and "son" Pandolf
['Nos gisolfus et gemma vir et uxor et paldolfus optatus filius
noster...' - [Codex Cavensis II:87-88, No. CCLXXX[4]]

ruled jointly with his son, 970 - 981 :
charter dated Jul. 973,
' In nomine Domini nostri Iesu Christi Dei eterni anno tricesimo
principatus domni Paldolfi, et tercio anno principatus domni
Landolfi, eius filii, gloriosi principibus, mense Iulio,secunda
indiccione.' [Gattola, Hist. I, 43]

___________________

' At this time the lord of the holy Roman see was pope John [XII], son
of a patrician, a certain Alberic. From childhood he was dedicated
to vices. He ordered that an army be gathered together and collected
not only Romans but also Tuscians and Spoletans: a huge multitude,
with which he marched against Capua. Prince Pandolf then sent to his
relative in Salerno and asked the most glorious prince Gisolf to run
to his aid without delay. [The papal army hears of this and
retreats.] ' [Chronicon Salernitanum, 166[5]]

cf. Borthwick[3]

Children: Landolf IV (-0983)


1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1 Landolf IV de Capua
----------------------------------------
Death: 0983[3]

prince of Capua and Benevento 981-983

cf. Richard Borthwick[3]

Children: Pandolf III (-1014)


1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1 Pandolf III de Capua
----------------------------------------
Death: 13 Aug 1014[3]
Occ: prince of Capua

prince of Capua

ruled jointly with his father, 973-983
prince in his own right, 983-1014

ruled jointly with son Landolf, 987-1014
charter dated Feb. 993, "In nomine domini duodecimo anno domni
paldolfi gloriosus princeps et sexto anno principatus domni
landolfi filii eius, mense februarius.." [Codex Cavensis III:1,
No. CCCCLIX[4]]

cf. R. Borthwick[3]

Children: Landolf
Pandolf IV (ca0985-)
Atenulf, abbot of Montecassino (-1022)
Gaitelgrima


1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1 Gaitelgrima de Capua
----------------------------------------

regent for her son Guaimar IV, 1027

cf. R. Borthwick[3]
Norwich, pp. 35 et seq.[6]

Spouse: Guaimar III de Salerno
Death: 1027[7],[6]
Father: John II de Salerno (-0999) [see above]
Mother: Sigelgaita of Benevento

Children: John (-<1027)
Guaimar IV (ca1011-1052)
Guido
Paldolf, lord of Capaccio


1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1 Guaimar IV de Salerno
----------------------------------------
Birth: ca 1011[6]
Death: 3 Jul 1052[3]

prince of Salerno 1027-1052

ruled jointly with father, ca. 1022-1027:
charter dated 1022, ' In the reign of princes Guaimarius and
Guaimarius...' [Skinner, trans. Codex Cavensis IV,
No. DCCXXXVIII, DCCXLI[8]]

aged 16 on his father's death [Norwich, p. 35[6]]

allied with Conrad, king of Germany and overthrew his uncle
Pandolf IV of Capua, 1038
Duke of Apulia and Calabria, in alliance with William
Iron-Arm, 1042[6]

cf. Genealogics[7], cites ES II 205
Skinner, pp. 622-641[9]
Norwich, pp. 35, 42[6]


Spouse: Gemma
Father: Laidolf

Children: NN, m. Drogo de Hauteville
Gisulf
Guy
Gaitelgrima
Sigelgaita (ca1040-1090)
Landolf, lord of Sanseverino


1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1 Sigelgaita de Salerno[10]
----------------------------------------
Birth: ca 1040[9]
Death: 27 Jul 1090

cf. Skinner, pp. 622-641[9]

Spouse: Robert 'Guiscard', duke of Apulia
Birth: 1016[6]
Father: Tancred de Hauteville
Mother: Fressenda
Marr: 1058[9]

Children: Matilda (ca1060-ca1108)
Roger 'Borsa', duke of Apulia (ca1061-1111)
Sibilla, m. Ebles II, count of Roucy
Guido, duke of Amalfi


1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1 Matilda of Apulia[11]
----------------------------------------
Birth: ca 1060[12]
Death: ca 19 Sep 1108, Gerona (d. a nun)[12],[11]


' Maud (Mafalda, aka Maaltis), born 1059/60, regent of Narbonne
from 1105, died as a nun, probably at Gerona on 19 September
1108, married first (before 13 July 1078) Ramón Berenguer II,
called 'Cabeza de Estopa', count of Barcelona (born before
25 March 1054, murdered at Perxa del Astor 5 December 1082);
and secondly in 1085 Aymeric I, viscount of Narbonne (died
on crusade in Palestine 1105). She left descendants by both
husbands. '[12]

~ relationship as daughter of Robert Guiscard also supported by T.
Farmerie, citing monograph by Vajay[10]

Spouse: Ramon-Berengar II, count of Catalonia/Barcelona
Birth: bef 25 Mar 1054[12],[11]
Death: 5 Dec 1082, Perxa del Astor {murdered
(allegedly by brother)}[12],[11],[13]
Father: Ramon-Berengar I of Catalonia (1023-1076)
Mother: Adelmode de la Marche (-1071)
Marr: bef 13 Jul 1078[12],[11]

Children: Ramon-Berengar III, count of Barcelona
(also Raymond, count of Provence) (1082-1131)
Almodis

1. Patricia Skinner, "Family Power in Southern Italy: the duchy of
Gaeta and its neighbours, 850-1139," Cambridge: Cambridge Univ.
Press, 1995, Cambridge Studies in Medieval Life and Thought,
Fourth Series.
2. Richard Borthwick, "Sigelgaita, Princess of Salerno," 5 June
1998, GEN-MED...@rootsweb.com, cites G Talamo Atenolfi,
"La regione di Velia e gli Epigoni della Dinastia longobarda
salernitana" *Archivi* XXVIII, 1961, 7-34, and also ES
(following A Sanfelice di Monteforte (1962)).
3. Richard Borthwick, "Mother of SIKELGAITA OF SALERNO," 15
August 1998, GEN-MED...@rootsweb.com, cites G Talamo
Atenolfi, and also ES (following A Sanfelice di Monteforte
(1962)).
4. Michaele Morcaldi, Mauro Schiani and Sylvano de Stephano,
eds., "Codex Diplomaticus Cavensis," Naples: Pietro Piazzi
[Vol I]; Milan: Ulrich Hoepli, Milan, Vol I - 1873, Vol
II - 1875, Vol III - 1876, Vol IV - 1877.
5. Dr. Patricia Skinner, "Extracts from the Chronicon Salernitanum,"
courtesy Dr. Patricia Skinner, University of Southampton,
URL http://www.soton.ac.uk/~pes1/docssal.html
6. John Julius Norwich, "The Normans in Sicily," London: Penguin
Books`, 1992.
7. "Genealogics," website by Leo van de Pas, www.genealogics.com,
cites Europäische Stammtafeln, J.A. Stargardt Verlag Marburg.,
Detlev Schwennicke, Editor, [ES], and other sources.
8. Dr. Patricia Skinner, "Documents from Salerno and region, 11th
century," published documents from Codex Diplomaticus Cavensis,
courtesy Dr. Patricia Skinner, University of Southampton,
URL http://www.soton.ac.uk/~pes1/docscodc.html
9. Patricia Skinner, "' Halt! Be Men! ' Sikelgaita of Salerno,
Gender and the Norman Conquest of Southern Italy," Gender &
History, Vol. 12, Number 3, November 2000, pp. 622-641.
10. Todd A. Farmerie, "Plantagenet Descent from Roger of Sicily,"
Dec 15, 1998, GEN-MED...@rootsweb.com.
11. Paul Theroff, "House of Barcelona," Paul Theroff's Dynastic
Genealogy Files,
worldroots.clicktron.com/brigitte/theroff/barclona.txt.
12. Peter Stewart, "Children of Robert Guiscard and Sikelgaita,"
26 August 2005, GEN-MED...@rootsweb.com.
13. T. N. Bisson, "The Medieval Crown of Aragon," Oxford University
Press (Clarendon), 1986 (1991 Paperback).

WJho...@aol.com

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Jan 24, 2007, 8:53:07 PM1/24/07
to The...@aol.com, gen-me...@rootsweb.com
In a message dated 1/24/07 5:06:55 PM Pacific Standard Time, the...@aol.com
writes:

<< 1.1.1.1.1 Gemma of Naples
----------------------------------------
Death: 0961[2]

' ..bishop-duke Athanasius' daughter Gemma was married to Landolf, son
of Atenulf of Capua-Benevento in 897.' [Skinner, p. 49[1], cites
Cassandro, 'Ducato', p. 120]

Spouse: Landolf I, prince of Benevento
Death: 0943[3]
Father: Atenolf I of Benevento (-0910)
Mother: Sigelgaita
Marr: 0897[1] >>


We have too many Sigelgaita's running around. Who would have thought this
name was so popular?

Sure it's reaching forward a generation or two but.... could this Sigelgaita,
here seen messing around in Capua, Benevento be .... related to that
"Gatelgaima" of Capua who married Guaimar (Waimar) III of /Salerno/ (d 1027)

Thanks
Will

WJho...@aol.com

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Jan 24, 2007, 8:55:20 PM1/24/07
to gen-me...@rootsweb.com
In a message dated 1/24/07 5:06:55 PM Pacific Standard Time, the...@aol.com
writes:

<< 1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1 Gaitelgrima de Capua


----------------------------------------

regent for her son Guaimar IV, 1027 >>

Never Mind !!!
Mea culpa !

Will

al...@mindspring.com

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Jan 25, 2007, 6:24:19 PM1/25/07
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On Jan 24, 8:05 pm, "John P. Ravilious" <ther...@aol.com> wrote:
> Wednesday, 24 January, 2007
>

Hi John

Have you seen TAG 52: 23-26?

Doug

John P. Ravilious

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Jan 25, 2007, 7:42:37 PM1/25/07
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Thursday, 25 January, 2007


Dear Doug,

Thanks for your query. At the earlier suggestion of
another list member, I acquired a copy of that article just
yesterday. As to the descent from the Dukes of Naples,
Evans gives the same, citing Moriarty, and M. Schipa [Storia
del Ducato Napolitano (861-1140)].

Having had a chance to read through the article, I note
the following that Evans had to say re: John II, prince of
Salerno:

' Giovanni Ii was son of Giovanni, Count of Laurino,
by Gaitelgrima, daughter of Atenolfo, Count of Teano,
son of Atenolfo II, Prince of Benevento and Capua
(d. 940). Thus three generations of this family
married Lombard princesses, all belonging to the
house of Benevento and Capua.
Giovanni di Laurino was son of Lambert, Margrave
of Tuscany, who was blinded and exiled by his half-
brother, Hugh of Arles, King of Italy. Lambert was
a younger son of Adalbert II, Margrave of Tuscany
(d. 915), by Bertha (d. 925), widow of Theobald,
Count of Arles, and daughter of the Carolingian
Lothar II, King of Lorraine (d. 869). ' [TAG 52:25-26]


If the descent from Atenolf II of Benevento as given by
Evans above is correct, that is interesting by itself. A
Carolingian connection is given by virtue of Bertha,
illegitimate daughter of Lothar II, being introduced as
great-grandmother of John II of Salerno:


1. Lothar II, king of Lorraine, d. 8 Aug 869
2. [illegitimate] Bertha, m. 2) Adalbert, margrave of Tuscany
3. Lambert, margrave of Tuscany
4. John, count of Laurino ["Giovanni di Laurino") m.
Gaitelgrima of Teano
5. John II, prince of Salerno 984-999, m. Sigelgaita of
Benevento
6. Guaimar III, prince of Salerno 999-1027, m. Gaitelgrima
of Capua
7. Guaimar IV, prince of Salerno 1027-1052, m. Gemma
8. Sigelgaita of Salerno, m. Robert 'Guiscard'


If this descent is valid, that would be most interesting,
to myself and others. This would also be a nice addition
to Genealogics (Lambert of Tuscany, #I00297757, currently
given no issue as yet).

Cheers,

John *


* John P. Ravilious

On Jan 25, 6:24 pm, "a...@mindspring.com" <a...@mindspring.com> wrote:
> On Jan 24, 8:05 pm, "John P. Ravilious" <ther...@aol.com> wrote:
>

> > Wednesday, 24 January, 2007Hi John

taf

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Jan 25, 2007, 8:50:00 PM1/25/07
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On Jan 25, 5:42 pm, "John P. Ravilious" <ther...@aol.com> wrote:
> Thursday, 25 January, 2007
>
> Dear Doug,
>
> Thanks for your query. At the earlier suggestion of
> another list member, I acquired a copy of that article just
> yesterday. As to the descent from the Dukes of Naples,
> Evans gives the same, citing Moriarty, and M. Schipa [Storia
> del Ducato Napolitano (861-1140)].
>
> Having had a chance to read through the article, I note
> the following that Evans had to say re: John II, prince of
> Salerno:

. . . .

> If the descent from Atenolf II of Benevento as given by
> Evans above is correct, that is interesting by itself. A
> Carolingian connection is given by virtue of Bertha,
> illegitimate daughter of Lothar II, being introduced as
> great-grandmother of John II of Salerno:

I think the descent given by Evans is only one of several alternative
reconstructions of these families. I seem to recall someone else
tracing the same family from the Lambertine kings of Italy.

taf

John P. Ravilious

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Jan 26, 2007, 4:47:22 PM1/26/07
to
Dear Todd,

Thanks for your reply of yesterday.

I gather that there is no consensus that there is a Carolingian
descent in this line? Or, is it just "the details" as to how that
descent proceeds down to John II of Salerno?

Cheers,

John

Peter Stewart

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Jan 26, 2007, 6:09:52 PM1/26/07
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On Jan 27, 8:47 am, "John P. Ravilious" <ther...@aol.com> wrote:
> Dear Todd,
>
> Thanks for your reply of yesterday.
>
> I gather that there is no consensus that there is a Carolingian
> descent in this line? Or, is it just "the details" as to how that
> descent proceeds down to John II of Salerno?

The origins of John II can only be conjectural, as the evidence is not
definite - and the lineage in your post of 25 January is incorrect
anyway.

This gave:

> 3. Lambert, margrave of Tuscany

The identification of Lambert is in question, but no historian today I
think would try to connect him to Adalbert of Tuscany and his
Carolingian wife Berta.

The usual speculations are (1) that he was from the Frankish family of
the dukes of Spoleto (favoured nowadays), or else (2) that he was a
descendant of Daufar the Mute, i.e. from the previous Salernitan
dynasty, taking the name Lambert from a female link to the Spoletan
ducal family.

> 4. John, count of Laurino ["Giovanni di Laurino") m.
> Gaitelgrima of Teano

This is an interpolation, perhaps a misguided attempt to explain the
numbering of John II below. In fact we know that John II was son of a
Lambert, not of another John: the first prince of Salerno of this name
was a duke of Amalfi, son of Manson I (these two became joint princes
of Salerno, briefly, in or before April 982).

> 5. John II, prince of Salerno 984-999, m. Sigelgaita of
> Benevento

All that is known of his ancestry for certain is that his father was
named Lambert. John II was a count palatine in Salerno who became
prince in 983.

Peter Stewart

John P. Ravilious

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Jan 26, 2007, 10:05:06 PM1/26/07
to
Dear Peter,

Thanks for those details. As leading as the name Lambert is, it
appears at present this is as far as we can go (i.e., Lambert father of
John II of Salerno) with this line.

This unfortunately (I presume) also removes John II's alleged
mother (per Evans), Gaitelgrima daughter of Atenolf of Teano, from the
equation.

Cheers,

John

On Jan 26, 6:09 pm, "Peter Stewart" <p_m_stew...@msn.com> wrote:
> On Jan 27, 8:47 am, "John P. Ravilious" <ther...@aol.com> wrote:
>
> > Dear Todd,
>
> > Thanks for your reply of yesterday.
>
> > I gather that there is no consensus that there is a Carolingian
> > descent in this line? Or, is it just "the details" as to how that

> > descent proceeds down to John II of Salerno?The origins of John II can only be conjectural, as the evidence is not


> definite - and the lineage in your post of 25 January is incorrect
> anyway.
>
> This gave:
>

> > 3. Lambert, margrave of TuscanyThe identification of Lambert is in question, but no historian today I


> think would try to connect him to Adalbert of Tuscany and his
> Carolingian wife Berta.
>
> The usual speculations are (1) that he was from the Frankish family of
> the dukes of Spoleto (favoured nowadays), or else (2) that he was a
> descendant of Daufar the Mute, i.e. from the previous Salernitan
> dynasty, taking the name Lambert from a female link to the Spoletan
> ducal family.
>
> > 4. John, count of Laurino ["Giovanni di Laurino") m.
>

> > Gaitelgrima of TeanoThis is an interpolation, perhaps a misguided attempt to explain the


> numbering of John II below. In fact we know that John II was son of a
> Lambert, not of another John: the first prince of Salerno of this name
> was a duke of Amalfi, son of Manson I (these two became joint princes
> of Salerno, briefly, in or before April 982).
>
> > 5. John II, prince of Salerno 984-999, m. Sigelgaita of

> > BeneventoAll that is known of his ancestry for certain is that his father was

Cristopher Nash

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Jan 28, 2007, 7:32:42 AM1/28/07
to Gen-Med
John, in response to yours drawn from Skinner & Evans —

Todd wrote

> I think the descent given by Evans is only one of several alternative
> reconstructions of these families. I seem to recall someone else
> tracing the same family from the Lambertine kings of Italy.

and Peter wrote

> The origins of John II can only be conjectural, as the evidence is not
> definite - and the lineage in your post of 25 January is incorrect
> anyway.
>
> This gave:
>

>> 3. Lambert, margrave of Tuscany
>

> The identification of Lambert is in question, but no historian today I
> think would try to connect him to Adalbert of Tuscany and his
> Carolingian wife Berta.
>
> The usual speculations are (1) that he was from the Frankish family of
> the dukes of Spoleto (favoured nowadays), or else (2) that he was a
> descendant of Daufar the Mute, i.e. from the previous Salernitan
> dynasty, taking the name Lambert from a female link to the Spoletan
> ducal family.

If you wanted to you could do something like the following as I did
playing around years ago using e.g. Chris Wickham's _Early Medieval
Italy_ (1981), Geneal Table 2, p 226, and Régine Le Jan, _Famille et
pouvoir dans le monde Franc (VIIe-Xe siècle)_ (1995), tableau 10, p.
188 & tableau 56, p 441.

But _caveat_ it's just gaming (of the sort I suspect Todd had seen),
and alerts like his and Peter's need real attention!
Lambert I, count in Alsace & Teutberge

| Guy/Wido, marquis of Nantes (d. bef 819)

| | Lambert II, count of Nantes (d. 836-37)
& ? Rotrude?

| | | Guy/Guido/Wido I of Spoleto,
lay abbott of Mettlach (d. 860) & Itta/Itda

| | | | Rot(h)ilde of
Spoleto & Adalberto I, margrave of Tuscany

| | | | |
Adalberto II, margrave of Tuscany (d. 915) & Bertha of Lorraine (863—
8 Mar 925)

| | | | |
| Lambert, margrave of Tuscany

| | | | Guy/Guido/Wido
II, count of Spoleto, K of Italy, Holy Rom. Emp. (d. 894)


and

Boniface I (of Bavaria), count of Lucca

| Boniface II, count of Lucca (d. ca 846)

| | Adalberto I, margrave of Tuscany & Rot(h)
ilde of Spoleto

| | | Adalberto II, margrave of
Tuscany (d. 0915) & Bertha of Lorraine (863—8 Mar 925)


To use these as a Guido would be dumb and to Count on them would be
still Margrave.

Cheers!

Cris

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Dec 19, 2013, 3:16:26 AM12/19/13
to



> 1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1 Landolf IV de Capua
> ----------------------------------------
> Death: 0983[3]
>
> prince of Capua and Benevento 981-983
>
> cf. Richard Borthwick[3]
>
> Children: Pandolf III (-1014)
>

Landolfo lost Benevento already in c981. There was date when the almost-century-long union between Benevento and Capua ended, when these two passed to two different branches of the ruling family.

I believe Pandolfo III (the one who deceased in 1014) was not son of this Landolfo and was not at all a direct descendant of Pandolfo 'the Ironhead'.
According to record, the ruler of the shrunk principality of Capua, Landolfo (the eldest son of Pandolfo the Ironhead) was killed in a war in Calabria (982) when being obliged to fight in the army of his liege lord, the emperor Otto.
I have seen no reliable testimony that the said Landolfo even had children. Certainly, he was succeeded in Capua by one of his underage brothers - and not a child of his own.

Whereas Pandolfo (d 1014) was cousin (not son) of this Landolfo. Pandolfo (d 1014) was in that time, 982, 983, ruler of the small state of Benevento (and NOT yet Capua). That Pandolfo seems to have been a paternal grandson of Landolfo II, via a younger son, and not at all a direct descendant of (the uncle, in this) prince Pandolfo 'the Ironhead'.
As an additional piece of information, this Pandolfo (d 1014) seems to been brother (not nephew, not son) of the man historically called Landolfo 'of Sant'Agata' (who consequently should be grandson of Landolfo II).




>
> 1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1 Pandolf III de Capua
> ----------------------------------------
> Death: 13 Aug 1014[3]
> Occ: prince of Capua
>
> prince of Capua
>
> ruled jointly with his father, 973-983
> prince in his own right, 983-1014
>
> ruled jointly with son Landolf, 987-1014
> charter dated Feb. 993, "In nomine domini duodecimo anno domni
> paldolfi gloriosus princeps et sexto anno principatus domni
> landolfi filii eius, mense februarius.." [Codex Cavensis III:1,
> No. CCCCLIX[4]]
>
>


>
> Spouse: Guaimar III de Salerno
> Death: 1027[7],[6]
> Father: John II de Salerno (-0999) [see above]
> Mother: Sigelgaita of Benevento
>

what evidence there is, or nothing, that this Sigelgaita was in some way "of Benevento" ?
I have seen no reliable documentation of this Sigelgaita's parentage.



Bronwen Edwards

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Dec 19, 2013, 10:56:45 PM12/19/13
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On Sunday, January 28, 2007 4:32:42 AM UTC-8, Cristopher Nash wrote:
>
> To use these as a Guido would be dumb and to Count on them would be
> still Margrave.

How do you groan in medieval Italian?

Cristopher Nash

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Dec 21, 2013, 12:16:20 PM12/21/13
to Gen-Med
With great care, Cara. It's near 7 years I've held my breath.

Jessica Key

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Dec 23, 2013, 1:08:22 AM12/23/13
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Kinship & Conquest: Family Strategies in the Principality of Salerno During the Norman Period, 1077-1194 (2002) by Joanna Drell has an index of the family relations of the Lombard princely family, as found in the Cava charters, some of which I will quote here.

XIV, 14 (dated 1089): Guaimar filius dominus Duke Guido shares lands with his cousins: Guaimar, Gregorius and John, sons of dominus Pandulfus.
C, 29 (1091): Guaimar filius Guaimar filius dominus Guaimar filius dominus John.
C, 34 (1092): Gregorius f. Landulfus f. dominus Guaimar.
XVI, 10 (1094): Sichelgaita filia Iaquintus, wife of Guido f. Guaiferius f. Count Gisulf.
XVI, 86 (1098): Guaimar f. Pandulfi f. dominus Guaimar f. dominus John. His wife Sichelgaita f. Landolfus f. Pandolfus.
XVII, 84 (1103): Gregorius f. Pandulfi f. dominus Guaimar.
E, 10 (1110): Guaimar f. Guaimar f. duke Guido
XX, 49 (1116): John f. Guaimar f. count Guaimar
XX, 75 (1117): Guido f. Landulfus f. count Gisulf
F, 21 (1122): Mabilia f. dominus Guaimar, wife of Simon the Norman called Tibiliis.
F, 29 (1124): Gaytelgrima (Gaitelgrima) widow of Guaimar f. dominus Guido f. dominus Guaimar
G, 13 (1134): Emma f. John f. dominus Guaimar
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