James, son of Henry Newmarch
The...@aol.com
Dear Gordon,
Yes, James de Novo Mercato and James de Newmarch (Neumarche) are one and
the same. See below.
Do you have many Moels in your ancestry? Let me know if there is more
detail you need (re: Moels, Newmarch or other related families).
Hope this is helpful.
John *
___________________
1 James de Newmarch
----------------------------------------
Death: bef 1218[1]
Father: William de Newmarch (-<1189)
of Cadbury, Somerset[2]
succeeded his brother Henry, paying 200 marks for livery of his
lands, 1206 (additional £137 13s for his relief, 1213)[1]
'In 1208/9 James de Novo Mercato held half a fee of the bishop [of
Worcester] in Aust and half in Gotherington, Gloucestershire (Fees,
38-39).' DD, p. 616[3]
Spouse: Maud[1]
Children: Isabel
Hawise
1.1 Isabel de Newmarch
----------------------------------------
(elder) daughter and coheiress[2],[3]
Spouse: Ralph Russel
Death: ca 1250[4]
1.2 Hawise de Newmarch[2]
----------------------------------------
younger daughter and coheiress[2]
she m. 1stly John de Boterel (elsewhere Botreaux),
2ndly Nicholas de Moels[4]
Spouse: Nicholas de Moels, of Cadbury, Somerset (de jure uxoris)
Death: aft 1263[2],[4]
Father: de Moels
Marr: aft Mar 1230[2]
Children: James (-<1252)
Roger (-<1295)
Agnes
Maud
1.2.1 James de Moels
----------------------------------------
Death: bef 17 Mar 1252, d.v.p. (d.s.p.)[2]
1.2.2 Roger de Moels
----------------------------------------
Death: bef 17 Jun 1295[2]
of Cadbury, Somerset and King's Carswell, Devon
adherent of the King against Simon de Montfort[2]
' Roger de Moles ', knight
: his arms are recorded ca. 1285 as
' Argent two bars gules and in chief three torteaux '
(St. George's Roll E89[5])
'a household knight' of King Edward I [Prestwich, p. 413]
appointed marshal of the royal army in Wales, 1294 (source of
discontent of Roger le Bigod, Earl of Norfolk and hereditary
Marshal, with King Edward I)[6]
Children: John (<1270-1310)
1.2.3 Agnes de Moels
----------------------------------------
2nd wife [see CP Vol IX -Moels, p. 4][2]
'she had the manor of Woodlands, co. Dorset in free marriage'
(CP Vol II -Brewes, p. 302n)[2]
Spouse: Sir William de Braose
Death: bef 6 Jan 1290[2]
Birth: bef 15 Jul 1224[7]
Father: John de Braose (~1197-<1232)
Mother: Margaret verch Llywelyn
Children: Giles
1.2.4 Maud de Moels[2]
----------------------------------------
cf. Sanders, p. 84 (note 7)[4]
Spouse: Richard de Urtiaco
Father: Henry de Urtiaco (-1242)
Mother: Sabina Revel (-1254)
Children: Henry (ca1252-1321)
1. "The Baronage of England," William Dugdale, Norroy King of Arms,
Tho. Newcomb [reprint Georg Verlag, New York], London, 1675
[reprint New York, 1977].
2. "The Complete Peerage," G. E. Cokayne, 1910 -
The Complete Peerage of England Scotland Ireland Great Britain
and the United Kingdom.
3. "Domesday Descendants," K. S. B. Keats-Rohan, The Boydell Press,
Woodbridge, 2002, cited by Rosie Bevan, 'Re: de Stuteville' Jul 2,
2002, p. 723 (Osmund de Stuteville)
4. "English Baronies: A Study of Their Origin and Descent, 1086-1327,"
I. J. Sanders, Oxford: Clarendon Press, 1960.
5. Brian Timms, "St George's Roll," College of Arms, London, MS Vincent
164 ff 1-21b., http://www.briantimms.com/rolls/
Dated c1285. Painted, containing 677 shields., Source: Gerard
J Brault, Rolls of Arms of Edward I, Boydell & Brewer, 1997.
6. "Edward I," Michael Prestwich, New Haven: Yale University Press,
1997 [in England, originally 1988 -Methuen], Yale English Monarchs
series.
7. Paul C. Reed, FASG, "Llywelyn's Daughter Margaret and the de Braose
Family," Oct 3, 1999, GEN-MED...@rootsweb.com, cites CPR
(Calendar of Patent Rolls) 1216-25, p. 134 re: John de Braose being
'of age' Jan. 1218;, _Brut y Tywysogyon or The Chronicle of the
Princes ..._ (Roll Series, v.17: ed. Rev. John Williams ab Ithel)
______________________
* John P. Ravilious
The...@aol.com
Dear Gordon, et al.,
One issue not pointed out in my prior post:
James de Newmarch was son of William de Newmarch, NOT of Henry de
Newmarch as given in DD. Henry de Newmarch was the elder son of William, and was
succeeded by his younger brother James.
Rosie, sorry: one more for the DD corrections list.
Cheers,
John *
* John P. Ravilious
Rosie Bevan
I note Sanders p. 68 says that James succeeded his brother William in 1204
and their father was Henry de Newmarche, d.1186.
Do you have anything which disproves this?
Cheers
Rosie
The...@aol.com
Dear Rosie,
The basis of my construction of the Newmarch family is from CP,
with additional details from Dugdale's Baronage of England. I show
re: James de Newmarch, that he
'succeeded his brother Henry, paying 200 marks for
livery of his lands, 1206 (additional £137 13s for
his relief, 1213)'
The 200 mks agrees with the note in Sanders (p. 68 note (4) ) as
to amount, but other than the statement in Sanders that "William,
son of Henry, d.s.p. 1204 being followed by his brother James" we
do not know the details (if given) of the succession as stated in
the original source (either a Pipe Roll or Fees entry).
From the pedigree given below, you can see I show two Henrys:
one, the son of Mabel/Mabilia de Ballon (not named in Sanders),
whom I show died 'after 1165' [1], and the other I show as a
grandson of the first (and son of William), who 'd.s.p. bef 1206'
and was succeeded by his brother James.
I will see if I can find my notes from Dugdale (pp. 435-6);
hopefully the cites he provides are a little more exact than
references to Glover's collection. The chronology from Winebald
de Ballon to the Moels family appears to permit either construction,
although the '2nd Henry' version stretches the generations a little
less: an exact and final determination (Sanders vs. myself) will
likely require reference to the Pipe Rolls and other sources cited.
Cheers,
John *
NOTES
[1] Sources I show: CP IX:4n ; also Dugdale, Baronage [as
to date of fine].
_______________________________________
1 Winebald de Ballon
----------------------------------------
Death: aft 1125[1]
Father: NN de Ballon
of Cadbury, Somerset & c.[2]
received a lordship at Caerleon from King William II, ca. 1088[3]
In 1092, 'Winebald de Baalum gave Bridesthorne to the monks of
Bermondsey. ' [Annales Monastici][4],[1]
made further gifts of land to the monastery of St. Peters at
Gloucester, 1126 [Dugdale: Baalun, p. 453][1]
Spouse: Elizabeth[2]
Children: Mabilia
Roger (->1125)
Milo
1.1 Mabilia de Ballon
----------------------------------------
daughter and heiress (in her issue)
'Henry's mother was doubtless Mabilia, the daughter who conceded
a gift of her father Winebald to Bermondsey
(BL Harley 4757, fol. 7). '[2]
Spouse: William de Newmarch
Children: Henry (->1165)
1.1.1 Henry de Newmarch
----------------------------------------
Death: aft 1165[5],[1],[6]
of Cadbury, Somerset
'...Henr(ico) de Nouomercato,..' witness to charter of King
Stephen ca. 1148-1154 [Canterbury Cathedral Library, MS Chartae
Antiquae F83 (Faversham cartulary roll) ][7]
heir of his Ballon uncle in Somerset[2]
held the manor of Cadbury at the assize of 1166[2]
Dugdale states that,
' in 12 Hen. 2 [1166] upon the affeffment of the aid for marrying
the Kings Daughter, certified his Knights Fees to be in number
fixteen, an half, two thirds, and two fifth parts: for which in
14 Hen. 2. (upon collection of that Aid) he paid eleven pounds
fourteen fhillings and two pence.'[1]
NOTE: At Easter 1271, Roger de Moels
'did homage to the Abbot of Glastonbury for fees held in 1189
by Henry de Newmarch..' [CP Vol. IX - Moels, p. 4 note e ][5],[1]
- probably reference to Henry son of William, son of Henry
[placed by Sanders as Henry, father of William and James]
Spouse: NN
Children: William (-<1189)
Maud (->1225)
1.1.1.1 William de Newmarch
----------------------------------------
Death: bef 1189[1]
of Cadbury, Somerset
held lands in Horsington, Somerset: a grant dated ca. 1160,
' Will de Novo March' to Thom.Tragin: ½ hide in Horsenton.'
- PRO, Somerset Archive and Record Service: Somerset Archaeological
and Natural History Society Collection [ DD\SAS\C/795/PD/1][8]
Children: Henry (-<1206)
James (-<1218)
1.1.1.1.1 Henry de Newmarch[1]
----------------------------------------
Death: bef 1206, d.s.p.[1]
of Cadbury, Somerset & c.
succeeded by his brother James[1]
evidently some confusion with his grandfather Henry
[see Dugdale, pp. 435-436][1]
1.1.1.1.2 James de Newmarch
----------------------------------------
Death: bef 1218[1]
of Cadbury, Somerset[5]
succeeded his brother Henry, paying 200 marks for livery of his
lands, 1206 (additional £137 13s for his relief, 1213)[1]
'In 1208/9 James de Novo Mercato held half a fee of the bishop [of
Worcester] in Aust and half in Gotherington, Gloucestershire (Fees,
38-39).' DD, p. 616[9]
Spouse: Maud[1]
Children: Isabel
Hawise
1.1.1.1.2.1 Hawise de Newmarch[5]
----------------------------------------
younger daughter and coheiress[5]
re: her husband, Nicholas de Moels:
he acquired Cadbury, Somerset and other manors de jure uxoris[5]
seneschal of Gascony, 1243
supporter of King Henry III against de Montfort[5]
Sheriff of Yorkshire, 1239-42 (joint)
' In 1242 John de Tudenham held half a fee in Stanton Tudenham, in
Churchstanton parish and Hemyock hundred from Nicholas de Molis,
who held it of the honor of Caerleon (Fees, p794).'[10]
she m. 1stly John de Boterel (elsewhere de Botreaux),
2ndly Nicholas de Moels[6]
Spouse: Nicholas de Moels
Death: aft 1263[5],[6]
Father: de Moels
Marr: aft Mar 1230[5]
Children: James (-<1252)
Roger (-<1295)
Agnes
Maud
1.1.1.2 Maud de Newmarch
----------------------------------------
Death: aft 1225[5]
identified in CP as daughter of 'Henry de Neufmarche'
[Vol VIII-Lovel, p. 202][5]
she had land in Dunkerton, Somerset as her maritagium[5]
In 1207,
'She agreed with her husband's brother [Henry Lovel] and heir
to accept the manor of Hunwick as her whole dower, surrendering
all claim on the property in Scotland'
[CP Vol. VIII, p. 202 note h ][5]
Spouse: Ralph Lovel of Castle Cary, Somerset
Death: bef 1208, d.s.p.[5]
Father: Henry Lovel (-<1195)
Mother: Alice de Cary (->1211)
1.2 Roger de Ballon
----------------------------------------
Death: aft 1125[1]
of Cadbury, Somerset & c.
heir to his father; succeeded by either brother (Milo) or nephew,
Henry de Newmarch[2]
consented to grants by his father to the monastery of St. Peter at
Gloucester, 1126[1]
1st husband of Hawise de Gournay
~ she m. 2ndly Robert fitz Robert fitz Harding, aka Robert de
Ghent (DD, p. 303[9])
Spouse: Hawise de Gournay
Children: Roger (-<1166)
Hamelin (-<1166)
Arnald (-<1166)
1.2.1 Roger de Ballon[9]
----------------------------------------
Death: bef 1166, d.s.p.[11]
1.2.2 Hamelin de Ballon[9]
----------------------------------------
Death: bef 1166, d.s.p.[11]
1.2.3 Arnald de Ballon[9]
----------------------------------------
Death: bef 1166, d.s.p.[11]
1.3 Milo de Ballon[2]
----------------------------------------
1. "The Baronage of England," William Dugdale, Norroy King of Arms,
Tho. Newcomb [reprint Georg Verlag, New York], London, 1675
[reprint New York, 1977].
2. K. S. B. Keats-Rohan, "Additions and Corrections to Sanders’s
Baronies Prosopon, Number 11 (July 2000),"
www.linacre.ox.ac.uk/research/Prosop
David E. Thornton, editor, Prosopon 11 (July 2000), The Unit for
Prosopographic Research, Linacre College, Oxford, Little Easton
North Cadbury (p. 68), emendations to Ian Sander's work,
English Baronies (1960).
3. "William Rufus," Frank Barlow, Univ of California Press (English
Monarchs Series), 1983.
4. "Annales Monastici," www.thouposbrook.com
extracted 29 January 2002, 1092 citation from the Annales
Monastici [re: Winebald de Ballon].
5. "The Complete Peerage," G. E. Cokayne, 1910 -
The Complete Peerage of England Scotland Ireland Great Britain
and the United Kingdom.
6. "English Baronies: A Study of Their Origin and Descent, 1086-1327,"
I. J. Sanders, Oxford: Clarendon Press, 1960.
7. Nicholas Vincent, "New Charters of King Stephen with Some
Reflections upon the Royal Forests During the Anarchy," The
English Historical Review, Feb. 1999, cites charters of reign
of King Stephen not previously identified, or published: incl.
Confirmation of gifts made by Earl William de Warenne,
PRO, E 159/99 (Memoranda Roll, 18 Edward II), m.149d, recited
before the Exchequer.
8. "Public Record Office Archives," http://www.a2a.pro.gov.uk/
extracted 7 October, 2002
9. "Domesday Descendants," K. S. B. Keats-Rohan, The Boydell Press,
Woodbridge, 2002
full title: Domesday Descendants: A Prosopography of Persons,
Occurring in English Documents 1066-1166: Pipe Rolls to Cartae
Baronum.
10. "Devon Manors: Tiverton Hundred,"
www.mortimer.co.uk/manors/hemyock.htm
extracted 30 April 2002.
11. "Foundation for Medieval Genealogy," Corrections to K S B
Keats-Rohan's, "Domesday Descendants",
http://fmg.ac/Projects/Domesday/
p.303 de Ballon, Roger - Rosie Bevan, 31 March 2003, citing
Sanders, p. 14. The heir of de Ballon was Newmarch of Cadbury
(not de Gournay of Beverstone).
* John P. Ravilious
Gordon Kirkemo
Thanks for your responses, and for your offer concerning the Moels. I do
have Moels in my line (and I sure there is a funny comment in there
somewhere-I just need a the right kind of trap to catch it). This is my
line sourced principally from CP Vol. VI and IX:
1a. Isabel Moels married William de Botreaux
1b. Muriel Moels married Thomas de Courtenay
2. John Moels married Joan Lovel
3. John de Moels married Maud de Grey
4. Roger de Moels married NN
5. Nicholas de Moels married Hawise de Newmarch
I am always interested in additional information, so I'd be delighted if you
have more to share beyond what is in CP. I note, in particular, that you
identify the father of Nicholas as NN de Moels. Do you have any interesting
leads as to his identity?
I note that Rosie's later response raises some question regarding the
Newmarch relationships of James, Henry, and William, and I saw your response
to her question. I lack sufficient knowledge to make a judgment regarding
the placing of fathers and sons. I trust the exchange between Rosie and you
(and others with relevant information) will help to create a consensus. I
thank all of you for your contributions to the issue.
Gordon
-----Original Message-----
From: The...@aol.com [mailto:The...@aol.com]
Sent: Sunday, September 28, 2003 8:13 PM
To: GEN-MED...@rootsweb.com
Subject: Re: James, son of Henry Newmarch
Sunday, 28 September, 2003
Dear Gordon,
Yes, James de Novo Mercato and James de Newmarch (Neumarche) are one and
the same. See below.
Do you have many Moels in your ancestry? Let me know if there is more
detail you need (re: Moels, Newmarch or other related families).
Hope this is helpful.
John *
___________________
1 James de Newmarch
- --------------------------------------
Death: bef 1218[1]
Father: William de Newmarch (-<1189)
of Cadbury, Somerset[2]
succeeded his brother Henry, paying 200 marks for livery of his
lands, 1206 (additional £137 13s for his relief, 1213)[1]
'In 1208/9 James de Novo Mercato held half a fee of the bishop [of
Worcester] in Aust and half in Gotherington, Gloucestershire (Fees,
38-39).' DD, p. 616[3]
Spouse: Maud[1]
Children: Isabel
Hawise
1.1 Isabel de Newmarch
- --------------------------------------
(elder) daughter and coheiress[2],[3]
Spouse: Ralph Russel
Death: ca 1250[4]
1.2 Hawise de Newmarch[2]
- --------------------------------------
younger daughter and coheiress[2]
she m. 1stly John de Boterel (elsewhere Botreaux),
2ndly Nicholas de Moels[4]
Spouse: Nicholas de Moels, of Cadbury, Somerset (de jure uxoris)
Death: aft 1263[2],[4]
Father: de Moels
Marr: aft Mar 1230[2]
Children: James (-<1252)
Roger (-<1295)
Agnes
Maud
1.2.1 James de Moels
- --------------------------------------
Death: bef 17 Mar 1252, d.v.p. (d.s.p.)[2]
1.2.2 Roger de Moels
- --------------------------------------
Death: bef 17 Jun 1295[2]
of Cadbury, Somerset and King's Carswell, Devon
adherent of the King against Simon de Montfort[2]
' Roger de Moles ', knight
: his arms are recorded ca. 1285 as
' Argent two bars gules and in chief three torteaux '
(St. George's Roll E89[5])
'a household knight' of King Edward I [Prestwich, p. 413]
appointed marshal of the royal army in Wales, 1294 (source of
discontent of Roger le Bigod, Earl of Norfolk and hereditary
Marshal, with King Edward I)[6]
Children: John (<1270-1310)
1.2.3 Agnes de Moels
- --------------------------------------
2nd wife [see CP Vol IX -Moels, p. 4][2]
'she had the manor of Woodlands, co. Dorset in free marriage'
(CP Vol II -Brewes, p. 302n)[2]
Spouse: Sir William de Braose
Death: bef 6 Jan 1290[2]
Birth: bef 15 Jul 1224[7]
Father: John de Braose (~1197-<1232)
Mother: Margaret verch Llywelyn
Children: Giles
1.2.4 Maud de Moels[2]
- --------------------------------------
cf. Sanders, p. 84 (note 7)[4]
Children: Henry (ca1252-1321)
______________________
* John P. Ravilious
______________________________
Doug Smith
> Monday, 29 September, 2003
>
>
> Dear Rosie,
>
> The basis of my construction of the Newmarch family is from CP,
> with additional details from Dugdale's Baronage of England. I show
> re: James de Newmarch, that he
>
> 'succeeded his brother Henry, paying 200 marks for
> livery of his lands, 1206 (additional £137 13s for
> his relief, 1213)'
>
> 1.2 Roger de Ballon
> ----------------------------------------
> Death: aft 1125[1]
>
> of Cadbury, Somerset & c.
>
> heir to his father; succeeded by either brother (Milo) or nephew,
> Henry de Newmarch[2]
>
> consented to grants by his father to the monastery of St. Peter at
> Gloucester, 1126[1]
>
> 1st husband of Hawise de Gournay
>
> ~ she m. 2ndly Robert fitz Robert fitz Harding, aka Robert de
> Ghent (DD, p. 303[9])
>
> Spouse: Hawise de Gournay
>
> Children: Roger (-<1166)
> Hamelin (-<1166)
> Arnald (-<1166)
>
You show the Roger above as a son of Winebald, but Domesday
Descendants (pps 302, 492) shows him as a son of Winebald's brother
Hamelin (based on my notes).
Both had sons Roger, but Hamelin's son was the one with descendants.
Can you explain your conclusion here please?
Doug
The...@aol.com
Dear Doug,
As indicated, my sources include K.S.B. Keats-Rohan, whose article
in Prosopon 11 ("Additions and Corrections to Sanders’s Baronies")
includes the following re: (North) Cadbury, Somerset:
" North Cadbury (p. 68)
Winebald de Ballon was father by his wife Elizabeth of
his successor Roger, another son Milo, and a daughter whose
son Henry de Neufmarché was his ultimate heir by 1166.
Henry's mother was doubtless Mabilia, the daughter who
conceded a gift of her father Winebald to Bermondsey
(BL Harley 4757, fol. 7). "
Rosie Bevan posted a "DD Correction" (and notation re: the
confusion) to SMG in March 2003; this can be found at Foundation
for Medieval Genealogy, detailed as follows:
" p.493 de Gurnai, Hadvisa; p.303 de Ballon, Roger
"Wife of Roger, son of Hamelin de Ballon".
"Son of Winebald de Ballon of Caerleon and Elizabeth. By his
wife Hawise de Gurnay he had issue three sons Roger, Hamelin
and Arnold".
There is a discrepancy over whose son Roger was.
Sanders p.68 indicates that Roger was son of Winebald, but if
Roger did father three sons by Hawise de Gurnay they must have
died without issue, for by 1166 Winebald's daughter Mabilia was
his eventual heir. " [ http://fmg.ac/Projects/Domesday/Desc2.htm ]
This, then, is my basis for showing the 3 aforementioned as sons
of Roger de Ballon as having dsp before 1166, when we find Henry de
Newmarch as holding Cadbury, Somerset.
As to the issue of Hamelin de Ballon and the descent of his barony
of Much Marcle, co. Hereford, see below. I do not show at present
a son Roger for Hamelin; further, based on Sanders (p. 66) I show
his daughter Emmeline as his heir, and ancestress of the future de
Ballon barons of Much Marcle.
Hope this is helpful.
John *
_____________________________
1 Hamelin de Ballon
----------------------------------------
Father: NN de Ballon
of Much Marcle, co. Hereford
received a lordship at Abergavenny from King William II,
ca. 1088[1]
received the barony of Much Marcle from King Henry I
(Sanders, p. 66)[2]
Children: Emmeline
1.1 Emmeline de Ballon
----------------------------------------
heiress of her father[2]
Spouse: Reginald of Breteuil
Death: ca 1145[2]
Father: Roger of Breteuil (->1088)
Children: William (-<1176)
Reginald (-1203)
1.1.1 William fitz Reginald
----------------------------------------
Death: d.s.p. bef 1176[2]
of Much Marcle, co. Hereford
1.1.2 Reginald de Ballon
----------------------------------------
Death: 1203[2]
of Much Marcle, co. Hereford
* took the name of his mother
Children: John (-1235)
1.1.2.1 John de Ballon
----------------------------------------
Death: 1235[2]
of Much Marcle, co. Hereford
Children: John (-1275)
Walter (-1287)
Reginald (->1297)
1.1.2.1.1 John de Ballon
----------------------------------------
Death: 1275, d.s.p.[2]
of Much Marcle, co. Hereford
1.1.2.1.2 Walter de Ballon
----------------------------------------
Death: 1287, d.s.p.[2]
of Much Marcle, co. Hereford
also called 'Walter de Balun'
leased Much Marcle to Edmund de Mortimer;
his widow Isolda given dower in 1/3 of Much Marcle
(Sanders, p. 66)[2]
Spouse: Isolde de Mortimer
Father: Sir Edmund de Mortimer (<1252-1304)
Mother: Joan de Grey (-<1285)
1.1.2.1.3 Reginald de Ballon
----------------------------------------
Death: aft 1297[2]
of Much Marcle, co. Hereford
1. "William Rufus," Frank Barlow, Univ of California Press
(English Monarchs Series), 1983.
2. "English Baronies: A Study of Their Origin and Descent, 1086-1327,"
I. J. Sanders, Oxford: Clarendon Press, 1960.
* John P. Ravilious