de Burstow
Patricia Junkin
Happy New Year Everyone!
Just wanted to ask if CP has a de Burstow genealogy and further ask what the
final determination was on the new CD....worthwhile or in print better? And,
a special thank you to all who were so kind in 2000 to answer my, what I am
certain, must have seemed such elementary questions.
Best,
Pat
D. Spencer Hines
What's the alleged peerage?
--
D. Spencer Hines
Lux et Veritas et Libertas
"The final happiness of man consists in the contemplation of truth....
This is sought for its own sake, and is directed to no other end beyond
itself." Saint Thomas Aquinas, [1224/5-1274] "Summa Contra Gentiles"
[c.1258-1264]
"Populus vult decipi, ergo decipiatur. Odi profanum vulgus et arceo."
Quintus Aurelius Stultus [33 B.C. - 42 A.D.]
All replies to the newsgroup please. Thank you kindly.
All original material contained herein is copyright and property of the
author. It may be quoted only in discussions on this forum and with an
attribution to the author, unless permission is otherwise expressly
given, in writing.
Vires et Honor.
"Patricia Junkin" <paju...@erols.com> wrote in message
news:E14D8Y1-...@smtp01.mrf.mail.rcn.net...
Patricia Junkin
through his son Roger.
----------
>From: "D. Spencer Hines" <D._Spence...@aya.yale.edu>
>To: GEN-MED...@rootsweb.com
>Subject: Re: de Burstow
>Date: Mon, Jan 1, 2001, 1:35 PM
D. Spencer Hines
Quotation and citation?
----
D. Spencer Hines
Lux et Veritas et Libertas
"The final happiness of man consists in the contemplation of truth....
This is sought for its own sake, and is directed to no other end beyond
itself." Saint Thomas Aquinas, [1224/5-1274] "Summa Contra Gentiles"
[c.1258-1264]
"Populus vult decipi, ergo decipiatur. Odi profanum vulgus et arceo."
Quintus Aurelius Stultus [33 B.C. - 42 A.D.]
All replies to the newsgroup please. Thank you kindly.
All original material contained herein is copyright and property of the
author. It may be quoted only in discussions on this forum and with an
attribution to the author, unless permission is otherwise expressly
given, in writing.
Vires et Honor.
Leo van de Pas
In Gerald Paget's two huge books on the ancestors and relatives of Prince
Charles I found
Hamon Dapifer
father of
Robert FitzHamon
Lord of Tewkesbury and Glamorgan
died March 1107
married Sibyl de Montgomery
died 1fter 1140
daughter of Roger II de Montgomery,
1st Earl of Shropshire and of Shrewsbury
and Mabile de Belleme, Dame d'Alencon
I show only a daughter, Mabel, for them
Sibyl married again.
Hope this helps a little
Best wishes
Leo van de Pas
Perth, Western Australia
----- Original Message -----
From: Patricia Junkin <paju...@erols.com>
Patricia Junkin
the Steward whose great grandson may have been Stephen de Burstow alias
FitzHamon. Victoria Histories suggest the following succession: Peter of
Burstow occurs 1093/6, Hamo, Stephen son of Hamo, Roger of Burstow, Peter of
Burstow occurs 1171 and John of Burstow 1210/12. In Calendar of the Charters
and Documents relating to the Abbey of Robertsbridge, I have found the
reference to the charters of Robertsbridge Abbey in which both Stephen in
1189 and his son, Roger, later are mentioned.
I have a skeleton genealogy and am attempting to confirm it. I do so very
much appreciate everyone's help and please keep me in mind should you find
additional clues.
Pat
----------
>From: "Leo van de Pas" <leov...@iinet.net.au>
>To: GEN-MED...@rootsweb.com
>Subject: Re: de Burstow
>Date: Mon, Jan 1, 2001, 6:36 PM
Renia
(Hamon the
Steward), son of Haimo Dentatus, was father of Haimo, and Robert fitz
Haimo, who
was identified as grandson of Haimo Dentatus by William of Malmesbury.
Keats-Rohan identifies five persons called Haimo:
Haimo Dapifer
Haimo de Maci
Haimo de Valenis (Domesday tenant of Count Alan)
Haimo (Domesday tenant of Robert de Mortain)
Haimo (Domesday tenant of William Capra)
The successors of Haimo de Maci in the early 12th century was one
Robert, and by
1166, a second Haimo.
No mention of de Burstow that I can see. The only place called Burstow
that I can
find, is a village in Surrey.
CP says that Robert FitzHamon, said to be grandson of Hamo Dentatus
received the manors in Gloucester. He married Sybil daughter of Roger de
Montgomery, and had a daughter, Mable, who married Robert, the first
Earl of Gloucesteron, son of Henry I.
Renia
Patricia Junkin
Burstow, Burstow was a sub-manor of the archiepiscopal estate of Wimbeldon,
Surrey. In 1093/6 Peter of Buresto owed Anselm the service of a quarter of a
knight. The present entry shows a knight of the same name holding of the
archbishop, but does not specify service. In 1210/12, however, John de
Burstow held a quarter fee of the Archbishop of Wimbeldon.
Further references in the Victoria Histories suggest the following
succession:
Peter of Burstow occurs 1093/6, (contemporary of Hamon Dapifer if my dates
correct)
Hamo,
Stephen son of Hamo, (I have yet to find all charters but the original may
indicate that this is Stephen of Burstow, alias FitzHamon)
Roger of Burstow,
Confirmation of a charter of his father, Stephen, to the monks at
Robertsbridge...all lands monks had in Promhelle of the fee of old Romenal
or of Langeport.. Wits: Nicholas de Haulo, kt.,then sheriff od Kent, William
de Lewes, Alan of Robertsbridge, Ralph de Ferne...
Peter of Burstow occurs 1171 and
John of Burstow 1210/12.
Thank you for replying.
Pat
----------
>From: Renia <PSim...@cwcom.net>
>To: GEN-MED...@rootsweb.com
>Subject: Re: de Burstow
>Date: Tue, Jan 2, 2001, 3:55 AM
Patricia Junkin
Pat
----------
>From: <gek...@onetel.net.uk>
>To: "Patricia Junkin" <paju...@erols.com>, <GEN-MED...@rootsweb.com>
>Subject: Re: de Burstow
>Date: Tue, Jan 2, 2001, 7:24 PM
>
> The following is extracted from 'BRISTOWES, AFTER AND BEFORE THE NORMAN
> CONQUEST' by William.S. BRISTOWE, a privately printed publication dating
> from the 1970's :-
>
> HAMON DENTATUS Baron of Cruelly, Lord of Thorigny etc., (c. 1005-1047)
>
> HAMON the SHERIFF Pincerna & Vicomes of Kent & other areas (incl.
> Camberwell) (1030-1090) m. MAUD D'AVRANCHES
>
> HAMON the STEWARD, Dapifer, Tenant in Chief, Essex, & properties in Sussex.
> (c. 1060-1115) brother of ROBERT FITZHAMON, Lord of Glamorgan,
> Gloucesteretc., & Corbeil, Thorigny (c. 1055- 1107)
>
> GEOFFREY FITZ HAMON (b. c. 1085)
>
> HAMON, Lord of Battle, Sussex (b.c.1110)
>
> STEPHEN FITZ HAMON alias STEPHEN de BURSTOW , brother of GEOFFREY FITZ
> HAMON
>
> ROGER DE BURSTOW (c. 1163 - 1215)
>
> "HAMON the SHERIFF was the eldest son of HAMON DENTATUS and inherited his
> properties in Normandy at Corbeil and Thorigny etc., He is in the Roll of
> Battle Abbey.
> At some date earlier than 1136 William of Malmesbury says that Robert Fitz
> Hamon, eldest son of the Hamon the SHERIFF, was grandson of Hamon Dentatus.
> In Domesday Book this Robert was recorded as Robert De Than which was his
> property in Normandy previously owned by his grandfather Hamon DENTATUS who
> laid church foundations there in 1034.
> Robert was styled in a Charter as ' Sir Robert Fitz Hamon of Corboile
> [sic], Baron of Therigny, Lord of Gloucester, Bristol, Tewkesbury and
> Cardiff. Conquerer of Wales, near kinsman of the King and General of the
> Army in France of his Highness'.. He had just one daughter, Mabel, who
> married the 1st Earl of Gloucester (natural son of Henry 1), he was one of
> the Knights who bore William Rufus's body back from the New Forest , and he
> had a ounger brother.
> This brother was known as HAMON the STEWARD (Dapifer) and has been
> confused with his father HAMON the SHERIFF (Pincerna & Vicecomes). Howevr ,
> the witnesses to a Charter of William the Conquerer leave no doubt:
> 'Ego Haimo Regis dapifer. Ego Robert frater hujus Haimonis'
> (I Haimo the Kings Steward. I Robert brother of this Hamon)
> In 1100 both witnessed a letter by King Henry 1 imploring Anselm to return
> from exile.
> Other confusion (this time with his brother) has led to statements that he
> had no son. A Charter of about 1105 relating to Peasemore Church in
> Berkshire was witnessed by GEOFFREY son of Hamon the Steward (dapifer).
> The Hamons were well-established in the Home Counties owing to the King's
> grants of lands to the SHERIFF having married a Kentish Heiress, so when we
> hear of HAYMO, LORD of BATTLE at a date between 1154 and 1189, it becomes
> likely that he is a son of Geoffrey 9 or he could even be Geoffrey himself).
> The likellihood is increased by the knowledge that HAYMO, LORD of BATTLE,
> named a son Geoffrey presumably after his father ( or himself). It would
> seem he also had a son STEPHEN, who conveyed lands to the nearby Abbey of
> Robertsbridge after his father's death. Bobertsbridge is only 5 miles from
> Battle and by that time(1189) Stephen was established in his lordship at
> Burstow, just over the county border in Surrey.
> Round the circumference of Stephen's seal is the following:
> 'Sigillum Stephani Filii Hamonis' [Seal of Stephen son of
> Hamon.
> The Roll of the Abbey of Robertsbridge describes Stephen as Stephen de
> Burstow and he was called by this name locally in Burstow. The Rolls also
> mention Roger De Burstow, and on his seal are the words "Roger Filius
> Stephani".
> Sir Edward Bysshe, Garter King-of-Arms and himself a Burstowe descendant
> says Sir JOHN DE BURSTOW (c 1185-1255) was a grandson of Stephen. He had
> younger brothers including RANDOLPH of Horley and PETER of Horne"
>
> Regards
> Dan
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Patricia Junkin <paju...@erols.com>
> To: <GEN-MED...@rootsweb.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, January 02, 2001 2:23 PM
> Subject: Re: de Burstow
>
>
>> ______________________________
>
ge...@gecko.screaming.net
Regards
Dan
----- Original Message -----
From: Patricia Junkin <paju...@erols.com>
To: <GEN-MED...@rootsweb.com>
Sent: Tuesday, January 02, 2001 2:23 PM
Subject: Re: de Burstow
> ______________________________
J.C.B.Sharp
ge...@gecko.screaming.net () wrote:
> "HAMON the SHERIFF was the eldest son of HAMON DENTATUS and inherited
> his
> properties in Normandy at Corbeil and Thorigny etc., He is in the Roll
> of
> Battle Abbey.
Corbeil-Essonnes to the south of Paris is not in Normandy. Round has shown
that Hamo count of Corbeil and Hamo Dentatus were different people and
later attempts by the Granvilles to claim the earldom of Corbeil had no
basis (Family Origins, 130-169).
> At some date earlier than 1136 William of Malmesbury says that Robert
> Fitz
> Hamon, eldest son of the Hamon the SHERIFF, was grandson of Hamon
> Dentatus.
> In Domesday Book this Robert was recorded as Robert De Than which was
> his
> property in Normandy previously owned by his grandfather Hamon DENTATUS
> who
> laid church foundations there in 1034.
Thaon (Calvados cant. Creully) appears as Than in the 1133 Bayeux Inquest
as part of the fee of Maminot held of the bishop. It was not part of
Evrecy which the earl of Gloucester held of the bishop (Memoires de la
Societe des Antiquaires de Normandie, 1835, 427).
If the church was built by a Hamo then it was probably by a member of the
Saint-Clair family who certainly had land there later and used the name
Hamo. I cannot identify Robert de Thaon but he was not the Robert fitz
Hamon.
> Robert was styled in a Charter as ' Sir Robert Fitz Hamon of Corboile
> [sic], Baron of Therigny, Lord of Gloucester, Bristol, Tewkesbury and
> Cardiff. Conquerer of Wales, near kinsman of the King and General of the
> Army in France of his Highness'.. He had just one daughter, Mabel, who
I doubt this could be genuine.
> married the 1st Earl of Gloucester (natural son of Henry 1), he was one
> of
> the Knights who bore William Rufus's body back from the New Forest ,
> and he
> had a ounger brother.
> This brother was known as HAMON the STEWARD (Dapifer) and has been
> confused with his father HAMON the SHERIFF (Pincerna & Vicecomes).
> Howevr ,
> the witnesses to a Charter of William the Conquerer leave no doubt:
> 'Ego Haimo Regis dapifer. Ego Robert frater hujus Haimonis'
> (I Haimo the Kings Steward. I Robert brother of this Hamon)
Dated 13 April 1069 at Winchester (D.Bates, Regesta Regum Anglo
Normannorum, no 254). So what does this prove?
> In 1100 both witnessed a letter by King Henry 1 imploring Anselm to
> return
> from exile.
J.C.B.Sharp
London
jc...@obtfc.win-uk.net
Renia
> The following is extracted from 'BRISTOWES, AFTER AND BEFORE THE NORMAN
> CONQUEST' by William.S. BRISTOWE, a privately printed publication dating
> from the 1970's :-
>
> HAMON DENTATUS Baron of Cruelly, Lord of Thorigny etc., (c. 1005-1047)
>
> HAMON the SHERIFF Pincerna & Vicomes of Kent & other areas (incl.
> Camberwell) (1030-1090) m. MAUD D'AVRANCHES
>
> HAMON the STEWARD, Dapifer, Tenant in Chief, Essex, & properties in Sussex.
He held lands in Essex, Kent and Surrey. He is not mentioned in Domesday Sussex.
(See below, re the identities of Hamon the Sheriff and Hamon the Steward, as
being the same person.)
Who was Maud d'Avranches? Hugh d'Avranches, earl of Chester, was son of Richard,
Vicomte d'Avranches and Emma (daughter of Herluin de Conteville and Herleve),
the half-sister of Duke William, through Herleve. I don't know who this Maud
was, but if she was related to these Victomes d'Avranches, it seems too good a
match between a Norman aristocratic family and that of a steward, who actually
held comparitively little land in Domesday.
>
> (c. 1060-1115) brother of ROBERT FITZHAMON, Lord of Glamorgan,
> Gloucesteretc., & Corbeil, Thorigny (c. 1055- 1107)
>
> GEOFFREY FITZ HAMON (b. c. 1085)
>
> HAMON, Lord of Battle, Sussex (b.c.1110)
>
> STEPHEN FITZ HAMON alias STEPHEN de BURSTOW , brother of GEOFFREY FITZ
> HAMON
>
> ROGER DE BURSTOW (c. 1163 - 1215)
>
> "HAMON the SHERIFF was the eldest son of HAMON DENTATUS and inherited his
> properties in Normandy at Corbeil and Thorigny etc., He is in the Roll of
> Battle Abbey.
The Battle Abbey Roll is notoriously unreliable. See the soc.genealogy.medieval
archives for many postings on this.
>
> At some date earlier than 1136 William of Malmesbury says that Robert Fitz
> Hamon, eldest son of the Hamon the SHERIFF, was grandson of Hamon Dentatus.
> In Domesday Book this Robert was recorded as Robert De Than which was his
> property in Normandy previously owned by his grandfather Hamon DENTATUS who
> laid church foundations there in 1034.
In Keats-Rohan's "Domesday People", she describes Robert de Tham who "occurs in
Domesday Buckinghamshire as a tenant of Odo de Bayeux. Perhaps the same person
as 'the son of William de Thaon' who occurs in Domesday Kent. Alternatively, the
same as the Robert who held in Thame of the bishop of Lincoln in Oxfordshire,
who, in turn, was probably the same as Robert d'Oilly". (There is no mention of
a Robert de Than.) If Keats-Rohan is correct, then this Robert de Than is quite
a different person to Robert fitz Hamon (grandson of Hamo Dentatus) whose
daughter married Robert, first earl of Gloucester, son of Henry I.
Domesday People shows one Robert de Cruel, a Norman, named from Criel-sur-Mer,
Seine-Maritime, Domesday enant of the count of Eu in Sussex. Whether this has
anything to do with Hamon Dentatus, Baron of Cruelly, which you mention, above,
I do not know.
> Robert was styled in a Charter as ' Sir Robert Fitz Hamon of Corboile
> [sic], Baron of Therigny, Lord of Gloucester, Bristol, Tewkesbury and
> Cardiff. Conquerer of Wales, near kinsman of the King and General of the
> Army in France of his Highness'.. He had just one daughter, Mabel, who
> married the 1st Earl of Gloucester (natural son of Henry 1), he was one of
> the Knights who bore William Rufus's body back from the New Forest , and he
> had a ounger brother.
> This brother was known as HAMON the STEWARD (Dapifer) and has been
> confused with his father HAMON the SHERIFF (Pincerna & Vicecomes).
Domesday People identifies Haimo Dapifer thus:
Norman, son of Haimo Dentatus, lord of Torigny-sur-Vire, Manche, a rebel killed
in 1047. Haimo the Steward, sheriff of Kent from 1077 until his death c.1100,
when his son Haimo succeeded him as sheriff. Father also of Robert fitz Haimo,
who was identified as a grandson of Haimo Dentatus by William of Malmesbury. In
other words, Katherine Keats-Rohan has Hamon the Steward (Dapifer) and Haimo the
Sheriff as being the same person, with two sons, one also Haimo, who was also
Sheriff of Kent, and Robert.
As I said in my other post, she identifies 5 separate people called Haimo, who
could all have fathered Fitz-Hamons:.
Haimo Dapifer
Haimo de Maci
Haimo de Valenis (Domesday tenant of Count Alan)
Haimo (Domesday tenant of Robert de Mortain)
Haimo (Domesday tenant of William Capra)
> Howevr ,
> the witnesses to a Charter of William the Conquerer leave no doubt:
> 'Ego Haimo Regis dapifer. Ego Robert frater hujus Haimonis'
> (I Haimo the Kings Steward. I Robert brother of this Hamon)
> In 1100 both witnessed a letter by King Henry 1 imploring Anselm to return
> from exile.
So, from Keats-Rohan, there is no doubt that Haimo Dentatus had at least two
sons, Haimo Dapifer (the Sheriff, who had a son of the same name) and Robert
fitz Haimo. It is presumably these two mentioned in the charter of 1100.
> Other confusion (this time with his brother) has led to statements that he
> had no son. A Charter of about 1105 relating to Peasemore Church in
> Berkshire was witnessed by GEOFFREY son of Hamon the Steward (dapifer).
> The Hamons were well-established in the Home Counties owing to the King's
> grants of lands to the SHERIFF having married a Kentish Heiress, so when we
> hear of HAYMO, LORD of BATTLE at a date between 1154 and 1189, it becomes
> likely that he is a son of Geoffrey 9 or he could even be Geoffrey himself).
> The likellihood is increased by the knowledge that HAYMO, LORD of BATTLE,
> named a son Geoffrey presumably after his father ( or himself). It would
> seem he also had a son STEPHEN, who conveyed lands to the nearby Abbey of
> Robertsbridge after his father's death. Bobertsbridge is only 5 miles from
> Battle and by that time(1189) Stephen was established in his lordship at
> Burstow, just over the county border in Surrey.
The only Burstow I can find is near Gatwick Airport and Horley, and is about 40
miles from Robertsbridge.
>
> Round the circumference of Stephen's seal is the following:
> 'Sigillum Stephani Filii Hamonis' [Seal of Stephen son of
> Hamon.
> The Roll of the Abbey of Robertsbridge describes Stephen as Stephen de
> Burstow and he was called by this name locally in Burstow.
People were more often called de Somewhere, when they were away from the place
where they lived or had their holdings, rather than when they were actually
there, when they might be called de SomewhereElse.
> The Rolls also
> mention Roger De Burstow, and on his seal are the words "Roger Filius
> Stephani".
> Sir Edward Bysshe, Garter King-of-Arms and himself a Burstowe descendant
> says Sir JOHN DE BURSTOW (c 1185-1255) was a grandson of Stephen. He had
> younger brothers including RANDOLPH of Horley and PETER of Horne"
>
> Regards
> Dan
Renia
Patricia Junkin
Is there agreement that Hamon the Steward (Dapifer) was the brother of
Robert FitzHamon, Lord of Glamorgan who had Mabel? "Robert was styled in a
Charter as ' Sir Robert Fitz Hamon of Corboile [sic], Baron of Therigny,
Lord of Gloucester, Bristol, Tewkesbury and Cardiff. Conquerer of
frater hujus Haimonis." This proves that a Robert and Hamo Dapifer were
brothers and could provide pieces to a greater puzzle. Is the date of
1060-1115 reliable for Dapifer?
I found information that suggests "Ightham was held in the reign of king
Henry III by Hamo de Crevequer, who died possessed of it in the 47th year of
that reign, anno 1262, leaving Robert his grandson and heir. By his wife
Maud de Albrincis, or Averenches, he had also four daughters Agnes, wife of
John de Sandwich, Isolda, wife of Nicholas de Lenham, Elene of Bertram de
Criol and Isabel of Henry of Gaunt. Ightham falls to Nicholas son of
Bertram de Criol and in 31E1 his heirs alienated it to William de Inge."
This Maud, if she was an Averenches would be of another generation.
In tracing Stephen de Burstow and whether or not he was alias FitzHamon
might be confirmed or not by a look at the original charter for
Robertsbridge. Certainly, the confirmation states that Roger de Burstow was
the son of Stephen.
I believe we can say that:
Peter of Burstow occurs 1171
Peter living at Burstow in 1093/6....
then, Hamo
Stephen son of Hamo, ca. 1189 charter
Roger of Burstow, son of Stephen
and John of Burstow 1210/12 when he owed knight's fees....
"In 1100 both witnessed a letter by King Henry 1 imploring Anselm to
return from exile."...In 1093/6 Peter of Buresto owed Anselm the service of
a quarter of a knight
I do appreciate all the assistance in clarifying the data. More work to be
done.
Best,
Pat
----------
>From: Renia <PSim...@cwcom.net>
>To: GEN-MED...@rootsweb.com
>Subject: Re: de Burstow
>Date: Wed, Jan 3, 2001, 1:55 PM
Renia
<snip>
> The Roll of the Abbey of Robertsbridge describes Stephen as Stephen de
> Burstow and he was called by this name locally in Burstow. The Rolls also
> mention Roger De Burstow, and on his seal are the words "Roger Filius
> Stephani".
> Sir Edward Bysshe, Garter King-of-Arms and himself a Burstowe descendant
> says Sir JOHN DE BURSTOW (c 1185-1255) was a grandson of Stephen. He had
> younger brothers including RANDOLPH of Horley and PETER of Horne"
>
> Regards
> Dan
The PRO website online:
shows several entries for Bysshe and Busshe in relation to Burstow, within class
C1 (Court of Chancery: Six Clerks Office: Early Proceedings, Richard II to
Philip and Mary)
e.g.
C 1/313/4
John, son and heir of William Gage, esquire. v. John,
son of William
Bysshe.: Detention of deeds relating to the manor of
Burstow.: Surrey.
Renia
Renia
> Renia,
> Is there agreement that Hamon the Steward (Dapifer) was the brother of
> Robert FitzHamon, Lord of Glamorgan who had Mabel? "Robert was styled in a
> Charter as ' Sir Robert Fitz Hamon of Corboile [sic], Baron of Therigny,
> Lord of Gloucester, Bristol, Tewkesbury and Cardiff. Conquerer of
> Wales"....where might that charter be? "Ego Haimo Regis dapifer. Ego Robert
> frater hujus Haimonis." This proves that a Robert and Hamo Dapifer were
> brothers and could provide pieces to a greater puzzle. Is the date of
> 1060-1115 reliable for Dapifer?
To repeat: Domesday People identifies Haimo Dapifer thus:
Norman, son of Haimo Dentatus, lord of Torigny-sur-Vire, Manche, a rebel killed in
1047. Haimo the Steward, sheriff of Kent from 1077 until his death c.1100, when his
son Haimo succeeded him as sheriff. Father also of Robert fitz Haimo, who was
identified as a grandson of Haimo Dentatus by William of Malmesbury. In other words,
Katherine Keats-Rohan has Hamon the Steward (Dapifer) and Haimo the Sheriff as being
the same person, with two sons, one also Haimo, who was also Sheriff of Kent, and
Robert.
So a mini-genealogy:
Haimo Dentatus d 1047
|
Haimo Dapifer
(the Steward)
& Sheriff of Kent
d 1100
|
-------------------------
| |
Haimo Robert fitz Hamon
(Sheriff of |
Kent) Mabel = 1st Earl Gloucester
Now, whether Haimo, the son (who was Sheriff of Kent like his father) was also a
steward or dapifer, I do not know.
But please also note J.C.B.Sharp's post, where he said (among other interesting
comments):
QUOTE
Corbeil-Essonnes to the south of Paris is not in Normandy. Round has shown
that Hamo count of Corbeil and Hamo Dentatus were different people and
later attempts by the Granvilles to claim the earldom of Corbeil had no
basis (Family Origins, 130-169).
UNQUOTE
Remember that there were no real surnames at this time. There were lots of different
Hamos and Hamons, not all related. Neither were people necessarily related who held
the same office, say, of dapifer.
> I found information that suggests "Ightham was held in the reign of king
> Henry III by Hamo de Crevequer, who died possessed of it in the 47th year of
> that reign, anno 1262, leaving Robert his grandson and heir. By his wife
> Maud de Albrincis, or Averenches, he had also four daughters Agnes, wife of
> John de Sandwich, Isolda, wife of Nicholas de Lenham, Elene of Bertram de
> Criol and Isabel of Henry of Gaunt. Ightham falls to Nicholas son of
> Bertram de Criol and in 31E1 his heirs alienated it to William de Inge."
> This Maud, if she was an Averenches would be of another generation.
Ightham Mote is one of the most popular of the National Trust houses, which I,
personally, think is gorgeous.
http://www.thebournes.demon.co.uk/uk_imote.htm
Renia
Patricia Junkin
This Bysshe family is my ancestry. The Manor of Ightham came into the hands
of my James family through the Willoughbys. Sir Thomas Willoughby had
Ightham in the right of his wife Bridget and their son, Robert alienated it
to William James son of Roger James of London. This James family was
descendant of the Dutch von Hastrechts. I have visited Ightham Mote several
times and it is wonderful.
In the Inq. William Gauge, Esq. in 1434 John Gauge was seized of the manor
of Heightes Seyntclere in fee and by deed gave it to said William and Agnes
his wife. This William was seised of land in East Grinstead and Worthe in
fee and by deed 8 Hen VII enfeoffed among others Nicholas Culpeper, and
seized of the manor of Torryng Seyntclere, likewise enfeoffed to among
others William James and John Bysshe. In1436 on a writ of amotus, William
Guage Esq. was seised of the manor of Bristowe [Burstowe] and Hedgecourt and
land in Tanrige, Wolkested and Horne and being so seised, by charter, 5 Nov
8 Hen VII enfeoffed [among others] Nicholas Culpeper; naming Manor of
Bristowe [Burstow] in Surrey parcel called Horsecroftes held of Edward Duke
of Buckingham.....14 ac. called Tanners in the parish of Tanrige held of
Richard Culpeper...Manor of Wodeland in Kent enfeoffed to [among others]
William James and John Bysshe..and their heirs forever........
Again, may I thank you for all your contributions.
Pat
A Channing
>
> Renia,
> This Bysshe family is my ancestry. The Manor of Ightham came into the
hands
> of my James family through the Willoughbys. Sir Thomas Willoughby had
> Ightham in the right of his wife Bridget and their son, Robert alienated
it
> to William James son of Roger James of London. This James family was
> descendant of the Dutch von Hastrechts. I have visited Ightham Mote
several
> times and it is wonderful.
The guide to Ightham Mote (1986) does not mention either of these two
families, although there is a Robert Whittlebury. Can you give dates and
sources?
Adrian