Edward The Elder to Robert The Pious
Guy Vincent
daughter, Emliane Aelgiva who married Ebles Count of Poitou,
they in turn having a son, Guillaume III Duke of Aquitaine.
Other sites show a similar path with the daughter of Edward the
Elder being called Elgiva. However, I can find nothing to support
this using the consanguinous kin entries on the PASE database
nor does Leo's site follow this line. Does anyone know if this
line is correct?
Guy Vincent
Leo van de Pas
As I try to record sources, for me the best thing is to try and go over
these details and see what sources tell me. I presume Guillaume III Duke of
Aquitaine is born about 900 as son of (according to Caroli Magni Progenies,
by Siegfried Rosch) Ebalus Mancer, Count of Poitou and Aremburgis.
On page 135 Rosch tells that about 892 Ebalus Mancer/Ebles married
Aremburgis=Irmburg, of unknown origins. on 10 October 891 they were still
engaged.
Edward the Elder and Aelfled, did they have a daughter able to marry about
892?
I doubt it very much as Edward was born about 871 and daughter Eadgifu was
born about 896 and Elfwaerd was an earlier child. As far as I can tell
Edward did not have a daughter called Elgiva. He did have : illegitimate
Athelstan and a daughter who in 926 (!) married Sithric Coach, King of York.
By Elfleda/Aelflaed
Elfwaerd, Eadgifu, Ethelhild, Eadhild/Eadhylde, Eadgyth, Edfled, Adiva
By Eadgifu
Edmund I the Magnificent, Edred, Edburh, Edgifu
These details are from ES Volume II tafel 78. Burke's Guide to the Royal
family also does not give such a daughter.
Hope this helps?
Best wishes
Leo van de Pas
Peter Stewart
"Guy Vincent" <g.vi...@bom.gov.au> wrote in message
news:430828B...@bom.gov.au...
The origin of Emiliana is unknown, and the link to Edward the Elder was an
error of the 16th/17th century historian Jean Besly, who confused the wives
of Ebles and his son & misinterpreted William of Malmesbury to reach this
particular false conclusion.
There is not a certain line from her husband Ebles to Robert the Pious
anyway - this is commonly traced through the latter's mother Adelaide,
allegedly a daughter of Duke Guillaume III, but you will find discussions in
the SGM archive casting doubt on her filiation.
Peter Stewart
Guy Vincent
Guy Vincent
Todd A. Farmerie
> "Guy Vincent" <g.vi...@bom.gov.au> wrote in message
> news:430828B...@bom.gov.au...
>
>>Jim Weber's site shows Edward the Elder and Aelflaed having a
>>daughter, Emliane Aelgiva who married Ebles Count of Poitou,
>>they in turn having a son, Guillaume III Duke of Aquitaine.
>>Other sites show a similar path with the daughter of Edward the
>>Elder being called Elgiva. However, I can find nothing to support
>>this using the consanguinous kin entries on the PASE database
>>nor does Leo's site follow this line. Does anyone know if this
>>line is correct?
>
>
> The origin of Emiliana is unknown, and the link to Edward the Elder was an
> error of the 16th/17th century historian Jean Besly, who confused the wives
> of Ebles and his son & misinterpreted William of Malmesbury to reach this
> particular false conclusion.
Let me just add that while William of Malmesbury's account is the most
complete, it appears to be flawed in some aspects.
AElgiva, daughter of Eadweard, is given by AEthelweard the Chronicler as
having been sent to Germany with her sister Eadgyth, one (Eadgyth was
selected) to be bride of the futute Emperor Otto I. The other, AElgiva,
was married to a man "cuipiam regi iuxta Iupitereos montes" - a certain
king near the Jupiter Mountains (Alps). William gives a similar
account, but mistakenly reverses the names - AElgiva marries Otto,
Eadgyth a 'duke' near the Alps.
Likewise, he gives a daughter Eadgifu, married to Louis, Prince of
Aquitaine, a descendant of Charlemagne (Ludouico Aquitanorum principi de
genre Karoli Magni). No such Louis is known at this time. This
princess is only known from Malmesbury, and this entry in the Malmesbury
account is problematic. It would involve Eadgifu, a supposed child of
Eadweard's third marriage, being named for her mother, which was
extremely uncommon (see other thread) among the Anglo-Saxons. It would
also have involved the giving of the same name to two daughters, for
which I know of no other examples (although we know a lot less
daughters' names, and there are a couple of documented cases for two
brothers having the same name). I have come to suspect that authentic
and garbled versions a single daughter came down to William of
Malmesbury separately, and that he did not recognize them as the same
and hence recorded them as separate daughters. Thus Eadgifu, daughter
of Eadweard and his second wife, who was married to Charles the Simple
of France and mother of Louis IV 'prince' of Aquitaine, was the the root
of this Eadgifu wife of Prince Louis.
Both of these daughters have served as targets for numerous genealogical
hypotheses. In the case of the first, a broad range of men from Alsace
to Bohemia have been tapped as the king near the Jupiter Mountains. In
the second, there being no Louis of Aquitaine at the time, pretty much
anyone named Louis or from Aquitaine has been dubbed. I have not seen
Besly, but this theory appears to combine the two, giving the wife of
Ebles, whose son would hold Aquitaine, the name of the bride of the duke
near the Alps.
taf
Roger LeBlanc
connections of Ebalus/Ebles of Poitou's wives, but is it established
which of them was the mother of Guillaume/William I/III of Poitou/Aquitaine?
Roger LeBlanc
Todd A. Farmerie
> In this thread from August 2005, the question centered on the family
> connections of Ebalus/Ebles of Poitou's wives,
Or, more accurately, the lack of any information on the family
connections of his wives.
> but is it established
> which of them was the mother of Guillaume/William I/III of
> Poitou/Aquitaine?
Moriarty shows the mother of William as Emiliane.
taf
Peter Stewart
"Todd A. Farmerie" <farm...@interfold.com> wrote in message
news:dgaqgn$5p$1...@eeyore.INS.cwru.edu...
> Roger LeBlanc wrote:
>> In this thread from August 2005, the question centered on the family
>> connections of Ebalus/Ebles of Poitou's wives,
>
> Or, more accurately, the lack of any information on the family connections
> of his wives.
>
>> but is it established which of them was the mother of Guillaume/William
>> I/III of Poitou/Aquitaine?
>
This comes from Alfred Richard, who stated that it was probable but not
definite.
Ebles acquired the allod of Baidon along with Emiliane, and his younger son
Ebles (abbot of Saint-Maixent & bishop of Limoges) later gave this to his
abbey stating it came to him by hereditary right. The presumption then is
that Ebles was son of Emiliane, and since there is no reason to suppose that
Guilhem was not his full brother Richard assumed that he was too.
Peter Stewart