death of brother of Piers de Gaveston in 1312
Reedpcgen
brother, died in 1312, and Edward made a gift for his soul on 14 September
1312, which was therefore expenced by the Exchequer (E.101/375/8, f.3).
One would think that if a daughter of Piers died in 1312 by September she would
also have been remebered. Interesting tidbit.
Paul
Reedpcgen
Gaveston for those who are descended from him. This is taken from Jeffrey
Scott Hamilton's Ph.D. dissertation at Emory University (1982), which cites
mainly from Pierre de Marca, _Histoire de Bearn_, 12 v. new edition, ed. M.
l"Abbe v. Dubaret (Pau, 1844 and 1912), v. 11 [genealogical table p. 12, etc.].
Gabaston is a town in Bearn on the river Gabas about 10 miles from Pau. Bearn
is a viscounty on the Spanish bordering Navarre, Aragon and Bigorre.
1. Garsie-Arnaud de Gabaston, occurs ca. 1040.
2. Arnaud de Gabaston, occ. ca. 1040. Arnaud and his father donated three
churches to Lescar ca. 1040, witness Centule IV, Vct. de Bearn.
3. Raimond-Garsie de Gabaston, occ. 1060-1122, m. Esquine, occ. 1115. In
1102, Raimond-Garsie and his son Garsie were present when Gaston IV of Bearn
gave the toll from the bridge over the river Gave to the cathedral church of
Lescar. In 1115, Raimond-Garsie, his wife Esquine, their son Garsie, and
Garsie's son Raimond-Garsie gave the church of St. Marie de Serre to Guy,
Bishop of Lescar in return for a loan.
4. Garsie de Gabaston, occ. 1102, 1115
5. Raimond-Garsie de Gabaston, occ. 1115-1154. Between 1131 and 1134 the
vicomtess of Bearn gave Raimond-Garsie as one of five hostages to the viscount
of Bigorre.
? [Hamilton found no mention of the Gabastons between 1154 and 1214/15]
6. Bernard de Gabaston, occ. 1214/1215, when a castle was donated to the prior
of Madiran. The lord of Gabaston [presumably Bernard] was named as one of 12
jurats of the Cour Majour de Bearn by Guillaume I, Viscount de Bearn. Hamilton
states that this was a hereditary office.
?
7. Garsie de Gabaston, occ. 1252, as one of the guarantors to the marriage
contract of Roger-Bernard, son of the Count of Foix, to Marguerite, second
daughter of Gaston VII, Viscomte de Bearn.
8. Arnaud de Gabaston, occ. 1269, d. 1302, m. Claramonde de Marsan, d. 1287.
Arnaud de Gabaston occurs as jurat in 1269, so was likely son of Garsie. [here
Hamilton cites P. Raymond, ed., _Inventaire-sommaire des archives des
Basses-Pyrenees anterieures a 1790_ 4:72, no. E290]. Arnaud first occurs in
records when he rendered homage and fealty to Gaston VII at the marriage of his
daughter Constance to Henri de Almain. Arnaud received, in marriage with
Claramonde, the castles of Louvigny, Roquefort de Marsan, Montgaillard des
Landes, Hagetmau and St. Loubourer, with lands and appurtenances in Marsan,
Tursan, Sauveterre-de-Bearn and Chalosse, held in right of his wife (worth 100
l. sterling per annum). Arnaud had married Claramonde by 30 June 1272, when
they acknowledged a debt of 20,000 sous de morlans (ca. 450 l.) to Edward I of
England (Bearn had technically been under English suzerainty since 1152 (but
remained mainly independent). Arnaud was one of 64 hostages delivered to the
King of Aragon on 4 October 1288 [Foedera 1:ii:689-90; the hostages included
Gaston VII de Bearn and Arnaud's brother-in-law Fortaner de Lescun]. Arnaud
was a hostage again from 1294, to Philip 'the Fair' of France. He served as a
knight in charge of his own retinue for Edward I for two decades, including the
campaigns in Scotland. Claramonde died in 1287. Arnaud died in 1302.
9. Piers de Gaveston, d. 1312, Earl of Cornwall 1307, m. 1307 Margaret de
Clare. Piers first occurs in records 14 August 1297, when expenses for service
in Flanders was accounted for. He was at Knaresborough 30 November and 1
December 1300. He was presumably 21 by 1304 [b. ca. 1284-5], when granted the
lands, marriage and wardship of Mortimer [who would become lover of Edward's
Queen]. He was presumably not much older, as he was claimed by one chronicle
to be the same age was Edward, though agile, quick witted and handsome.
I thought this might be of interest, and there is likely more to be found
concerning the gaps.
Paul
Nathaniel Taylor
reed...@aol.com (Reedpcgen) wrote:
...
>7. Garsie de Gabaston, occ. 1252, as one of the guarantors to the marriage
>contract of Roger-Bernard, son of the Count of Foix, to Marguerite, second
>daughter of Gaston VII, Viscomte de Bearn.
>
>8. Arnaud de Gabaston, occ. 1269, d. 1302, m. Claramonde de Marsan, d. 1287.
>Arnaud de Gabaston occurs as jurat in 1269, so was likely son of Garsie. [here
>Hamilton cites P. Raymond, ed., _Inventaire-sommaire des archives des
>Basses-Pyrenees anterieures a 1790_ 4:72, no. E290]. Arnaud first occurs in
>records when he rendered homage and fealty to Gaston VII at the marriage of his
>daughter Constance to Henri de Almain. Arnaud received, in marriage with
>Claramonde, the castles of Louvigny, Roquefort de Marsan, Montgaillard des
>Landes, Hagetmau and St. Loubourer, with lands and appurtenances in Marsan,
>Tursan, Sauveterre-de-Bearn and Chalosse, held in right of his wife (worth 100
>l. sterling per annum). Arnaud had married Claramonde by 30 June 1272, when
>they acknowledged a debt of 20,000 sous de morlans (ca. 450 l.) to Edward I of
>England (Bearn had technically been under English suzerainty since 1152 (but
>remained mainly independent). Arnaud was one of 64 hostages delivered to the
>King of Aragon on 4 October 1288 [Foedera 1:ii:689-90; the hostages included
>Gaston VII de Bearn and Arnaud's brother-in-law Fortaner de Lescun]. Arnaud
>was a hostage again from 1294, to Philip 'the Fair' of France. He served as a
>knight in charge of his own retinue for Edward I for two decades, including the
>campaigns in Scotland. Claramonde died in 1287. Arnaud died in 1302.
>
>9. Piers de Gaveston...
>
>I thought this might be of interest, and there is likely more to be found
>concerning the gaps.
Interesting; thanks. What of the mother, Claramonde de Marsan? Any
information on her connections / ancestry?
Nat Taylor
Todd A. Farmerie
> Interesting; thanks. What of the mother, Claramonde de Marsan? Any
> information on her connections / ancestry?
Jargain provides a descent of the Lords of Marsan. Claramonde's
father was not Lord of Marsan, but likely of a younger line
sharing the same root. In terms of origin, he derives the family
from an illegitimate son of Count Guillaume Sanches of Gascony,
for which connection, perhaps, several grains of salt are in order.
taf
D. Spencer Hines
Deus Vult.
"Demagogues, popularizers, prostitutes and charlatans give people what
they want. Statesmen, educators, friends and lovers give them what they
need." DSH, 31 August 1999
All replies to the newsgroup please. Thank you kindly.
All original material contained herein is copyright and property of the
author. It may be quoted only in discussions on this forum and with an
attribution to the author, unless permission is otherwise expressly
given, in writing.
-----
D. Spencer Hines
Lux et Veritas et Libertas
Vires et Honor.
Reedpcgen
Bearn. "He first appears in 1232 in a dispute over Garos with Gaston VII;
Marca, v. 11, p. 329. He appears frequently in the Gascon Rolls between 1242
and 1255; his loyal service to Henry III was recognized and he was entrusted
with various delicate tasks. Ellis feels that the support he gave Henry III in
1253, notably presenting the king with the castle of Louvigny, was one of the
king's success; Elis, "Gaston VII," p. 167. He died in 1272; Charles Bemont,
ed. _Recueil d'Actes relatifs a l'Administration des Rois d'Angleterre en
Guyenne au XIIIe siecle_, Paris, 1914, pp. 198-200."
[Hamilton Dissertaion, 19, note 44]
Hamilton also here states that the M.A. thesis "The Career of Peter of Gaveston
and his place in History", University of London, 1939, discusses at length (pp.
53-63) how the Marsan family was related to the Caillau family (one of the most
important Bordeau families).
Since lands Claramonde brought with her in marriage were worth 100 l. per
annum, she must have represented a branch not far from the stem.
An Internet source states that Arnaud_Guillaume was son of another
Arnaud-Guillaume de Marsan whose daugter (Piers' aunt) married Pierre Caillau,
and that another sibling was Fortaner de Lescun. Another source calls her
father Arnaud de Lescun. (It might make sense that Piers would be named after
his aunt's husband.)
Interestingly, some sources state that Pierre de Gabaston, son of the Arnaud de
Gabaston who died in England, married Marie de Coarraze by whom Pierre [Piers]
was father of Arnaud-Guillaume de Gabaston, father of Marie de Gabaston who
married Arnaud-Guillaume de Bearn (son of Gaston VII [1221-26 Apr. 1290], who
is given as son of Guillaume III by Garsinde de Provence, daughter of Alfonse
de Provence, etc.). One source given is Eugene Vasseur, Genealogie de 2 Nobles
Rougerats, p. 140.
Paul
PS I think we already discussed the amusing scenario that Piers was actually
illegitimate son of Edward I, put forth by Jeff Hamilton as satire on Chaplais'
new interpretation some years ago. Ironically, there is more documentary
evidence to support that than there is to make Amie daughter of Margaret de
Clare:
Reedpcgen
>and his place in History", University of London, 1939,
by Miss A. A. Taylor. I don't have immediate access to this.
Paul
Reedpcgen
recte: Rouergats
Seems to be:
Les Nobles Aïeux de trois Seigneurs Rouergats du 17ème siècle par Eugène
VASSEUR
Eugène Vasseur: "Les nobles ancêtres de trois seigneurs Rouergats"
"Mes recherches ont ensuite portées sur des ascendances de Nobles Rouergats des
XVII° et XVIII° siècles. (Grâce aux ouvrages de généalogie d'Eugène VASSEUR)."
But many pages (perhaps copied from each other) read "2 nobles" instead of
three.
Paul
Rosie Bevan
Haven't seen this before and it's very helpful and interesting.
Cheers
Rosie
C.Safon
20020804171628...@mb-fi.aol.com...
> >Eugene Vasseur, Genealogie de 2 Nobles>Rougerats, p. 140.
>
> three.
Les références bibliographiques sont: (all the references)
(First edition) "Généalogie de 2 nobles Rouergats"
(Second edition) "Nobles Aîeux de Trois Rouergats"
(Third edition) ... en préparation (coming soon)
----------------------------------------------------------------
Extrait d'un courrier récent d'Eugene Vasseur:
"J ai pratiquement fini mon travail... mais je dois:
reviser mes 460 et quelques tableaux
consulter l'imprimeur pour fixer le prix
passer une annonce dans les numeros d octobre d heraldique et genealogie et
le bulletin du cercle genealogique du rouergue
( avec indication du prix)
Je n entreprendrai l edition que si je peux reunir 300 acquereurs
En tous cas je prevois 50 exemplaires pour ma famille et mes amis
genealogistes
Ils pourraient sortir en octobre/novembre
L' index des patronymes et noms de lieux comprend environ 2000 noms
----------------------------------------------------------------
Claude Safon, CGL (Cercle Généalogique du Languedoc) (S283)
(mcsm...@wanadoo.fr)
Medieval genealogy search: Pierre Adhemar/Azemar de Cantobre,
Roquefeuil, ...
Mes ancêtres:
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Italie (Vellano, Pescia, Firenze)
SALVADORI, MICHELLI, BARTOLOZZI, SELVAGGI ...
Espagne (Bossost, Cirat, Montanejos)
SAF(F)ON(T), FORMAND, TUSON, GARGALLO, CATALAN, SANTOFARIA ...
Aveyron-Gard (Nant,St-Jean-du-Bruel,Dourbies,Lanuejols,Sauclières...)
AZEMAR(ASEMAR,AZEMA), ALBIGÈS, ARNA(L/UD), BALSAN, BELORY(BELLORI),
BOUAT, EGREFEUILLE(AGREFEUILLE), FABRE, JONQUET, LAURENS, LAVABRE,
MALZAC, MAZEL(MASELLE), REFREGIER, ROUX, SAUBERT, VALDAIRON,
VELLAS, VERGNET(VERNHET), VIDAL, ...
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