Collectanea Genealogica: Bodleian Library, Oxford Mss

[Richard Carruthers]

I wonder if anyone is familiar with the following item I just stumbled
across while searching for something else?

http://bodley30.bodley.ox.ac.uk:8180/luna/servlet/detail/ODLodl~1~1~31393~120910:Collectanea-genealogica-

Probably some of you are already, but I thought I'd bring it to the
attention of the list.

All the best,

Richard

[John Watson]

Hi Richard,

Thanks for posting the link. Do we know anything else about this document, who wrote it and when?

The page giving genealogical notes on the family of Harrington of Hornby in Lancashire does not appear to contain any surprises. The other page which is a copy of some interesting evidences concerning the family of Lascelles of Sowerby, near Thirsk, Yorkshire, is stated to have been made by William Lascelles, senior of Pickering in 4 Henry IV (1402-3). Presumably these "evidences" were part of some property dispute, as this was long before the heralds started their visitations.

The wills of this William Lascelles, who died in 1416 and his wife Joan are printed in Testamenta Eboracensia, vol. 1, p. 384.

Regards,
John

[Peter Howarth]

I cannot be sure but it is very reminiscent of examples from the Harley MSS in the British Library written by a family of four generations all called Randle Holme and who all practised as herald painters and genealogists in Chester during the 17th century.

Peter Howarth

[sabaris...@gmail.com]

As a descendant of William de Lascelles and his wife Joan, I have struggled to decipher this text, but have been defeated in several places by either the handwriting or the Latin terminology. Could John or some other kind person please provide a translation? I'd be most grateful.
Regards
Saba

[John Watson]

Hi Saba,

Here is a rather rough and ready translation of the text. I can't figure out some of the place names and there are a few words which are not clear.

MS. Ashmole 804, pt. I, 17.

From the evidences of Lascelles of Sowerby

William son of John de Lascelles held lands in Brackenborough, Sowerby near Thirsk, Swainby, and Theakston which descended to him by hereditary right after the death of his father. His brother John held the peel-house of Northallerton with Goscelin Deiville, knight and other enemies of Edward formerly king of England, father of king Edward III, adherents of Gilbert de Middleton, traitor to that king who took his lands into the king's hand. By his charter dated 35 Edward III [1361], the lands were restored to William his [John's] son.
[See Calendar of Patent Rolls, Edward III, vol. 11: 1358-1361 (1911), 555.]

Charter of William Lascelles senior of Pickering, given at Allerthorpe, 6 Henry IV [1404-5].

Fine dated 11th year of king Edward son of king Henry [1283], between William de Lascelles junior and Wiliam de Lascelles senior of the manors of Sowerby and Brackenborough. Remainder to Thomas de Lascelles, brother of William de Lacelles junior, if he dies without heirs of his body, remainder to Isabel sister of Thomas.
[See Feet of Fines: CP 25/1/267/61, number 31 (YARS, cxxi, 66)]

William de Lascelles of Brackenborough grants to Thomas de St. Quintin and Margaret his wife, lands in the vill of Thornton. If the aforesaid Thomas dies without heirs of his body, remainder to Joan, daughter of Stephen de Swynnerton, if she dies without heirs of the body, remainder to Thomas, son of the aforesaid William de Lascelles. Given at North Ottringham 30 Edward III [1356].
[This one is a genealogical puzzle]

William de Lascelles of Sowerby without date. John son of William de Lascelles of Sowerby grants to William de Lascelles lord of Sowerby ?? in lands which came from the aforesaid William his father in the vills of Sowerby, Catterton?, Brackenbury, Theakston, Baynton, Malton and Allerthorpe. Given 1 Edward son of king Henry [1272-3].
[This one is a puzzle]

Robert Danby one of the king's justices of the common bench, Guy Roucliffe, William Burgh, and Richard Burgh, gentlemen give to Robert Lascelles son of John Lascelles, gentleman and Catherine wife of the same Robert, all lands etc. which came from William Lascelles father of the aforesaid John in Allerthorpe. Given 37 Henry VI [1458-9]

1236, Agreement between William de Lascelles son of Ralph de Lascelles and John the prior and the convent of Newburgh over the case discussed between them in the king's court concerning the marshes of Tranemire?

William son of William Talvas of Thirsk confirms to John de Lascelles, knight a messuage and two bovates of land in Storneby? Given A.D. 1324.

I, Andrew de Lascelles give to William de Lascelles, my son the lands that I have in the territory of ???. Witnessed by William de Lascelles of Rounton (Rungeton) and others. Given A.D. 1262.

Sir John de Barton, knight and Lucy his wife custodians of part of the lands of John de Lascelles, son and heir of William de Lascelles deceased, assign to Margaret who was the wife of the said William de Lascelles, as the reasonable dower of the said Margaret, all lands which were of William her husband in Sowerby and Brackenborough. Given at Sowerby 33 Edward I [1304-5].

Ralph de Lascelles ?? to William de Lascelles his lord and brother, a bovate of land he has by the gift of William de Lascelles his brother in the vill of Brackenborough. Without date.

We, John de Barton, Guy de Roucliffe and ?? de Moulton grant to William Lascelles junior and Elizabeth his wife, all of our manor of Brackenborough. If he dies without heir of his body, remainder to the right heirs of William Lascelles senior. Given at Brackenborough, 10 Henry 4 [1408-9].

Regards,

John

[sabaris...@gmail.com]

Hi John
thank you so much for this, your help is very much appreciated.
Regards
Saba

[Richard Carruthers]

To all those who replied to my initial posting about this: alas I know
no more about it than what can be gleaned from the Bodleian's
catalogue and the "Luna" platform/interface. I am sorry that just one
image is available. Perhaps the item will be scrollable in future.

Best to all from,

Richard

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[John Watson]

Whilst we are on the subject of the Lascelles family of Sowerby. Does anyone know how William Lascelles of Sowerby was in possession of one third of the manor of Tuxford, Nottinghamshire when he died in 1416.
See his widow's ipm:
http://www.inquisitionspostmortem.ac.uk/view/inquisition/21-077/

and his son's ipm:
http://www.inquisitionspostmortem.ac.uk/view/inquisition/26-503/

Presumably his mother was an heiress of this moiety of Tuxford, but I can't work out how. Apparently Thoroton couldn't work it out either.
http://www.british-history.ac.uk/thoroton-notts/vol3/pp219-226

Regards,
John

[John Watson]

I've now worked out part of the answer. Joan wife of William Lascelles of Sowerby was Joan Rocliffe, daughter of Richard Rocliffe and his wife Elizabeth. In 1407, she was heiress of her brother Sir David Rocliffe (although his ipm erroneously gives her name as Maud).(CIPM, 19, No. 161).

The manor of Tuxford, Nottinghamshire was divided between the three daughters and co-heirs of Robert de Markham who died in 1289. One of these daughters, Agnes married William de Saint Cruce who died in 1295, leaving three daughters and co-heirs, each of whom held one third of one third of the manor of Tuxford.

It was one of these 1/9 shares of the manor that was held by Joan Lascelles at her death in 1418, but which one?

The three daughters of William de Saint Cruce and Agnes de Markham were:

Joan, who married firstly John de Bayeux (Baiocis) and secondly Robert de Hackthorn.

Margery who married Peter Foun. Her daughter Elizabeth married Thomas de Mering. Their son Alexander de Mering was holding this share of the manor in 1417 (CP 25/1/186/38, number 6)

Elizabeth who married John de Barkworth. Her grand-daughter Joan de Barkworth (heiress of her brother John in 1354) married Simon de Burgh. They apparently had no children. In 1377, they granted their 1/9 share of the manor to Sir Robert de Swillington (CPR, 1374-1377, 456). This share of Tuxford is not recorded at Robert de Swillington's ipm in 1391 (CIPM, xvii, no. 123), so presumably he granted it to someone else.

In 1351, Robert de Rocliffe and his wife Elizabeth were pardoned for acquiring in tail from Henry de Bayhous [Bayeux] the manor of Little Markham, which is a third part of one third part of the manor of Tuxford, held in chief (CPR, 1350-1354, 177).

So it appears that the share of Tuxford held by the Lascelles of Sowerby family was the share of Joan de Saint Cruce who married John de Bayeux. Possibly it was Joan's son Henry de Bayeux who enfeoffed Richard de Rocliffe and his wife Elizabeth. Was Elizabeth his sister or his daughter?

Regards,
John

[Saba Risaluddin]

Hi John and others
Back from a longish absence, I am continuing my research into my forebears, among whom are William de Saint Cruce and, I believe, two of his three daughters. John refers to Joan's two marriages, to John de Bayeux (Baiocis) and secondly Robert de Hackthorn. According to the pedigree in Thoroton's History of Notts, vol 3, sub Tuxford, she was also married to Sir Thomas de Lungvillers.

The pedigree shows the three daughters of Richard Marcham or Markham and his wife Sara:
Cecilia, who married a de Bekering and secondly John de Bray
Bertha, who married William de Lungvillers
Agnes, who married William de Saint Cruce.

Thomas, William de Lungviller's son by Bertha, per Thoroton, married Joan, whose two previous marriage are shown as John de Baiocis and Robert Hackthorn. William and Joan had a son John and a daughter Elizabeth, who married Robert Malowel.

Thoroton states that "the second part or share of this manor which was Bertha's, descended to her son and heir John de Lungvillers, who, about 25 E.1., left it to Thomas de Lungvillers his brother (or as some copies, his son) and heir then nineteen years old. . .
John de Lungvillers, 26 E.3., was found son and heir of Thomas. . .
John de Lungvillers, 35 E.3., was found to have held this part of Tuxford."

In 1352 an order was issued to delivery a third of the manor of Tuxford to Thomas's son John:

Close Rolls Edw III, 12 July 1352: Westminster. "To John Waleys, escheator in the county of Nottingham. Order to deliver a third part of the manor of Tuxford and the advowson of a third part of the church there to John son of Thomas de Lungvillers, as the king has learned by inquisition taken by the escheator that Thomas at his death held no lands in his demesne as of fee or in service in chief in that bailiwick, but that he held the said third part and advowson, which are held in chief, for life, with remainder to John and the heirs of his body, by the king's licence, and the king has taken John's homage and fealty for the third part and the advowson."

It seems to me that this corroborates Thoroton's statement that Joan also married Thomas de Lungvillers. Or am I missing something?

Regards and thanks to all who have helped me in the past.

Saba

[Saba Risaluddin]

I omitted to include Thomas's Inq.p.m
CIPM vol X, 30. Thomas de Lungvillers or de Lungvileirs. Writ to the escheator to enquire as to the lands and heir of the said Thomas, 15 June, 26 Edw III [1352].
Nottingham. Inq. taken at Tuxford, Wednesday after St John the Baptist, 26 Edw. III
Tuxford. A third part of the manor (extent given) and the advowson of a third part of the church there held for life, with remainder to John his son and the heirs of his body, of the king in chief by service of a third part of a moiety of a knight’s fee, with further remainder to the right heirs of the deceased, as appears by the king’s charter of licence dated at Westminster, 1 May, 7 Edward III.
He died on Thursday before St. Bartholomew, 23 Edward III. John de Lungvileirs, his son, then aged 26 years and married, is his heir.

[Will Johnson]

This Joan de Barkworth "aged 25" 31E3; heiress of her brother John died 28 Dec 1404 IPM
However she is given different spouses, two of them
https://books.google.com/books?id=B7FJAAAAMAAJ&pg=PA222

[Saba Risaluddin]

Thank you. As the work you cite states, your Joan de Barkworth is the granddaughter of Elizabeth, third daughter of William de Saint Cruce and his wife Agnes. My interest is in the Lungvillers connection.

Here is another inq.p.m. that includes John Lungvillers in the succession from the three daughters of William de Saint Cruce: CIPM vol 3, no. 11. Margery de Merlay, late the wife of John de Lexinton. The writ is dated 30 Jan, 20 Edw I (1292); the inquisitions include the following:
Nottingham and Derby. Pleseley.... Margery de Merlay was dowered of the above named manor together with the manor of Tokesforth for all the lands &c. which were of John de Lexinton her husband, ancestor of Richard de Sutton, of Cecily the wife of John de Bray, Agnes the wife of William de Sayntecroys, and John de Longevilers, a minor and in the king’s wardship, for which cause the escheator took the said manors into the king’s hand. The manors are of the inheritance of the said Richard, Cecily, Agnes and John.

regards
Saba

[Saba Risaluddin]

To clarify (I hope). As I read it, Elizabeth de Lungvillers (wife of Robert Maulovel), was the daughter of Thomas de Lungvillers, younger brother of John de Lungvillers, who was a minor in 1292 and was dead by 1297. The brothers were sons of William de Lungvillers and his wife Bertha, daughter of Robert Markham and his wife Sarra, daughter and coheir of Jordan de Snitterton. Bertha's sister Agnes married William de Saint Cruce (pedigree in Thoroton's History of Nottinghamshire, vol III, Tuxford)

Thomas de Lungvillers (aged 19 in 1297) married Joan, one of the three daughters of William de Saint Cruce and his wife Agnes de Markham. Thomas died in 1352 (CIPM vol X, 30).

Would this not pose a problem of consanguinity?

The relevant inqs. p.m, Close Rolls records etc. are lengthy, but I can see no other conclusion to draw from them. I can post them in full if anyone is interested.
Regards
Saba