Orsini - according to Turton and Ronny Bodine

Leo van de Pas

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Dec 6, 2002, 7:06:44 PM12/6/02

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In Turtons book (page 224) is given that Romano Orsini, who in 1293 married Anastasia de Montfort, was a son of Gentile II Orsini and Claricia (Belladama) Ruffo.

In Marlyn Lewis's book "The Ancestry of Elizabeth of York", page 62, the same parents are given. Marlyn Lewis is a bit more detailed and tells that Gentile II Orsini was married twice. First to Claricia (Belladama) Ruffo, and secondly to a Simonetta (no record).

Ronny Bodine, page 139, makes Romano a son of Simonetta and makes Simonetta the first wife.
Can anyone elaborate on this? Ronny Bodine gives wonderful sources but, like most, I have no access to those.
Many thanks
Leo van de Pas
Canberra, Australia

Cesare Patrignani

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Dec 8, 2002, 2:51:17 AM12/8/02

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In Pompeo Litta's "Famiglie Celebri Italiane" table X is dedicated to the
Orsinis counts of Nola and Pitigliano:
In this table I see that Gentile had four wifes:
1) Simonetta (unknown family);
2) Belladonna (probably daughter of Pietro Ruffo count of Catanzaro);
3) Jacoba (probably daughter of Giovanni Pierleoni)
4) Cubitosa ( unknown family).
==================================================================
Gentile had 10 children, but their mother is not stated; the children are:
a) Costanza - married Riccardo degli Annibaldeschi lord of Molara;
b) Mabilia - married Andrea son of Orso Orsini of Campodifiori;
c) Margherita - married Giovanni de' Boboni;
d) Angela married Giovanni de' Normanni;
e) Perna married Poncello son of Matteo Orsini of Monte Giordano;
f) Filippa - a nun in tne convent of Saints Cosmato e Daminao in Trastevere;
g) Francesco -died young after his father's death;
h) Latino - papal chaplain;
i) Romano - married in 1295 Anastasia di Montfort;
l) Tommasa- married Francesco de' Leoni
===============================================================
The source is table X of Famiglie Celebri Italiane of Pompeo Litta.
===============================================================
Best regards to everyone in the group
Cesare

""Leo van de Pas"" <leov...@bigpond.com> ha scritto nel messaggio
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Ronny Bodine

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Dec 9, 2002, 6:34:07 PM12/9/02

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Leo- Tom Spalding, who drew up our account of the Orsinis, found that
none of the references we cited specified what children were by which
mother of whom there were four. In this particular case Simonetta was
taken to be the mother of Roberto Orsini because Roberto named his own
daughter Simonetta, a name which appears nowhere else in the family
during this time period and follows the Italian pattern of naming the
eldest daughter after her paternal grandmother. The younger Simonetta
was the wife of Tommaso Marzano conte di Squillace.

Ronny Bodine

José Verheecke

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Dec 10, 2002, 3:31:00 AM12/10/02

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""Leo van de Pas"" <leov...@bigpond.com> schreef in bericht
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On oct 4th 1993,the french genealogist Marc Folliero de Luna sent me a
revised chart "Gli Orsini di Nola"
,based on Sandro Carocci:Baroni di Roma nel duecento e nel primo
trecento"(Roma 1993)
The chart (also to be found in Héraldique et Généalogie 1999:344)
starts precisely with this Gentile you mention.As it happens,Gentile's
testament mentions the names of his
3 spouses,his children(at least 3 sons,and 8 daughters),and his daughters
and their husband's ancestry for
several generations.
Acoording to Mr.de Luna,it's like this:
Gentile test.1318
x1 c.1265/70 Simonetta N..
x2 c1290/95 Clarissa RUFFO(fa.Pietro,cte di Catanzaro x Giovanna AQUINO dei
cti di Acerra)
x3 c1300 Giacoma STEFANESCHI,daughter of a first cousin (fa.Pietro x Perna
ORSINI)
children
(ex1),among others: Romano +1327 x Anastasia de Montfort
(ex2) no children at all
(ex3)Francesco and perhaps one daughter

--
José Verheecke
jose.ve...@pandora.be