Kings of Man

Stewart Baldwin

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Oct 11, 1997, 3:00:00 AM10/11/97

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Since every genealogical table of the kings Man and the Isles which I
have seen has significant omissions, I decided to work one out, based
on the primary sources (or, more accurately, the translations thereof)
to which I currently have access. There could very well be errors and
omissions, and I would be grateful for any which are pointed out,
particulary if primary sources are offered. (Question: Does ES have
a table of the kings of Man?) Because of the uncertainties involved,
the table comes in four disconnected pieces, which might be further
connected if one made certain assumptions about the identifications of
individuals during the uncertain period of the eleventh century. The
first two tables are based mainly on the Irish annals, and the the
last two on the Chronicle of the Kings of Man (as translated by
Anderson in "Early Sources of Scottish History" [ESSH]), which is the
sole authority used for the last table (with help from the table of
the kings of Man in the "New History of Ireland" for interpreting the
difficult chronology of the Chronicle), unless otherwise stated. The
secondary sources which I have seen disagree on the assignment of
numbers to the various kings, so I have assigned lower case Roman
numerals to the kings having repeated names. Please keep in mind that
these are just the numbers I assigned for convenient identification
purposes, and have no official status. In order for the table to look
right, you must use a font in which every character has the same width
(such as Courier), and have a line length of at least sevety lines.

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Harald (Aralt), d. 940, king of Limerick
(perhaps brother of Olaf Cuaran - Chronicon Scotorum)
|
Godred (Goffraidh) i, d. 989
king of the Isles
____________|________________?
| |
Reginald (Ragnall) i Lagmann i, ruling 1014
king of the Isles, d. 1004/5 king of the Isles
|
Olaf, d. 23 Apr 1014
killed at Clontarf

Note: The existence of a "Magnus" son of Harald is given only in late
sources, and seems to be a error for "mac Harald" (i.e. Goffraidh), in
which "mac" became "Maccus" and then "Magnus" in successive
corruptions of the records.

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There are several known Ragnalls who could be the father of
Echmarcach. They were discussed in some detail in a previous posting
to s.g.m

Ragnall (which one?)
|
Echmarcach mac Ragnaill, d. 1065
king of Man and Dublin
|
Mor md.
Tadg Ua Briain
k. Munster

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The Chronicle of the Kings of Man gives Sitric as the name of the
father of Godred ii, but if that name is wrong, it is possible that he
was the same person as Goffraidh son of Amlaibh (Olaf) son of Ragnall,
the king of Dublin who died in 1075.

Sitric(?)
|
Godred ii, d. ca 1070/5
king of Man
|
Fingal, king of Man
dethroned by Godred Crovan

----------------------------------------------------------------
See my recent posting on the subject for a discussion of the ancestry
of Godred Crovan.

In 1266, the kingdom of Man was transferred to Alexander III, king of
Scotland, and the line of native rulers of Man ended. According to
"English Genealogy" by Anthony Wagner (2nd ed., Oxford, 1972), p. 79,
two heiresses attempted to get their rights recognized in 1293. They
were Aufrica de Connoght, kinswoman and heiress of king Magnus of Man,
who made over her rights to Simon Montagu/Montacute (see the Complete
Peerage under Montagu), and Mary, daughter of Reginald, who married
John Waldboef. I was able to verify Mary's status from the Roll of
Parliament for 33 Edward III (Rolls Series 98), p. 131, but I do not
know what primary source gives Aufrica's status as heiress of Magnus,
nor do I know the source of the statement of the Dictionary of
National Biography [DNB] (under Simon Montacute) that Aufrica was the
daughter of a certain Fergus and "sister of Orray, king of Man"
(whoever that was). According to the Complete Peerage, there is no
evidence to support the statement of DNB that Aufrica married Simon.

* The mother of Godred iv is given here according to the Chronicle of
the kings of Man. According to the Icelandic sagas, his mother was
Ingibjorg, daughter of Hakon, jarl of Orkney.

** Late Welsh sources give him several other children, including a
daughter who married Gruffudd ap Llywelyn, prince of North Wales.

Stewart Baldwin

DKJ200

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Oct 11, 1997, 3:00:00 AM10/11/97

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Thanks to Stewart Baldwin for responding to my original query and for providing
the genealogical tables. I wonder who "Orray, King of Man" was. It might be
the least reliable genealogical source of all time, but I remember that one of
the packet steamers which used to sail between Llandudno and the Isle of Man
in the 1960s and 1970s was called King Orray, suggesting that there was
someone around with that name once, either in history or legend!

David Jamieson

>Subject: Kings of Man - Table
>From: sb...@auburn.campus.mci.net (Stewart Baldwin)
>Date: 11/10/97 01:53 BST
>Message-id: <61mbcn$dfr$1...@news.campus.mci.net>

solitaire

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Oct 12, 1997, 3:00:00 AM10/12/97

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DKJ200 wrote:

I have heard the same name referred to as "Gorre" or "Gorrey"; it seems to
refer to one of the Godreds... Norma Lorre Goodrich in her KING ARTHUR refers to
"Gorre" as the Godred who fathered the Affreca who married the Jean de Coucy who
took Henry II's war to Ulster.

--
solitaire

VCrawf

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Oct 16, 1997, 3:00:00 AM10/16/97

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Alas - a quick look at Graves' White Goddess and Fraser's Golden Bough brought
forth no "Orray, King of Man". I am now doomed to keep looking, really
looking. Please post if found. Thanks!

Virginia Egan Crawford

rwje...@hctc.net

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Oct 24, 1997, 3:00:00 AM10/24/97

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On 16 Oct 1997 20:23:48 GMT, vcr...@aol.com (VCrawf) wrote:

>I wonder who "Orray, King of Man" was.<
>

Try looking in the Encyclopedia Britannica (mine is 11th Ed. 1916, but
the new probably has this):
In the history subhead of the Article on Man, Isle of:

Godron Crovan conquered the IOM in 1079, also subdued Dublin & a great
part of Leinster.

It is probable that he is the one enshrined in Manx legend as King
Gorse or Orry.

Robert
rwje...@hctc.net