Google Groups no longer supports new Usenet posts or subscriptions. Historical content remains viewable.
Dismiss
Sir Hugh Tyrrell/Tirrell, Lord of Broncroft/Bromscroft Castle, Shropshire and Tyrrells Court, Hertfordshire?
174 views
Skip to first unread message
thomas...@hotmail.co.uk
May 22, 2018, 9:49:18 AM5/22/18
to
Hello
I'm wondering if anyone has done any research on the Tyrrell family and more specifically the Tyrrells of Hertfordshire/Herefordshire.
I've come across a 'Sir Hugh Tyrrell' but cant really find anything relating to Tyrrells in the area.
Firstly this is what is listed on the Herefordshire Visitation in relation to the quartering of the St Owen arms and the marriage of a Tyrrell to St Owen.
John St Owen of Gerneston and Burton marries Joane/Jane Tyrrell sometime in the late 1300s I believe, although there is a question on 2 generations so it could be mid 1300s.
She is listed as 'Joane Tyrrell, Daughter and Heir of Sir Hugh Tyrrell, Lord of Bromscroft/Broncroft, Shropshire and Tyrrells Court, Hertfordshire or Herefordshire?.'
Visitation gives the arms of Tyrrell as 'Az. A Lion Rampant. Ar. A Border Engr. Or' which according to Burkes is for the Tyrrells of Hertfordshire. The Tyrrells of Herefordshire have a very similar blazon as 'Az. A Lion Rampant. Ar. A Bend Indented Gu.'
On a Pedigree by someone else they list this for Hugh.
Sir Hugh is 5th/6th in descent from a 'Sir Randall Tyrell of Tyrells Court' and this extract from 'Robinson's Mansions and Manors of Herefordshire'
'Tyrell's Court belonged to a family of that name for several generations. The heiress, Joanna, daughter of Sir Hugh Tyrrell,(footnote, Hugh Tyrrell had a grant
of free warren at Solers Dilwyn 8 Edward III) Hugh being 6th in descent from Sir Randall Tyrrell, married John St Owen in the reign of Edward III.'
I've had no luck on this 'Sir Randall Tyrell' could 'Randall' be an error on Randolph/Ralph?
The visitation of Shropshire is quite vague and gives this descent from Sir Hugh.
Cotes of Woodcote through Downton to St Owen to Tirrell/Tyrrell.
Sir Hugh Tirrell son of -
Hugh Tirrell son of -
Hugh Tirrell son of -
(Sir?) Roger Tirrell son of -
Gilbert Tirrell son of -
Sir Ralph Tirrell (Is this 'Randall'?) the line ends here and doesn't give any wives for any of the Tirrells.
Whilst looking for this 'Tyrrells Court' I came across a 'Brinsop Court, Herefordshire' and whilst I'm not sure which source they got this information from but this is what is wrote on Wikipedia -
'The local legend has it that at the time of medieval settlement of the land at Brinsop in 1210 or earlier by a French Norman Ralph Torell, later a benefactor of the new founding of a priory abbey at Wormesley, a knight called St George slayed a dragon on the spot where the church was founded. Ralph's son Ralph also lived at Brinsop and confirmed the charter grant. Sir Roger was knighted by Edward I for fighting against his enemies during the Welsh Wars from 1282 onwards.[a] The third Ralph died without an heir, his sister therefore inheriting. She brought Brinsop in her dower to husband, Adam Lucas in 1305. In 1340 the King Edward III allowed a reversion charter to Ralph Tirell of 240 acres in fee for military service - de Domino Herberto filio Petri - a tenants of Lord Herbert.'
Was Brinsop Court, Tyrrells Court when owned by the Tirrell/Tyrrell's?
A History of Broncroft Castle also mentions albeit very briefly that in the early 1300s it was in the possession of a 'Roger Tyrrell/Tirrell'
Do this Tyrrells link into the Tyrrells of Avon Tyrrell and of Poix?
I'm wondering if anyone has done any research on the Tyrrell family and more specifically the Tyrrells of Hertfordshire/Herefordshire.
I've come across a 'Sir Hugh Tyrrell' but cant really find anything relating to Tyrrells in the area.
Firstly this is what is listed on the Herefordshire Visitation in relation to the quartering of the St Owen arms and the marriage of a Tyrrell to St Owen.
John St Owen of Gerneston and Burton marries Joane/Jane Tyrrell sometime in the late 1300s I believe, although there is a question on 2 generations so it could be mid 1300s.
She is listed as 'Joane Tyrrell, Daughter and Heir of Sir Hugh Tyrrell, Lord of Bromscroft/Broncroft, Shropshire and Tyrrells Court, Hertfordshire or Herefordshire?.'
Visitation gives the arms of Tyrrell as 'Az. A Lion Rampant. Ar. A Border Engr. Or' which according to Burkes is for the Tyrrells of Hertfordshire. The Tyrrells of Herefordshire have a very similar blazon as 'Az. A Lion Rampant. Ar. A Bend Indented Gu.'
On a Pedigree by someone else they list this for Hugh.
Sir Hugh is 5th/6th in descent from a 'Sir Randall Tyrell of Tyrells Court' and this extract from 'Robinson's Mansions and Manors of Herefordshire'
'Tyrell's Court belonged to a family of that name for several generations. The heiress, Joanna, daughter of Sir Hugh Tyrrell,(footnote, Hugh Tyrrell had a grant
of free warren at Solers Dilwyn 8 Edward III) Hugh being 6th in descent from Sir Randall Tyrrell, married John St Owen in the reign of Edward III.'
I've had no luck on this 'Sir Randall Tyrell' could 'Randall' be an error on Randolph/Ralph?
The visitation of Shropshire is quite vague and gives this descent from Sir Hugh.
Cotes of Woodcote through Downton to St Owen to Tirrell/Tyrrell.
Sir Hugh Tirrell son of -
Hugh Tirrell son of -
Hugh Tirrell son of -
(Sir?) Roger Tirrell son of -
Gilbert Tirrell son of -
Sir Ralph Tirrell (Is this 'Randall'?) the line ends here and doesn't give any wives for any of the Tirrells.
Whilst looking for this 'Tyrrells Court' I came across a 'Brinsop Court, Herefordshire' and whilst I'm not sure which source they got this information from but this is what is wrote on Wikipedia -
'The local legend has it that at the time of medieval settlement of the land at Brinsop in 1210 or earlier by a French Norman Ralph Torell, later a benefactor of the new founding of a priory abbey at Wormesley, a knight called St George slayed a dragon on the spot where the church was founded. Ralph's son Ralph also lived at Brinsop and confirmed the charter grant. Sir Roger was knighted by Edward I for fighting against his enemies during the Welsh Wars from 1282 onwards.[a] The third Ralph died without an heir, his sister therefore inheriting. She brought Brinsop in her dower to husband, Adam Lucas in 1305. In 1340 the King Edward III allowed a reversion charter to Ralph Tirell of 240 acres in fee for military service - de Domino Herberto filio Petri - a tenants of Lord Herbert.'
Was Brinsop Court, Tyrrells Court when owned by the Tirrell/Tyrrell's?
A History of Broncroft Castle also mentions albeit very briefly that in the early 1300s it was in the possession of a 'Roger Tyrrell/Tirrell'
Do this Tyrrells link into the Tyrrells of Avon Tyrrell and of Poix?
Peter Howarth
May 22, 2018, 1:16:32 PM5/22/18
to
On Tuesday, 22 May 2018 14:49:18 UTC+1, Thomas Bonnett wrote:
>Visitation gives the arms of Tyrrell as 'Az. A Lion Rampant. Ar. A Border
>Engr. Or' which according to Burkes is for the Tyrrells of Hertfordshire.
>The Tyrrells of Herefordshire have a very similar blazon as 'Az. A Lion
>Rampant. Ar. A Bend Indented Gu.'
Do not trust Burke for heraldry (or for genealogy). He does not give his sources so his entries, if by chance they are accurate, could be from anywhere and at any date before 1850. In this case, both his entries are wrong.
>Visitation gives the arms of Tyrrell as 'Az. A Lion Rampant. Ar. A Border
>Engr. Or' which according to Burkes is for the Tyrrells of Hertfordshire.
>The Tyrrells of Herefordshire have a very similar blazon as 'Az. A Lion
>Rampant. Ar. A Bend Indented Gu.'
The Parliamentary Roll (c.1312) [1] is a useful source because many of the entries are listed under counties. No. N 937 has 'Sire Roger Tyrel, de azure a un lion de argent od la bordure endente de or' under the heading 'Herefordschire'. Powell's Roll (c.1350) PO 356 has a painted shield 'azure, a lion rampant argent, a border indented or' labelled 's' Roger Tyrel'. William Jenyns' Ordinary (c.1360-80) WJ 292 has a painted shield 'azure, a lion rampant argent, a border engrailed or' labelled 'Mons Hugh Tyrell'.
Burke's entry for 'Az. A Lion Rampant. Ar. A Bend Indented Gu.' is a fabrication. There is no entry for such arms with these tinctures in the Dictionary of British Arms (i. 224) and none for a lion and bend engrailed or indented in any tinctures for Tyrell (or any other spelling of the name).
If I weren't totally opposed to such censorship, I would suggest that all copies of Burke's Armory be ceremonially burned. It is his fault that Papworth's Ordinary, perforce based on his work, is so unreliable.
Peter Howarth
0 new messages