de Meherenc de Motmirel (update)
jbunot
1. Françoise de Méhérenc de Montmirel, ép. Canchy, 22.08.1634, Jean
Gueret, sister of Pierre de Méhérenc, seigneur de La Conseillère,
maintenu noble par Chamillart 1666
GENERATION II
2. Jean de Méhérenc, seigneur de Montmirel et de La Conseillère
3. ép. 1609, Jeanne du Mesnil (her parentage is yet established only
by deduction : she has to belong to the only noble and protestant
family of that name in the immediate vecinity of Trévières and for
chronological raisons she can only be daughter of her presumed
parents. There are simply no other family or set of parents available.
The two families are protestant, neighbours and known to be related on
several occasions)
GENERATION III
4. Adrien de Méhérenc, seigneur de Montmirel à La Cambe et de La
Conseillère (1567/1590), maintenu noble en 1567
5. ép. 1579, Jeanne du Pont (+ avant 1590)
6. Pierre du Mesnil, seigneur de Saint-Pierre-du-Mont et de Saint-Paul
7. ép. 1583, Suzanne de Grosourdy
GENERATION IV
8. Guillaume de Méhérenc, seigneur de La Conseillère à La Cambe
9. ép. 1545, Marguerite (de) Sandret (not Sausdret)
12. Robert du Mesnil
13. ép. Françoise de Cotteville
GENERATION V
16. Guillaume de Méhérenc, seigneur de Laubel (or L’Aubel)
17. ép. 1525, Françoise de Maugny, dame de Laubel à Cricqueville en
Bessin
GENERATION VI
32. Denis de Méhérenc, seigneur des Londes à Trévières (1500/1528),
maintenu noble par du Bosc en 1523
33. ép. 1506, Anne de Grosparmy
34. Sébastien de Maugny, seigneur de Laubel à Cricqueville en Bessin
35. ép. Catherine Le François
GENERATION VII
64. Guillaume II de Meherenc, sgr des Londes, maintenu noble en 1463
(+ 1499/1500)
65. ép. 20.7.1470 (cm), Isabeau de Malherbe, dame du Breuil à La
Vacquerie (not related to poete François de Malherbe but from a
different unrelated homonymous family based in La Vacquerie,
sergenterie de Torigni-sur-Vire, with different coats of arms)
66. Jean de Grosparmy, seigreur de Beuville, de Fontenay-le-Tesson et
de Grimbosq (indeed a relative of the famous Grosparmy, barons de
Flers, but from a different branch according to maintenue de Noblesse,
based on original documents where the father of Anne is authentically
styled “seigneur de Beuville, Fontenay-le-Tesson et Grimbosq”)
70. Richard Le François, seigneur du Port
GENERATION VIII
128. Guillaume Ier de Méhérenc, seigneur des Londes (1413/1453/+ 1463)
129. ép. 11.12.1445 (cm), Marguerite de La Haye du Bouillon, dame de
Longueville et de Ranchy (1445/1472)
130. Lucas de Malherbe, seigneur de La Boisselière et du Jardin à La
Vacquerie
131. ép. Jeanne du Fresne, dame de Tanye et des Anges
GENERATION IX
256. Richard Bouchard de Meherenc, sgr des Londes (1406/1411)
257. ép. 1391, Marguerite Suhard du Chastellier
258. Robert de La Haye, seigneur du Bouillon
259. ép. 1426, Robine du Bois, dame de Longueville, de Ranchy et
d’Arganchy près Bayeux
260. Robert de Malherbe, seigneur de La Boisselière et du jardin à La
Vacquerie
GENERATION X
512. Renouf Bouchard de Meherenc, sgr des Londes à Trévières
(1372/1406)
513. ép. Henrye de Thaon
514. Hélie Suhard, seigneur du Chastellier et du Prey (+ après 1406)
516. Jean de La Haye, seigneur du Bouillon
517. ép. Jeanne de Grosparmy
518. Jean VI du Bois, dit le Gascoing, seigneur de L’Espinay-Tesson,
de Montbray et de Langronne, capitaine de Bayeux 1377/1382 (1377/1408)
519. ép. 1398, Catherine de La Luzerne, dame de Pirou
520. Jean de Malherbe, seigneur de La Boisselière et du Jardin
GENERATION XI
1024. Raoul Bouchard, seigneur de Méhérenc à Trévières (1328/1372)
1025. ép. Ne... d’Escrammeville
1032. Philippe Ier de La Haye, seigneur de La Haye-Hue, de Villebaudon
et de Beaucoudray, capitaine du château de Hambye (+ 1421)
1033. ép. Isabelle d’O
1036. Jean V du Bois, seigneur de L’Espinay-Tesson, capitaine de
Bayeux 1367/68, vicomte du Pont-de-L’Arche (1341/69)
1037. ép. Jeanne de Montenay, dame de Montbray et de Langronne
1038. Guillaume II, seigneur de La Luzerne
1039. ép. Jeanne de La Haye de Néhou
GENERATION XII
2064. Jean II, seigneur de La Haye-Hue, de Villebaudon et de
Beaucoudray (+ 1389)
2065. ép. Jeanne de Manneville
2072. Jean IV, seigneur du Bois, chevalier banneret (1313/40)
2073. ép. Françoise Tesson, dame de L’Espinay-Tesson
2074. Guillaume Ier, seigneur de Montenay (1338)
2075. ép. Marie de Hotot, dame de Montbray, de Langronne et du Hommet
en partie
2076. Aumaury II, seigneur de La Luzerne (1357)
2077. ép. Jeanne Renaut
2078. Guillaume de La Haye, baron de Néhou
GENERATION XIII
4128. Jean, seigneur de La Haye-Hue, de Villebaudon et de Beaucoudray
4129. ép. Jeanne de Villiers, dame de Coulonces
4144. Robert, seigneur du Bois, banneret (1298/+ avant 1313)
4145. ép. Marie d’Urville
4146. Guillaume Tesson, seigneur de L’Espinay-Tesson (+ avant 1341)
4147. ép. Marie de Hotot (+ après 1344)
4148. Jean II, seigneur de Montenay (1303)
4150. Robert de Hotot, seigneur d’Asnières, de Mézière, de Louvières
et de La Chapelle, châtelain de Beaumont-le-Richard
4151. ép. Jeanne, baronne du Hommet en partie, dame de Beaumont-le-
Richard, de Montbray, Langronne
4152. Amaury Ier, seigneur de La Luzerne (+ 1357)
4153. ép. Agnès de Hamars
4154. Lucas Renaut, chevalier
4156. Robert, seigneur de La Haye-Hue, baron de Néhou
4157. ép. 1319, Luce, dame de Pirou
GENERATION XIV
8256. Robert III, seigneur de La Haye-Hue, baron de Néhou
8257. ép. 1319, Luce, dame de Pirou
8258. Jean de Villiers, seigneur de Coulonces
8288. Pierre, seigneur du Bois, banneret (1259/61)
8289. ép. Philippote du Bois
8292. Guillaume Tesson, seigneur de La Roche-Tesson, de L’Espinay-
Tesson et de Percy (1251)
8293. ép. Ne... Martel de Bacqueville
8294. Robert, seigneur de Hotot
8296. Jean Ier, seigneur de Montenay (1236/44)
8302. Jourdain III, baron du Hommet et de La Luthumière, seigneur de
Varenguebec, de La Haye-du-Puits, d’Aunay, de Marigny, de Beaumont-le-
Richard et autres lieux, connétable de Normandie (+ 1271)
8303. ép. Anne, dame de Montbray et de Langronne
8304. Thomas, seigneur de La Luzerne (+ 1309)
8305. ép. 1287, Alix de Thibouville
8312. Robert II, seigneur de La Haye-Hue, baron de Néhou (+ 1311)
8313. ép. 1286, Héloys de Blainville
8314. Jean, seigneur de Pirou
8315. ép. Nicole Paynel
GENERATION XV
16512. Robert II, seigneur de La Haye-Hue, baron de Néhou (+ 1311)
16513. ép. 1286, Heloys de Blainville
16514. Jean, seigneur de Pirou
16515. ép. Nicole Paynel
16576. Jean III, seigneur du Bois, banneret (1281)
16577. ép. Jeanne de Beuzeville
16584. Raoul Tesson, seigneur de La Roche-Tesson, de Percy, de
Grippon, de Subligny, de L’Espinay-Tesson, de Tréauville et de
Hainneville (+ 1270)
16585. ép. 1239, Pétronille de Montfort-Bigorre, dame de Rambouillet
16588. Robert, seigneur de Hotot
16589. ép. Philippe Paynel de Hambye, dame de Marcambye
16592. Nicolas, seigneur de Montenay (1215)
16593. ép. Édine de Mortemer
16604. Richard II, baron du Hommet et de La Luthumière, seigneur de
Beaumont-le-Richard, d’Aunay, de Marigny et autres lieux, connétable
de Normandie (+ 1202)
16605. ép. Gillette de La Haye, dame de La Haye-du-Puits et de
Varenguebec (+ 1192)
16608. Geoffroy, seigneur de La Luzerne (1240)
16609. ép. Audouine du Mesnil
16610. Robert III, seigneur de Thibouville (1252/66)
16611. ép. ?.8.1266, Jeanne Tesson
16624. Robert Ier, seigneur de La Haye-Hue et d’Éroudeville (+ avant
1283)
16625. ép. 1237, Luce de Vernon, dame de Néhou
16630. Olivier Paynel, seigneur de La Haye-Pesnel (1248/64)
16631. ép. Agnès Roussel, dame de Moyon par achat (1272/1314)
Sources : Different Maitenues de Noblesse, Manuscrits Français,
Archives départementales du Calvados, typed genealogical chart of the
Montmirel branch kindly sent by the Marquis de Saint-Pierre and based
on original documents still kept in Méhérenc family archives, original
reseach by Jean-Jacques Bréguet, Laurent Rousselle, le pasteur
Vatinel, Alain Contant and myself, several numbers of Revue
généalogique Normande and of Héraldique et Généalogie, book of local
history (Histoire de Trévières, Histoire du Bessin, Histoire politique
et religieuse d’Isigny), etc..
Bob Turcott
To all:
my cousin Henri de MEHERENC de SAINT PIERRE
now indicates this:
I have just found a very interesting information:
Gilles de MEHERENC did participate at the famous battle of BOUVINES ( do not prononce the last S ) on Sunday 27 July 1214; He was the Knight in attendance to the Lord de GIBERVILLE.
The French troups were commanded by the King PHILIPPE-AUGUSTE against the German troups commanded by OTHON IV.
We can say for sure that our family goes back to 1214.
We are investigating the VIKING ancestors but no reliable informations available now. We will keep you informed of our findings.
Source:
Henri de MEHERENC de SAINT PIERRE
> From: magnu...@yahoo.com
> Subject: de Meherenc de Motmirel (update)
> Date: Sat, 1 Aug 2009 12:17:56 -0700
> To: gen-me...@rootsweb.com
> -------------------------------
> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to GEN-MEDIEV...@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message
_________________________________________________________________
Get back to school stuff for them and cashback for you.
http://www.bing.com/cashback?form=MSHYCB&publ=WLHMTAG&crea=TEXT_MSHYCB_BackToSchool_Cashback_BTSCashback_1x1
M.Sjostrom
the obvious dork Turcott uttered pompously and gullibly:
"We can say for sure that our family goes back to 1214."
bullshit. THAT cannot be said, unless the precise descent from the alleged 1214 'Gilles de Meherenc', filiations generation by generation, can be proved to the established lineage of lords of Meherenc in the 1300s (more than a century later).
I underline: the claim made by Turcott is bullshit.
All we know that possibly someone named Gilles held Meherenc in c1214,
and still, it COULD well have changed hands (and broken the family descent) in between 1214 and the 1300s when that Bouchard guy held Meherenc.
NOTHING attests yet that Meherenc was necessarily inherited all the way between 1214 and the 1300s Bouchards. Nothing.
Denis Beauregard
�crivait dans soc.genealogy.medieval:
>
>To all:
>
>
>
> my cousin Henri de MEHERENC de SAINT PIERRE
>now indicates this:
>
>
> I have just found a very interesting information:
>
> Gilles de MEHERENC did participate at the famous battle of BOUVINES ( do not prononce the last S ) on Sunday 27 July 1214; He was the Knight in attendance to the Lord de GIBERVILLE.
>
> The French troups were commanded by the King PHILIPPE-AUGUSTE against the German troups commanded by OTHON IV.
>
> We can say for sure that our family goes back to 1214.
maybe not the "family" but at least the name...
> We are investigating the VIKING ancestors but no reliable informations available now. We will keep you informed of our findings.
A Google search gives that:
>
>Dictionnaire de la noblesse, contenant les g�n�alogies, l'histoire & la ...?
>de Fran�ois-Alexandre Aubert de La Chesnaye-Desbois, Badier - 1868
>Page 588
>... de la Fallu, de Saint -Gilles & de Vauquelin. ... Bouvines au mois de
>Septembre 1340, & continua de rendre fes ...
It is not possible to view an extract so I can't say what is said
in that page. I checked a more recent version of the book and
there is nothing in the Meherenc entry about that. And nothing under
Bouchard.
If we look at Bouvines 1340, there are lines like that:
>Il participe � l'ost de Bouvines, en 1340,
>des recettes et mises pour cause de l'Ost de Bouvines l'an 1340
"ost" is an army formed when necessary. So, in 1340, and many other
times before or after that, an army was formed at Bouvines. I am not
an expert of military matters at that time but I would be very curious
to know what exactly was found. Gilles de Meherenc in Bouvines and
on another document, the battle of 1214, or both in the same record ?
Denis
--
Denis Beauregard - g�n�alogiste �m�rite (FQSG)
Les Fran�ais d'Am�rique du Nord - www.francogene.com/genealogie--quebec/
French in North America before 1722 - www.francogene.com/quebec--genealogy/
Sur c�d�rom � 1770 - On CD-ROM to 1770
Bob Turcott
Denis,
I will wait to hear from cousin Henri, however Henri did indicate this statement to me in which I totaly forgot to post it in my original post Henri writes this to me:
"We have tracked the MEHERENC falilly in France, back to the battle of BOUVINES - 27 July 1214 - when a knight of MEHERENC ( already in nobility ) did defend and save the life ot the king Philippe - Auguste"
> From: denis.b-at-f...@fr.invalid
> Subject: Re: de Meherenc de Motmirel (update)
> Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 18:00:24 -0400
> To: gen-me...@rootsweb.com
>
> Le Mon, 3 Aug 2009 20:53:12 +0000, Bob Turcott
> -------------------------------
> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to GEN-MEDIEV...@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message
Get free photo software from Windows Live Click here.
_________________________________________________________________
Get free photo software from Windows Live
http://www.windowslive.com/online/photos?ocid=PID23393::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:SI_PH_software:082009
Bob Turcott
Denis,
I will wait to hear from cousin Henri, however Henri did indicate this statement to me in which I totaly forgot to post it in my original post Henri writes this to me:
"We have tracked the MEHERENC falilly in France, back to the battle of BOUVINES - 27 July 1214 - when a knight of MEHERENC ( already in nobility ) did defend and save the life ot the king Philippe - Auguste"
----------------------------------------
> From: bobtu...@msn.com
> To: magnu...@yahoo.com; gen-me...@rootsweb.com
> Subject: RE: de Meherenc de Motmirel (update)
> Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 20:53:12 +0000
>
>
> To all:
>
>
>
> my cousin Henri de MEHERENC de SAINT PIERRE
> now indicates this:
>
>
> I have just found a very interesting information:
>
> Gilles de MEHERENC did participate at the famous battle of BOUVINES ( do not prononce the last S ) on Sunday 27 July 1214; He was the Knight in attendance to the Lord de GIBERVILLE.
>
> The French troups were commanded by the King PHILIPPE-AUGUSTE against the German troups commanded by OTHON IV.
>
> We can say for sure that our family goes back to 1214.
>
> We are investigating the VIKING ancestors but no reliable informations available now. We will keep you informed of our findings.
>
> Source:
>
> Henri de MEHERENC de SAINT PIERRE
> > From: magnu...@yahoo.com
> > Subject: de Meherenc de Motmirel (update)
> > Date: Sat, 1 Aug 2009 12:17:56 -0700
> > To: gen-me...@rootsweb.com
> >
> > -------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to GEN-MEDIEV...@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Get back to school stuff for them and cashback for you.
> http://www.bing.com/cashback?form=MSHYCB&publ=WLHMTAG&crea=TEXT_MSHYCB_BackToSchool_Cashback_BTSCashback_1x1
>
> -------------------------------
> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to GEN-MEDIEV...@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message
Denis Beauregard
�crivait dans soc.genealogy.medieval:
>
>Denis,
>
>I will wait to hear from cousin Henri, however Henri did indicate this statement to me in which I totaly forgot to post it in my original post Henri writes this to me:
>
>"We have tracked the MEHERENC falilly in France, back to the battle of BOUVINES - 27 July 1214 - when a knight of MEHERENC ( already in nobility ) did defend and save the life ot the king Philippe - Auguste"
Bob :
Can you delete the lines of the previous post when you add 2 lines
and the remaining part of the previous post is irrelevant ? Looking
into a message of 400 lines to find that you add nothing but a small
comment is not very efficient for the readers...
jbunot
The family as been studied. I am afraid there is nothing historical to
be found will a level of proof that would be acceptable in the context
of serious genealogical works/studies. The documents are simply
lacking. If the Meherenc had in their possession any such document
prooving their family go back to the XIIIe century or earlier, they
would certainely have produced that crucial evidence when successively
prooving their nobility in front of the kings commissionners for the
Maintenues de Noblesse where they were anyway recognized by the French
crown as belonging to the "Noblesse d'ancienne extraction" and that is
good enough.
Very serious french genealogists, like Jean-Jacques Bréguet and
Laurent Rousselle (both specialists in Basse-Normandie nobility) and
also le pasteur Vatinel, the acknowledged specialist in protestant
normandie genealogy, have all carefully look into that mater and have
not found anything to substantiate and earlier origin. May I point out
also that even the genealogical chart sent by the Marquis de Saint-
Pierre (through is cousin Régis de Saint-Pierre) does start with their
first proven ancestor Raoul Bouchard, seigneur de Meherenc
(1328/1372).
Keep in mind that french noble families, apart and sometimes beside
from their proven genealogy, like to cultivate a certain myth of their
origin. Certain will "claim" a descent from a high born princess who
elopte with a petty night, others like the La Rochefoucauld would be
descendants of the mermaid Melusine, the Rohan from semi-mythical
celtic rulers kings Arthur and Conon Meriadec, and our Meherenc from a
knight who saved the king at Bouvines (one of too many). Most ancient
families in Normandie like to believe that they are descended from
viking compagnions of Rollo. And the list is endless... It is a part
of the ethos of a being a french noble. It is not to be taken
seriously. Every educated frenchman knows that those "claim" are only
charming tales to be transmitted to the next generation with a grin.
May I suggest also that calling "cousin Henri" the Comte de Saint-
Pierre, with which you share a commun ancestor in mid-XVth century
(Guillaume I and Marguerite de la Haye du Bouillon married in 1445),
is a best naive and might be found ridiculous.
Please be persuaded that those considerations were kindly meant.
Jean Bunot
Denis Beauregard
Bouchard est aussi un pr�nom en plus d'�tre un nom de famille.
Or, par le plus grand des hasards, M�h�renc comme nom de famille
appara�t � l'�poque o� la France adopte les noms de famille
h�ritables.
Si je regarde par exemple les noms des �v�ques de Normandie
(Annuaire historique de France, 1849, Gallica N0203442), le
dernier �v�que sans nom de famille est :
Rouen : Maurice, 1231-1235
Bayeux : Gui, 1241-1260
Avranches : Guillaume, 1257-1258
�vreux : Luc, 1203-1220
S�ez : Hugues 1228-1240
Lisieux : Arnoul, 1141-1181
Coutances : Vivien, 1202-1208
Par la suite, il est impossible de savoir si un nom de famille est
h�ritable ou pas, si c'est le nom d'une seigneurie ou un surnom
personnel ou encore le lieu d'origine. Cela indique tout
simplement que vers 1260, tous les �v�ques de Normandie ont ce qui
ressemble � un nom de famille.
La plus ancienne trace continue des M�h�renc est celle de
Raoul Bouchard, seigneur de M�h�renc � Tr�vi�res (1328/1372)
C'est apr�s l'�poque o� la Normandie a g�n�ralis� les noms de famille,
donc il doit s'agir d'un nom de famille, m�me s'il est probablement
utilis� depuis seulement 2 ou 3 g�n�rations si l'anoblissement est
r�cent. Il reste une faible possibilit� pour que Bouchard soit un
pr�nom comme on le voit dans d'autres familles et qu'on ait en fait :
1024. Raoul Bouchard, seigneur de M�h�renc � Tr�vi�res (1328/1372)
512. Renouf Bouchard de Meherenc, sgr des Londes � Tr�vi�res
(1372/1406)
256. Richard Bouchard de Meherenc, sgr des Londes (1406/1411)
128. Guillaume Ier de M�h�renc, seigneur des Londes (1413/1453/+ 1463)
soit une lign�e de M�n�renc avec comme pr�noms
1024. Raoul Bouchard
512. Renouf Bouchard
256. Richard Bouchard
128. Guillaume
En fait, faute de documents, il est impossible de savoir quelle est
la r�alit� avant 1328. Ce n'est pas une raison pour inventer la
r�alit� qui nous pla�t...
Bob Turcott
Jean,
In terms of the works from pasteur Vatinel I have provided that very paper to you to aid in the research effort, you simply cannot deny that i have been very helpfull. as for calling Henri a cousin well that will be between me and Henri himself. I appreciate you pointing this out to me and perhaps in a very kind way on this very newsgroup will not refer Henri as cousin. with this said lets move on to more positive horizons.
In a very realistic sense every man living is a cousin even every woman !!! in fact the human genome project prooves that every single man and woman alive shares one common ancestor they are referred to as scientific Adam and sceintific eve, so everyone alive is a cousin hey you dont have to take my word for it just take a peek at the human genome project and you will see exactly what I am talking about.
now I will continue to share what information I get on Meherenc on this news group, even though we cant proove some of these things it is always good to know that we at least examine it and be very open minded. I appreciate your efforts and as always share what I find with you some of it will be able to be proven while others simply cannot and there is nothing wrong with that I am very confident that there is much more to be discovered with this ancestry of Meherenc.
with kind regards Bob Turcott
_________________________________________________________________
Get your vacation photos on your phone!
http://windowsliveformobile.com/en-us/photos/default.aspx?&OCID=0809TL-HM
Bob Turcott
Jean,
this is what Henri is looking into, I agree with you but lets see what happens
and the Meherenc were not only protestants but also catholic, this is what Henri has to say right now, we may not be aboe to proove it but I will refer to it as an unproven family tradition...
We have tracked the MEHERENC falilly in France, back to the battle of BOUVINES - 27 July 1214 - when a knight of MEHERENC ( already in nobility ) did defend and save the life ot the king Philippe - Auguste
I have found some MEHERENC in Oslo, Norway and also
van Meheren in Holland
von Meherenc in Denmark, which we met
von Meherenc in Oslo Norway
The familly tradition says that a Meherenc came with the Vikings and was boat master.
We know that some Meherenc, in France, were protestants and upon the cancelation of the Nantes édict by King LOUS XIV some returned to catholicity and others did quit France and became van and von Meherenc according the countries in which they settled.
I intend to make ADN research with the Norwegian Meherenc who's family did not quit Norway - Sweden kingdom at that time. -
We, the MEHERENC de SAINT PI3ERRE, the only Méhérenc left now we are among the 30 oldest French families.and if our Viking connection is exact we would the be in the 10 oldest French families.
We will keep you informed of our finfings
Now there are no other MEHERENC than our family: de MEHERENC de SAINT PIERRE
> >
> Keep in mind that french noble families, apart and sometimes beside
> from their proven genealogy, like to cultivate a certain myth of their
> origin. Certain will "claim" a descent from a high born princess who
> elopte with a petty night, others like the La Rochefoucauld would be
> descendants of the mermaid Melusine, the Rohan from semi-mythical
> celtic rulers kings Arthur and Conon Meriadec, and our Meherenc from a
> knight who saved the king at Bouvines (one of too many). Most ancient
> families in Normandie like to believe that they are descended from
> viking compagnions of Rollo. And the list is endless... It is a part
> of the ethos of a being a french noble. It is not to be taken
> seriously. Every educated frenchman knows that those "claim" are only
> charming tales to be transmitted to the next generation with a grin.
>
_________________________________________________________________
WJho...@aol.com
What this is, is a modern assumption of a modern researcher, not an ancient
tradition passed down for hundreds of years.
If it were an ancient family tradition, than it would appear in works on
the family, which it doesn't.
Will Johnson
In a message dated 8/6/2009 1:14:01 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
Bob Turcott
Jean:
somtimes I get a little confused in not understanding if you are trying to
make me a better researcher or are you trying to insult me it is words or statements
that you make referance to as such like this :
"Every educated frenchman knows that those "claim" are only
charming tales to be transmitted to the next generation with a grin."
and then statements like this:
"Very serious french genealogists, like Jean-Jacques Bréguet and
Laurent Rousselle (both specialists in Basse-Normandie nobility) and
also le pasteur Vatinel, the acknowledged specialist in protestant
normandie genealogy, have all carefully look into that mater and have
not found anything to substantiate and earlier origin."
Yet you seem to have this notion as I so faithfully want to point out is simply this:
#1 the works of Jean-Jacques Bréguet were given to me (Bob Turcott) directly from him and I faithfully forwarded this specific paper to you for your review. Did I not please further educate me and further entertain me more if I was not serious I would not have been smart enough to contact Jean-Jacques Bréguet directly for such work.
#2 The works of le pasteur Vatinel were given to me (Bob Turcott) directly from him and I faithfully forwarded this specific paper to you for your review furthermore if I was not serious I would not have been smart enough to contact le pasteur Vatinel for such work.
In closing I suggest you take a brief moment and thank me for advancing your research of Meherenc. While I appreciate some fine pointers for good examination but you must show some level of thankfullness and perhaps give me some credit.
Bob T.
Bob Turcott
and a lecture about normandy!!!
Normandy
In the 1st century BC, Normandy saw one of its first great invasions by the Romans. The area was an important part of the Holy Roman Empire until the 4th century. In the 9th century, the area received its name of Normandy after it was raided by the Vikings, or Norsemen, from whom it took its name.
When Rollo, Earl of Orkney, invaded the territory in 911, he forced the French King, Charles III, or Charles the Simple, to concede Normandy. Rollo, then, became the first Duke of Normandy. In 1066, William, a descendant of Rollo, conquered England, thereby initiating England's claims to the area. The region passed into the royal dynasty of Plantagenet, in the 12th century, and England expanded its claims to continental land when Henry II of England, Duke of Normandy, married Eleanor of Aquitaine in 1152.
The failure of Philippe Auguste of France to gain possession of Normandy from the English Plantagenets in the following years became one of the primary causes of the Hundred Years War. The people and landscape of Normandy suffered dearly from this long conflict. Normandy was, however, finally secured by France in 1450 and became a semi-autonomous state. Normandy was again the site of heavy fighting in the twentieth century as the Allied forces invaded the region in 1944.
very logical sense Mr Bunot find very true and for very reasoning is as following in which make perfect sense!!!
And now I bring to the Table Joachim de Meherenc, sieur de La Poterie !!! Armes des Meherenc : d'urgent au chef d'azur chargé d'une coquille d'argent.
Ok now ya got me goin!! Her we go!!
Joachim de Meherenc, sieur de La Poterie, à Marguerin de Grésille, sieur d'Ouilly et du Rocher, le fief d'Épinouze fut de nouveau vendu, le 4 août 1617, par Jacob de Grésille à Léonard l'oret, sieur de La Jozerie!!!!!pour la somme de 1,800 livres, et à la charge de payer 108 sols de rente à la seigneurie de Condé. Enfin, revenu une seconde fois à la maison de Grésille, il fut réuni et incorporé, en 1644, au fief de St.-Sauveur.
Dans un aveu rendu, en 1602, à Nicolas de Pellevé, seigneur de Condé, au droit d'Isabeau de Rohan, nous voyons que les vassaux du fief d'Épinouze étaient sujets à la haute et moyenne
http://books.google.com/books?id=_fRAAAAAcAAJ&lpg=PA153&ots=1IEh8lnOzZ&dq=Joachim+de+Meherenc%2C+sieur+de+La+Poterie&pg=PA152#v=onepage&q=Joachim%20de%20Meherenc,%20sieur%20de%20La%20Poterie&f=false
> From: denis.b-at-f...@fr.invalid
> Subject: Re: de Meherenc de Motmirel (update)
> Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 15:25:50 -0400
> To: gen-me...@rootsweb.com
>
> Un truc intéressant que je remarque sur cette famille, c'est que
> Bouchard est aussi un prénom en plus d'être un nom de famille.
>
> Or, par le plus grand des hasards, Méhérenc comme nom de famille
> apparaît à l'époque où la France adopte les noms de famille
> héritables.
>
> Si je regarde par exemple les noms des évêques de Normandie
> (Annuaire historique de France, 1849, Gallica N0203442), le
> dernier évêque sans nom de famille est :
>
> Rouen : Maurice, 1231-1235
> Bayeux : Gui, 1241-1260
> Avranches : Guillaume, 1257-1258
> Évreux : Luc, 1203-1220
> Séez : Hugues 1228-1240
> Lisieux : Arnoul, 1141-1181
> Coutances : Vivien, 1202-1208
>
> Par la suite, il est impossible de savoir si un nom de famille est
> héritable ou pas, si c'est le nom d'une seigneurie ou un surnom
> personnel ou encore le lieu d'origine. Cela indique tout
> simplement que vers 1260, tous les évêques de Normandie ont ce qui
> ressemble à un nom de famille.
>
> La plus ancienne trace continue des Méhérenc est celle de
>
> Raoul Bouchard, seigneur de Méhérenc à Trévières (1328/1372)
>
> C'est après l'époque où la Normandie a généralisé les noms de famille,
> donc il doit s'agir d'un nom de famille, même s'il est probablement
> utilisé depuis seulement 2 ou 3 générations si l'anoblissement est
> récent. Il reste une faible possibilité pour que Bouchard soit un
> prénom comme on le voit dans d'autres familles et qu'on ait en fait :
>
> 1024. Raoul Bouchard, seigneur de Méhérenc à Trévières (1328/1372)
> 512. Renouf Bouchard de Meherenc, sgr des Londes à Trévières
> (1372/1406)
> 256. Richard Bouchard de Meherenc, sgr des Londes (1406/1411)
> 128. Guillaume Ier de Méhérenc, seigneur des Londes (1413/1453/+ 1463)
>
> soit une lignée de Ménérenc avec comme prénoms
>
> 1024. Raoul Bouchard
> 512. Renouf Bouchard
> 256. Richard Bouchard
> 128. Guillaume
>
> En fait, faute de documents, il est impossible de savoir quelle est
> la réalité avant 1328. Ce n'est pas une raison pour inventer la
> réalité qui nous plaît...
>
>
> Denis
>
> --
> Denis Beauregard - généalogiste émérite (FQSG)
> Les Français d'Amérique du Nord - www.francogene.com/genealogie--quebec/
> French in North America before 1722 - www.francogene.com/quebec--genealogy/
> Sur cédérom à 1770 - On CD-ROM to 1770
>
> -------------------------------
> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to GEN-MEDIEV...@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message
_________________________________________________________________
Hotmail has tools for the New Busy. Search, chat and e-mail from your inbox.
http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?ocid=PID28326::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:042010_1
Bob Turcott
Jean and a lecture about normandy!!!
Normandy
In the 1st century BC, Normandy saw one of its first great invasions by the Romans. The area was an important part of the Holy Roman Empire until the 4th century. In the 9th century, the area received its name of Normandy after it was raided by the Vikings, or Norsemen, from whom it took its name.
When Rollo, Earl of Orkney, invaded the territory in 911, he forced the French King, Charles III, or Charles the Simple, to concede Normandy. Rollo, then, became the first Duke of Normandy. In 1066, William, a descendant of Rollo, conquered England, thereby initiating England's claims to the area. The region passed into the royal dynasty of Plantagenet, in the 12th century, and England expanded its claims to continental land when Henry II of England, Duke of Normandy, married Eleanor of Aquitaine in 1152.
The failure of Philippe Auguste of France to gain possession of Normandy from the English Plantagenets in the following years became one of the primary causes of the Hundred Years War. The people and landscape of Normandy suffered dearly from this long conflict. Normandy was, however, finally secured by France in 1450 and became a semi-autonomous state. Normandy was again the site of heavy fighting in the twentieth century as the Allied forces invaded the region in 1944.
very logical sense Mr Bunot find very true and for very reasoning is as following in which make perfect sense!!!
And now I bring to the Table Joachim de Meherenc, sieur de La Poterie !!! Armes des Meherenc : d'urgent au chef d'azur chargé d'une coquille d'argent.
Ok now ya got me goin!! Her we go!!
Joachim de Meherenc, sieur de La Poterie, à Marguerin de Grésille, sieur d'Ouilly et du Rocher, le fief d'Épinouze fut de nouveau vendu, le 4 août 1617, par Jacob de Grésille à Léonard l'oret, sieur de La Jozerie!!!!!pour la somme de 1,800 livres, et à la charge de payer 108 sols de rente à la seigneurie de Condé. Enfin, revenu une seconde fois à la maison de Grésille, il fut réuni et incorporé, en 1644, au fief de St.-Sauveur.
Dans un aveu rendu, en 1602, à Nicolas de Pellevé, seigneur de Condé, au droit d'Isabeau de Rohan, nous voyons que les vassaux du fief d'Épinouze étaient sujets à la haute et moyenne
http://books.google.com/books?id=_fRAAAAAcAAJ&lpg=PA153&ots=1IEh8lnOzZ&dq=Joachim+de+Meherenc%2C+sieur+de+La+Poterie&pg=PA152#v=onepage&q=Joachim%20de%20Meherenc,%20sieur%20de%20La%20Poterie&f=false
Now you Mention something about my kinship to the aforementioned family, I suggest
you go back to school and learn what nobility is and its acceptance. I also might add that the very family you speak of is highly insulted by your remark and to be quite frank
they were quite surprised of your jealousy and stupidity for claiming to be such a brilliant man!!! The very fact of the matter is my ancestry starts with this family in mid 1700's none the less what does that matter? even one drop of blood is one drop of blood remember that!! I also might add you need to be very carefull whom you insult because by virtue of your remark you have insulted the family in question and they have as I can assure you have seen every single stupid meaningless post you have made in regards mixed with good research ill give you that but not claiming to give the very credit where do. You know right perectly well I have gotten you aqainted with Jean-Jacques Bréguet and Patuer Vatinel, so tell me Mr Bunot dont downgrade your brilliant research with snarky remarks and to simply give credit where do of course!!!!! You are being watched every single sentence you poste here by the noble family in question so I suggest and consider you realize whos watching you here!!
> -------------------------------
> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to GEN-MEDIEV...@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message
_________________________________________________________________
The New Busy is not the old busy. Search, chat and e-mail from your inbox.
http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?ocid=PID28326::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:042010_3
Bob Turcott
From: bobtu...@msn.com
To: magnu...@yahoo.com; gen-me...@rootsweb.com
Subject: RE: de Meherenc de Motmirel (update)
Date: Tue, 25 May 2010 03:52:18 +0000
Jean and a lecture about normandy!!!
Normandy
In the 1st century BC, Normandy saw one of its first great invasions by the Romans. The area was an important part of the Holy Roman Empire until the 4th century. In the 9th century, the area received its name of Normandy after it was raided by the Vikings, or Norsemen, from whom it took its name.
When Rollo, Earl of Orkney, invaded the territory in 911, he forced the French King, Charles III, or Charles the Simple, to concede Normandy. Rollo, then, became the first Duke of Normandy. In 1066, William, a descendant of Rollo, conquered England, thereby initiating England's claims to the area. The region passed into the royal dynasty of Plantagenet, in the 12th century, and England expanded its claims to continental land when Henry II of England, Duke of Normandy, married Eleanor of Aquitaine in 1152.
The failure of Philippe Auguste of France to gain possession of Normandy from the English Plantagenets in the following years became one of the primary causes of the Hundred Years War. The people and landscape of Normandy suffered dearly from this long conflict. Normandy was, however, finally secured by France in 1450 and became a semi-autonomous state. Normandy was again the site of heavy fighting in the twentieth century as the Allied forces invaded the region in 1944.
very logical sense Mr Bunot find very true and for very reasoning is as following in which make perfect sense!!!
And now I bring to the Table Joachim de Meherenc, sieur de La Poterie !!! Armes des Meherenc : d'urgent au chef d'azur charg�ｿｽ d'une coquille d'argent.
Ok now ya got me goin!! Her we go!!
Joachim de Meherenc, sieur de La Poterie, �ｿｽ Marguerin de Gr�ｿｽsille, sieur d'Ouilly et du Rocher, le fief d'�ｿｽpinouze fut de nouveau vendu, le 4 ao�ｿｽt 1617, par Jacob de Gr�ｿｽsille �ｿｽ L�ｿｽonard l'oret, sieur de La Jozerie!!!!!pour la somme de 1,800 livres, et �ｿｽ la charge de payer 108 sols de rente �ｿｽ la seigneurie de Cond�ｿｽ. Enfin, revenu une seconde fois �ｿｽ la maison de Gr�ｿｽsille, il fut r�ｿｽuni et incorpor�ｿｽ, en 1644, au fief de St.-Sauveur.
Dans un aveu rendu, en 1602, �ｿｽ Nicolas de Pellev�ｿｽ, seigneur de Cond�ｿｽ, au droit d'Isabeau de Rohan, nous voyons que les vassaux du fief d'�ｿｽpinouze �ｿｽtaient sujets �ｿｽ la haute et moyenne
http://books.google.com/books?id=_fRAAAAAcAAJ&lpg=PA153&ots=1IEh8lnOzZ&dq=Joachim+de+Meherenc%2C+sieur+de+La+Poterie&pg=PA152#v=onepage&q=Joachim%20de%20Meherenc,%20sieur%20de%20La%20Poterie&f=false
Now you Mention something about my kinship to the aforementioned family, I suggest
you go back to school and learn what nobility is and its acceptance. I also might add that the very family you speak of is highly insulted by your remark and to be quite frank
they were quite surprised of your jealousy and stupidity for claiming to be such a brilliant man!!! The very fact of the matter is my ancestry starts with this family in mid 1700's none the less what does that matter? even one drop of blood is one drop of blood remember that!! I also might add you need to be very carefull whom you insult because by virtue of your remark you have insulted the family in question and they have as I can assure you have seen every single stupid meaningless post you have made in regards mixed with good research ill give you that but not claiming to give the very credit where do. You know right perectly well I have gotten you aqainted with Jean-Jacques Br�ｿｽguet and Patuer Vatinel, so tell me Mr Bunot dont downgrade your brilliant research with snarky remarks and to simply give credit where do of course!!!!! You are being watched every single sentence you poste here by the noble family in question so I suggest and consider you realize whos watching you here!!
> From: magnu...@yahoo.com
> Subject: Re: de Meherenc de Motmirel (update)
> Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 10:35:08 -0700
> To: gen-me...@rootsweb.com
>
> Bob :
>
> The family as been studied. I am afraid there is nothing historical to
> be found will a level of proof that would be acceptable in the context
> of serious genealogical works/studies. The documents are simply
> lacking. If the Meherenc had in their possession any such document
> prooving their family go back to the XIIIe century or earlier, they
> would certainely have produced that crucial evidence when successively
> prooving their nobility in front of the kings commissionners for the
> Maintenues de Noblesse where they were anyway recognized by the French
> crown as belonging to the "Noblesse d'ancienne extraction" and that is
> good enough.
>
> Very serious french genealogists, like Jean-Jacques Br�ｿｽguet and
> Laurent Rousselle (both specialists in Basse-Normandie nobility) and
> also le pasteur Vatinel, the acknowledged specialist in protestant
> normandie genealogy, have all carefully look into that mater and have
> not found anything to substantiate and earlier origin. May I point out
> also that even the genealogical chart sent by the Marquis de Saint-
> Pierre (through is cousin R�ｿｽgis de Saint-Pierre) does start with their
> first proven ancestor Raoul Bouchard, seigneur de Meherenc
> (1328/1372).
>
> Keep in mind that french noble families, apart and sometimes beside
> from their proven genealogy, like to cultivate a certain myth of their
> origin. Certain will "claim" a descent from a high born princess who
> elopte with a petty night, others like the La Rochefoucauld would be
> descendants of the mermaid Melusine, the Rohan from semi-mythical
> celtic rulers kings Arthur and Conon Meriadec, and our Meherenc from a
> knight who saved the king at Bouvines (one of too many). Most ancient
> families in Normandie like to believe that they are descended from
> viking compagnions of Rollo. And the list is endless... It is a part
> of the ethos of a being a french noble. It is not to be taken
> seriously. Every educated frenchman knows that those "claim" are only
> charming tales to be transmitted to the next generation with a grin.
>
> May I suggest also that calling "cousin Henri" the Comte de Saint-
> Pierre, with which you share a commun ancestor in mid-XVth century
> (Guillaume I and Marguerite de la Haye du Bouillon married in 1445),
> is a best naive and might be found ridiculous.
>
> Please be persuaded that those considerations were kindly meant.
>
> Jean Bunot
>
>
>
> -------------------------------
> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to GEN-MEDIEV...@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message
The New Busy is not the old busy. Search, chat and e-mail from your inbox. Get started.
_________________________________________________________________
The New Busy think 9 to 5 is a cute idea. Combine multiple calendars with Hotmail.
http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?tile=multicalendar&ocid=PID28326::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:042010_5