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C.P. Addition: Ralph de Gorges, 2nd Lord Gorges, died c.1342
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Douglas Richardson
Jun 4, 2016, 8:18:21 PM6/4/16
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Dear Newsgroup ~
Complete Peerage 6 (1926): 12 (sub Gorges) includes an account of the life of Ralph de Gorges, 2nd Lord Gorges. Regarding his marriage and death, the following information is provided:
"Ralph (de Gorges), Lord Gorges, only son and heir, was born in 1308 ... He married, in or before 1330, Elizabeth ... In 1334 he was a party to an agreement concerning the marriage of his sister Joan. He died without issue before 28 August 1344. His widow was living in 1356/7." END OF QUOTE.
As to the source cited for the statement that Ralph de Gorges died before 28 August 1344, the following information is given in footnote i on page 12:
"When there is mention of Elizabeth late the wife of Ralph de Gorges (Close Roll)."
Recently I located a Common Pleas lawsuit which proves that Ralph de Gorges died sometime before Easter term 1342, on which date Elizabeth, widow of Ralph de Gorges, sued John de Upheye in the Court of Common Pleas in a Somerset plea regarding a reasonable account of the time he was her receiver of money. Reference: Court of Common Pleas, CP40/330, image 118f (available at http://aalt.law.uh.edu/AALT1/E3/CP40no330/aCP40no330fronts/IMG_0118.htm).
While Ralph de Gorges left no issue, his sisters, Eleanor (de Gorges) Russell and Joan (de Gorges) Cheyne have modern descendants.
The following is a list of the 17th Century New World immigrants that descend from Eleanor (de Gorges) Russell:
Barbara Aubrey, Frances, Jane & Katherine Deighton, Edward Foliot, Muriel Gurdon, Thomas Ligon.
The following is a list of the 17th Century New World immigrants that descend from Joan (de Gorges) Cheyne:
Elizabeth Bosvile, George, Giles & Robert Brent.
Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah
Complete Peerage 6 (1926): 12 (sub Gorges) includes an account of the life of Ralph de Gorges, 2nd Lord Gorges. Regarding his marriage and death, the following information is provided:
"Ralph (de Gorges), Lord Gorges, only son and heir, was born in 1308 ... He married, in or before 1330, Elizabeth ... In 1334 he was a party to an agreement concerning the marriage of his sister Joan. He died without issue before 28 August 1344. His widow was living in 1356/7." END OF QUOTE.
As to the source cited for the statement that Ralph de Gorges died before 28 August 1344, the following information is given in footnote i on page 12:
"When there is mention of Elizabeth late the wife of Ralph de Gorges (Close Roll)."
Recently I located a Common Pleas lawsuit which proves that Ralph de Gorges died sometime before Easter term 1342, on which date Elizabeth, widow of Ralph de Gorges, sued John de Upheye in the Court of Common Pleas in a Somerset plea regarding a reasonable account of the time he was her receiver of money. Reference: Court of Common Pleas, CP40/330, image 118f (available at http://aalt.law.uh.edu/AALT1/E3/CP40no330/aCP40no330fronts/IMG_0118.htm).
While Ralph de Gorges left no issue, his sisters, Eleanor (de Gorges) Russell and Joan (de Gorges) Cheyne have modern descendants.
The following is a list of the 17th Century New World immigrants that descend from Eleanor (de Gorges) Russell:
Barbara Aubrey, Frances, Jane & Katherine Deighton, Edward Foliot, Muriel Gurdon, Thomas Ligon.
The following is a list of the 17th Century New World immigrants that descend from Joan (de Gorges) Cheyne:
Elizabeth Bosvile, George, Giles & Robert Brent.
Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah
Douglas Richardson
Jun 4, 2016, 11:16:38 PM6/4/16
to
Dear Newsgroup ~
In my previous post, I reported that Complete Peerage, 6 (1926): 12 (sub Gorges) stated that Elizabeth, widow of Ralph de Gorges [the younger], 2nd Lord Gorges, was "living in 1356/7."
This was a typo on my part. Actually Complete Peerage states Elizabeth, widow of Ralph de Gorges, was living in 1346/7, not 1356/7. Complete Peerage's source for this statement is VCH Hampshire 5 (1912): 183.
The VCH Hampshire reference in question is a discussion of the history of the Gorges family manor of Knighton (in Newchurch), Hampshire. It may be read at the following weblink:
http://www.british-history.ac.uk/vch/hants/vol5/pp177-187
VCH Hampshire says the following:
"The manor [of Knighton] seems to have reverted to Ralph de Gorges before 1316. Ralph (afterwards Sir Ralph) and his wife Eleanor had one son Ralph, who died without issue, evidently before 1330–1, when Sir Ralph settled the manor in tail-male on two younger sons of his daughter Eleanor, who had married Theobald Russell of Yaverland. William, the elder of the two, died without issue and the manor was delivered to his brother Theobald Russell in 1343. He appears thereupon to have assumed the name de Gorges, and as Theobald de Gorges was sued in 1346–7 by Elizabeth widow of Ralph de Gorges the younger for the manor. Judgement was given in Elizabeth's favour, but as she had no issue by Ralph the manor reverted to Theobald, who was in possession in 1362." END OF QUOTE.
Several errors are made in the VCH Hampshire account. First, the author states that Ralph de Gorges junior "evidently" died "before 1330-1." This is wrong. My research indicates the younger Ralph de Gorges [husband of Elizabeth] and Walter Waleys, parson of Horsington, Somerset, acknowledged in 1334 that they owed William de Cheygne [Cheyne] a debt of 920 marks; to be levied in default of payment, of their lands and chattels in co. Somerset. [Reference: Cal. Close Rolls, 1333–1337 (1898): 331]. The same year the younger Ralph de Gorges was a party to the marriage settlement of his sister, Joan [Reference: Cal. Close Rolls, 1333–1337 (1898): 332]. As I showed in my last post, the younger Ralph de Gorges died before Easter term 1342.
The next error in the VCH account is the statement that it was the senior Ralph de Gorges (husband of Eleanor) who in 1330-1 settled the manor of Knighton, Hampshire in tail-male on two younger sons of his daughter Eleanor, who had married Theobald Russell of Yaverland.
A full abstract of this fine is found on Chris Phillips' great website, Some Notes on Medieval English Genealogy [see copy below]. The fine is dated 6 October 1330, not 1330-1 as stated by VCH Hampshire. The fine settled the manor of Knighton, Hampshire on the younger Ralph de Gorges and his male heirs, and, in default of such iasue, the manor was to revert in succession to Ralph's nephews, William, Thebaud, John, and Richard Russell, and their respective male hairs. Elizabeth, wife of the younger Ralph de Gorges, put in her claim.
Sir Ralph de Gorges, Senior (husband of Eleanor) was in no way connected with this fine as he died back in 1323. His widow, Eleanor, married (2nd) before 1326 John Pecche, Knt., Lord Pecche. Eleanor and John Pecche are specifically named in the 1330 fine.
Finally VCH Hampshire states that there was a lawsuit in 1346–7, by Elizabeth, widow of Ralph de Gorges, junior, against her late husband's nephew, Thebaud Russell, who adopted the Gorges surname.
The lawsuit in question is actually dated Hilary term 1346 and is found in the Common Pleas. It confirms that Elizabeth, widow of Ralph de Gorges, junior sued Thebaud de Gorges in the Court of Common Pleas regarding the manor of Knighton, Hampshire [Reference: Court of Common Pleas, CP40/345, image 112f (available at http://aalt.law.uh.edu/E3/CP40no345/aCP40no345fronts/IMG_0112.htm)].
This lawsuit corrects Complete Peerage's statement that Elizabeth, widow of Ralph de Gorges, the younger, was living in 1346/7. The lawsuit proves that she was actually living in Hilary term 1346.
Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah
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Source: http://www.medievalgenealogy.org.uk/fines/abstracts/CP_25_1_286_36.shtml#66
Reference: CP 25/1/286/36, number 66.
Counties: Devon. Hampshire. Dorset. Lincolnshire.
Place: Westminster.
Date: One week from St Michael, 4 Edward III [6 October 1330].
Parties: Walter Waleys, querent, and Ralph de Gorges, deforciant.
Property: 3 messuages, 2 carucates of land and 100 shillings of rent in Braunton' by Barnestaple in the county of Devon and the manor of Knyghtteton' and 4 messuages in Shaldeflete and the advowsons of the church of the vill of Shaldeflete and the chapel of the aforesaid manor in the county of Southampton and the manors of Lutton' and Bradepol and the hundreds of la Redehone and Bemestre and 4 messuages, 3 carucates of land and 10 pounds of rent in Sturministr', Combe, Kentecombe and Brideport and the advowsons of the churches of the manor of Lutton' and the vill of Brideport and the vicarage of the vill of Sturministr' in the county of Dorset and the manor of Totele and the advowson of the church of the same manor in the county of Lincoln.
Action: Plea of covenant.
Agreement: Ralph has acknowledged the manors, hundreds, tenements and advowsons to be the right of Walter, of which Walter has 2 parts of 3 messuages, of 2 carucates of land and of 100 shillings of rent in the vill of Braunton' and 2 parts of the manor of Knyghtteton' and the advowson of the chapel of the manor of Knyghtteton' of his gift.
For this: Walter has granted to Ralph the same 2 parts and advowson and has rendered them to him in the court, to hold to Ralph and the male heirs of his body, of the chief lords for ever. And besides Walter granted for himself and his heirs that the third part of 3 messuages, of 2 carucates of land and of 100 shillings of rent in the vill of Braunton' and the third part of the manor of Knyghtteton' - which John Pecche and Eleanor, his wife, held in dower of Eleanor - and also that the manors of Lutton', Bradepol and Totele and the hundreds and all the other tenements and advowsons - which the aforesaid John and Eleanor held for the life of Eleanor - of the inheritance of Walter in the aforesaid vills on the day the agreement was made, and which after the decease of Eleanor ought to revert to Walter and his heirs - after the decease of Eleanor shall remain to Ralph and his aforesaid heirs, to hold together with the aforesaid 2 parts and advowson of the chief lords for ever. In default of such heirs, successive remainders (1) to William, son of Theobald Russel, and the male heirs of his body, (2) to Theobald, brother of the same William, and the male heirs of his body, (3) to John, brother of the same Theobald, and the male heirs of his body, (4) to Richard, brother of the same John, and the male heirs of his body and (5) to the right heirs of Ralph.
Note: [Endorsed: Elizabeth, the wife of Ralph de Gorges, puts in her claim.]
Standardised forms of names. (These are tentative suggestions, intended only as a finding aid.)
Persons: Walter Wales, Ralph de Gorges, John Pecche, Eleanor Pecche, Theobald Russell, William Russell, John Russell, Richard Russell, Elizabeth de Gorges
Places: Braunton, Barnstaple, Knighton (in Newchurch), Shalfleet, Litton Cheney, Bradpole, Redhone, Beaminster, Sturminster, Combe (in Rampisham), Kingcombe (in Toller Porcorum), Bridport, Tothill
In my previous post, I reported that Complete Peerage, 6 (1926): 12 (sub Gorges) stated that Elizabeth, widow of Ralph de Gorges [the younger], 2nd Lord Gorges, was "living in 1356/7."
This was a typo on my part. Actually Complete Peerage states Elizabeth, widow of Ralph de Gorges, was living in 1346/7, not 1356/7. Complete Peerage's source for this statement is VCH Hampshire 5 (1912): 183.
The VCH Hampshire reference in question is a discussion of the history of the Gorges family manor of Knighton (in Newchurch), Hampshire. It may be read at the following weblink:
http://www.british-history.ac.uk/vch/hants/vol5/pp177-187
VCH Hampshire says the following:
"The manor [of Knighton] seems to have reverted to Ralph de Gorges before 1316. Ralph (afterwards Sir Ralph) and his wife Eleanor had one son Ralph, who died without issue, evidently before 1330–1, when Sir Ralph settled the manor in tail-male on two younger sons of his daughter Eleanor, who had married Theobald Russell of Yaverland. William, the elder of the two, died without issue and the manor was delivered to his brother Theobald Russell in 1343. He appears thereupon to have assumed the name de Gorges, and as Theobald de Gorges was sued in 1346–7 by Elizabeth widow of Ralph de Gorges the younger for the manor. Judgement was given in Elizabeth's favour, but as she had no issue by Ralph the manor reverted to Theobald, who was in possession in 1362." END OF QUOTE.
Several errors are made in the VCH Hampshire account. First, the author states that Ralph de Gorges junior "evidently" died "before 1330-1." This is wrong. My research indicates the younger Ralph de Gorges [husband of Elizabeth] and Walter Waleys, parson of Horsington, Somerset, acknowledged in 1334 that they owed William de Cheygne [Cheyne] a debt of 920 marks; to be levied in default of payment, of their lands and chattels in co. Somerset. [Reference: Cal. Close Rolls, 1333–1337 (1898): 331]. The same year the younger Ralph de Gorges was a party to the marriage settlement of his sister, Joan [Reference: Cal. Close Rolls, 1333–1337 (1898): 332]. As I showed in my last post, the younger Ralph de Gorges died before Easter term 1342.
The next error in the VCH account is the statement that it was the senior Ralph de Gorges (husband of Eleanor) who in 1330-1 settled the manor of Knighton, Hampshire in tail-male on two younger sons of his daughter Eleanor, who had married Theobald Russell of Yaverland.
A full abstract of this fine is found on Chris Phillips' great website, Some Notes on Medieval English Genealogy [see copy below]. The fine is dated 6 October 1330, not 1330-1 as stated by VCH Hampshire. The fine settled the manor of Knighton, Hampshire on the younger Ralph de Gorges and his male heirs, and, in default of such iasue, the manor was to revert in succession to Ralph's nephews, William, Thebaud, John, and Richard Russell, and their respective male hairs. Elizabeth, wife of the younger Ralph de Gorges, put in her claim.
Sir Ralph de Gorges, Senior (husband of Eleanor) was in no way connected with this fine as he died back in 1323. His widow, Eleanor, married (2nd) before 1326 John Pecche, Knt., Lord Pecche. Eleanor and John Pecche are specifically named in the 1330 fine.
Finally VCH Hampshire states that there was a lawsuit in 1346–7, by Elizabeth, widow of Ralph de Gorges, junior, against her late husband's nephew, Thebaud Russell, who adopted the Gorges surname.
The lawsuit in question is actually dated Hilary term 1346 and is found in the Common Pleas. It confirms that Elizabeth, widow of Ralph de Gorges, junior sued Thebaud de Gorges in the Court of Common Pleas regarding the manor of Knighton, Hampshire [Reference: Court of Common Pleas, CP40/345, image 112f (available at http://aalt.law.uh.edu/E3/CP40no345/aCP40no345fronts/IMG_0112.htm)].
This lawsuit corrects Complete Peerage's statement that Elizabeth, widow of Ralph de Gorges, the younger, was living in 1346/7. The lawsuit proves that she was actually living in Hilary term 1346.
Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah
Source: http://www.medievalgenealogy.org.uk/fines/abstracts/CP_25_1_286_36.shtml#66
Reference: CP 25/1/286/36, number 66.
Counties: Devon. Hampshire. Dorset. Lincolnshire.
Place: Westminster.
Date: One week from St Michael, 4 Edward III [6 October 1330].
Parties: Walter Waleys, querent, and Ralph de Gorges, deforciant.
Property: 3 messuages, 2 carucates of land and 100 shillings of rent in Braunton' by Barnestaple in the county of Devon and the manor of Knyghtteton' and 4 messuages in Shaldeflete and the advowsons of the church of the vill of Shaldeflete and the chapel of the aforesaid manor in the county of Southampton and the manors of Lutton' and Bradepol and the hundreds of la Redehone and Bemestre and 4 messuages, 3 carucates of land and 10 pounds of rent in Sturministr', Combe, Kentecombe and Brideport and the advowsons of the churches of the manor of Lutton' and the vill of Brideport and the vicarage of the vill of Sturministr' in the county of Dorset and the manor of Totele and the advowson of the church of the same manor in the county of Lincoln.
Action: Plea of covenant.
Agreement: Ralph has acknowledged the manors, hundreds, tenements and advowsons to be the right of Walter, of which Walter has 2 parts of 3 messuages, of 2 carucates of land and of 100 shillings of rent in the vill of Braunton' and 2 parts of the manor of Knyghtteton' and the advowson of the chapel of the manor of Knyghtteton' of his gift.
For this: Walter has granted to Ralph the same 2 parts and advowson and has rendered them to him in the court, to hold to Ralph and the male heirs of his body, of the chief lords for ever. And besides Walter granted for himself and his heirs that the third part of 3 messuages, of 2 carucates of land and of 100 shillings of rent in the vill of Braunton' and the third part of the manor of Knyghtteton' - which John Pecche and Eleanor, his wife, held in dower of Eleanor - and also that the manors of Lutton', Bradepol and Totele and the hundreds and all the other tenements and advowsons - which the aforesaid John and Eleanor held for the life of Eleanor - of the inheritance of Walter in the aforesaid vills on the day the agreement was made, and which after the decease of Eleanor ought to revert to Walter and his heirs - after the decease of Eleanor shall remain to Ralph and his aforesaid heirs, to hold together with the aforesaid 2 parts and advowson of the chief lords for ever. In default of such heirs, successive remainders (1) to William, son of Theobald Russel, and the male heirs of his body, (2) to Theobald, brother of the same William, and the male heirs of his body, (3) to John, brother of the same Theobald, and the male heirs of his body, (4) to Richard, brother of the same John, and the male heirs of his body and (5) to the right heirs of Ralph.
Note: [Endorsed: Elizabeth, the wife of Ralph de Gorges, puts in her claim.]
Standardised forms of names. (These are tentative suggestions, intended only as a finding aid.)
Persons: Walter Wales, Ralph de Gorges, John Pecche, Eleanor Pecche, Theobald Russell, William Russell, John Russell, Richard Russell, Elizabeth de Gorges
Places: Braunton, Barnstaple, Knighton (in Newchurch), Shalfleet, Litton Cheney, Bradpole, Redhone, Beaminster, Sturminster, Combe (in Rampisham), Kingcombe (in Toller Porcorum), Bridport, Tothill
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