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Joan wife of Ernald de Bois (Boys) father?
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xager8on
Mar 7, 2012, 8:28:42 PM3/7/12
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I'm trying to ascertain Joan's father who married Ernald (Arnald) de Bois (Boys). Was it Andrew de Beachamp or Ralph de Murdac (husbands of Eva de Grey)?
According to 'Standlake: Manors', A History of the County of Oxford: Volume 13: Bampton Hundred (Part One) (1996), pp. 180-183. URL: http://www.british-history.ac.uk/report.aspx?compid=15979:
The Greys' mesne tenancy descended presumably through Anketil's son Richard to his grandson Anketil (fl. 1150) and great-grandson John (d. by 1192), both of whom granted meadows and common rights in Standlake to Eynsham abbey. (fn. 4) John's daughter and heir Eve married the royal judge Ralph Murdac, who was lord in 1192 but whose lands were forfeited in 1194 for rebellion. (fn. 5) A claim was evidently made by Guy de Dive, Murdac's great nephew through marriage, who that year confirmed the grants to Eynsham abbey, but the Crown restored the manor to Eve c. 1197, (fn. 6) soon after Murdac's death. In 1200 her second husband Andrew de Beauchamp paid 50 marks for seisin of Murdac's former lands in Northamptonshire, (fn. 7) and in 1214 he received custody of Standlake wood, which by 1230 was attached to the manor. (fn. 8) On Eve's death c. 1246 the manor was divided into four parts, three passing to her daughters Beatrice (relict of Robert Mauduit), Joan (wife of Ernald de Boys), and Alice (wife of Ralph Hareng and formerly of Alan of Buckland), and the fourth to Jolland de Neville, son of her daughter Maud. (fn. 9) It descended in quarters until the 16th century, the Boys, Hareng, and Neville quarters being held apparently of the Mauduit quarter. (fn. 10)
4 Eynsham Cart. i, pp. 87-9; Misc. Gen. et Her. 5th ser. v. 161-2, 164.
5 Eynsham Cart. i, p. 84; Misc. Gen. et Her. 5th ser. v. 164; Pipe R. 1194 (P.R.S. n.s. v), 15-16, 92; Chanc. R. 1196 (P.R.S. n.s. vii), 71, 75, 203.
6 Eynsham Cart. i, pp. 89-91; Pipe R. 1197 (P.R.S. n.s. viii), 35, 40; cf. V.C.H. Oxon. xi. 91.
7 Rot. de Ob. et Fin. (Rec. Com.), 48; Misc. Gen. et Her. 5th ser. v. 162, 164.
8 Rot. Litt. Pat. (Rec. Com.), i. 170; Cal. Chart. R. 1226-57, 121.
9 Cal. Inq. p.m. i, p. 290; for date, cf. Ex. e Rot. Fin. (Rec. Com.), i. 455. Mauduit may have had some right by 1230: Pipe R. 1230 (P.R.S. n.s. iv), 246.
10 e.g. Bampton Hund. R. 66, 68-70; Oxon. Fines, 170-1.
Lastly, if Andrew de Beauchamp is indeed the father, do I have his ancestry correct?
1. Andrew de Beauchamp
2. William de Beauchamp d. 1197
3. Joan de St. Valery
4. William de Beauchamp d. 1170
6. Thomas de St. Valery
8. Walter de Beauchamp d. 1130/1133
9. Emmeline d'Abbetot
10. William de Braose
12. Bernard de St. Valery
Thanks,
Brad
According to 'Standlake: Manors', A History of the County of Oxford: Volume 13: Bampton Hundred (Part One) (1996), pp. 180-183. URL: http://www.british-history.ac.uk/report.aspx?compid=15979:
The Greys' mesne tenancy descended presumably through Anketil's son Richard to his grandson Anketil (fl. 1150) and great-grandson John (d. by 1192), both of whom granted meadows and common rights in Standlake to Eynsham abbey. (fn. 4) John's daughter and heir Eve married the royal judge Ralph Murdac, who was lord in 1192 but whose lands were forfeited in 1194 for rebellion. (fn. 5) A claim was evidently made by Guy de Dive, Murdac's great nephew through marriage, who that year confirmed the grants to Eynsham abbey, but the Crown restored the manor to Eve c. 1197, (fn. 6) soon after Murdac's death. In 1200 her second husband Andrew de Beauchamp paid 50 marks for seisin of Murdac's former lands in Northamptonshire, (fn. 7) and in 1214 he received custody of Standlake wood, which by 1230 was attached to the manor. (fn. 8) On Eve's death c. 1246 the manor was divided into four parts, three passing to her daughters Beatrice (relict of Robert Mauduit), Joan (wife of Ernald de Boys), and Alice (wife of Ralph Hareng and formerly of Alan of Buckland), and the fourth to Jolland de Neville, son of her daughter Maud. (fn. 9) It descended in quarters until the 16th century, the Boys, Hareng, and Neville quarters being held apparently of the Mauduit quarter. (fn. 10)
4 Eynsham Cart. i, pp. 87-9; Misc. Gen. et Her. 5th ser. v. 161-2, 164.
5 Eynsham Cart. i, p. 84; Misc. Gen. et Her. 5th ser. v. 164; Pipe R. 1194 (P.R.S. n.s. v), 15-16, 92; Chanc. R. 1196 (P.R.S. n.s. vii), 71, 75, 203.
6 Eynsham Cart. i, pp. 89-91; Pipe R. 1197 (P.R.S. n.s. viii), 35, 40; cf. V.C.H. Oxon. xi. 91.
7 Rot. de Ob. et Fin. (Rec. Com.), 48; Misc. Gen. et Her. 5th ser. v. 162, 164.
8 Rot. Litt. Pat. (Rec. Com.), i. 170; Cal. Chart. R. 1226-57, 121.
9 Cal. Inq. p.m. i, p. 290; for date, cf. Ex. e Rot. Fin. (Rec. Com.), i. 455. Mauduit may have had some right by 1230: Pipe R. 1230 (P.R.S. n.s. iv), 246.
10 e.g. Bampton Hund. R. 66, 68-70; Oxon. Fines, 170-1.
Lastly, if Andrew de Beauchamp is indeed the father, do I have his ancestry correct?
1. Andrew de Beauchamp
2. William de Beauchamp d. 1197
3. Joan de St. Valery
4. William de Beauchamp d. 1170
6. Thomas de St. Valery
8. Walter de Beauchamp d. 1130/1133
9. Emmeline d'Abbetot
10. William de Braose
12. Bernard de St. Valery
Thanks,
Brad
CE Wood
Mar 7, 2012, 9:53:23 PM3/7/12
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You have 10. William de Braose. Who is 5.?
CE Wood
CE Wood
Jan
Mar 7, 2012, 11:36:46 PM3/7/12
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The IPM for Eva is as follows:
842. Eva de Gray.
Writ {missing). Inq. {undated.)
Beatrice Murdac late the wife of Robert Maudut, Alice the wife of Ralph Harang, Joan the wife of Ernald de Bosco, and Jolland {Julanus), son of Jolland de Nevill and Maud his wife, are her heirs.
Oxford. Stanlak. 2 carucates land, and 17l. 17s. 3d. rents and customs.
Derneford. 3 carucates land with meadows and pastures, and 42s. 8d. rents and customs.
All held of Baldwin, sometime earl of Devon, whose heir is in the king's
wardship, by service of 4 knights. {See Rot. Fin. 30 Hen. III. m. 7.)
C. Hen. III. File 43. (15.)
The fine roll cited in the IPM is available on line at
http://www.finerollshenry3.org.uk/content/calendar/roll_043.html#d142740e36174
Click on membrane 7. You can view the image of the actual fine roll. The entry about Eva's heirs is number 473, which the website translates as follows (the note in () is my comment, notes in [] are on the website):
473
[Uncertain: Is there a marginal reference note beside the heading here? If so, how should we describe it?]
[No date] (but between the entries for June 11 and June 13 in 1246). For the heirs of Eva de Gray. Beatrice Murdac, Ralph Hareng and Alice, his wife, Ernald de Bosco and Joan, his wife, and Jollan, son of Jollan de Neville, give £20 for their relief of the four knights’ fees which Eva de Gray, whose heirs the same Beatrice, Alice, Joan and Jollan are, held in Oxfordshire of B., formerly earl of Devon, whose heir is in the king’s custody.
There are many entries in these fine rolls for Ernald de Bosco, including some which seem to indicate when he succeeded his father and when he was succeeded by his son. Perhaps you can infer something about when Joan was born from the entries about Ernald de Bosco (search for Bosco, there seem to be several spellings of Ernald). There are also many entries for Jollan de Neville and Ralph Hareng.
The first heir in the IPM, "Beatrice Murdac late the wife of Robert Maudut" may have been a daughter by Eva's first husband since she is called Beatrice Murdac.
Andrew de Beauchamp seems to have had a son John who was of age by 1228 (see the search result for "Andrew de Beauchamp" on the fine rolls of Henry III website).
There are many errors in VCH, so it may help to check each of the references cited in the VCH entry.
842. Eva de Gray.
Writ {missing). Inq. {undated.)
Beatrice Murdac late the wife of Robert Maudut, Alice the wife of Ralph Harang, Joan the wife of Ernald de Bosco, and Jolland {Julanus), son of Jolland de Nevill and Maud his wife, are her heirs.
Oxford. Stanlak. 2 carucates land, and 17l. 17s. 3d. rents and customs.
Derneford. 3 carucates land with meadows and pastures, and 42s. 8d. rents and customs.
All held of Baldwin, sometime earl of Devon, whose heir is in the king's
wardship, by service of 4 knights. {See Rot. Fin. 30 Hen. III. m. 7.)
C. Hen. III. File 43. (15.)
The fine roll cited in the IPM is available on line at
http://www.finerollshenry3.org.uk/content/calendar/roll_043.html#d142740e36174
Click on membrane 7. You can view the image of the actual fine roll. The entry about Eva's heirs is number 473, which the website translates as follows (the note in () is my comment, notes in [] are on the website):
473
[Uncertain: Is there a marginal reference note beside the heading here? If so, how should we describe it?]
[No date] (but between the entries for June 11 and June 13 in 1246). For the heirs of Eva de Gray. Beatrice Murdac, Ralph Hareng and Alice, his wife, Ernald de Bosco and Joan, his wife, and Jollan, son of Jollan de Neville, give £20 for their relief of the four knights’ fees which Eva de Gray, whose heirs the same Beatrice, Alice, Joan and Jollan are, held in Oxfordshire of B., formerly earl of Devon, whose heir is in the king’s custody.
There are many entries in these fine rolls for Ernald de Bosco, including some which seem to indicate when he succeeded his father and when he was succeeded by his son. Perhaps you can infer something about when Joan was born from the entries about Ernald de Bosco (search for Bosco, there seem to be several spellings of Ernald). There are also many entries for Jollan de Neville and Ralph Hareng.
The first heir in the IPM, "Beatrice Murdac late the wife of Robert Maudut" may have been a daughter by Eva's first husband since she is called Beatrice Murdac.
Andrew de Beauchamp seems to have had a son John who was of age by 1228 (see the search result for "Andrew de Beauchamp" on the fine rolls of Henry III website).
There are many errors in VCH, so it may help to check each of the references cited in the VCH entry.
smith....@gmail.com
Mar 8, 2012, 4:14:21 AM3/8/12
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John P. Ravilious, post to SGM dated 2002-5-13, Re: FitzUrse and de Cauntelou/Cantilupe.
Curia Regis Roll. No. 72. 4 Hen 3. m. 4.
I think the William Beauchamp who married Joan de St Valery dsp.
Doug Smith
John P. Ravilious
Mar 8, 2012, 5:48:06 AM3/8/12
to
Good morning Brad,
The Beauchamp issues aside, there is something amiss with the St.
Valery link as given. If the Thomas de St. Valery, son of Bernard
that you show above was the Thomas who (1) held Tetbury
(Gloucestershire) and Beckley (Oxfordshire) and (2) d. in 1219, the
link is erroneous. Besides the chronology, Thomas left a sole heiress
who m. Robert, comte de Dreux.
Perhaps the Joan de St. Valery you show was an aunt, or great-
aunt?
Cheers,
John
Brad Verity
Mar 11, 2012, 11:23:56 AM3/11/12
to
On Mar 8, 3:48 am, "John P. Ravilious" <ther...@aol.com> wrote:
> Good morning Brad,
Just a quick note to those helpful folks who've sent me offlist very
useful information on this topic. I'm not researching the 13th-
century Beauchamp of Assington or Boys familys. The original post is
from a different Brad (using the handle 'xager8on') than me.
Thanks & Cheers,
---Brad (Verity)
> Good morning Brad,
Just a quick note to those helpful folks who've sent me offlist very
useful information on this topic. I'm not researching the 13th-
century Beauchamp of Assington or Boys familys. The original post is
from a different Brad (using the handle 'xager8on') than me.
Thanks & Cheers,
---Brad (Verity)
Wjhonson
Mar 11, 2012, 1:14:40 PM3/11/12
to the...@aol.com, gen-me...@rootsweb.com
http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/NORMAN%20NOBILITY.htm#_ftnref1078
To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to GEN-MEDIEV...@rootsweb.com
with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of
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Wjhonson
Mar 11, 2012, 1:17:25 PM3/11/12
to wjho...@aol.com, the...@aol.com, gen-me...@rootsweb.com
Ignore that, here is the correct link
http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/NORMAN%20NOBILITY.htm#GilbertSaintValeryMPapia
-----Original Message-----
From: Wjhonson <wjho...@aol.com>
To: therav3 <the...@aol.com>; gen-medieval <gen-me...@rootsweb.com>
Sent: Sun, Mar 11, 2012 10:14 am
Subject: Re: Joan wife of Ernald de Bois (Boys) father?
http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/NORMAN%20NOBILITY.htm#_ftnref1078
-----Original Message-----
From: John P. Ravilious <the...@aol.com>
To: gen-medieval <gen-me...@rootsweb.com>
Sent: Thu, Mar 8, 2012 3:25 am
Subject: Re: Joan wife of Ernald de Bois (Boys) father?
http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/NORMAN%20NOBILITY.htm#GilbertSaintValeryMPapia
-----Original Message-----
From: Wjhonson <wjho...@aol.com>
To: therav3 <the...@aol.com>; gen-medieval <gen-me...@rootsweb.com>
Sent: Sun, Mar 11, 2012 10:14 am
Subject: Re: Joan wife of Ernald de Bois (Boys) father?
http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/NORMAN%20NOBILITY.htm#_ftnref1078
-----Original Message-----
From: John P. Ravilious <the...@aol.com>
To: gen-medieval <gen-me...@rootsweb.com>
Sent: Thu, Mar 8, 2012 3:25 am
Subject: Re: Joan wife of Ernald de Bois (Boys) father?
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