MARGARET DE VERE/ST JOHN/LOUVAINE/PULTENEY/BEAUMONT
Shane Hines
CP states, under the entry for John de Vere, 7th Earl of Oxford, that his
"daughter, Margaret, married first (before 1361) Henry, Lord Beaumont (d.
1369), secondly, Sir Nicholas Louvaine of Penhurst, seneschal of Ponthieu
from 1364, who made his will on 20 Sept. 1375; and thirdly, John, Lord
Devereux (d. 1393), whom she survived (ib. p 98; Foedera, iii., 709, 739,
920)."
The order of the first two marriages is contradicted by the entry for Henry,
Lord Beaumont, which states: "He married Maud, widow of Sir Nicholas
Louvaine, daughter of John (de Vere), 7th Earl of Oxford...". However, the
Beaumont entry is then corrected in the Addenda and Corrigenda, which states
"delete all detail and replace by 'Margaret, da. of John (DE VERE), 7th Earl
of Oxford, by Maud, sister and coh. of Giles (DE BADLESMERE), 2nd Lord
BADLESMERE, da. of Bartholomew, 1st Lord BADLESMERE. He d. 25 July 1369
[Inq. p.m., vol. 12, no. 321] and was bur. in Sempringham Priory, co.
Lincoln. His widow m., as his 2nd wife, Sir Nicholas LOVAIN, of Penhurst,
Kent, who d. s.p.m. in 1375."
So far so good. However, Geo. Farnham, in his Leicestershire Medieval
Pedigrees ((1925) pp. 52-3), referring to Nichols' history of Leicestershire
(iv, p.307), gives further information about Nicholas Louvaine whilst
discussing Sir John Pulteney, stating that Pulteney was "knighted in 1338
and died on Monday after Trinity Sunday, 1349, his widow Margaret marrying
Sir Nicholas Lovaigne, kt.. Sir John was succeeded by his son William
Pulteney, a minor aged 8 or 9 years, who died without issue on 20 Jan.,
1366/7; his widow, also named Margaret, married John de Pekebrugge, kt.".
Farnham then goes on to mention the grant of the manor of Ditton Camoys in
Cambridgeshire to Sir John in 21 Edw III (1348), which manor is mentioned in
the IPM of Sir Nicholas Loveyne as follows:
Calendar of IPM's for the reign of Edward III (p.184, no. 172):
"NICHOLAS LOVEYNE, kt.
Writ 12 October 49 Edw III (1376)
CAMBRIDGE Inq taken at Newmarket 13 Nov, 50 Edw III (1377)
Ditton Camoys. The Manor, held for life jointly with Margaret his wife,
likewise decd., with remainder to William de Pulteneye, kt., decd., and
Margaret his wife, who survives and the heirs of their bodies, and with
remainder over to the right heirs of the said William, by grant of John,
bishop of Worcester and William de Chirchehull, clerk, by a fine
levied.....manor held of the king in chief by service of a pair of gilt
spurs.
Date of death unknown. John son of Robert de Pulteneye, aged 24 years and
more, kinsman of the said William de Pulteneye is next heir...after the
death of Margaret formerly the wife of the said William, whom John de
Pekkebrigg, knight, has now married".
Therefore, without mentioning Sir John Pulteney, this IPM seems consistent
with his widow having married Loveyne as stated by Farnham and it also shows
that Loveyne's wife Margaret was dead by 13 Nov 1377.
I was thinking that this conflicted with the information for Margaret de
Vere in CP. However, the Dictionary of National Biography entry for John
Pulteney (vol. XVI, p. 468) has his wife down as Margaret, daughter of John
de St John of Lageham (I have also seen her named as Margaret, da. Sir
Richard Lovel, but I have not come across a Sir Richard Lovel who had a
daughter who was either named Margaret or who married either Pulteney or
Loveyne).
Therefore, going back to CP to check St John of Lageham, whilst its more
suggestive (to me anyway) than proof of a family relationship, it shows that
Roger the 4th Lord secured his Surrey property to Sir Nicholas de Loveyne,
his mother (Katherine, daughter of Geoffrey de Say) completing the transfer
after Roger's death. Roger was the son of John de St John, the 3rd Lord, and
brother, presumably, of Margaret who married John Pulteney.
Putting this together (and this is the only way I can reconcile it all),
Nicholas Loveyne seems to have married two Margarets - first Pulteney's
widow Margaret (de St John), whom he survived, whereupon he re-married
Margaret de Vere (who was by then the widow of Lord Beaumont). Margaret (de
Vere) then survived him in turn and herself re-married Lord Devereux.
It may be that this scheme of things has been concisely set out before.
Nonetheless, if anyone can confirm its accuracy, I'd be grateful. Any
comments/constructive criticism also welcome. I'd finally like to thank
Patrick Payne for his help and for e-mailing the CP details to me.
Shane Hines
Kay Allen AG
Two Wives, Parts I and II" which appeared in The Genealogists' Magazine, vol.
15.
Sir Nicholas' first wife was Margaret, daughter of John de Bereford, citizen of
London and widow of Sir John Pulteney. Her son William also married a Margaret,
who married, secondly, Sir John de Pekkebrugge.
This Margaret died between 1365 and 1370, as Nicholas married Margaret de Vere
Beaumont before March 1370. Margaret married thirdly Devereaux.
Hope this answers your questions.
Kay Allen AG
Chris Phillips
> CP states, under the entry for John de Vere, 7th Earl of Oxford, that his
> "daughter, Margaret, married first (before 1361) Henry, Lord Beaumont (d.
> 1369), secondly, Sir Nicholas Louvaine of Penhurst, seneschal of Ponthieu
> from 1364, who made his will on 20 Sept. 1375; and thirdly, John, Lord
> Devereux (d. 1393), whom she survived (ib. p 98; Foedera, iii., 709, 739,
> 920)."
Supporting evidence for this scheme is given in the article on Devereux
(Complete Peerage vol.4, pp.298,299).
The will of "Nichol de Loueyn chiualer" is quoted, which mentions "monsire
Aubray de Veer frere de ma dite femme [Margrete]" [Lambeth Register Sudbury
ff.86-88v].
According to inquisitions taken after Margaret's death, she had been the
wife of Henry de Beaumont, knight, and held certain lands in dower of the
inheritance of Henry, son and heir of John de Beaumont, knight, deceased.
Another inquisition which refers to her as formerly the wife of Henry
Beaumont also gives the heirs of Nicholas Loveyn, knight [CP doesn't quote
the part that specifies Margaret's relationship to Nicholas].
Also, the "Register of the Inscriptions in the Church of the Grey Friars,
London" mentions the tomb of "dominus Johannes Dewerose" and of "Margareta
uxor ejus quondam domina de Bewmond et filia comitis Exonie [sic]."
Chris Phillips
canberra
gives
Henry 3rd Lord Beaumont, born ca 1339/1340 in Brabant,
died 25 July 1369, buried at Septringham, co.Lincoln
he married (no date) Margaret de Vere, who died 15 June 1398, buried London
Grey Friars, daughter of John, 7th Earl of Oxford, and Joan Badlesmere.
Margaret de Vere married 2ndly Sir Nicholas de Lovein, of Penshurst, Kent,
he died in 1375; she married 3rdly Sir John Devereux, 1st Baron Devereux,
who died 22 February 1393.
Sources given are for Tafels 681 to 686 and take half a page but they all
seem French (just a quick glance)
From her first marriage I have
John, 4th Lord Beaumont
born ca 1360, died 9 September 1396 Stirling
married to Catherine Everingham, theyy had several children
From her second marriage I have
Margaret de Lovaine
she married before 1398 Sir Philip St.Clair and for them I have only one
child
From her third marriage
Sir John Devereux
born ca 1377, died 13 November 1396
married Philippe de Briene but they had no children
Joan Devereux
born circa 1380, died May 1409
married (1) Walter FitzWalter, 5th Lord FitzWalter and
(2) Sir Hugh Burnell
Hope this is of some use.
Best wishes
Leo van de Pas
Patricia Junkin
>
> From her second marriage I have
> Margaret de Lovaine
> she married before 1398 Sir Philip St.Clair and for them I have only one
> child
>
Margaret de Louvain Chamberlayne Seyntclere (St. Clair), widow of Philip,
most probably did not die within days of her husband in 1408 but remarried
a Wintershull and the likely candidate is Thomas who was born in 1365 who
was succeeded in 5 Henry V[1418]by his son, Thomas[ b.c. 1394 died 1421].
By her first husband she had:
William and Richard Chamberlayne
By her marriage to Seynt Clere she had:
John and Thomas Seyntclere
Kay Allen AG
Margaret Loveyne married first Richard Chamberlayne/Chamberlain. St. Clair was
her second marriage.
Kay Allen AG
canberra wrote:
> ES III Tafel 685 (Brienne/Beaumont family)
> gives
> Henry 3rd Lord Beaumont, born ca 1339/1340 in Brabant,
> died 25 July 1369, buried at Septringham, co.Lincoln
> he married (no date) Margaret de Vere, who died 15 June 1398, buried London
> Grey Friars, daughter of John, 7th Earl of Oxford, and Joan Badlesmere.
> Margaret de Vere married 2ndly Sir Nicholas de Lovein, of Penshurst, Kent,
> he died in 1375; she married 3rdly Sir John Devereux, 1st Baron Devereux,
> who died 22 February 1393.
>
> Sources given are for Tafels 681 to 686 and take half a page but they all
> seem French (just a quick glance)
>
> >From her first marriage I have
> John, 4th Lord Beaumont
> born ca 1360, died 9 September 1396 Stirling
> married to Catherine Everingham, theyy had several children
>
> >From her second marriage I have
> Margaret de Lovaine
> she married before 1398 Sir Philip St.Clair and for them I have only one
> child
>
> >From her third marriage
> Sir John Devereux
> born ca 1377, died 13 November 1396
> married Philippe de Briene but they had no children
>
> Joan Devereux
> born circa 1380, died May 1409
> married (1) Walter FitzWalter, 5th Lord FitzWalter and
> (2) Sir Hugh Burnell
>
> Hope this is of some use.
> Best wishes
> Leo van de Pas
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Chris Phillips" <cgp...@cgp100.dabsol.co.uk>
> To: <GEN-MED...@rootsweb.com>
> Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2002 8:02 AM
> Subject: Re: MARGARET DE VERE/ST JOHN/LOUVAINE/PULTENEY/BEAUMONT
>
canberra
----- Original Message -----
From: "Kay Allen AG" <all...@pacbell.net>
To: "canberra" <leov...@bigpond.com>
Cc: <GEN-MED...@rootsweb.com>
Sent: Friday, March 01, 2002 1:37 AM
Subject: Re: MARGARET DE VERE/ST JOHN/LOUVAINE/PULTENEY/BEAUMONT
> Dear Leo,
>
> Margaret Loveyne married first Richard Chamberlayne/Chamberlain. St. Clair
was
> her second marriage.
>
> Kay Allen AG
My source for Margaret is Ancestral Roots by Weiss and Sheppard. That is why
I have her married only once.
Many thanks for the correction.
Leo van de Pas
Althea...@aol.com
the husbands I have for her are:
Richard Chamberlayne
Henry, Lord Beaumont, (d. 1369)
Sir Nicholas Louvaine (who made his will on 20 Sept. 1375)
John, Lord Devereux (d. 1393)
Philip St. Clair (married before 1398)
Also did she have a sister Elizabeth de Vere who married John De Mowbray? I
have their mother as Joan Badlesmere.
If this sounds like a dumb question, I don't see very well, and sometimes it
takes me a while to sort things out.
AVP
Kay Allen AG
Chamberlayne and St. Clair. Her mother had the other 3 marriages.
Kay Allen AG