Was Babur really a descendant of Genghis Khan and Tamurlane?
Sam Sloan
Babur, 1483-1530, was founder of the Mughal Empire of India. His full
name was Zahir ud-Din Muhammad. History books say that he was a
descendant of Timur (Tamerlane) and of Jenghiz Khan.
Was this really true? Who were the parents of Babur? Is there a family
tree or a pedigree chart of Babur anywhere? Or, was this just a story
he made up?
Sam Sloan
norenxaq
Sam Sloan wrote:
> Was Babur really a descendant of Genghis Khan and Tamurlane?
yes
>
>
> Babur, 1483-1530, was founder of the Mughal Empire of India. His full
> name was Zahir ud-Din Muhammad. History books say that he was a
> descendant of Timur (Tamerlane) and of Jenghiz Khan.
>
> Was this really true?
it is
> Who were the parents of Babur?
His father was Omar Shaik, a descendant of Tamerlane. His mother was
Kutlak Nigar Khanum, a descendant of Genghis Khan
> Is there a family
> tree or a pedigree chart of Babur anywhere?
there are sevaral
> Or, was this just a story
> he made up?
see above
>
>
> Sam Sloan
Frank Johansen
If you take a look at
<http://www.dreamwater.net/regiment/RoyalArk/India/mughal2.htm> you can
see that the ancestors are traced back in at least six generations to
the rulers of Transoxania (Uzbekistan). Unfortunately, Mr. Buyers has
not yet completed the section about Uzbekistan.
And, by the way, combining information from the Delhi section and the
Afghanistan section of Mr. Buyers website, a have found out that the
former King of Afghanistan (much talk about his return these days)
descent from the Emperors in Delhi (and thus possibly from Djenghis
Khan). I also tried to find a line back to Shah Ismael I of Persia (and
thus some of the Byzantine Emperors), but has not been successfull yet.
In the Brunei section of the Royal Ark website, I found that the Sultans
of Brunei (on Borneo) descend both from the Chinese Ming dyansty and
from the Prophed Muhammad. Fascinating! (See
<http://www.dreamwater.net/regiment/RoyalArk/Brunei/brunei2.htm> for
details). Now - I don't know much about the Chinese dynasties - was the
Ming dynasty descendants of Kublai Khan?
--
Vennlig hilsen
Frank H. Johansen
joh...@c2i.net
Sam Sloan
these people, please let me know.
By the way, my daughter, Shamema, is said to be a descendant of all these
people, because her mother, Honzagool, is a member of the Royal Family of
Chitral Pakistan.
Sam Sloan
http://www.anusha.com/pafx2.htm
norenxaq
Frank Johansen wrote:
> If you take a look at
> <http://www.dreamwater.net/regiment/RoyalArk/India/mughal2.htm> you can
> see that the ancestors are traced back in at least six generations to
> the rulers of Transoxania (Uzbekistan). Unfortunately, Mr. Buyers has
> not yet completed the section about Uzbekistan.
>
> And, by the way, combining information from the Delhi section and the
> Afghanistan section of Mr. Buyers website, a have found out that the
> former King of Afghanistan (much talk about his return these days)
> descent from the Emperors in Delhi (and thus possibly from Djenghis
> Khan).
By the Emperors of Delhi, are you refering to the Moghuls? If so, they do
descend from Genghis Khan
> I also tried to find a line back to Shah Ismael I of Persia (and
> thus some of the Byzantine Emperors), but has not been successfull yet.
from the Moghuls?
>
>
> In the Brunei section of the Royal Ark website, I found that the Sultans
> of Brunei (on Borneo) descend both from the Chinese Ming dyansty and
> from the Prophed Muhammad. Fascinating!
Ong Sum Ping, the person in question, was a Chinese general who traveled to
Brunei at the request of the Emperor. His ancestry is unknown. He was not
relared to the Ming emperors as the RoyalArk site maintains
> (See
> <http://www.dreamwater.net/regiment/RoyalArk/Brunei/brunei2.htm> for
> details). Now - I don't know much about the Chinese dynasties - was the
> Ming dynasty descendants of Kublai Khan?
>
> no. The Ming overthrew the Yuan (the dynasty Kubilai Khan established)
> and did not intermarry with them
>
Håvard Moe
AFAIK Babur was the great-great-great-grandson of Timur.
--
Håvard
Nichol
>>thus some of the Byzantine Emperors), but has not been successfull
yet.
>from the Moghuls?
If you're looking for a connection between the Mughals & the Persians
(and from them to Byzantine Emperors and ultimately to Charlemagne)
here's what I have:
(1) Ionannes (John) IV, Emperor of Trebizond, d.1459. He m.unknown
Turkish woman & had issue:
(1.1) Theodora Komnena m.Uzun Hasan & had issue:
(1.1.1) Halima Begun m.her cousin Sultan Haydar Safavi & had issue:
(1.1.1.1) Abdul Muzaffar Ismael I, Shah of Persia, b.1487 & d.MAY 23
1524. He m.Tajlu Khanum & had issue:
(1.1.1.1.1) Shahzada 'Abdu'l Fath Bahram Mirza, b.15 SEP 1517 & d.7
OCT 1549. He had issue:
(1.1.1.1.1.1) Shahzada Husain Mirza, d.1577. He had issue:
(1.1.1.1.1.1.1) Shahzada 'Iffat Khan Rustam Mirza, b.1565 & d.1642,
Agra, India. He had issue:
(1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1) Shahzada Murad Mirza Iltifat Khan, d.1627. He
m.daughter of 'Abdu'r Rahim Khan & had issue:
(1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1) Shahzada Badi uz-zaman Mirza Shahnawaz Khan,
Governor of Jaunpur, d.24 MAR 1659. He had issue:
(1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1) Dilrus Banu m.18 MAY 1637 Aurangzeb, Mughal of
India.
From here on out it's pretty easy to trace back from Ionannes IV to
Charlemagne, Georgian Kings, Byzantine royalty, and tons more. I am
unaware of any earlier relationship between the Mughals and this line,
but it's very possible I missed a connection or two.
> >Was this really true? Who were the parents of Babur? Is there a family
> >tree or a pedigree chart of Babur anywhere? Or, was this just a story
> >he made up?
>
> AFAIK Babur was the great-great-great-grandson of Timur.
Would someone be so kind as to post Babur's exact descent from
Timur-i-lang?
.:Nichol:.
A Tsar Is Born
news:3BC85448...@c2i.net...
>Now - I don't know much about the Chinese dynasties - was the
> Ming dynasty descendants of Kublai Khan?
No. They came to power by massacring the descendants of Kublai Khan.
Jean Coeur de Lapin
atsar...@hotmail.com
"There is no safety in numbers, or in anything else."
-- James Thurber
"Those who know history are condemned to think it is repeating itself."
-- Jim Shaw
"It seems almost as if there is something inherent in religious monotheism
that lends itself to this kind of terrorist temptation. And our bland
attempts to ignore this -- to speak of this violence as if it did not have
religious roots -- is some kind of denial. We don't want to denigrate
religion as such, and so we deny that religion is at the heart of this. But
we would understand this conflict better, perhaps, if we first acknowledged
that religion is responsible in some way, and then figured out how and why."
-- Andrew Sullivan, NY Times, Oct. 7, 2001
norenxaq
>
> Would someone be so kind as to post Babur's exact descent from
> Timur-i-lang?
>
> .:Nichol:.
Hello:
it is as follows:
Timur-i-lang
Miran Shah
Mohammed
Abu Said
Omar Shaik m. Kutlak Nigar Khanum
Babur
William Addams Reitwiesner
Those interested in the details and sources of this line (and many others)
should see the series of articles on "The descendants of Theodora Comnena
of Trebizond" by M. L. Bierbrier in *The Genealogist* [ASG], starting in
the Fall 1997 issue (vol. 11, no. 2) and concluding in the Fall 2000 issue
(vol. 14, no. 2).
William Addams Reitwiesner
wr...@erols.com
Nichol
Thank you, darling, I appreciate it.
.:Nichol:.
Sam Sloan
>If you take a look at
> http://www.dreamwater.net/regiment/RoyalArk/India/mughal2.htm you can
>see that the ancestors are traced back in at least six generations to
>the rulers of Transoxania (Uzbekistan). Unfortunately, Mr. Buyers has
>not yet completed the section about Uzbekistan.
>
I want to thank you very much for this. I have just spent the last several
days studying this website and I have made extensive use of the information
on it.
I have not used all the information on it, for the simple reason that it
would take me months to do so. Mr. Buyers has all the Mughal Rulers of
India on his site. Most of the Mughal Rulers of India had at least 15 wives
and many had more than 50 children. Obviously, trying to trace the family
trees of these people would be a monumental task.
I have posted the most essential information on my web site at
http://www.anusha.com/pafx2.htm Note that this is my own family tree, not
the Royal Family of Europe tree, which is at a different location at
http://www.ishipress.com/royalfam/pafx2.htm . This is also not the same as
my Thomas Jefferson Family Tree, which is at
http://www.ishipress.com/pafx2.htm .
I would like very much to find a connecting relative to connect my three
family trees together, but so far I have been unable to find one.
The reason that the Mughal Rules of India are on my personal Family Tree is
that I have a daughter named Shamema whose mother is a member of the Royal
Family of Chitral Pakistan. The Royal Family of Chitral Pakistan claims to
be descended from a nephew of Babur, the First Mughal Ruler of India, and
from both Genghis Khan and Timurlane. However, I spent all day yesterday in
the New York Public Library and was not able to find their connection.
I personally believe that the Royal Family of Chitral is descended from
Genghis Khan, because the second son of Genghis Khan, whose name is spelled
Jagatai, Chughtay and various other ways, was the ruler of Kashgaria, an
area which probably included or boardered on Chitral. Moreover, Chughtay
had 14 children. Although none of them succeeded him, it seems highly
probable that one of his descendants became a ruler of Chitral.
Chughtay or Jagatai seems to have been the only son of Genghis Khan who did
not try to expand his empire and conquer new territory. It appears that he
preferred to make love, not war.
Babur, Emperor of India, and his descendants are on my website starting at
http://www.anusha.com/pafg85.htm#2586
The most famous was Shah Jahan, who built the Taj Mahal.
Sam Sloan
Frank Johansen
>
> I have posted the most essential information on my web site at
> http://www.anusha.com/pafx2.htm Note that this is my own family tree, not
> the Royal Family of Europe tree, which is at a different location at
> http://www.ishipress.com/royalfam/pafx2.htm . This is also not the same as
> my Thomas Jefferson Family Tree, which is at
> http://www.ishipress.com/pafx2.htm .
>
> I would like very much to find a connecting relative to connect my three
> family trees together, but so far I have been unable to find one.
A direct connection might be difficult to establish.
However, there is at least one inderect connection. One of the wifes of
Shah Jahan of Delhi (1592-1666) was Shahzadi Kandahari Mahal Begum
Sahiba (of Persia). She was the daughter of Shahzada Muzaffar Husain
Mirza (of Perisa; 1562-1603). He was the son of Shahzada Husain Mirza
(of Persia; d. 1577), son of Shahzada Abdul Fath Bahram Mirza (of
Perisa; 1517-1549), son of Shah Ismail I, Shahanshah of Perisa
(1487-1524).
Shah Ismail I of Persia was the son of Sultan Haidar and his wife Halima
Alam Shah Begum Agha. She was the daughter of Uzun Hasan, Khan of the Aq
Quyunlu, and his wife Theodora Comnena of Trabezond, daughter of Emperor
Johannes IV of Trabezond.
Johannes IV descended from Emperor Alexios I Komnenos (d. 1118). Emperor
Alexios I was also an anecstors of many European royals.
I'll try to make a chart (pleace wiev in monospace font):
Emperor Alexios I Komnenos, d. 1118
|____________________________________
| |
Thodora Komnena; Isaakios Komnenos, d. aft. 1152
m. Konstantinos Angelos |
| |
Andronikos Angelos Doukas, d. 1185 co-Emperor Andronikos I, d. 1185
| |
Emperor Isaakios II, d. 1204 Manuel Komnenos
| |
Eirene Angelina; m. Emperor Alexios I of Trabezond, d.
1222
Philipp, Duke of Schwaben, d. 1208 |
| |
Marie of Schwaben; m. Emperor Manuel I of Trabezond, d.
1263
Henri I, Duke of Brabant, d. 1248 |
| |
Maud of Brabant; m. Emperor Ioannes II of Trabezond,
d. 1297
Robert I, Count of Artois, d. 1250 |
| |
Blanche of Artois; m. Emperor Alexios II of Trabezond,
d. 1330
Henri I, King of Navarre, d. 1274 |
| |
Jeanne, Queen of Navarre; m. Emperor Basileios of Trabezond, d.
1340
Philippe IV, King of France, d. 1314 |
| |
Isabelle of France; m. Emperor Alexios III of Trabezond,
d. 1390
Edward II, King of England, d. 1327 |
| |
Edward III, King of England, d. 1377 Emperor Manuel III of Trabezond,
d. 1417
| |
John, Duke of Lancaster, d. 1399 Emperor Alexios IV of Trabezond,
d. 1429
| |
John Beaufort, Earl of Somerset, Emperor Ioannes IV of Trabezond,
d. 1458
d. 1410 | |
| |
John Beaufort, Duke of Somerset, Theodora Komnena; m.
d. 1444 | Uzun Hasan, Khan of the
Aq-Quyunlu, d. 1478
| |
Margaret Beaufort; m. Edmund Halima Begum; m.
Tudor, Earl of Richmond, d. 1456 Sultan Haydar Safavi, d. 1488
| |
Henry VII, King of England, Ismail I, Shahanshah of Persia, d.
1524
d. 1509 | |
| |
Margaret Tudor; m. Shahzada Abdul Fath Bahram Mirza, d. 1549
James IV, King of Scots, d. 1513 |
| |
James V, King of Scots, d. 1542 Shahzada Husain Mirza, d. 1577
| |
Mary I, Queen of Scots, d. 1587 Shahzada Muzaffar Husain Mirza, d.
1603
| |
James I & VI, King of England Shahzadi Kandahari Mahal Begum
Shahiba; m.
and Scotland, d. 1587 Shah Jahan I of Delhi
Also other descendants of Shah Ismail of Persia married into the ruling
family of Delhi.
costac...@gmail.com
> Was Babur really a descendant of Genghis Khan and Tamurlane?
> name was Zahir ud-Din Muhammad. History books say that he was a
> descendant of Timur (Tamerlane) and of Jenghiz Khan.
Olivier
|
Jagatai Khan 1184-1241
|
Muatukan Khan +1221
|
Yesünto'a Khan
|
Baraq Khan
|
Duwa Khan +1307
|
Esen Buqa Khan
|
Tughlugh Timur Khan +1363
|
Khizr Khwaja Khan
|
Sher Ali Aughlon Khan
|
Awais Khan +1429
|
Yunus Khan 1416-1487
|
Qutlaq Nigar +1505
|
Babur (Timurid) 1483-1530
Olivier
Tamerlan (Timourid) 1336-1405
|
Miran Mirza 1366-1408
|
Muhammad Mirza
|
Abu Sa'id Mirza 1424-1469
|
Umar Mirza +1494
|
Babur (Timurid) 1483-1530