The Use of De in French Names (Was Sixteen Quarters Of Nobility)
John P. DuLong
French names as a sign of nobility.
Contrary to popular belief among some North American French, the use of an
alias is NOT an indication of nobility (Trudel 1994). Nor does the use of
the prepositions d', des, du, or de la before a family name mean that your
ancestors were noble. In North American, whether it is De or de makes little
difference. Whether or not the preposition is capitalized is simply
irrelevant.
The more important clues for detecting nobles is if an ancestor is referred
to as écuyer (squire), chevalier (knight), or with some title (such as
baron, comte, marquis, or duc). If over several generations these terms are
used to refer to your ancestors, then you certainly are researching a noble
line.
You can not always trust that a person called a noble homme is really a
noble man as this term was often applied politely to honorable bourgeois.
The same is true with the word gentilhomme (gentleman), it is sometimes
applied to non-nobles. (I understand that in documents before say 1600, the
terms noble home and gentilhomme are almost always used exclusively for
nobles, but this is less likely the case after 1600.)
Sieur, meaning sir and abbreviated Sr., is a legal term equivalent to Sir or
Mister as used in English law courts, it does not imply knighthood or
nobility. Likewise, seigneur means lord of an estate, and both nobles and
commoners (routiers) owned such estates. So this terms can also be
deceptive.
When doing research on potential noble ancestors you should endeavor to
avoid making embarrassing leaps of faith. Trudel (1994, 23) relates a
humorous example of such a leap of faith. It appears that a researcher
thought that "Bertrand de Rennes S. de long" meant that his ancestor was a
noble and the Sieur or Seigneur de Long. However, further investigation
revealed that the "S. de long" in the original document stood for "scieur de
long," that is, a worker who saws long pieces of wood.
See Trudel, Marcel. 1994. "Du 'dit' au 'de', noblesse et roture en
Nouvelle-France." _Mémoires de la Société généalogique canadienne-française_
45 (Spring): 23-34.
Lastly, I must say that these comments refer certainly to New France and to
France say between 1500 and 1789. My knowledge of modern French customs
regarding De is limited, but I have not seen anything yet to contradict the
above information. I believe that these cautions on the use of De are also
applicable before 1500.
For a better understanding of the social place of nobles in France I would
strongly recommend the following work:
Mousnier, Roland. E. 1979-1984. _The Institutions of France under the
Absolute Monarchy, 1598-1789_. Translated by Brian Pearce. 2 vols. Chicago:
University of Chicago Press.
This book is an essential guide to the social structure of France before the
Revolution.
Regards,
John P. DuLong, Ph.D.
Acadian and French Canadian Genealogy
http://habitant.org
Patrick Henin
of "de" in French patronyms.
The French Revolution of 1789 abolished monarchy and nobility and forbid the
use of "de" in patronyms. (King Louis XVI 's family name became Capet (After
Hugues "Capet", founder of the dynasty.) So my ancestors "de" Lovinfosse"
called themselves simply Lovinfosse.But Napoleon restored (and created) his
own nobility. and the "de" could re-appear (some people who didn't care or
who married non-nobles didn't bother to do so.)
Let me add that 'de' simply means "coming from" and is not necessarily a
proof of nobility at all. People who left their countryside village to go to
the town to find work added the name of their village because their
Christian name was the same as the neighbour's...That doesn't mean that they
were the Lords of that village.
As far as modern surnames are concerned , a capital "D" means one can be
sure the person is not noble ( I know a " Monsieur Defrance" (not related
to the Bourbons!!), but
Prince Philippe of Belgium changed his name recently , from
Saxe-Cobourg-Gotha to "de Belgique".
Some people have names starting with "du" or "des". It means that the place
of origin is a village with a name starting with the definite article "Le"
(ex: Le Roeulx ,village in Belgium) gave "du Roeulx" . In France ,"from Les
Fontaines"would give "des Fontaines"(Plural)
Hope it helps a little.
Patrick Henin,Charlemagne country, Herstal,Belgium.
"John P. DuLong" <dul...@habitant.org> a écrit dans le message de
news:bv0fn7$mhegp$1...@ID-28226.news.uni-berlin.de...
Pierre Aronax
"Patrick Henin" <patric...@skynet.be> a écrit dans le message de
news:4013cffd$0$291$ba62...@news.skynet.be...
> I would add some details to John P.DuLong's (excellent) post about the
use
> of "de" in French patronyms.
> The French Revolution of 1789 abolished monarchy and nobility and forbid
the
> use of "de" in patronyms. (King Louis XVI 's family name became Capet
(After
> Hugues "Capet", founder of the dynasty.)
In fact, no: as "King of the French", Louis XVI had no more patronym that he
had as King of France.
> So my ancestors "de" Lovinfosse"
> called themselves simply Lovinfosse.But Napoleon restored (and created)
his
> own nobility. and the "de" could re-appear (some people who didn't care
or
> who married non-nobles didn't bother to do so.)
> Let me add that 'de' simply means "coming from"
Not necessarily. It can have various meaning, particularly in regional
practices. For example, "de Bertrand" means "son of Bertrand" and not
"coming from Bertrand".
> and is not necessarily a
> proof of nobility at all.
Indeed.
> People who left their countryside village to go to
> the town to find work added the name of their village because their
> Christian name was the same as the neighbour's...That doesn't mean that
they
> were the Lords of that village.
> As far as modern surnames are concerned , a capital "D" means one can be
> sure the person is not noble
> ( I know a " Monsieur Defrance" (not related
> to the Bourbons!!),
So, you will have to explain, for example, to the Duke Decazes that he is
not from a noble family, I am sure he will be amused...
Pierre
Patrick Henin
I agree with your remarks.I just wanted to be short.You can always find
exceptions to the main rules.I' have nothing against Duke Decazes ,but I
don't think his title dates back to the Middle Ages. I am always referring
to names of "land nobility" , not nobilility acquired later (Napoleon,
Louis XVIII.or..Elizabeth II..).I didn't mean Sir Elton John or Sir Cliff
Richard (né Richard Webb).Nor did I write about de + a common name (like de
la Vigne).
Anyway , I hope you'll agree with me if I say that noble people never speak
to each other using this now famous "de" .
Respectfully yours,
Patrick.Henin (not de Hénin)
"Pierre Aronax" <pierre...@hotmail.com> a écrit dans le message de
news:4013da08$0$21216$79c1...@nan-newsreader-01.noos.net...
Pierre Aronax
> Dear Pierre,
> I agree with your remarks.I just wanted to be short.You can always find
> exceptions to the main rules.
When a rule has too many exceptions, one can wonder if it is still a rule.
> I' have nothing against Duke Decazes ,but I
> don't think his title dates back to the Middle Ages.
I know no French ducal title which does.
> I am always referring
> to names of "land nobility" , not nobilility acquired later
In this families, you will finde many who are nobles without "de".
> (Napoleon,
> Louis XVIII.or..Elizabeth II..).I didn't mean Sir Elton John or Sir Cliff
> Richard (né Richard Webb).Nor did I write about de + a common name (like de
> la Vigne).
> Anyway , I hope you'll agree with me if I say that noble people never speak
> to each other using this now famous "de" .
What do you mean exactly?
Respectfully,
Pierre
pete....@xtra.co.nz
Thank you for responding to my post. I am trying to get an understanding of where the name de Strabrok fits in. I can't find anyone of that name, the only times it seems to have been used is in reference to the original Freskyn who received lands from David I around 1023, and sometimes later by his son William. But it does not seem to be a name in itself, so why was it used in the Paisley Abbey Rolls in c1460?
Janice
>
> From: pierre...@hotmail.com (Pierre Aronax)
> Date: 2004/01/26 Mon AM 11:55:15 GMT+13:00
> To: GEN-MED...@rootsweb.com
> Subject: Re: The Use of De in French Names (Was Sixteen Quarters Of Nobility)
>
> "Patrick Henin" <patric...@skynet.be> wrote in message news:<401406b0$0$766$ba62...@news.skynet.be>...
> > Dear Pierre,
> > I agree with your remarks.I just wanted to be short.You can always find
> > exceptions to the main rules.
>
> When a rule has too many exceptions, one can wonder if it is still a rule.
>
> > I' have nothing against Duke Decazes ,but I
> > don't think his title dates back to the Middle Ages.
>
> I know no French ducal title which does.
>
> > I am always referring
> > to names of "land nobility" , not nobilility acquired later
>
> In this families, you will finde many who are nobles without "de".
>
> > (Napoleon,
> > Louis XVIII.or..Elizabeth II..).I didn't mean Sir Elton John or Sir Cliff
> > Richard (nı Richard Webb).Nor did I write about de + a common name (like de