Sir Thomas Leigh, Lord Mayor of London and his ancestory

[Dale Scott]

Sir Thomas Leigh, Lord Mayor of London in 1558, died 1571.

Stirnet.com and genealogics.org list the father of Sir Thomas Leigh as Roger
Leigh, and the father of Roger as Richard, and the parents of Richard as
John Leigh and Alice Alcock. As their source they both site, "The Lineage
and Ancestry of H.R.H. Prince Charles, Prince of Wales" Edinburgh, 1977,
Paget, Gerald.

Others list the parents of Sir Thomas Leigh as Roger Leigh and an unknown
Stafford or Trafford, and the parents of Roger as Richard Leigh and Margery
Sprencheaux (or Spenchose) dau of Fulk Sprencheaux. If they have any sources
at all they site, Ancestral File and WorldConnect, although one did site
the "Descent of the Ridgway-Ridgeway Family in England and America" by
George C. Ridgway.

Is there any connection between Margery Sprencheaux/Spenchose and Sir Thomas
Leigh, Lord Mayor of London?

[WJhonson]

<<In a message dated 09/30/07 16:25:28 Pacific Standard Time, dale...@sigecom.net writes:
Stirnet.com and genealogics.org list the father of Sir Thomas Leigh as Roger
Leigh, and the father of Roger as Richard, and the parents of Richard as
John Leigh and Alice Alcock. As their source they both site, "The Lineage
and Ancestry of H.R.H. Prince Charles, Prince of Wales" Edinburgh, 1977,
Paget, Gerald. >>

================
IMHO a much better source with which to *BEGIN* your quest would be his DNB entry
here
http://books.google.com/books?id=KiYJAAAAIAAJ&pg=PA437&lpg=PA437&dq=leigh+of+wellington&source=web&ots=YcURSAi3ek&sig=c6CB9jtDqrzSBzC7apEBjT2yOuE#PPA437,M1

It is quite likely that all other accounts are dependent on the sources there cited.

BTW, his wife Alice Barker is there described as "niece" of Alderman Sir Rowland Hill.

Can anyone explain the exact way in which she was niece? I.E. was Rowland her father's brother-in-law? Or was he her mother's brother ?

Thanks
Will Johnson

[WJhonson]

A little caveat on that DNB entry, as they make a few shockingly bizarre genealogical connections which I can only attribute to the writer or editor being sloppy.

Will

[John Higgins]

Alice Barker, the wife of Sir Thomas Leigh, Lord Mayor of London, was the
daughter of John Barker alias Coverall by his wife Elizabeth Hill who was
the sister of Sir Rowland Hill. See, inter alia, the Visitations of
Shropshire (HSP 28).

Will is correct that the DNB entry does mis-state some of the genealogy
involved, especially of the descendants of Sir Thomas Leigh, but it doesn't
necessarily invalidate the the descents of famous people indicated to be
from Sir Thomas. The Sir Thomas Leigh who was created Baron Leigh of
Stoneleigh in 1643 was not the second son of Sir Thomas the Mayor, but
rather the grandson of that son and thus great-grandson of the Mayor. Also,
Sir Thomas the Mayor's daughter Winifred did not marry William Hale but
instead Sir George Bond, another Lord Mayor of London; it was their daughter
Rose who married William Hale. But I believe that the descents mentioned in
the DNB article for Winifred Leigh can still be traced to her.

All of this is well laid out in the BP article on the current Baron Leigh of
Stoneliegh [creation of 1839], which also gives some male-line ancestry for
Sir Thomas Leigh the Lord Mayor.

----- Original Message -----
From: "WJhonson" <wjho...@aol.com>
To: <gen-me...@rootsweb.com>
Sent: Monday, October 01, 2007 2:32 PM
Subject: Re: Sir Thomas Leigh, Lord Mayor of London and his ancestory

> <<In a message dated 09/30/07 16:25:28 Pacific Standard Time,
dale...@sigecom.net writes:

> Stirnet.com and genealogics.org list the father of Sir Thomas Leigh as
Roger
> Leigh, and the father of Roger as Richard, and the parents of Richard as
> John Leigh and Alice Alcock. As their source they both site, "The Lineage
> and Ancestry of H.R.H. Prince Charles, Prince of Wales" Edinburgh, 1977,
> Paget, Gerald. >>
>

> ================
> IMHO a much better source with which to *BEGIN* your quest would be his
DNB entry
> here
>
http://books.google.com/books?id=KiYJAAAAIAAJ&pg=PA437&lpg=PA437&dq=leigh+of
+wellington&source=web&ots=YcURSAi3ek&sig=c6CB9jtDqrzSBzC7apEBjT2yOuE#PPA437
,M1
>
> It is quite likely that all other accounts are dependent on the sources
there cited.
>
> BTW, his wife Alice Barker is there described as "niece" of Alderman Sir
Rowland Hill.
>
> Can anyone explain the exact way in which she was niece? I.E. was Rowland
her father's brother-in-law? Or was he her mother's brother ?
>
> Thanks
> Will Johnson
>

> -------------------------------
> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to
GEN-MEDIEV...@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the
quotes in the subject and the body of the message

[John Higgins]

I should have added that the earlier male-line ancestry of this family of
Leighs can be seen in Ormerod's Cheshire (Helsby ed.) and in Earwaker's East
Cheshire.

[JohnR]

On Oct 2, 12:00 am, "John Higgins" <jthigg...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> Alice Barker, the wife of Sir Thomas Leigh, Lord Mayor of London, was the
> daughter of John Barker alias Coverall by his wife Elizabeth Hill who was
> the sister of Sir Rowland Hill. See, inter alia, the Visitations of
> Shropshire (HSP 28).

Does anyone have this Leigh line going back to Lee of Langley (Salop)?

[Dale Scott]

For an "older" source, I checked THE VISITATION OF CHESHIRE, 1580 printed in
1882.
According to THE VISITATION:
Robert Leigh of Adlington married Sara Hanford and Maud Norley
Robert and Maud had Piers Leigh of Hanley
Piers Leigh married Ciceley Hagh and Margrett Daniers
Piers and Ciceley had Jenkin Leigh of the Ridge
Jenkin Leigh of the Ridge married Alice Alcock of the Ridge
Jenkin and Alice had Richard Leigh
Richard Leigh had Roger Leigh
Roger Lee had Sir Thomas Leigh who became mayor of London.

However, http://www.genealogics.org cites THE LINEAGE AND ANCESTRY OF H.R.H.
PRINCE CHARLES, PRINCE OF WALES, Edinburgh, 1977, Paget, Gerald and states
that Sir Thomas is decended from Piers Leigh and Margrett Danier rather than
Ciceley Hagh, and that their child was John Leigh rather than Jenkin Leigh.

My problem is which source is correct?

"WJhonson" <wjho...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:mailman.3059.1191274...@rootsweb.com...

[WJhonson]

<<In a message dated 10/03/07 14:10:16 Pacific Standard Time, dale...@sigecom.net writes:
However, http://www.genealogics.org cites THE LINEAGE AND ANCESTRY OF H.R.H.
PRINCE CHARLES, PRINCE OF WALES, Edinburgh, 1977, Paget, Gerald and states
that Sir Thomas is decended from Piers Leigh and Margrett Danier rather than
Ciceley Hagh, and that their child was John Leigh rather than Jenkin Leigh.

My problem is which source is correct? >>

---------------------------
Paget, a secondary source *without citations and without discussions* can never trump a primary source. The only way to trump a primary source is with the use of another primary source OR with a good secondary source which DISCUSSES the conflict in the primary source.

A secondary source which does not note and discuss the conflicts most likely does not know about them and so must be discarded.

Will Johnson