Camville of Clifton Campville, Staffordshire

Henry Sutliff

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Apr 26, 1999, 3:00:00 AM4/26/99

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CP III:3-5 (note d on p. 3) shows that Geoffrey de Camville (d. bef 21
Sep 1308) was son of William de Canville/Camville and his wife Lucy.
William was 2nd son of Geoffrey de Canville of Clifton (dead 1219) by
his second wife Leuca, granddaughter of William de Braiose. Geoffrey was
son and heir of William de Canville, by Aubereé (living 1233), da. and
h. of Geoffrey de Marmion of Clifton and Arrow, Warwickshire.

Questions:

(1) Who were the parents of Leuca and which William de Braose was she
granddaughter of?

(2) Where does Geoffrey de Marmion fit into the Marmion family?

Thanks for the help.

Henry Sutliff

Reedpcgen

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Apr 27, 1999, 3:00:00 AM4/27/99

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>
>(2) Where does Geoffrey de Marmion fit into the Marmion family?
>

Not that it's authoritative by any means, but the Wallop Family shows Aubrey
["Albreda"], wife of William de Camvill as daughter of Geoffrey Marmion
(brother of Robert Marmion of Tamworth, who d. 1143), son of Roger Marmion of
Tamworth Castle (d. ca. 1130), son of Robert Marmion, S. de
Fontenay[-le-Marmion, Calvados], Normandy, and of Tamworth, Warwick, and
Scrivelsby, Lincoln, by "Hadeguisa" [Hawise] who in her widowhood was a nun at
Caen in 1101.

CP 8:505-8 shows Geoffrey "of Llanstephan" as son of the said Roger, possibly
by a daughter of Urse d'Abetot, but then shows it is possible Roger (d. 1130)
was son of Robert Marmion (d. c. 1106) by his wife Hawise.

The Robert Marmion who died in 1143-4 married Milicent, who after his death
married Richard de Canville/Camville.

CP 8:508, note h, states, "On chronological grounds she [Aubreye] may not have
been the da. of the Geoffrey Marmion mentioned in the text above, but was
doubtless his descendant."

pcr

Richard Borthwick

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Apr 27, 1999, 3:00:00 AM4/27/99

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At 04:08 PM 27/04/99 +0800, you wrote:
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R A Griffiths "the Cartulary and Muniments of the Fort Family of
Llanstephan" which appears as ch.14 in his *Conquerors and Conquered in
Medieval Wales* (Stroud & New York, 1994) pp.193-253 has a section on the
lordship of Llanstephan and the Marmion and Camville families. The picture
is much as Paul has shown it (p.199). Below is the chart given on p.199.

I don't know Griffiths' source for the affiliation of Leucu to the Lord
Rhys. If she was indeed the granddaughter of William de Braose it would
suggest that her mother was a dau. of a William de Braose.

Alan B. Wilson

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Apr 28, 1999, 3:00:00 AM4/28/99

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In article <3.0.1.32.1999042...@cyllene.uwa.edu.au>,
rg...@cyllene.uwa.edu.au (Richard Borthwick) wrote:

[snip]

Griffiths does not show a relationship between Richard de Camville
(d. 1191) and William de Canville (d. by 1214). Could Burke, "Dormant,
Abeyant, . . .", p. 100, be right (this time) that Richard and William are
brothers?

--
Alan B. Wilson
abwi...@uclink4.berkeley.edu