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Prince William and some Belgian ancestors
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Leo
Sep 11, 2012, 8:13:13 PM9/11/12
to GEN-MED...@rootsweb.com
This morning someone pointed out that one family was very badly represente on Genealogics.
The cause is that for this family there are Dutch and French spellings and some members call themselves after the family property and not the name.
This is a very ancient family. The origins I have not been able to find but.............
There was a Karl, Count of Aarschot, married to a Maria
|
Jan I van Aarschot, Heer van Schoonhoven-x-Ermengilde de Grez
|
Jan II van Aarschot, Heer van Schoonhoven died after 1241
|
Jan III van Aarschot, heer van Schoonhoven died after 1296
|
Jan IV van Aarschot, Heer van Schoonhoven, died 1338
|
Jan V van Aarschot, Heer van Schoonhoven, died before 1345
|
Jan VI van Aarschot, Heer van Schoonhoven, died before 1365
|
Jan VII van Aarschot, Heer van Schoonhoven
|
Hendrik I van Schoonhoven died 1478
|
Philips van Schoonhoven died 1490
|
Hendrik III Heer van Waanrode, married in 1491 Jeanne Cotereau
.
This is the beginning of this family. I have connected a fair amount and then started to look at the as yet not connected people with the same surname. I found a Beatrix van Aerschot-Schoonhoven married to a Jan van Olmen.
Their son Jan is O4847 in Gerald Paget's book on the ancestors of Prince Charles.
This Jan married Catherine van Ginderhoven dite van der Beken, their daughter Anna van Olmen married Martinus de Mol who was in the service of Emperor Charles V. For them I have three children: Antonia, Barbara and Pierre.
Does anyone know who the parents are of Beatrix van Aerschot-Schoonhoven and how she fits in with the earlier generations?
With many thanks
Leo van de Pas
Canberra, Australia
The cause is that for this family there are Dutch and French spellings and some members call themselves after the family property and not the name.
This is a very ancient family. The origins I have not been able to find but.............
There was a Karl, Count of Aarschot, married to a Maria
|
Jan I van Aarschot, Heer van Schoonhoven-x-Ermengilde de Grez
|
Jan II van Aarschot, Heer van Schoonhoven died after 1241
|
Jan III van Aarschot, heer van Schoonhoven died after 1296
|
Jan IV van Aarschot, Heer van Schoonhoven, died 1338
|
Jan V van Aarschot, Heer van Schoonhoven, died before 1345
|
Jan VI van Aarschot, Heer van Schoonhoven, died before 1365
|
Jan VII van Aarschot, Heer van Schoonhoven
|
Hendrik I van Schoonhoven died 1478
|
Philips van Schoonhoven died 1490
|
Hendrik III Heer van Waanrode, married in 1491 Jeanne Cotereau
.
This is the beginning of this family. I have connected a fair amount and then started to look at the as yet not connected people with the same surname. I found a Beatrix van Aerschot-Schoonhoven married to a Jan van Olmen.
Their son Jan is O4847 in Gerald Paget's book on the ancestors of Prince Charles.
This Jan married Catherine van Ginderhoven dite van der Beken, their daughter Anna van Olmen married Martinus de Mol who was in the service of Emperor Charles V. For them I have three children: Antonia, Barbara and Pierre.
Does anyone know who the parents are of Beatrix van Aerschot-Schoonhoven and how she fits in with the earlier generations?
With many thanks
Leo van de Pas
Canberra, Australia
John Dobson
Sep 13, 2012, 5:32:39 AM9/13/12
to Leo, GEN-MED...@rootsweb.com
Hi Leo,
I'm not sure what I have to say will help much. I cannot presently
identify Beatrix van Aerschot-Schoonhoven. I can, however, offer some
comments and corrections to Paget's account of the surrounding
ancestry.
First, "Ginderhoven," an error for which Paget is likely responsible
and which has spread like wildfire, should be Ginderboven dit Van der
Beken, a family of Zaventem in Brabant, and later of Mechelen in
Antwerp, in the early fifteenth century. This mistake also appears on p.
48 of De Moura's book on the ancestry of the Count of Paris (see list of
references at end).
Because the same block of ancestry was also inherited by the Belgian
royal family, it figures in Schweisthal's article "Marie van der Eycken
et les ancêtres belges du Roi," which unfortunately does not delve much
into the mediaeval ancestry. And as you will doubtless already know, it
also appears in Jose Verheecke, "An internet companion to Albert II [of
Belgium]," at
http://users.telenet.be/JoseVerheecke/vorstenhuis/albert2/ab1092.htm
(and other pages on the same site), where his numbers 17476-17479 match
the four ancestors below in Paget's Generation N. And these same
ancestors also figure as nos. 7028-7031 in the ancestor table of Queen
Juliana of the Netherlands (Van Duyn, pt. 5, p. 64, where the lines are
not extended further backward).
>From what I take to be contemporary heraldic quarterings for Marie van
der Eycken (Schweisthal, p. 191), the names of ancestors nos. 4841
through 4848 in Paget's Generation O are known to be: van der Eycken, de
Volxem, van Ofhuys, de Ginderboven dit van der Beken, de Mol,
d'Hooghvorst, d'Olmen, de Ginderboven [again]. Thus the accounts in
Paget 2:156 and Moura, p. 48, which agree with each other except for
spelling, are substantially correct up to that point. As to spelling,
the works consulted give both French and Dutch versions of most of the
names, and I haven't attempted to resolve the discrepancies, other than
to remove Paget's anglicisms. Furthermore, I haven't made an equal
attempt to extend all the lines, but rather concentrated on those which
seemed to have problems. Possibly some of the gaps could be filled with
more effort.
Here is my annotated and slightly extended version of Paget, with his
numbering system retained:
[Paget's Generation N]
2421. Jan van Eycken, Seigneur de Riviere, Ganshoorn, and Jette,
Receiver-General of Brabant, member Chambre des Comptes of Charles V of
Brabant in 1505 (GFNA 3:67), d. 9 May 1536; m. (2) (as her second
husband),
2422. Barbe van Ofhuys, heiress of the seigneury of Nederloo, d.
between 24 March 1543 and 30 December 1550, widow of Pierre Schats,
councillor of Brabant.
2423. Martinus van Mol
2424. Anna van Olmen
[Paget's Generation O]
4841. Henrik van der Eycken, Seigneur de Riviere, councillor of the
Duke of Brabant, d. 1466 (Paget).
4842. Barbara Gertruid van Volxen genaamd van Stalle
4843. Gabriel van Ofhuys, d. 24 September 1485, and mentioned on the
same tombstone as his parents. He and his wife are named in a fifteenth
century register as "Gabriel Ofhuys et Damoiselle Barbe, sa femme" (de
Raadt, p. 307). "Gabriel Ofhuys était receveur des domaines pour le
quartier de Bruxelles et avait pour femme Barbe van Ginderboven, dite
van der Beken. Les Archives générales du royaume renferment de lui trois
comptes, rendus du ler octobre 1477 au 30 septembre 1480...." (de Raadt,
p. 307).
4844. Barbara van Ginderboven genaamd van der Beken
4845. Gaspard de Mol, heer van Oetingen
4846. Marguerite van Hooghvorst van Grymberghen
4847. Jan van Olmen
4848. Catherine van Ginderboven genaamd van der Beken
[Paget's Generation P]
9681. Henrik IV van der Eycken, knighted by 1449, councillor,
chamberlain, and Grand Falconer to the Duke of Burgundy in 1461. He m.
(1) (as her second husband)
9682. Lélie de Grimberghe dite d'Assche, widow of Jean de Hertoghe.
9683. Paul van Volxem, Echevin of Brussels in 1452.
9684. Elisabeth Daneels dite de Watermael.
9685. Jean Ofhuys), d. 16 September 1445 (de Raadt, p. 307, quoting
Rombauts, Bruxelles illustré, p. 319, which I have not seen).
9686. Marie Stroefs.
9687. Gilles van Ginderboven, genaamd van der Beken, owner of "'t Hoff
ter Becke" at Zaventem in 1453, allegedly secretary and clerk of the
king of France in 1464 (GFNA). Hamme, p. 314, cites sources which seem
to call him and his wife Egidius van Ginderboven and Katheleyne van der
Eycken.
9688. Catherine [not Maria] van der Eycken.
9689. Johan de Mol, Heer van Oetingen, Lieferingen
9690. Catherine Hinckaert
9691. Jan van Hooghvorst van Grymberghen
9693. Jan van Olmen
9694. Beatrix van Aerschot-Schoonhoven
9695 = 9687
9696 = 9688
[Paget's Generation Q]
19361. Henri III van der Eycken dit van Campenhout, d. 1429-36 (Paget),
son of Henrik II van der Eycken
19362. Catherine de Weert, dit Sweerts, daughter of Roland de Weert,
dit Sweerts.
19367. Jean Daneels, dit de Watermael.
19368. Johanna Verpoorten.
19369. Nicolas Ofhuys.
19371. Jean Stroefs.
19373. Pierre van der Beken, alias Van Ginderboven, d. by 1453.
19374. ________.
19375. Arnould van der Eycken, son of Jean van der Eycken, Seigneur de
Saventhe.
19376. Marie Mettenschachte, daughter of Jean Mettenschachte and Judith
de Hertoghe (GFNA, 3:67).
=================
REFERENCES
Martin Schweisthal, "Marie van der Eycken et les ancêtres belges du
Roi," Annales de la Société royale d'archéologie de Bruxelles, 29
(1920): 181-206. Available online at
http://archive.org/details/annalesbrux20sociuoft.
D. Van Duyn, "De Kwartieren van Koningin Juliana," Jaarboek van het
Centraal Bureau voor Genealogie 16 (1962): 27-49; 17 (1963): 31-44; 18
(1964): 31-54; 19 (1965): 33-67; 20 (1966): 32-82.
Gerald Paget, The Lineage and Ancestry of H.R.H. Prince Charles, Prince
of Wales, 2 vols. Edinburgh & London: Charles Skilton, 1977.
André De Moura, Généalogies: 30000 ancêtres de Henri d'Orléans, comte
de Paris, 1908-1999 (2001).
Jose Verheecke, "An internet companion to Albert II"
http://users.telenet.be/JoseVerheecke/vorstenhuis/albert2/ab1092.htm
(and other pages).
GFNA = Généalogies des familles nobles et anciennes des dix-sept
provinces des Pays-Bas, 3 vols. [all published] (1781). See "Van Der
Beken, dit Van Ginderboven" (1:46-48) and "Eycken (3:65-79).
J.-Th. de Raadt, "Le registre de la confrérie de Sainte-Barbe en
l'église de Sainte-Gudule, à Bruxelles. (Une pièce en vers flamands
du XVe siècle)," Messager des sciences historiques, 1893, pp. 286-310.
Marcel F. E. van Hamme, "De Familie van Hamme (uit Hamme bij Assche),"
Vlaamse Stam 27 (1991), 305-321.
Best wishes,
John Blythe Dobson
>>> "Leo" <can...@netspeed.com.au> 11-Sep-12 7:13 PM >>>
-------------------------------
To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to
GEN-MEDIEV...@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without
the quotes in the subject and the body of the message
I'm not sure what I have to say will help much. I cannot presently
identify Beatrix van Aerschot-Schoonhoven. I can, however, offer some
comments and corrections to Paget's account of the surrounding
ancestry.
First, "Ginderhoven," an error for which Paget is likely responsible
and which has spread like wildfire, should be Ginderboven dit Van der
Beken, a family of Zaventem in Brabant, and later of Mechelen in
Antwerp, in the early fifteenth century. This mistake also appears on p.
48 of De Moura's book on the ancestry of the Count of Paris (see list of
references at end).
Because the same block of ancestry was also inherited by the Belgian
royal family, it figures in Schweisthal's article "Marie van der Eycken
et les ancêtres belges du Roi," which unfortunately does not delve much
into the mediaeval ancestry. And as you will doubtless already know, it
also appears in Jose Verheecke, "An internet companion to Albert II [of
Belgium]," at
http://users.telenet.be/JoseVerheecke/vorstenhuis/albert2/ab1092.htm
(and other pages on the same site), where his numbers 17476-17479 match
the four ancestors below in Paget's Generation N. And these same
ancestors also figure as nos. 7028-7031 in the ancestor table of Queen
Juliana of the Netherlands (Van Duyn, pt. 5, p. 64, where the lines are
not extended further backward).
>From what I take to be contemporary heraldic quarterings for Marie van
der Eycken (Schweisthal, p. 191), the names of ancestors nos. 4841
through 4848 in Paget's Generation O are known to be: van der Eycken, de
Volxem, van Ofhuys, de Ginderboven dit van der Beken, de Mol,
d'Hooghvorst, d'Olmen, de Ginderboven [again]. Thus the accounts in
Paget 2:156 and Moura, p. 48, which agree with each other except for
spelling, are substantially correct up to that point. As to spelling,
the works consulted give both French and Dutch versions of most of the
names, and I haven't attempted to resolve the discrepancies, other than
to remove Paget's anglicisms. Furthermore, I haven't made an equal
attempt to extend all the lines, but rather concentrated on those which
seemed to have problems. Possibly some of the gaps could be filled with
more effort.
Here is my annotated and slightly extended version of Paget, with his
numbering system retained:
[Paget's Generation N]
2421. Jan van Eycken, Seigneur de Riviere, Ganshoorn, and Jette,
Receiver-General of Brabant, member Chambre des Comptes of Charles V of
Brabant in 1505 (GFNA 3:67), d. 9 May 1536; m. (2) (as her second
husband),
2422. Barbe van Ofhuys, heiress of the seigneury of Nederloo, d.
between 24 March 1543 and 30 December 1550, widow of Pierre Schats,
councillor of Brabant.
2423. Martinus van Mol
2424. Anna van Olmen
[Paget's Generation O]
4841. Henrik van der Eycken, Seigneur de Riviere, councillor of the
Duke of Brabant, d. 1466 (Paget).
4842. Barbara Gertruid van Volxen genaamd van Stalle
4843. Gabriel van Ofhuys, d. 24 September 1485, and mentioned on the
same tombstone as his parents. He and his wife are named in a fifteenth
century register as "Gabriel Ofhuys et Damoiselle Barbe, sa femme" (de
Raadt, p. 307). "Gabriel Ofhuys était receveur des domaines pour le
quartier de Bruxelles et avait pour femme Barbe van Ginderboven, dite
van der Beken. Les Archives générales du royaume renferment de lui trois
comptes, rendus du ler octobre 1477 au 30 septembre 1480...." (de Raadt,
p. 307).
4844. Barbara van Ginderboven genaamd van der Beken
4845. Gaspard de Mol, heer van Oetingen
4846. Marguerite van Hooghvorst van Grymberghen
4847. Jan van Olmen
4848. Catherine van Ginderboven genaamd van der Beken
[Paget's Generation P]
9681. Henrik IV van der Eycken, knighted by 1449, councillor,
chamberlain, and Grand Falconer to the Duke of Burgundy in 1461. He m.
(1) (as her second husband)
9682. Lélie de Grimberghe dite d'Assche, widow of Jean de Hertoghe.
9683. Paul van Volxem, Echevin of Brussels in 1452.
9684. Elisabeth Daneels dite de Watermael.
9685. Jean Ofhuys), d. 16 September 1445 (de Raadt, p. 307, quoting
Rombauts, Bruxelles illustré, p. 319, which I have not seen).
9686. Marie Stroefs.
9687. Gilles van Ginderboven, genaamd van der Beken, owner of "'t Hoff
ter Becke" at Zaventem in 1453, allegedly secretary and clerk of the
king of France in 1464 (GFNA). Hamme, p. 314, cites sources which seem
to call him and his wife Egidius van Ginderboven and Katheleyne van der
Eycken.
9688. Catherine [not Maria] van der Eycken.
9689. Johan de Mol, Heer van Oetingen, Lieferingen
9690. Catherine Hinckaert
9691. Jan van Hooghvorst van Grymberghen
9693. Jan van Olmen
9694. Beatrix van Aerschot-Schoonhoven
9695 = 9687
9696 = 9688
[Paget's Generation Q]
19361. Henri III van der Eycken dit van Campenhout, d. 1429-36 (Paget),
son of Henrik II van der Eycken
19362. Catherine de Weert, dit Sweerts, daughter of Roland de Weert,
dit Sweerts.
19367. Jean Daneels, dit de Watermael.
19368. Johanna Verpoorten.
19369. Nicolas Ofhuys.
19371. Jean Stroefs.
19373. Pierre van der Beken, alias Van Ginderboven, d. by 1453.
19374. ________.
19375. Arnould van der Eycken, son of Jean van der Eycken, Seigneur de
Saventhe.
19376. Marie Mettenschachte, daughter of Jean Mettenschachte and Judith
de Hertoghe (GFNA, 3:67).
=================
REFERENCES
Martin Schweisthal, "Marie van der Eycken et les ancêtres belges du
Roi," Annales de la Société royale d'archéologie de Bruxelles, 29
(1920): 181-206. Available online at
http://archive.org/details/annalesbrux20sociuoft.
D. Van Duyn, "De Kwartieren van Koningin Juliana," Jaarboek van het
Centraal Bureau voor Genealogie 16 (1962): 27-49; 17 (1963): 31-44; 18
(1964): 31-54; 19 (1965): 33-67; 20 (1966): 32-82.
Gerald Paget, The Lineage and Ancestry of H.R.H. Prince Charles, Prince
of Wales, 2 vols. Edinburgh & London: Charles Skilton, 1977.
André De Moura, Généalogies: 30000 ancêtres de Henri d'Orléans, comte
de Paris, 1908-1999 (2001).
Jose Verheecke, "An internet companion to Albert II"
http://users.telenet.be/JoseVerheecke/vorstenhuis/albert2/ab1092.htm
(and other pages).
GFNA = Généalogies des familles nobles et anciennes des dix-sept
provinces des Pays-Bas, 3 vols. [all published] (1781). See "Van Der
Beken, dit Van Ginderboven" (1:46-48) and "Eycken (3:65-79).
J.-Th. de Raadt, "Le registre de la confrérie de Sainte-Barbe en
l'église de Sainte-Gudule, à Bruxelles. (Une pièce en vers flamands
du XVe siècle)," Messager des sciences historiques, 1893, pp. 286-310.
Marcel F. E. van Hamme, "De Familie van Hamme (uit Hamme bij Assche),"
Vlaamse Stam 27 (1991), 305-321.
Best wishes,
John Blythe Dobson
>>> "Leo" <can...@netspeed.com.au> 11-Sep-12 7:13 PM >>>
To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to
GEN-MEDIEV...@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without
the quotes in the subject and the body of the message
Olivier
Sep 13, 2012, 8:00:16 AM9/13/12
to Leo, GEN-MED...@rootsweb.com
Is
Regards
9688. Catherine [not Maria] van der Eycken
a paternal great-granddaughter of Jean, Duke of Brabant (1300-1355) himself grandson of Edward I Longshanks Plantagenêt, King of England 1239-1307?
Regards
John Dobson
Sep 13, 2012, 10:22:38 AM9/13/12
to Olivier, gen-me...@rootsweb.com, GEN-MED...@rootsweb.com
Hi Olivier,
Thank for mentioning this. I had intended to say something about this
claim, which I had noticed on several web pages.
There is no mention of such a descent in the account of the Eycken
family in Généalogies des familles nobles et anciennes des dix-sept
provinces des Pays-Bas, 3 vols. (1781), 3:65-79. A copy of this
remarkable and unfortunately never-completed work can be found at
http://www.earlydutchbooksonline.nl/. There is only link for it, as the
scanned copy has all three volumes in one binding.
Nor is any royal descent for Van Eycken shown in Van Aken naar Heden
(1994), a collection of Carolingian descents consolidated from the Dutch
genealogical journal Gens Nostra.
Thus, I have not found any evidence for the claim, and wonder if it may
be of only recent origin. Perhaps Leo or some other member of the list
will know something different.
Best wishes,
John Blythe Dobson
>>> Olivier <OlivierG...@gmail.com> 13-Sep-12 7:00 AM >>>
Thank for mentioning this. I had intended to say something about this
claim, which I had noticed on several web pages.
There is no mention of such a descent in the account of the Eycken
family in Généalogies des familles nobles et anciennes des dix-sept
provinces des Pays-Bas, 3 vols. (1781), 3:65-79. A copy of this
remarkable and unfortunately never-completed work can be found at
http://www.earlydutchbooksonline.nl/. There is only link for it, as the
scanned copy has all three volumes in one binding.
Nor is any royal descent for Van Eycken shown in Van Aken naar Heden
(1994), a collection of Carolingian descents consolidated from the Dutch
genealogical journal Gens Nostra.
Thus, I have not found any evidence for the claim, and wonder if it may
be of only recent origin. Perhaps Leo or some other member of the list
will know something different.
Best wishes,
John Blythe Dobson
Is
9688. Catherine [not Maria] van der Eycken
a paternal great-granddaughter of Jean, Duke of Brabant (1300-1355)
himself grandson of Edward I Longshanks Plantagenêt, King of England
1239-1307?
Regards
Le jeudi 13 septembre 2012 11:33:06 UTC+2, John Dobson a écrit :
<snipped>
9688. Catherine [not Maria] van der Eycken
a paternal great-granddaughter of Jean, Duke of Brabant (1300-1355)
himself grandson of Edward I Longshanks Plantagenêt, King of England
1239-1307?
Regards
Le jeudi 13 septembre 2012 11:33:06 UTC+2, John Dobson a écrit :
antoine barbry
Sep 13, 2012, 11:16:08 AM9/13/12
to John Dobson, gen-me...@rootsweb.com, GEN-MED...@rootsweb.com
Dear John,
A few lines to thank you so much for not only sending us interesting genealogical facts, but above all the list of your sources with, cherry on the pie, the weblinks to access and download them!
I had tried unsuccessfully to find "Généalogies des familles nobles et anciennes des dix-sept provinces des Pays-Bas" through google books and thanks to you last email, not only have I been able to finally download it, but you have alerted me on this very interesting Dutch books online website.
Don't hesitate to point out other interesting sources for Medieval and Renaissance Belgium and Netherlands available online!
Best regards,
Antoine Barbry
________________________________
From: John Dobson <j.do...@uwinnipeg.ca>
To: Olivier <OlivierG...@gmail.com>; gen-me...@rootsweb.com
Cc: GEN-MED...@rootsweb.com
Sent: Thursday, September 13, 2012 4:22 PM
Subject: Re: Prince William and some Belgian ancestors
Hi Olivier,
Thank for mentioning this. I had intended to say something about this
claim, which I had noticed on several web pages.
There is no mention of such a descent in the account of the Eycken
family in Généalogies des familles nobles et anciennes des dix-sept
provinces des Pays-Bas, 3 vols. (1781), 3:65-79. A copy of this
remarkable and unfortunately never-completed work can be found at
http://www.earlydutchbooksonline.nl/. There is only link for it, as the
scanned copy has all three volumes in one binding.
Nor is any royal descent for Van Eycken shown in Van Aken naar Heden
(1994), a collection of Carolingian descents consolidated from the Dutch
genealogical journal Gens Nostra.
Thus, I have not found any evidence for the claim, and wonder if it may
be of only recent origin. Perhaps Leo or some other member of the list
will know something different.
Best wishes,
John Blythe Dobson
>>> Olivier <OlivierG...@gmail.com> 13-Sep-12 7:00 AM >>>
Is
9688. Catherine [not Maria] van der Eycken
a paternal great-granddaughter of Jean, Duke of Brabant (1300-1355)
himself grandson of Edward I Longshanks Plantagenêt, King of England
1239-1307?
Regards
Le jeudi 13 septembre 2012 11:33:06 UTC+2, John Dobson a écrit :
<snipped>
> 9687. Gilles van Ginderboven, genaamd van der Beken, owner of "'t
Hoff
> ter Becke" at Zaventem in 1453, allegedly secretary and clerk of the
> king of France in 1464 (GFNA). Hamme, p. 314, cites sources which
seem
> to call him and his wife Egidius van Ginderboven and Katheleyne van
der
> Eycken.
>
> 9688. Catherine [not Maria] van der Eycken.
antoine barbry
Sep 13, 2012, 11:16:08 AM9/13/12
to John Dobson, gen-me...@rootsweb.com, GEN-MED...@rootsweb.com
Dear John,
Best regards,
Antoine Barbry
Best wishes,
John Blythe Dobson
>>> Olivier <OlivierG...@gmail.com> 13-Sep-12 7:00 AM >>>
Is
9688. Catherine [not Maria] van der Eycken
a paternal great-granddaughter of Jean, Duke of Brabant (1300-1355)
himself grandson of Edward I Longshanks Plantagenêt, King of England
1239-1307?
Regards
Le jeudi 13 septembre 2012 11:33:06 UTC+2, John Dobson a écrit :
<snipped>
> 9687. Gilles van Ginderboven, genaamd van der Beken, owner of "'t
Hoff
> ter Becke" at Zaventem in 1453, allegedly secretary and clerk of the
> king of France in 1464 (GFNA). Hamme, p. 314, cites sources which
seem
> to call him and his wife Egidius van Ginderboven and Katheleyne van
der
> Eycken.
>
> 9688. Catherine [not Maria] van der Eycken.
John Dobson
Sep 13, 2012, 4:27:39 PM9/13/12
to gen-me...@rootsweb.com, antoine barbry, GEN-MED...@rootsweb.com
Dear Antoine,
Thanks for your very kind words. I wish I were able to contribute to
SGM on a more regular basis, as such interesting questions get raised,
and responses to my suggestions have been generous and appreciative,
both on-list and off. I mention this because participants will see some
threads trail off, and may not guess that these have led to productive
collaborations behind the scenes.
Best wishes,
John Blythe Dobson
>>> antoine barbry <antoin...@yahoo.com> 13-Sep-12 10:16 AM >>>
> 9687. Gilles van Ginderboven, genaamd van der Beken, owner of "'t
Hoff
> ter Becke" at Zaventem in 1453, allegedly secretary and clerk of the
> king of France in 1464 (GFNA). Hamme, p. 314, cites sources which
seem
> to call him and his wife Egidius van Ginderboven and Katheleyne van
der
> Eycken.
>
> 9688. Catherine [not Maria] van der Eycken.
Thanks for your very kind words. I wish I were able to contribute to
SGM on a more regular basis, as such interesting questions get raised,
and responses to my suggestions have been generous and appreciative,
both on-list and off. I mention this because participants will see some
threads trail off, and may not guess that these have led to productive
collaborations behind the scenes.
Best wishes,
John Blythe Dobson
Dear John,
A few lines to thank you so much for not only sending us interesting
genealogical facts, but above all the list of your sources with, cherry
on the pie, the weblinks to access and download them!
I had tried unsuccessfully to find "Généalogies des familles nobles et
anciennes des dix-sept provinces des Pays-Bas" through google books and
thanks to you last email, not only have I been able to finally download
it, but you have alerted me on this very interesting Dutch books online
website.
Don't hesitate to point out other interesting sources for Medieval and
Renaissance Belgium and Netherlands available online!
Best regards,
Antoine Barbry
A few lines to thank you so much for not only sending us interesting
genealogical facts, but above all the list of your sources with, cherry
on the pie, the weblinks to access and download them!
I had tried unsuccessfully to find "Généalogies des familles nobles et
anciennes des dix-sept provinces des Pays-Bas" through google books and
thanks to you last email, not only have I been able to finally download
it, but you have alerted me on this very interesting Dutch books online
website.
Don't hesitate to point out other interesting sources for Medieval and
Renaissance Belgium and Netherlands available online!
Best regards,
Antoine Barbry
From: John Dobson <j.do...@uwinnipeg.ca>
To: Olivier <OlivierG...@gmail.com>; gen-me...@rootsweb.com
Cc: GEN-MED...@rootsweb.com
Sent: Thursday, September 13, 2012 4:22 PM
Subject: Re: Prince William and some Belgian ancestors
Hi Olivier,
Thank for mentioning this. I had intended to say something about this
claim, which I had noticed on several web pages.
There is no mention of such a descent in the account of the Eycken
family in Généalogies des familles nobles et anciennes des dix-sept
To: Olivier <OlivierG...@gmail.com>; gen-me...@rootsweb.com
Cc: GEN-MED...@rootsweb.com
Sent: Thursday, September 13, 2012 4:22 PM
Subject: Re: Prince William and some Belgian ancestors
Hi Olivier,
Thank for mentioning this. I had intended to say something about this
claim, which I had noticed on several web pages.
There is no mention of such a descent in the account of the Eycken
provinces des Pays-Bas, 3 vols. (1781), 3:65-79. A copy of this
remarkable and unfortunately never-completed work can be found at
http://www.earlydutchbooksonline.nl/. There is only link for it, as
the
scanned copy has all three volumes in one binding.
Nor is any royal descent for Van Eycken shown in Van Aken naar Heden
(1994), a collection of Carolingian descents consolidated from the
Dutch
genealogical journal Gens Nostra.
Thus, I have not found any evidence for the claim, and wonder if it
may
be of only recent origin. Perhaps Leo or some other member of the list
will know something different.
remarkable and unfortunately never-completed work can be found at
http://www.earlydutchbooksonline.nl/. There is only link for it, as
the
scanned copy has all three volumes in one binding.
Nor is any royal descent for Van Eycken shown in Van Aken naar Heden
(1994), a collection of Carolingian descents consolidated from the
Dutch
genealogical journal Gens Nostra.
Thus, I have not found any evidence for the claim, and wonder if it
may
be of only recent origin. Perhaps Leo or some other member of the list
will know something different.
Best wishes,
John Blythe Dobson
John Blythe Dobson
>>> Olivier <OlivierG...@gmail.com> 13-Sep-12 7:00 AM >>>
Is
9688. Catherine [not Maria] van der Eycken
a paternal great-granddaughter of Jean, Duke of Brabant (1300-1355)
himself grandson of Edward I Longshanks Plantagenêt, King of England
1239-1307?
Regards
Le jeudi 13 septembre 2012 11:33:06 UTC+2, John Dobson a écrit :
<snipped>
9688. Catherine [not Maria] van der Eycken
a paternal great-granddaughter of Jean, Duke of Brabant (1300-1355)
himself grandson of Edward I Longshanks Plantagenêt, King of England
1239-1307?
Regards
Le jeudi 13 septembre 2012 11:33:06 UTC+2, John Dobson a écrit :
> 9687. Gilles van Ginderboven, genaamd van der Beken, owner of "'t
Hoff
> ter Becke" at Zaventem in 1453, allegedly secretary and clerk of the
> king of France in 1464 (GFNA). Hamme, p. 314, cites sources which
seem
> to call him and his wife Egidius van Ginderboven and Katheleyne van
der
> Eycken.
>
> 9688. Catherine [not Maria] van der Eycken.
John Higgins
Sep 23, 2012, 1:05:57 AM9/23/12
to
Dobson has described above also highlight a perhaps surprising link -
to the Preston family, who are the current Viscounts Gormanston in the
Irish peerage, and probably to other Irish peers as well. The Preston
connection is mentioned in the GFNA source cited by John in his post
above (at 3:70), as well as in this pedigree in vol. 2 of "Topographer
and Genealogist" here (and possibly also at the Internet Archive):
http://books.google.com/books?id=EKhWAAAAIAAJ&pg=PA471#v=onepage&q&f=false
Paget numbers 2421 and 2422, Jan van der Eycken and Barbe van Offhuys
are ancestral to the current Viscount Gormanston through the related
Prestons who were Viscounts Taragh [or Tara].
The T&G pedigree is cited in the CP account of the Viscounts Tara/
Taragh, but the GFNA reference represents a correction (or addition)
to CP, as it provides the given name (Claire) of the 1st Viscount Tara
[or Taragh].
Bronwen Edwards
Sep 23, 2012, 5:56:59 PM9/23/12
to
On Saturday, September 22, 2012 10:05:57 PM UTC-7, John Higgins wrote:
>
> These additions to the ancestry of Prince Charles which John Blythe
>
> Dobson has described above also highlight a perhaps surprising link -
>
> to the Preston family, who are the current Viscounts Gormanston in the
>
> Irish peerage, and probably to other Irish peers as well. The Preston
>
> connection is mentioned in the GFNA source cited by John in his post
>
> above (at 3:70), as well as in this pedigree in vol. 2 of "Topographer
>
> and Genealogist" here (and possibly also at the Internet Archive):
>
> http://books.google.com/books?id=EKhWAAAAIAAJ&pg=PA471#v=onepage&q&f=false
>
>
>
> Paget numbers 2421 and 2422, Jan van der Eycken and Barbe van Offhuys
>
> are ancestral to the current Viscount Gormanston through the related
>
> Prestons who were Viscounts Taragh [or Tara].
>
>
>
> The T&G pedigree is cited in the CP account of the Viscounts Tara/
>
> Taragh, but the GFNA reference represents a correction (or addition)
>
> to CP, as it provides the given name (Claire) of the 1st Viscount Tara
>
> [or Taragh].
As a descendant of Jenico Preston and Catherine FitzGerald of Kildare, I find this addition to the line fascinating. Through the Gormanston Prestons and, of course, the Kildare Geraldines, the line does indeed connect to much of the Irish peerage, especially the Butlers of Galmoye and later Dunboyne. I wonder of the current Lord Dunboyne, John, has been made aware of this? Bronwen
>
> These additions to the ancestry of Prince Charles which John Blythe
>
> Dobson has described above also highlight a perhaps surprising link -
>
> to the Preston family, who are the current Viscounts Gormanston in the
>
> Irish peerage, and probably to other Irish peers as well. The Preston
>
> connection is mentioned in the GFNA source cited by John in his post
>
> above (at 3:70), as well as in this pedigree in vol. 2 of "Topographer
>
> and Genealogist" here (and possibly also at the Internet Archive):
>
> http://books.google.com/books?id=EKhWAAAAIAAJ&pg=PA471#v=onepage&q&f=false
>
>
>
> Paget numbers 2421 and 2422, Jan van der Eycken and Barbe van Offhuys
>
> are ancestral to the current Viscount Gormanston through the related
>
> Prestons who were Viscounts Taragh [or Tara].
>
>
>
> The T&G pedigree is cited in the CP account of the Viscounts Tara/
>
> Taragh, but the GFNA reference represents a correction (or addition)
>
> to CP, as it provides the given name (Claire) of the 1st Viscount Tara
>
> [or Taragh].
John Dobson
Sep 25, 2012, 6:23:23 AM9/25/12
to gen-me...@rootsweb.com, John Higgins
I was glad to learn, both from this message and the one by Bronwen
Edwards, of the Irish descendants of the Van der Eycken family. Although
I have no connection with the family myself, I thought it would be
interesting to see what could be found for this ancestry in
readily-available print sources. G. Steinman Steinman's notes on the
family in "Sepulchral Memorials of the English formerly at Bruges" in
the Topographer and Genealogist 2 (1853): 468-93 is certainly a start. I
was able to check some of his sources, but as they did not supply much
additional information, I have not included them in my own list of
references.
Below, I have outlined the ancestry of Claire van der Eycken for seven
generations, wherever possible. As it did not involve much repetition, I
have included the pertinent material from the Van der Eycken ancestor
table in my previous posting. I believe this outline is for the most
part sufficiently supported by the sources cited, but it would certainly
benefit from a more careful reading of the materials, and reflects
little attempt to use primary sources. I offer it for what it is worth;
and if anyone is able to improve it, they are encouraged to do so.
I have left the French quotations from the sources untranslated, as I
assume anyone venturing to work on these families will be able to read
French at least as well as I can. As before, the list of sources is
given at the end. Except for the work by Paget and the journal Vlaamse
Stam, I believe the materials used can be found in Google Books or the
Internet Archive, except where stated.
John Blythe Dobson
=====
Ancestry of Claire van der Eycken
1. Claire van der Eycken, her parents' heiress; m. in Jan. 1613, Sir
Thomas Preston, of Ireland, brother of the Earl of Gormaston (GFNA,
3:70).
2. Philippe-Charles van der Eycken, "Seigneur de Saint-George, Riviere,
Jette, Ganshoorn, &c. selon relief au 1 Juin 1570, quelles Seigneuries
créées en Baronnie 1'an 1654, après en Comté en 1659, en faveur de la
Maison de Kintschot, entrée depuis dans celle de Villegas. Il est mort
en 1591, étant recu à Bruxelles au Lignage de Serroelofs, le 13 Juin
1570." (GFNA)
3. Anne de Jauche/Jausse de Mastaing, d. 1615.
4. Corneille van der Eycken, Chevalier, Echevin de Bruxelles en 1555,
&c. Bourguemestre en 1556, Seigneur de Saint-George, Jette, Ganshoorn &
Riviere, mort en 1570." (GFNA)
5. Elisabeth Estor, Dame de Bygaerden, "qualifiée Dame de Saint-George
... morte en 1566" (GFNA, s.v. Estor).
6. Antoine Jauche/Jausse de Mastaing, Seigneur de Sassignies (Le
Carpentier, pt. 3, p. 704), d. by 1579.
7. Marie de Carondelet. In 1579 she is attested as "Marie de
Carondelet, weduwe jonkheer Antoine de Jausse, gezeid Mastaigne"
(Bijdragen tot de oudheidkunde en geschiedenis, inzonderheid van
Zeeuwsch-Vlaanderen 2 [1857]:162). She was still alive, at what must
have been an extremely advanced age, in June 1604, when she witnessed a
document as "Vrouwe Marie de Carondelet, weduwe des Heeren van
Chassegnies" (Vlaamse Stam 9 [1973]: 33). Her parentage not stated by Le
Carpentier, but it has been suggested that she was probably of the same
family as Paul de Carondelet, seigneur de Maulde, gouverneur de Bouchain
en Hainant," who was knighted at Madrid in 1597 (Bijdragen tot de
oudheidkunde en geschiedenis, inzonderheid van Zeeuwsch-Vlaanderen 2
[1857]:163). His parentage appears in Dumont, 1:49.
8. Jean van der Eycken, d. 9 May 1536, "Receveur-général du Brabant,
Conseiller & Maitre de la Chambre des Comptes en 1505, Seigneur de
Riviere, Ganshoorn & Jette." (GFNA). By his second wife, Barbe van
Ofhuys, he was an ancestor of the British royal family (see Paget, no. N
2421). He m. (1)
9. Elisabeth Stoops.
10. Bernard Estor, "Seigneur de Bygaerden, né en 1495, Echevin [de
Bruxelles]" (GFNA, s.v. Estor). GFNA states that he d. in 1520, but the
date 1 Feb. 1531, which is given in a nearly-contemporary list
reproduced in the work by Butkens which is cited by Steinman, seems more
likely. He m. (as her second husband)
11. Marguerite Baenst à Bruges, Dame de Bernhem St. George & de
Tillingen en 1525" (GNA), widow of Gilles or Simon de Hallewyn,
Chevalier, Seigneur de Leyschot. She, along with her son Jean, was
executed for heresy in 1547. See Bibliographie des martyrologes
Protestants Néerlandais, 2 vols. (La Haye, 1890), 2:668.
12. Adrien de Jauche, "fils cadet, auteur de la branche de Sassignies,
qui s'est éteinte au XVIIe siècle" (Vegiano). Le Carpentier names his
wives as (1) Agnes de Cuinghien and (2) Amalbergue, daughter of
Philippes seigneur de Ravesteyn, but does not state which of the wives
was mother of no. 6 above.
13. ________.
14. (de Carondelet)
16. Henrik [V] van der Eycken, Seigneur de Riviere, councillor of the
Duke of Brabant (GFNA), d. 1466 (Paget).
17. Barbara Gertruid van Volxem genaamd van Stalle.
18. Henri Stoops, "Conseiller du Brabant en 1500" (GFNA, s.v. Eycken;
similar information in NGSW).
19. Marguerite Raveschot.
20. Henri Estor [fils], "Chevalier, né le 7 Décembre 1425, Echevin de
Bruxelles en 1477, Conseiller du Conseil de Brabant en 1500." (GFNA,
s.v. Estor)
21. Jeanne van der Spoet.
22. (Baenst à Bruges)
24. Jacques de Jauche, "seigneur de Mastaing, St-Martin-Lierde,
Hérimez, Brugelette, etc., fut fait prisonnier près de Merville, avec
le duc de Gueldres, en 1487, et mourut en 1499" (Vegiano, s.v. de
Jauche). "Il ... fut inhumé aux Nonnains de Brugelettes" (Le
Carpentier). He m. (1)
25. Philippote De Lannoy. See the quartering for her brother, Boudouin
de Lannoy, in Jean-Baptiste Maurice, Blason des armoiries de tous les
chevaliers de l'Ordre de la Toison d'Or, p. 100.
32. Henrik IV van der Eycken, knighted by 1449, councillor,
chamberlain, and Grand Falconer to the Duke of Burgundy in 1461 (GFNA),
d. 1466 (his epitaph is transcribed in Recueil généalogique de familles
originaires des Pays-Bas ou y établies, 2:240 n. c). He m. (1) (as her
second husband)
33. Lélie de Grimberghe dite d'Assche, widow of Jean de Hertoghe.
34. Paul van Volxem, Echevin of Brussels in 1452.
35. Elisabeth Daneels dite de Watermael.
36. (Stoops)
38. Jacques Raveschot (GFNA, s.v. Eycken; NGSW, s.v. Van Eycken)
39. Marguerite van Dyck (GFNA) or Maria van Dyck (NGSW).
40. Henri Estor, "Chevalier, Echevin de Bruxelles 1'an 1453, Seigneur
de Bygaerden" (GFNA, s.v. Estor).
41. Elisabeth de Liere, fille de ____ de Liere et de ____ Blondel.
42. Bernard van der Spoet, Chevalier.
48. André de Jauche, d. 1456, "seigneur de Mastaing, Sassignies,
Hérimez et Brugelette, qui suivit, en 1421, Philippe-le-Bon, duc de
Bourgogne, lequel passa en France pour venger la mort du duc Jean, son
père" (Vegiano, s.v. de Jauche).
49. Marguerite, dame de Masmines, de Berleghem, de Hemelveerdighem et
d'Uytberghen.
50. Baudouin De Lannoy, dit Le Begue, seigneur de Molembais, gouverneur
de Lille (Vegiano, s.v. de Jauche). Vegiano says he was a knight of the
Order of the Golden Fleece, but this must be a confusion with his son of
the same name, for the registration of this knight's quarters shows he
was the son of a De Lannoy and a De Berlaimont; see Jean-Baptiste
Maurice, Blason des armoiries de tous les chevaliers de l'Ordre de la
Toison d'Or, p. 100. He m. (2)
51. Adrienne De Berlaimont, dame de Solre-le-Château, en Hainaut
(Dumont, 3:91).
64. Henri III van der Eycken dit van Campenhout, d. 1429-36 (Paget)
65. Catherine de Weert, dit s'Weerts.
66. (de Grimberghe dite d'Assche)
68. (van Volxem)
70. Jean Daneels, dit de Watermael.
71. Johanna Verpoorten.
76. (Raveschot)
78. (van Dyck)
80. Guillaume Estor, "Chevalier en 1390, Echevin à Bruxelles en 1408"
(GFNA, s.v. Estor).
81. Catherine de Bygaerden, dite Rogeman,
82. (de Liere)
83. (Blondel)
84. (van der Spoet)
96. Jean de Jauche, "seigneur de Mastaing et de Sassignies, mort à la
Terre-Sainte en 1398" (Vegiano, s.v. de Jauche).
97. Isabeau De Rochefort, dame de Hérimez et de Brugelette, en
Hainaut.
98. Robert, "seigneur de Masmines, Berleghem, Hemelverdigen,
Viterberghe, fut tué combatant vaillamment en la sanglante journée de
Liege, avec Jean de Ghisteles Seigneur de Distzele" (Bruslé de
Montpleinchamp, pp. 147-48); chevalier de la Toison d'or (Vegiano, s.v.
de Jauche).
99. Isabella de Leervergem (Bruslé de Montpleinchamp, pp. 147-48).
100. (De Lannoy)
101. (Molembais)
102. Jacques de Berlaimont, seigneur de Solre-le-Château (Dumont,
3:90).
103. Catherine de Robersart.
128. Henrik II van der Eycken (gezegt Campenhout per NGSW).
129. Helena van Berchem/Berthout, van Mechelen (NGSW).
130. Roland de Weert, dit s'Weerts.
160. Henri Estor, "Echevin de Bruxelles en 1357," fils de "Jean Estor,
alias Esteren (fils de Jean)" et de "Catherine de Herthoghe, fille de
Goswin & de Jutte Eggloy" (GFNA, s.v. Estor)
161. Marie de Berlaer, "fille de Louis, Seigneur de Helmont &
Keerbergen" (GFNA)
162. Guillaume Rogeman, Seigneur de Bygaerden (GFNA, s.v. Estor).
163. Elisabeth Uyten-Steenweghen, "fille de Jean Uyten-Steenweghen &
Marguerite s'Leeuws, dite Versophien" (GFNA, s.v. Estor).
192. Jean-Guillaume de Jauche, "seigneur de Mastaing et de Sassignies,
mort en 1388" (Vegiano, s.v. de Jauche, where the line is carried back
two more generations)
193. Isabeau De Trazegnies.
196. Wallerand, "seigneur de Masmines, tiroit son extraction de
Gislebert de Sotenghien, mary de Mahaut de Bethune" (Le Carpentier,
3:704).
204. Gilles de Berlaimont (Dumont, 3:90)
205. Jeanne de Barbenson, dame héritière de Solre-le-Château (see
Dumont, 3:90, for additional ancestry).
=================
REFERENCES
Bruslé de Montpleinchamp, Jean Chrysostôme, Histoire des ducs de
Bourgogne (Cologne, 1687).
Le Carpentier, Jean, Histoire généalogique des Païs-Bas ou histoire de
Cambray et du Cambresis, 2 vols. in 4 pts. (Leiden, 1664). See "Jauche
ou Jauce-Mastaing" (pt. 3, pp. 701-706). Available at
http://books.familysearch.org/.
Dumont, ____, Fragmens généalogiques, 4 vols. (Gand, 1862).
GFNA = Généalogies des familles nobles et anciennes des dix-sept
provinces des Pays-Bas, 3 vols. [all published] (1781). See "Eycken"
(3:65-79), "Estor" (3:34-38). Available at
http://www.earlydutchbooksonline.nl/.
Maurice, Jean-Baptiste, Blason des armoiries de tous les chevaliers de
l'Ordre de la Toison d'Or depuis la première institution jusques à
present (1667).
NGSW = Nederlandsch geslacht- stam- en wapen-boek, door Abraham
Ferwerda en Jacobus Kok, 2 vols. [all published] (Amsterdam, 1785),
unpaginated. See "Van Eycken."
Paget, Gerald, The Lineage and Ancestry of H.R.H. Prince Charles,
établies, 2 vols. (Rotterdam, 1775-1778). See "d'Eyck, Van Eyck ou
Van der Eyken" (2:231-63).
Steinman, G. Steinman, "Sepulchral Memorials of the English formerly at
Bruges," Topographer and Genealogist 2 (1853): 468-93.
Vegiano et al., Nobiliaire des Pays-Bas et du comté de Bourgogne, 4
vols. (Gand, 1865-1868). See "de Jauche" (3:1108-13).
>>> John Higgins <jhigg...@yahoo.com> 23-Sep-12 12:05 AM >>>
<snipped>
These additions to the ancestry of Prince Charles which John Blythe
Dobson has described above also highlight a perhaps surprising link -
to the Preston family, who are the current Viscounts Gormanston in the
Irish peerage, and probably to other Irish peers as well. The Preston
connection is mentioned in the GFNA source cited by John in his post
above (at 3:70), as well as in this pedigree in vol. 2 of "Topographer
and Genealogist" here (and possibly also at the Internet Archive):
http://books.google.com/books?id=EKhWAAAAIAAJ&pg=PA471#v=onepage&q&f=false
Paget numbers 2421 and 2422, Jan van der Eycken and Barbe van Offhuys
are ancestral to the current Viscount Gormanston through the related
Prestons who were Viscounts Taragh [or Tara].
The T&G pedigree is cited in the CP account of the Viscounts Tara/
Taragh, but the GFNA reference represents a correction (or addition)
to CP, as it provides the given name (Claire) of the 1st Viscount Tara
[or Taragh].
Edwards, of the Irish descendants of the Van der Eycken family. Although
I have no connection with the family myself, I thought it would be
interesting to see what could be found for this ancestry in
readily-available print sources. G. Steinman Steinman's notes on the
family in "Sepulchral Memorials of the English formerly at Bruges" in
the Topographer and Genealogist 2 (1853): 468-93 is certainly a start. I
was able to check some of his sources, but as they did not supply much
additional information, I have not included them in my own list of
references.
Below, I have outlined the ancestry of Claire van der Eycken for seven
generations, wherever possible. As it did not involve much repetition, I
have included the pertinent material from the Van der Eycken ancestor
table in my previous posting. I believe this outline is for the most
part sufficiently supported by the sources cited, but it would certainly
benefit from a more careful reading of the materials, and reflects
little attempt to use primary sources. I offer it for what it is worth;
and if anyone is able to improve it, they are encouraged to do so.
I have left the French quotations from the sources untranslated, as I
assume anyone venturing to work on these families will be able to read
French at least as well as I can. As before, the list of sources is
given at the end. Except for the work by Paget and the journal Vlaamse
Stam, I believe the materials used can be found in Google Books or the
Internet Archive, except where stated.
John Blythe Dobson
=====
Ancestry of Claire van der Eycken
1. Claire van der Eycken, her parents' heiress; m. in Jan. 1613, Sir
Thomas Preston, of Ireland, brother of the Earl of Gormaston (GFNA,
3:70).
2. Philippe-Charles van der Eycken, "Seigneur de Saint-George, Riviere,
Jette, Ganshoorn, &c. selon relief au 1 Juin 1570, quelles Seigneuries
créées en Baronnie 1'an 1654, après en Comté en 1659, en faveur de la
Maison de Kintschot, entrée depuis dans celle de Villegas. Il est mort
en 1591, étant recu à Bruxelles au Lignage de Serroelofs, le 13 Juin
1570." (GFNA)
3. Anne de Jauche/Jausse de Mastaing, d. 1615.
4. Corneille van der Eycken, Chevalier, Echevin de Bruxelles en 1555,
&c. Bourguemestre en 1556, Seigneur de Saint-George, Jette, Ganshoorn &
Riviere, mort en 1570." (GFNA)
5. Elisabeth Estor, Dame de Bygaerden, "qualifiée Dame de Saint-George
... morte en 1566" (GFNA, s.v. Estor).
6. Antoine Jauche/Jausse de Mastaing, Seigneur de Sassignies (Le
Carpentier, pt. 3, p. 704), d. by 1579.
7. Marie de Carondelet. In 1579 she is attested as "Marie de
Carondelet, weduwe jonkheer Antoine de Jausse, gezeid Mastaigne"
(Bijdragen tot de oudheidkunde en geschiedenis, inzonderheid van
Zeeuwsch-Vlaanderen 2 [1857]:162). She was still alive, at what must
have been an extremely advanced age, in June 1604, when she witnessed a
document as "Vrouwe Marie de Carondelet, weduwe des Heeren van
Chassegnies" (Vlaamse Stam 9 [1973]: 33). Her parentage not stated by Le
Carpentier, but it has been suggested that she was probably of the same
family as Paul de Carondelet, seigneur de Maulde, gouverneur de Bouchain
en Hainant," who was knighted at Madrid in 1597 (Bijdragen tot de
oudheidkunde en geschiedenis, inzonderheid van Zeeuwsch-Vlaanderen 2
[1857]:163). His parentage appears in Dumont, 1:49.
8. Jean van der Eycken, d. 9 May 1536, "Receveur-général du Brabant,
Conseiller & Maitre de la Chambre des Comptes en 1505, Seigneur de
Riviere, Ganshoorn & Jette." (GFNA). By his second wife, Barbe van
Ofhuys, he was an ancestor of the British royal family (see Paget, no. N
2421). He m. (1)
9. Elisabeth Stoops.
10. Bernard Estor, "Seigneur de Bygaerden, né en 1495, Echevin [de
Bruxelles]" (GFNA, s.v. Estor). GFNA states that he d. in 1520, but the
date 1 Feb. 1531, which is given in a nearly-contemporary list
reproduced in the work by Butkens which is cited by Steinman, seems more
likely. He m. (as her second husband)
11. Marguerite Baenst à Bruges, Dame de Bernhem St. George & de
Tillingen en 1525" (GNA), widow of Gilles or Simon de Hallewyn,
Chevalier, Seigneur de Leyschot. She, along with her son Jean, was
executed for heresy in 1547. See Bibliographie des martyrologes
Protestants Néerlandais, 2 vols. (La Haye, 1890), 2:668.
12. Adrien de Jauche, "fils cadet, auteur de la branche de Sassignies,
qui s'est éteinte au XVIIe siècle" (Vegiano). Le Carpentier names his
wives as (1) Agnes de Cuinghien and (2) Amalbergue, daughter of
Philippes seigneur de Ravesteyn, but does not state which of the wives
was mother of no. 6 above.
13. ________.
14. (de Carondelet)
16. Henrik [V] van der Eycken, Seigneur de Riviere, councillor of the
Duke of Brabant (GFNA), d. 1466 (Paget).
17. Barbara Gertruid van Volxem genaamd van Stalle.
18. Henri Stoops, "Conseiller du Brabant en 1500" (GFNA, s.v. Eycken;
similar information in NGSW).
19. Marguerite Raveschot.
20. Henri Estor [fils], "Chevalier, né le 7 Décembre 1425, Echevin de
Bruxelles en 1477, Conseiller du Conseil de Brabant en 1500." (GFNA,
s.v. Estor)
21. Jeanne van der Spoet.
22. (Baenst à Bruges)
24. Jacques de Jauche, "seigneur de Mastaing, St-Martin-Lierde,
Hérimez, Brugelette, etc., fut fait prisonnier près de Merville, avec
le duc de Gueldres, en 1487, et mourut en 1499" (Vegiano, s.v. de
Jauche). "Il ... fut inhumé aux Nonnains de Brugelettes" (Le
Carpentier). He m. (1)
25. Philippote De Lannoy. See the quartering for her brother, Boudouin
de Lannoy, in Jean-Baptiste Maurice, Blason des armoiries de tous les
chevaliers de l'Ordre de la Toison d'Or, p. 100.
32. Henrik IV van der Eycken, knighted by 1449, councillor,
chamberlain, and Grand Falconer to the Duke of Burgundy in 1461 (GFNA),
d. 1466 (his epitaph is transcribed in Recueil généalogique de familles
originaires des Pays-Bas ou y établies, 2:240 n. c). He m. (1) (as her
second husband)
33. Lélie de Grimberghe dite d'Assche, widow of Jean de Hertoghe.
34. Paul van Volxem, Echevin of Brussels in 1452.
35. Elisabeth Daneels dite de Watermael.
36. (Stoops)
38. Jacques Raveschot (GFNA, s.v. Eycken; NGSW, s.v. Van Eycken)
39. Marguerite van Dyck (GFNA) or Maria van Dyck (NGSW).
40. Henri Estor, "Chevalier, Echevin de Bruxelles 1'an 1453, Seigneur
de Bygaerden" (GFNA, s.v. Estor).
41. Elisabeth de Liere, fille de ____ de Liere et de ____ Blondel.
42. Bernard van der Spoet, Chevalier.
48. André de Jauche, d. 1456, "seigneur de Mastaing, Sassignies,
Hérimez et Brugelette, qui suivit, en 1421, Philippe-le-Bon, duc de
Bourgogne, lequel passa en France pour venger la mort du duc Jean, son
père" (Vegiano, s.v. de Jauche).
49. Marguerite, dame de Masmines, de Berleghem, de Hemelveerdighem et
d'Uytberghen.
50. Baudouin De Lannoy, dit Le Begue, seigneur de Molembais, gouverneur
de Lille (Vegiano, s.v. de Jauche). Vegiano says he was a knight of the
Order of the Golden Fleece, but this must be a confusion with his son of
the same name, for the registration of this knight's quarters shows he
was the son of a De Lannoy and a De Berlaimont; see Jean-Baptiste
Maurice, Blason des armoiries de tous les chevaliers de l'Ordre de la
Toison d'Or, p. 100. He m. (2)
51. Adrienne De Berlaimont, dame de Solre-le-Château, en Hainaut
(Dumont, 3:91).
64. Henri III van der Eycken dit van Campenhout, d. 1429-36 (Paget)
65. Catherine de Weert, dit s'Weerts.
66. (de Grimberghe dite d'Assche)
68. (van Volxem)
70. Jean Daneels, dit de Watermael.
71. Johanna Verpoorten.
76. (Raveschot)
78. (van Dyck)
80. Guillaume Estor, "Chevalier en 1390, Echevin à Bruxelles en 1408"
(GFNA, s.v. Estor).
81. Catherine de Bygaerden, dite Rogeman,
82. (de Liere)
83. (Blondel)
84. (van der Spoet)
96. Jean de Jauche, "seigneur de Mastaing et de Sassignies, mort à la
Terre-Sainte en 1398" (Vegiano, s.v. de Jauche).
97. Isabeau De Rochefort, dame de Hérimez et de Brugelette, en
Hainaut.
98. Robert, "seigneur de Masmines, Berleghem, Hemelverdigen,
Viterberghe, fut tué combatant vaillamment en la sanglante journée de
Liege, avec Jean de Ghisteles Seigneur de Distzele" (Bruslé de
Montpleinchamp, pp. 147-48); chevalier de la Toison d'or (Vegiano, s.v.
de Jauche).
99. Isabella de Leervergem (Bruslé de Montpleinchamp, pp. 147-48).
100. (De Lannoy)
101. (Molembais)
102. Jacques de Berlaimont, seigneur de Solre-le-Château (Dumont,
3:90).
103. Catherine de Robersart.
128. Henrik II van der Eycken (gezegt Campenhout per NGSW).
129. Helena van Berchem/Berthout, van Mechelen (NGSW).
130. Roland de Weert, dit s'Weerts.
160. Henri Estor, "Echevin de Bruxelles en 1357," fils de "Jean Estor,
alias Esteren (fils de Jean)" et de "Catherine de Herthoghe, fille de
Goswin & de Jutte Eggloy" (GFNA, s.v. Estor)
161. Marie de Berlaer, "fille de Louis, Seigneur de Helmont &
Keerbergen" (GFNA)
162. Guillaume Rogeman, Seigneur de Bygaerden (GFNA, s.v. Estor).
163. Elisabeth Uyten-Steenweghen, "fille de Jean Uyten-Steenweghen &
Marguerite s'Leeuws, dite Versophien" (GFNA, s.v. Estor).
192. Jean-Guillaume de Jauche, "seigneur de Mastaing et de Sassignies,
mort en 1388" (Vegiano, s.v. de Jauche, where the line is carried back
two more generations)
193. Isabeau De Trazegnies.
196. Wallerand, "seigneur de Masmines, tiroit son extraction de
Gislebert de Sotenghien, mary de Mahaut de Bethune" (Le Carpentier,
3:704).
204. Gilles de Berlaimont (Dumont, 3:90)
205. Jeanne de Barbenson, dame héritière de Solre-le-Château (see
Dumont, 3:90, for additional ancestry).
=================
REFERENCES
Bruslé de Montpleinchamp, Jean Chrysostôme, Histoire des ducs de
Bourgogne (Cologne, 1687).
Le Carpentier, Jean, Histoire généalogique des Païs-Bas ou histoire de
Cambray et du Cambresis, 2 vols. in 4 pts. (Leiden, 1664). See "Jauche
ou Jauce-Mastaing" (pt. 3, pp. 701-706). Available at
http://books.familysearch.org/.
Dumont, ____, Fragmens généalogiques, 4 vols. (Gand, 1862).
GFNA = Généalogies des familles nobles et anciennes des dix-sept
(3:65-79), "Estor" (3:34-38). Available at
http://www.earlydutchbooksonline.nl/.
Maurice, Jean-Baptiste, Blason des armoiries de tous les chevaliers de
l'Ordre de la Toison d'Or depuis la première institution jusques à
present (1667).
NGSW = Nederlandsch geslacht- stam- en wapen-boek, door Abraham
Ferwerda en Jacobus Kok, 2 vols. [all published] (Amsterdam, 1785),
unpaginated. See "Van Eycken."
Paget, Gerald, The Lineage and Ancestry of H.R.H. Prince Charles,
Prince of Wales, 2 vols. Edinburgh & London: Charles Skilton, 1977.
Recueil généalogique de familles originaires des Pays-Bas ou y
établies, 2 vols. (Rotterdam, 1775-1778). See "d'Eyck, Van Eyck ou
Van der Eyken" (2:231-63).
Steinman, G. Steinman, "Sepulchral Memorials of the English formerly at
Bruges," Topographer and Genealogist 2 (1853): 468-93.
Vegiano et al., Nobiliaire des Pays-Bas et du comté de Bourgogne, 4
vols. (Gand, 1865-1868). See "de Jauche" (3:1108-13).
>>> John Higgins <jhigg...@yahoo.com> 23-Sep-12 12:05 AM >>>
<snipped>
These additions to the ancestry of Prince Charles which John Blythe
Dobson has described above also highlight a perhaps surprising link -
to the Preston family, who are the current Viscounts Gormanston in the
Irish peerage, and probably to other Irish peers as well. The Preston
connection is mentioned in the GFNA source cited by John in his post
above (at 3:70), as well as in this pedigree in vol. 2 of "Topographer
and Genealogist" here (and possibly also at the Internet Archive):
http://books.google.com/books?id=EKhWAAAAIAAJ&pg=PA471#v=onepage&q&f=false
Paget numbers 2421 and 2422, Jan van der Eycken and Barbe van Offhuys
are ancestral to the current Viscount Gormanston through the related
Prestons who were Viscounts Taragh [or Tara].
The T&G pedigree is cited in the CP account of the Viscounts Tara/
Taragh, but the GFNA reference represents a correction (or addition)
to CP, as it provides the given name (Claire) of the 1st Viscount Tara
[or Taragh].
John Higgins
Sep 25, 2012, 11:44:32 AM9/25/12
to
>
> Dumont, ____, Fragmens généalogiques, 4 vols. (Gand, 1862).
>
> GFNA = Généalogies des familles nobles et anciennes des dix-sept
> provinces des Pays-Bas, 3 vols. [all published] (1781). See "Eycken"
> (3:65-79), "Estor" (3:34-38). Available athttp://www.earlydutchbooksonline.nl/.
> Dumont, ____, Fragmens généalogiques, 4 vols. (Gand, 1862).
>
> GFNA = Généalogies des familles nobles et anciennes des dix-sept
> provinces des Pays-Bas, 3 vols. [all published] (1781). See "Eycken"
>
> Maurice, Jean-Baptiste, Blason des armoiries de tous les chevaliers de
> l'Ordre de la Toison d'Or depuis la première institution jusques à
> present (1667).
>
> NGSW = Nederlandsch geslacht- stam- en wapen-boek, door Abraham
> Ferwerda en Jacobus Kok, 2 vols. [all published] (Amsterdam, 1785),
> unpaginated. See "Van Eycken."
>
> Paget, Gerald, The Lineage and Ancestry of H.R.H. Prince Charles,
> Prince of Wales, 2 vols. Edinburgh & London: Charles Skilton, 1977.
>
> Recueil généalogique de familles originaires des Pays-Bas ou y
> établies, 2 vols. (Rotterdam, 1775-1778). See "d'Eyck, Van Eyck ou
> Van der Eyken" (2:231-63).
>
> Steinman, G. Steinman, "Sepulchral Memorials of the English formerly at
> Bruges," Topographer and Genealogist 2 (1853): 468-93.
>
> Vegiano et al., Nobiliaire des Pays-Bas et du comté de Bourgogne, 4
> vols. (Gand, 1865-1868). See "de Jauche" (3:1108-13).
>
> >>> John Higgins <jhiggins...@yahoo.com> 23-Sep-12 12:05 AM >>>
> Maurice, Jean-Baptiste, Blason des armoiries de tous les chevaliers de
> l'Ordre de la Toison d'Or depuis la première institution jusques à
> present (1667).
>
> NGSW = Nederlandsch geslacht- stam- en wapen-boek, door Abraham
> Ferwerda en Jacobus Kok, 2 vols. [all published] (Amsterdam, 1785),
> unpaginated. See "Van Eycken."
>
> Paget, Gerald, The Lineage and Ancestry of H.R.H. Prince Charles,
> Prince of Wales, 2 vols. Edinburgh & London: Charles Skilton, 1977.
>
> Recueil généalogique de familles originaires des Pays-Bas ou y
> établies, 2 vols. (Rotterdam, 1775-1778). See "d'Eyck, Van Eyck ou
> Van der Eyken" (2:231-63).
>
> Steinman, G. Steinman, "Sepulchral Memorials of the English formerly at
> Bruges," Topographer and Genealogist 2 (1853): 468-93.
>
> Vegiano et al., Nobiliaire des Pays-Bas et du comté de Bourgogne, 4
> vols. (Gand, 1865-1868). See "de Jauche" (3:1108-13).
>
>
> On Sep 13, 2:33 am, "John Dobson" <j.dob...@uwinnipeg.ca> wrote:
>
> <snipped>
>
> These additions to the ancestry of Prince Charles which John Blythe
> Dobson has described above also highlight a perhaps surprising link -
> to the Preston family, who are the current Viscounts Gormanston in the
> Irish peerage, and probably to other Irish peers as well. The Preston
> connection is mentioned in the GFNA source cited by John in his post
> above (at 3:70), as well as in this pedigree in vol. 2 of "Topographer
> and Genealogist" here (and possibly also at the Internet Archive):http://books.google.com/books?id=EKhWAAAAIAAJ&pg=PA471#v=onepage&q&f=...
> On Sep 13, 2:33 am, "John Dobson" <j.dob...@uwinnipeg.ca> wrote:
>
> <snipped>
>
> These additions to the ancestry of Prince Charles which John Blythe
> Dobson has described above also highlight a perhaps surprising link -
> to the Preston family, who are the current Viscounts Gormanston in the
> Irish peerage, and probably to other Irish peers as well. The Preston
> connection is mentioned in the GFNA source cited by John in his post
> above (at 3:70), as well as in this pedigree in vol. 2 of "Topographer
>
> Paget numbers 2421 and 2422, Jan van der Eycken and Barbe van Offhuys
> are ancestral to the current Viscount Gormanston through the related
> Prestons who were Viscounts Taragh [or Tara].
>
> The T&G pedigree is cited in the CP account of the Viscounts Tara/
> Taragh, but the GFNA reference represents a correction (or addition)
> to CP, as it provides the given name (Claire) of the 1st Viscount Tara
> [or Taragh].
>
> -------------------------------
> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to
> GEN-MEDIEVAL-requ...@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without
> Paget numbers 2421 and 2422, Jan van der Eycken and Barbe van Offhuys
> are ancestral to the current Viscount Gormanston through the related
> Prestons who were Viscounts Taragh [or Tara].
>
> The T&G pedigree is cited in the CP account of the Viscounts Tara/
> Taragh, but the GFNA reference represents a correction (or addition)
> to CP, as it provides the given name (Claire) of the 1st Viscount Tara
> [or Taragh].
>
> -------------------------------
> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to
> the quotes in the subject and the body of the message
Thanks for this additional information - very interesting and useful!
As John points out above, I was wrong when I said that "Paget numbers
2421 and 2422, Jan van der Eycken and Barbe van Offhuys are ancestral
to the current Viscount Gormanston". Jan van der Eycken is indeed an
ancestor, but by his first wife Elisabeth Stoops, not the 2nd wife
Barbe van Offhuys. The GFNA source cited in this thread has it right,
but the T&G pedigree I mentioned got it wrong.
John Dobson
Nov 26, 2012, 1:28:40 AM11/26/12
to gen-me...@rootsweb.com
Dear group,
In an earlier message of 25 September 2012, too long to quote here (see
http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/read/GEN-MEDIEVAL/2012-09/1348568603),
I recounted some ancestry for Anne Jauche de Mastaing (d. 1615), wife of
Philippe-Charles van der Eycken, Seigneur de Saint-George, Riviere,
Jette, Ganshoorn, etc. Earlier, John Higgins had pointed out that she
was an ancestress of the Prestons, Viscounts Gormanston, and Bronwen
Edwards had mentioned that the Viscounts Gormanston were her own
ancestors.
I was surprised recently to discover that a early-sixteenth-century
manuscript in the Biblliothèque Nationale, Paris, catalogued under the
rather vague title of "Recueil d'épitaphes relevées dans différentes
églises de Flandres," and digitized at
http://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/btv1b9063170w/ , is in fact an armorial
commissioned by the family of Jauche de Mastaing. This is evident from
the contents, which most importantly for the present discussion include
on folios 5v, 20r, and 46v, three separate displays of the combined 16
heraldic quarters of Anne's paternal great-grandparents, Jacques de
Jauche (d. 1499), seigneur de Mastaing, St-Martin-Lierde, Hérimez,
Brugelette, etc., and Philippote de Lannoy, the readings on fo. 5v being
as follows:
1. Gonmignies [paternal ancestors of the Jauche family]
2. Trasegnie [Trazegnies]
3. Rochefort
4. Lichennaux [Linsmeau]
5. Mamnes [Masmines]
6. Rainsflet
7. Leureghe [Leeuwerghem]
8. Gistelle [Ghistelles]
9. Lanoy [Lannoy]
10. Mingoval
11. Molebay [Molembais]
12. Lille
13. Berlaimont
14. Barbechon [Barbançon]
15. Wagnoville [Wagnonville; the name of the seigneurie of the
Robersart family]
16. Henault [Hainaut]
Furthermore, the content of fo. 46v includes a nearly complete
five-generation ancestor table for their son Anthoine, Anne's
grand-uncle. The writing is small and crowded in places, and the
digitization rather grainy, so this transcription should not be regarded
as definitive. For clarity, I have added punctuation, including periods
after abbreviations, and underscores to indicate missing names; and I
have also added in square brackets the modern or at least more familiar
spellings of some of the placenames:
1. Messire Anthoine de Jauche, sr. de Mastaing, de Herimelz [Hérimez]
et Brugelettes
2. Messire Jacques de Jauche, sr. de Mastaing, de Herimelz et de
Brugelettes
3. Damme Philipote de Lannoy
4. Messire Andrieu de Jauche, sr. de Mastaing et de Sassignies
5. Damme Margte, heritiere de Masmines
6. Messire Baudewyn de Lannoy dit le Begge, sr. de Meulembecque
7. Dame Adrienne de Berlaimont, dame de Solvedecgem
8. Messire Jehan de Jauche, sr. de Mastaing et de Sassegnies
9. Damme Yzabeau de Rochefort, dame de Herymes [Hérimelz] et de
Brugelettes
10. Messire Robbert, sr. de Masmines
11. ____, Damme de Leuegge [Leeuwerghem]
12. Messire Gillebert de Lannoy, sr. de Sants [sic; possibly this
should be St. Aubin] et de Willemal [?]
13. Dame Katherine, heretiere de Molembaix [Molembais]
14. Messire Jacques de Berlaimont [Berlaymont], sr. de Solvedechem
15. Dame Katherine de Robbesart
16. [top of text lost in binding] Guillaume de Jauche, sr. de Mastaing
et de Sassignies
17. Dame Yzabeau de Traczegnies, fille de Otte
18. Messire Rasse de Rochefort, sr. de Brugelettes
19. Dame Agnes de Linchemeau [Linsmeau], fille de Arnoul et d'une fille
de Maipon [spelled Mapont in Jacques de Hemricourt, Miroir des Nobles de
Hasbaye, sect. 17]
20. ____ Masmines
21. ____ Riffelt [Rainsflet]
22. Robert, sr. de Leuerggem [Leeuwerghem]
23. Margte de Gisselle [Ghistelles]
24. Messire Hughes de Lannoy et del S. Lys
25. Dame Margte, heritiere de Migneval [Mingoval]
26. Messire Michiel, sr. de Molembaix [Molembais]
27. ____, dame de St. Aubain
28. Messire Gilles de Berlaimont [Berlaymont]
29. Dame Jehem [i.e. Jehanne] de Barbanchon [Barbançon], dame de
Ca...tau [illegible, but apparently referring to Soire-le-Château]
30. ____ Robersart
31. ____ Haym [Henault]
This table may be compared with the transcription of his parents'
tombstone, and the valuable discussion thereof, in H. J. Vanderspeeten,
"Souvenirs de la famille de Jauche-Mastaing conservé à Brugelette,"
Messager des Sciences Historiques; ou Archives des Arts et de la
Bibliographie de Belgique, 1884, pp. 369-405, at pp. 372-79, available
at http://books.google.ca/books?id=7mMFAAAAQAAJ. The table and the
tombstone are in good agreement, but each supplements the other in
points of detail.
The material from the Jauche family armorial largely supports, and
slightly extends, the ancestry shown for Anthoine de Jauche in
Genealogics
(http://www.genealogics.org/pedigree.php?personID=I00058992&tree=LEO&parentset=0&display=standard&generations=5).
Although no. 3 is there called Philippine de Lannoy, we think the form
Philippote, which is found amongst her descendants, may be preferable;
unfortunately her tombstone is not helpful on this point as it
abbreviates her name as "Phle." Also, no. 26 is there given as Gobert de
Molembais; I have not attempted to investigate this discrepancy.
In Genealogics, which traces a vast number of descendants of Anthoine
de Jauche, it can be seen that a great-great-grandmother, Margareta
[sometimes called Catharine] Tyncke, dite Maerschalk, was descended from
Philippe V, King of France.
John Blythe Dobson
In an earlier message of 25 September 2012, too long to quote here (see
http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/read/GEN-MEDIEVAL/2012-09/1348568603),
I recounted some ancestry for Anne Jauche de Mastaing (d. 1615), wife of
Philippe-Charles van der Eycken, Seigneur de Saint-George, Riviere,
Jette, Ganshoorn, etc. Earlier, John Higgins had pointed out that she
was an ancestress of the Prestons, Viscounts Gormanston, and Bronwen
Edwards had mentioned that the Viscounts Gormanston were her own
ancestors.
I was surprised recently to discover that a early-sixteenth-century
manuscript in the Biblliothèque Nationale, Paris, catalogued under the
rather vague title of "Recueil d'épitaphes relevées dans différentes
églises de Flandres," and digitized at
http://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/btv1b9063170w/ , is in fact an armorial
commissioned by the family of Jauche de Mastaing. This is evident from
the contents, which most importantly for the present discussion include
on folios 5v, 20r, and 46v, three separate displays of the combined 16
heraldic quarters of Anne's paternal great-grandparents, Jacques de
Jauche (d. 1499), seigneur de Mastaing, St-Martin-Lierde, Hérimez,
Brugelette, etc., and Philippote de Lannoy, the readings on fo. 5v being
as follows:
1. Gonmignies [paternal ancestors of the Jauche family]
2. Trasegnie [Trazegnies]
3. Rochefort
4. Lichennaux [Linsmeau]
5. Mamnes [Masmines]
6. Rainsflet
7. Leureghe [Leeuwerghem]
8. Gistelle [Ghistelles]
9. Lanoy [Lannoy]
10. Mingoval
11. Molebay [Molembais]
12. Lille
13. Berlaimont
14. Barbechon [Barbançon]
15. Wagnoville [Wagnonville; the name of the seigneurie of the
Robersart family]
16. Henault [Hainaut]
Furthermore, the content of fo. 46v includes a nearly complete
five-generation ancestor table for their son Anthoine, Anne's
grand-uncle. The writing is small and crowded in places, and the
digitization rather grainy, so this transcription should not be regarded
as definitive. For clarity, I have added punctuation, including periods
after abbreviations, and underscores to indicate missing names; and I
have also added in square brackets the modern or at least more familiar
spellings of some of the placenames:
1. Messire Anthoine de Jauche, sr. de Mastaing, de Herimelz [Hérimez]
et Brugelettes
2. Messire Jacques de Jauche, sr. de Mastaing, de Herimelz et de
Brugelettes
3. Damme Philipote de Lannoy
4. Messire Andrieu de Jauche, sr. de Mastaing et de Sassignies
5. Damme Margte, heritiere de Masmines
6. Messire Baudewyn de Lannoy dit le Begge, sr. de Meulembecque
7. Dame Adrienne de Berlaimont, dame de Solvedecgem
8. Messire Jehan de Jauche, sr. de Mastaing et de Sassegnies
9. Damme Yzabeau de Rochefort, dame de Herymes [Hérimelz] et de
Brugelettes
10. Messire Robbert, sr. de Masmines
11. ____, Damme de Leuegge [Leeuwerghem]
12. Messire Gillebert de Lannoy, sr. de Sants [sic; possibly this
should be St. Aubin] et de Willemal [?]
13. Dame Katherine, heretiere de Molembaix [Molembais]
14. Messire Jacques de Berlaimont [Berlaymont], sr. de Solvedechem
15. Dame Katherine de Robbesart
16. [top of text lost in binding] Guillaume de Jauche, sr. de Mastaing
et de Sassignies
17. Dame Yzabeau de Traczegnies, fille de Otte
18. Messire Rasse de Rochefort, sr. de Brugelettes
19. Dame Agnes de Linchemeau [Linsmeau], fille de Arnoul et d'une fille
de Maipon [spelled Mapont in Jacques de Hemricourt, Miroir des Nobles de
Hasbaye, sect. 17]
20. ____ Masmines
21. ____ Riffelt [Rainsflet]
22. Robert, sr. de Leuerggem [Leeuwerghem]
23. Margte de Gisselle [Ghistelles]
24. Messire Hughes de Lannoy et del S. Lys
25. Dame Margte, heritiere de Migneval [Mingoval]
26. Messire Michiel, sr. de Molembaix [Molembais]
27. ____, dame de St. Aubain
28. Messire Gilles de Berlaimont [Berlaymont]
29. Dame Jehem [i.e. Jehanne] de Barbanchon [Barbançon], dame de
Ca...tau [illegible, but apparently referring to Soire-le-Château]
30. ____ Robersart
31. ____ Haym [Henault]
This table may be compared with the transcription of his parents'
tombstone, and the valuable discussion thereof, in H. J. Vanderspeeten,
"Souvenirs de la famille de Jauche-Mastaing conservé à Brugelette,"
Messager des Sciences Historiques; ou Archives des Arts et de la
Bibliographie de Belgique, 1884, pp. 369-405, at pp. 372-79, available
at http://books.google.ca/books?id=7mMFAAAAQAAJ. The table and the
tombstone are in good agreement, but each supplements the other in
points of detail.
The material from the Jauche family armorial largely supports, and
slightly extends, the ancestry shown for Anthoine de Jauche in
Genealogics
(http://www.genealogics.org/pedigree.php?personID=I00058992&tree=LEO&parentset=0&display=standard&generations=5).
Although no. 3 is there called Philippine de Lannoy, we think the form
Philippote, which is found amongst her descendants, may be preferable;
unfortunately her tombstone is not helpful on this point as it
abbreviates her name as "Phle." Also, no. 26 is there given as Gobert de
Molembais; I have not attempted to investigate this discrepancy.
In Genealogics, which traces a vast number of descendants of Anthoine
de Jauche, it can be seen that a great-great-grandmother, Margareta
[sometimes called Catharine] Tyncke, dite Maerschalk, was descended from
Philippe V, King of France.
John Blythe Dobson
Olivier
Nov 26, 2012, 8:12:51 AM11/26/12
to gen-me...@rootsweb.com
Le lundi 26 novembre 2012 07:29:17 UTC+1, John Dobson a écrit :
> Dear group,
....
Jeanne Ière de Bourgogne ca 1291-1330
|
Marguerite Ière, comtesse de Bourgogne 1310-1382 &1320
Louis de Dampierre, comte de Nevers ca 1304-1346
|
Louis de Dampierre, comte de Rethel 1330-1384 &
Ne N
|
Béatrix bâtarde de Flandre de Dampierre &
Robert Tyncke, seigneur de Blaesvelt +1384/
|
Margareta Tyncke &
Walrave de Rasseghem, seigneur de Masmines
|
Robert de Rasseghem, seigneur de Masmines +1431 &
Isabelle, dame de Leeuwerghem
|
Marguerite de Rasseghem, dame de Masmines 1429 &
André de Jauche +1456
|
Jacques de Jauche, seigneur de Mastaing +1499/1500 &
Philippa de Lannoy 1437-1500
|
Antoine de Jauche, seigneur de Mastaing +1535
> Dear group,
....
>
> In Genealogics, which traces a vast number of descendants of Anthoine
>
> de Jauche, it can be seen that a great-great-grandmother, Margareta
>
> [sometimes called Catharine] Tyncke, dite Maerschalk, was descended from
>
> Philippe V, King of France.
>
>
>
> John Blythe Dobson
Philippe V, roi de France 1294-1322 &1307
> In Genealogics, which traces a vast number of descendants of Anthoine
>
> de Jauche, it can be seen that a great-great-grandmother, Margareta
>
> [sometimes called Catharine] Tyncke, dite Maerschalk, was descended from
>
> Philippe V, King of France.
>
>
>
> John Blythe Dobson
Jeanne Ière de Bourgogne ca 1291-1330
|
Marguerite Ière, comtesse de Bourgogne 1310-1382 &1320
Louis de Dampierre, comte de Nevers ca 1304-1346
|
Louis de Dampierre, comte de Rethel 1330-1384 &
Ne N
|
Béatrix bâtarde de Flandre de Dampierre &
Robert Tyncke, seigneur de Blaesvelt +1384/
|
Margareta Tyncke &
Walrave de Rasseghem, seigneur de Masmines
|
Robert de Rasseghem, seigneur de Masmines +1431 &
Isabelle, dame de Leeuwerghem
|
Marguerite de Rasseghem, dame de Masmines 1429 &
André de Jauche +1456
|
Jacques de Jauche, seigneur de Mastaing +1499/1500 &
Philippa de Lannoy 1437-1500
|
Antoine de Jauche, seigneur de Mastaing +1535
John Dobson
Nov 26, 2012, 12:47:35 PM11/26/12
to Olivier, gen-me...@rootsweb.com
Thanks, Olivier. Yes, that's the descent I meant. Not that I would have
any reason to doubt Leo's work here, but I've checked this line myself
from Béatrix down, and I'm pretty sure it's correct.
Best wishes,
John Blythe Dobson
>>> Olivier <OlivierG...@gmail.com> 26-Nov-12 7:12 AM >>>
any reason to doubt Leo's work here, but I've checked this line myself
from Béatrix down, and I'm pretty sure it's correct.
Best wishes,
John Blythe Dobson
Wjhonson
Nov 26, 2012, 12:52:19 PM11/26/12
to j.do...@uwinnipeg.ca, OlivierG...@gmail.com, gen-me...@rootsweb.com
Are there any interesting living descendants from this line?
Interesting in the way of authors, artists, celebrities of some sort?
-----Original Message-----
From: John Dobson <j.do...@uwinnipeg.ca>
To: Olivier <OlivierG...@gmail.com>
Interesting in the way of authors, artists, celebrities of some sort?
-----Original Message-----
From: John Dobson <j.do...@uwinnipeg.ca>
To: Olivier <OlivierG...@gmail.com>
Cc: gen-medieval <gen-me...@rootsweb.com>
Sent: Mon, Nov 26, 2012 9:47 am
Subject: Re: Jauche de Mastaing
Thanks, Olivier. Yes, that's the descent I meant. Not that I would have
any reason to doubt Leo's work here, but I've checked this line myself
from Béatrix down, and I'm pretty sure it's correct.
Sent: Mon, Nov 26, 2012 9:47 am
Subject: Re: Jauche de Mastaing
Thanks, Olivier. Yes, that's the descent I meant. Not that I would have
any reason to doubt Leo's work here, but I've checked this line myself
from Béatrix down, and I'm pretty sure it's correct.
Best wishes,
John Blythe Dobson
John Blythe Dobson
>>> Olivier <OlivierG...@gmail.com> 26-Nov-12 7:12 AM >>>
John Dobson
Nov 26, 2012, 6:38:18 PM11/26/12
to Wjhonson, OlivierG...@gmail.com, gen-me...@rootsweb.com
My original reason for looking at this line was the surprising Irish
connection -- not of this Antoine de Jauche but rather of a descendant
of his brother Adrien de Jauche -- noted at
http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/read/GEN-MEDIEVAL/2012-09/1348568603.
I'm not descended from this family myself, so have not really looked
into the existence of notable descendants.
Genealogics presently does not show any siblings of Antoine, but does
trace a number of descents from him to the upper nobility of Europe
(http://www.genealogics.org/descend.php?personID=I00058992&tree=LEO),
including the Belgian royal family, as follows:
1. Antoine de Jauche, Seigneur de Mastaing = Jossine van Vlaanderen,
Heiress of Drinckam
2. Jeanne de Jauche de Mastaing = George van Witthem, Seigneur
d'Arqennes
3. Johanna van Witthem, Vrouwe van Ruisbroek = Philippe, Seigneur de
Récourt, Baron de Licques
4. Jacqueline de Récourt-Licques = Jacques de Langlée, Baron d'Eine
5. Alexandrine de Langlée et de Wavrin = Charles de Lalaing, Comte de
Hoogstraeten
6. Albert François, Comte de Lalaing, Comte de Hoogstraeten = Marie
Claire, Comtesse de Bailleul
7. Comtesse Marie Gabriele de Lalaing, Comtesse de Hoogstraeten = Wild-
& Rheingraf Carl Florentin zu Salm
8. Wild- & Rheingraf Heinrich Gabriel zu Salm = Marie Thérèse de Croÿ,
Baronne du Fay
9. Philipp Joseph, 2. Fürst zu Salm-Kyrburg
10. Princess Amalie zu Salm-Kyrburg = Anton Alois , Fürst von
Hohenzollern-Sigmaringen
11. Karl Anton, Fürst von Hohenzollern-Sigmaringen = Antoinette Murat,
Imperial Princess of France
12. Karl Anton, Fürst von Hohenzollern = Josephine, Prinzessin von
Baden
13. Marie, Prinzessin von Hohenzollern-Sigmaringen = Philippe , Prince
of Belgium, Count of Flanders
14. Albert I, King of The Belgians 1909-1934
A report on the descendants of Antoine de Jauche can be generated at
http://roglo.eu/roglo?lang=en;m=D;i=4265800 . Selecting the maximum
number of generations produces around 480 pages of output. The material
in this database is of variable quality, and should be checked against
Genealogics.
If Leo van de Pas is following this thread, he could probably give a
better answer.
Best wishes,
John Blythe Dobson
>>> Wjhonson <wjho...@aol.com> 26-Nov-12 11:52 AM >>>
|
Béatrix bâtarde de Flandre de Dampierre &Robert Tyncke, seigneur de
Blaesvelt +1384/
|
Margareta Tyncke &Walrave de Rasseghem, seigneur de Masmines
|
Robert de Rasseghem, seigneur de Masmines +1431 &Isabelle, dame de
Leeuwerghem
|
Marguerite de Rasseghem, dame de Masmines 1429 &André de Jauche +1456
|
Jacques de Jauche, seigneur de Mastaing +1499/1500 &Philippa de Lannoy
connection -- not of this Antoine de Jauche but rather of a descendant
of his brother Adrien de Jauche -- noted at
http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/read/GEN-MEDIEVAL/2012-09/1348568603.
I'm not descended from this family myself, so have not really looked
into the existence of notable descendants.
Genealogics presently does not show any siblings of Antoine, but does
trace a number of descents from him to the upper nobility of Europe
(http://www.genealogics.org/descend.php?personID=I00058992&tree=LEO),
including the Belgian royal family, as follows:
1. Antoine de Jauche, Seigneur de Mastaing = Jossine van Vlaanderen,
Heiress of Drinckam
2. Jeanne de Jauche de Mastaing = George van Witthem, Seigneur
d'Arqennes
3. Johanna van Witthem, Vrouwe van Ruisbroek = Philippe, Seigneur de
Récourt, Baron de Licques
4. Jacqueline de Récourt-Licques = Jacques de Langlée, Baron d'Eine
5. Alexandrine de Langlée et de Wavrin = Charles de Lalaing, Comte de
Hoogstraeten
6. Albert François, Comte de Lalaing, Comte de Hoogstraeten = Marie
Claire, Comtesse de Bailleul
7. Comtesse Marie Gabriele de Lalaing, Comtesse de Hoogstraeten = Wild-
& Rheingraf Carl Florentin zu Salm
8. Wild- & Rheingraf Heinrich Gabriel zu Salm = Marie Thérèse de Croÿ,
Baronne du Fay
9. Philipp Joseph, 2. Fürst zu Salm-Kyrburg
10. Princess Amalie zu Salm-Kyrburg = Anton Alois , Fürst von
Hohenzollern-Sigmaringen
11. Karl Anton, Fürst von Hohenzollern-Sigmaringen = Antoinette Murat,
Imperial Princess of France
12. Karl Anton, Fürst von Hohenzollern = Josephine, Prinzessin von
Baden
13. Marie, Prinzessin von Hohenzollern-Sigmaringen = Philippe , Prince
of Belgium, Count of Flanders
14. Albert I, King of The Belgians 1909-1934
A report on the descendants of Antoine de Jauche can be generated at
http://roglo.eu/roglo?lang=en;m=D;i=4265800 . Selecting the maximum
number of generations produces around 480 pages of output. The material
in this database is of variable quality, and should be checked against
Genealogics.
If Leo van de Pas is following this thread, he could probably give a
better answer.
Best wishes,
John Blythe Dobson
Are there any interesting living descendants from this line?
Interesting in the way of authors, artists, celebrities of some sort?
-----Original Message-----
From: John Dobson <j.do...@uwinnipeg.ca>
To: Olivier <OlivierG...@gmail.com>
Cc: gen-medieval <gen-me...@rootsweb.com>
Sent: Mon, Nov 26, 2012 9:47 am
Subject: Re: Jauche de Mastaing
Thanks, Olivier. Yes, that's the descent I meant. Not that I would
have
any reason to doubt Leo's work here, but I've checked this line myself
from Béatrix down, and I'm pretty sure it's correct.
Interesting in the way of authors, artists, celebrities of some sort?
-----Original Message-----
From: John Dobson <j.do...@uwinnipeg.ca>
To: Olivier <OlivierG...@gmail.com>
Cc: gen-medieval <gen-me...@rootsweb.com>
Sent: Mon, Nov 26, 2012 9:47 am
Subject: Re: Jauche de Mastaing
Thanks, Olivier. Yes, that's the descent I meant. Not that I would
have
any reason to doubt Leo's work here, but I've checked this line myself
from Béatrix down, and I'm pretty sure it's correct.
Best wishes,
John Blythe Dobson
>>> Olivier <OlivierG...@gmail.com> 26-Nov-12 7:12 AM >>>Le lundi
John Blythe Dobson
26 novembre 2012 07:29:17 UTC+1, John Dobson a écrit :> Dear group,
....> > In Genealogics, which traces a vast number of descendants of
Anthoine> > de Jauche, it can be seen that a great-great-grandmother,
Margareta> > [sometimes called Catharine] Tyncke, dite Maerschalk, was
descended
from> > Philippe V, King of France.> > > > John Blythe Dobson
Philippe V, roi de France 1294-1322 &1307
Jeanne Ière de Bourgogne ca 1291-1330
|
Marguerite Ière, comtesse de Bourgogne 1310-1382 &1320
Louis de Dampierre, comte de Nevers ca 1304-1346
|
Louis de Dampierre, comte de Rethel 1330-1384 &Ne N
....> > In Genealogics, which traces a vast number of descendants of
Anthoine> > de Jauche, it can be seen that a great-great-grandmother,
Margareta> > [sometimes called Catharine] Tyncke, dite Maerschalk, was
descended
from> > Philippe V, King of France.> > > > John Blythe Dobson
Philippe V, roi de France 1294-1322 &1307
Jeanne Ière de Bourgogne ca 1291-1330
|
Marguerite Ière, comtesse de Bourgogne 1310-1382 &1320
Louis de Dampierre, comte de Nevers ca 1304-1346
|
|
Béatrix bâtarde de Flandre de Dampierre &Robert Tyncke, seigneur de
Blaesvelt +1384/
|
Margareta Tyncke &Walrave de Rasseghem, seigneur de Masmines
|
Robert de Rasseghem, seigneur de Masmines +1431 &Isabelle, dame de
Leeuwerghem
|
Marguerite de Rasseghem, dame de Masmines 1429 &André de Jauche +1456
|
Jacques de Jauche, seigneur de Mastaing +1499/1500 &Philippa de Lannoy
1437-1500
|
Antoine de Jauche, seigneur de Mastaing +1535
|
Antoine de Jauche, seigneur de Mastaing +1535
-------------------------------
To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email
toGEN-MEDIE...@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without
To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email
Leo
Nov 28, 2012, 4:10:26 AM11/28/12
to John Dobson, gen-me...@rootsweb.com
In John Dobson's message he attached an e-mail which contains an ancestor
list and in this list is mentioned Jeanne van der Spoet, daughter of Bernard
van der Spoet. This Jeanne is an ancestor of Claire van der Eycken for whom
I have now a fair number of living descendants but none worth mentioning.
However I was sure that Jeanne van der Spoet is the same as Johanna van der
Spout. And as I had a Bernard van der Spout married to a Isabelle/Elisabeth
d'Arquennes, I wondered were they her parents.
I contacted José Verheecke with the question and his reply revealed a lot
more.
This Johanna van der Spout, indeed the daughter of the before mentioned
couple, is also a descendant of King Edward I of England. So what if the
line leads to uninteresting people?
But Johanna has a sister who is an ancestor of Prince William, as well as of
Queen Elizabeth II, Albert II of MOnaco, Boris Johnson, Crown Princess
Victoria of Sweden, King Harald V of Norway, Brooke Shields and many more.
And so thanks to José yet another link is made to Edward I.
With best wishes
list and in this list is mentioned Jeanne van der Spoet, daughter of Bernard
van der Spoet. This Jeanne is an ancestor of Claire van der Eycken for whom
I have now a fair number of living descendants but none worth mentioning.
However I was sure that Jeanne van der Spoet is the same as Johanna van der
Spout. And as I had a Bernard van der Spout married to a Isabelle/Elisabeth
d'Arquennes, I wondered were they her parents.
I contacted José Verheecke with the question and his reply revealed a lot
more.
This Johanna van der Spout, indeed the daughter of the before mentioned
couple, is also a descendant of King Edward I of England. So what if the
line leads to uninteresting people?
But Johanna has a sister who is an ancestor of Prince William, as well as of
Queen Elizabeth II, Albert II of MOnaco, Boris Johnson, Crown Princess
Victoria of Sweden, King Harald V of Norway, Brooke Shields and many more.
And so thanks to José yet another link is made to Edward I.
With best wishes
Leo van de Pas
Canberra, Australia
Canberra, Australia
> In Genealogics, which traces a vast number of descendants of Anthoine
> de Jauche, it can be seen that a great-great-grandmother, Margareta
> [sometimes called Catharine] Tyncke, dite Maerschalk, was descended from
> Philippe V, King of France.
>
> John Blythe Dobson
>
>
> de Jauche, it can be seen that a great-great-grandmother, Margareta
> [sometimes called Catharine] Tyncke, dite Maerschalk, was descended from
> Philippe V, King of France.
>
> John Blythe Dobson
>
>
Olivier
Nov 28, 2012, 8:03:58 AM11/28/12
to John Dobson, gen-me...@rootsweb.com, Leo
Le mercredi 28 novembre 2012 10:10:26 UTC+1, Leo a écrit :
> In John Dobson's message he attached an e-mail which contains an ancestor
>
> list and in this list is mentioned Jeanne van der Spoet, daughter of Bernard
>
> van der Spoet. This Jeanne is an ancestor of Claire van der Eycken for whom
>
> I have now a fair number of living descendants but none worth mentioning.
>
>
>
> However I was sure that Jeanne van der Spoet is the same as Johanna van der
>
> Spout. And as I had a Bernard van der Spout married to a Isabelle/Elisabeth
>
> d'Arquennes, I wondered were they her parents.
>
>
>
> I contacted José Verheecke with the question and his reply revealed a lot
>
> more.
>
> This Johanna van der Spout, indeed the daughter of the before mentioned
>
> couple, is also a descendant of King Edward I of England. So what if the
>
> line leads to uninteresting people?
>
>
>
> But Johanna has a sister who is an ancestor of Prince William, as well as of
>
> Queen Elizabeth II, Albert II of MOnaco, Boris Johnson, Crown Princess
>
> Victoria of Sweden, King Harald V of Norway, Brooke Shields and many more.
>
> And so thanks to José yet another link is made to Edward I.
>
>
>
> With best wishes
>
> Leo van de Pas
>
> Canberra, Australia
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>
The link :
> In John Dobson's message he attached an e-mail which contains an ancestor
>
> list and in this list is mentioned Jeanne van der Spoet, daughter of Bernard
>
> van der Spoet. This Jeanne is an ancestor of Claire van der Eycken for whom
>
> I have now a fair number of living descendants but none worth mentioning.
>
>
>
> However I was sure that Jeanne van der Spoet is the same as Johanna van der
>
> Spout. And as I had a Bernard van der Spout married to a Isabelle/Elisabeth
>
> d'Arquennes, I wondered were they her parents.
>
>
>
> I contacted José Verheecke with the question and his reply revealed a lot
>
> more.
>
> This Johanna van der Spout, indeed the daughter of the before mentioned
>
> couple, is also a descendant of King Edward I of England. So what if the
>
> line leads to uninteresting people?
>
>
>
> But Johanna has a sister who is an ancestor of Prince William, as well as of
>
> Queen Elizabeth II, Albert II of MOnaco, Boris Johnson, Crown Princess
>
> Victoria of Sweden, King Harald V of Norway, Brooke Shields and many more.
>
> And so thanks to José yet another link is made to Edward I.
>
>
>
> With best wishes
>
> Leo van de Pas
>
> Canberra, Australia
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>
Edward I Longshanks, King of England 1239-1307 &1254
Eleanor de Castilla 1241-1290
|
Margaret of England 1275-1333/ &1290
Jean, duc de Brabant 1275-1312
|
Jean, duc de Brabant 1300-1355 &
Ne van der Hulpen
|
Marguerite van der Hulpen &
Bernard van der Spout
|
Bernard van der Spout +/1431 &
Marie de Coninck ca 1380-1437/
|
Bernard van der Spout &
Elisabeth van Arquennes
|
Johanna van der Spout
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