Sir Edward Keith of Syntoun
wjhonson
married Christian Menteith died in 1340.
This same work I'm consulting
"Keith: Sintoun, Inverugy, Ludquhon, Ravinscraig", by Donald M
Mackintosh, FSA Scot. 1998. McCormick, SC
addresses itself, albeitly perhaps with errors to the issue of the
death date, or rather lack of when it states on page 4 that:
"On 21 May 1343 Sir John de Menteith, the younger, Lord of Arane,
Scipinche and Knapdale granted to Edward de Keth, knt., the son
(filio) and Christian his spouse the grantor's sister, the lands of
Lodcarne and Perthok in the Earldom of Buchin."
Showing that *this* Edward was alive on 21 May 1343
Will Johnson
WJhonson
Subj: Re: SP Correction: Sir William Douglas and his Lindsay wife [II of II]
Date: 5/13/06
John Ravilous in discussing the Patrick, Lord Graham and his wife Christian Erskine gives their children but without dates for all but the son William who he states died in 1472.
Here is another document which dates Patrick and Christian's daughter Janet
"Keith: Sintoun, Inverugy, Ludquhon, Ravinscraig", by Donald M Mackintosh, FSA Scot. 1998. McCormick, SC
page 13 "An obligation was made at Edinburgh on 16 June 1455 in which Patrick, Lord Graham promised to pay to his 'well belovit Gilbert of Keith of Inrugy in seven hundreth merks of usuall money of Scotland for band of mariage treatit betuixt the said Gilbert and Janet my dochter.' His cautioners were stated as being Sir Wm., Earl of Erroll and Sir Patrick Lyoun, Lord Glammis." (citing Ant A & B, II, 401)
Will Johnson
WJhonson
http://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00211596&tree=LEO
we see that Burke's Peerage 1938 has assigned as the father of that
Mary Keith who married William Sinclair, 2nd earl of Caithness
as one Sir William Keith
No date is there given for the marriage. I now present it.
"Keith: Sintoun, Inverugy, Ludquhon, Ravinscraig", by Donald M Mackintosh, FSA Scot. 1998. McCormick, SC
page 14 "An indenture was made 14 Jul 1477 between Sir Gilbert, William Earl of Caithness and William Sinclair his son concerning the marriage of William Sinclair and Mary Keith, with 800 merks of tocher." (citing GD 54/1/22)
Will Johnson
John P. Ravilious
Among the assorted problems with the 'traditional' Keith
pedigree, there were two Edwards de Keith. The elder (#1 in the
following pedigree) was the younger son of Sir William de Keith, and
brother to Sir Robert de Keith who d. at Durham in 1346. He d. in
1340 (there was an inquisition in 1341). When his brother Robert d.
in battle, he was succeeded as Marischal of Scotland (either
immediately, or eventually) by William de Keith, his nephew (see 1.2
below). Sir Edward de Keith, husband of Christian de Menteith, has
long been conflated with his father, to the eternal consternation of
all concerned (at least since ca. 1400).
Particular attention should be paid to Joseph Bain, The Edwards
in Scotland, p. 45, where he noted that Sir Edward de Keith and
Isabella de Synton were married before July 1305 - Edward de Keith
being then on the favoured (English) side of the troubles. Clearly
this is not the same Edward de Keith whose marriage to Christian de
Menteith occurs a bit later, as you mentioned. Another reference to
the same, from John Riddell, Esq., p. 150 (citing the Mar Charter
Chest):
' Charter by Sir John Menteith, Lord of Arran, to Sir Edward Keith
and Christian his spouse, sister to the said Sir John, of lands in
Aberdeenshire, in the year 1343. '
The citation you presented concerning the same, referring to the
husband as "Edward de Keth, knt., the son (filio)", makes it quite
clear he was not the same individual, but the son of the earlier
Edward.
Cheers,
John
============================================
1 Sir Edward de Keith
----------------------------------------
Death: 1340
Father: Sir William de Keith (-<1293)
Mother: NN
of Sinton (de jure uxoris)
Re: Edward I's 1303/04 campaign in Scotland, Bain wrote,
' Edward probably thought his last campaign had settled Scotland,
and was in good hope of securing the indomitable Wallace, by
encouraging his countryman Edward Keith, by the bribe of the
heiress of Synton (as seems probable, for the Erskines long held
it as their successors by another marriage) to undertake the
pursuit. ' [Bain, The Edwards in Scotland, p. 45[1]]
received lands in Methlick, Monquhitter, New Deer, Ellon, Longside
and Foveran, Buchan following the forfeiture of the Comyn earldom
(Barrow, pp. 384-5)[2]
sheriff of Selkirk, 1328[3]
'an inquisition, held at Aberdeen, dated 1341, before Robert de
Keth, Great Marischal of Scotland' following his death [SP VI:33[3]]
cf. SP VI:33[3]
Spouse: Isabella de Synton
Father: Alexander de Synton (-<1293)
Mother: Maria
Marr: bef Jul 1305[3],[1]
Children: Sir Edward
Sir William (->1407)
Andrew
Katherine
1.1 Sir Edward de Keith
----------------------------------------
of Sinton
: his identity conflated with that of his father Sir Edward
[SP VI:32 et seq.[3]], per Andrew MacEwen
Spouse: Christian de Menteith
Death: abt 1386
Father: Sir John de Menteith (->1343)
Mother: Elen of Mar
Marr: bef 1344[4]
Children: Janet, m. 1) Sir David Barclay,
2) Sir Thomas Erskine
John [PRESUMABLY by another wife]
1.2 Sir William Keith
----------------------------------------
Death: aft 13 May 1407[5]
Occ: Marischal of Scotland
Marischal of Scotland
record of an indult, dated at Fondi, 4 Jan 1378/9:
' Reg Aven 220, 500
To William de Kethe, marshal of Scotland, and Margaret his
wife, Aberdeen diocese. Indult for a plenary remission of
their sins to be granted at the hour of death by a confessor
of their own choice.
Fondi, 2 Non. Jan., anno 1. ' [CPL 1378-1394, p. 20[6]]
' Willelmus de Keth marescallus Scocie et Mergareta Fraser sponsa
eiusdem' , granted a charter to their son Robert de Keith of the
lands of Auchterstruther (Largo par.), Fife, dated at Kyntor,
20 Oct 1380 [Misc. Charter, Scot. Hist. Soc. Miscellany V:28-29,
no. 18[7], cites original charter at Crawford Priory]
Spouse: Margaret Fraser
Death: aft 20 Oct 1380[8]
Father: John Fraser (ca1317-)
Children: Margaret, m. Sir James Lindsay
Muriel, m. Robert Stewart, 1st Duke of Albany
Elizabeth, m. 1) Sir Adam Gordon
Sir John (-<1375)
Sir Robert (-<1430)
Christian, m. John Hay of Tullibody
1.4 Andrew de Keith
----------------------------------------
' Andrea de Keth', witness (together with Adam de Gordon, William
de Barclay and others) to charter of Richard de Montfichet of
Fawside granting lands of Wester Fawside to Alexander Gordon,
undated (est. ca. 1380) [Misc. Charter, Scot. Hist. Soc.
Miscellany V:30-32, no. 19[7], cites original charter at
Duntreath Charter Chest]
1.5 Katherine de Keith
----------------------------------------
'Alexander de Berkeley, of Mathers, who by marrying Catherine,
sister to William de Keith, Marishal of Scotland, obtained
the lands of Mathers, which he added to his paternal estate,
vouched by a Charter, dated A.D. 1351, granted by the said
William de Keith, with consent (as the Charter words it) of
Margaret my wife, to Alexander de Berkeley, and Catharine,
my sister, his spouse, and the longest liver of them two, and
the heirs-male of their bodies; my lands of Mathers, datum
apud mansum capitale nostrum de Strathekin, die Martii
inventione sanctae crucis, A. D. 1351. ' [Barclay pp. 10-11[9]]
~ the foregoing charter confirmed by David II at Perth,
18 March 1350/1 [Anderson I:239[10]]
Spouse: Alexander de Barclay
Father: Andrew de Barclay (-1322)
Marr: bef 18 Mar 1350[10]
Children: David Barclay, of Mathers (-ca1411)
NN (conjectured to have m. William Graham of Montrose)
1. Joseph Bain, F.S.A. Scot., "The Edwards in Scotland, A.D.
1296-1377," being the Rhind Lectures in Archaeology for 1900,
Edinburgh: David Douglas, 1901, courtesy Google books.
2. G. W. S. Barrow, "Robert Bruce and the Community of the Realm
of Scotland," Edinburgh University Press, 1976 (2nd ed.).
3. Sir James Balfour Paul, ed., "The Scots Peerage," Edinburgh:
David Douglas, 1904-1914 (9 volumes).
4. John Riddell, Esq., "Tracts, Legal and Historical, with other
Antiquarian Matter chiefly Relative to Scotland," Edinburgh:
Thomas Clark, Law-Bookseller, 1835.
5. "Genealogics," website by Leo van de Pas,
http://www.genealogics.com
6. Charles Burns, ed., "Calendar of Papal Letters to Scotland of
Clement VII of Avignon, 1378-1394," Edinburgh: T. and A.
Constable, Ltd., 1976, Pub. of the Scottish History Society.
7. William Angus, ed., "Miscellaneous Charters, 1315-1401, from
Transcripts in the Collection of the late Sir William Fraser,"
Miscellany of the Scottish History Society, Edinburgh: T. and
A. Constable Ltd. for the Society, 1933, Vol. V, pp. 3-78.
8. W. H. Bliss, ed., "Calendar of Entries in the Papal Registers
Relating to Great Britain and Ireland," Papal Letters, Vol. II
(A.D. 1305 - 1342), London: for the Public Record Office, 1895,
(reprinted 1971, Kraus-Thomson, Liechtenstein).
9. Robert Barclay, "A genealogical account of the Barclays of
Urie," London: Printed for the editor by J. Herbert, 1812.
10. William Anderson, "The Scottish Nation; Or The Surnames,
Families, Literature, Honours. & Biographical History Of The
People of Scotland," Edinburgh: A. Fullarton & Company, 1862
(Vol. I), 1864 (Vol. II), courtesy Ancestry.com.