Ancestry of Jonathan Winters

[Wjhonson]

I have traced the ancestry of the comic
Jonathan Winters back to Amsterdam.

To the family of a certain Joseph Waldron
who came to "New Netherland"

I wonder if he should be appearing in AR9 ?

[John Higgins]

Is there any reason for believing (or even speculating) that Joseph
Waldron even HAS a royal ancestry?

And what makes you think that an AR9 will be published?

[hoove...@yahoo.com]

I think this is supposed to be a "secret" but I read somewhere on-line that a *scholar* in Santa Cruz, California is planning on publishing AR9. Or at least considering doing so. Maybe that's just a rumor. But, getting back to the original post, the results would certainly be comical.

Since the Waldron family is ancestral to an American president, and a scholar on the topic of American presidential ancestry collects presidential royal descents I'm sure THAT scholar will make known the Waldron royal descent (after it's first published, presumably in The New York Genealogical and Biographical Record) long before the original poster figures out which American president descends from the Waldron family.

Cordially,
Marc

[Wjhonson]

This is very curious
http://indiancountrytodaymedianetwork.com/2013/04/13/comedian-jonathan-winters-cherokee-walks-148793

Of course Jonathan Winters did *not* have 1/16 Cherokee or 1/16 of any other type of American Indian ancestry.

Odd how so many people supposedly had 1/16 Cherokee....

It is true however that his immediate family included some rather unusually rich individuals.
No one seems to know that part.

-----Original Message-----
From: Wjhonson <wjho...@aol.com>
To: gen-medieval <gen-me...@rootsweb.com>
Sent: Sun, Jun 9, 2013 1:06 pm
Subject: Ancestry of Jonathan Winters


I have traced the ancestry of the comic
Jonathan Winters back to Amsterdam.

To the family of a certain Joseph Waldron
who came to "New Netherland"

I wonder if he should be appearing in AR9 ?

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[Bronwen Edwards]

On Monday, June 10, 2013 12:50:35 PM UTC-7, wjhonson wrote:
> This is very curious
>
> http://indiancountrytodaymedianetwork.com/2013/04/13/comedian-jonathan-winters-cherokee-walks-148793
>
>
>
> Of course Jonathan Winters did *not* have 1/16 Cherokee or 1/16 of any other type of American Indian ancestry.

Exactly how would you know? I've heard his name many times in "Indian Country" (& I don't mean the newspaper) and he has put his money where his mouth is for various Indian causes for decades. So why "of course" did he not have Cherokee ancestry? What is your source for denying it? There are two large Cherokee nations in the US currently who are federally recognized (Oklahoma & North Carolina) plus many smaller Cherokee communities who are not federally recognized (usually because their ancestors did not appear on the Dawes Roll or walk the Trail of Tears). The Cherokee Nation and the Navajo Nation pass the torch of the "largest Indian nation in the US" back and forth. Who are you to say who is or is not 1/16 Cherokee? And what difference does it make one way or the other? Bronwen

[Wjhonson]

I am the person who traced his ancestry.
All 16 sixteenths.
At least far enough to know that none of the 16 are Indians....
That's who I am.

Who are you?

[hoove...@yahoo.com]

Bronwen,

I'm a step ahead of him. I traced all 16 sixteenths of each of THOSE 16 and determined that each of Jonathan Winters' great-great-grandparents was 1/16 Native American.

So he's 16/256 Native American and when you reduce the fraction it's still 1/16. It just takes a little more time and a case of recurring insomnia to figure it out.

Cordially,
Marc

[Wjhonson]

Chortle

-----Original Message-----
From: hoover_marc <hoove...@yahoo.com>
To: gen-medieval <gen-me...@rootsweb.com>
Sent: Tue, Jun 11, 2013 11:15 am
Subject: Re: Ancestry of Jonathan Winters

[Bronwen Edwards]

On Tuesday, June 11, 2013 11:14:51 AM UTC-7, hoove...@yahoo.com wrote:
> I'm a step ahead of him. I traced all 16 sixteenths of each of THOSE 16 and determined that each of Jonathan Winters' great-great-grandparents was 1/16 Native American.
>
>
>
> So he's 16/256 Native American and when you reduce the fraction it's still 1/16. It just takes a little more time and a case of recurring insomnia to figure it out.

Wow! Now my head hurts. By the way, I didn't have an opinion in the first place whether or not Winters was part Cherokee; I only knew that he always said so and that he was a generous behind-the-scenes donor to Indian causes. It is more or less the Indian way to try to see a person's heart, not his or her genes. It is the European-Americans who began to use the concept of blood quantum or degree and to make it count among Indians by treating people differently according to their blood quantum. This is also why different First Nations have varying rules about eligibility for citizenship. It is a sovereign power that is still exercised by the native nations and not by the US. In the case of my own nation, you can only be a legitimate citizen if your mother is; your father's citizenship or race is irrelevant. Left me out, since my parents were in the wrong order. I may be wrong here, but if I recall correctly the Cherokee Nation accepts 1/16 blood quantum (the historic leader, John Ross, was 1/16). But I admit I never saw anything like 16/256! ;~} Bronwen

[Wjhonson]

It's a joke.

-----Original Message-----
From: Bronwen Edwards <lostc...@yahoo.com>

To: gen-medieval <gen-me...@rootsweb.com>
Sent: Tue, Jun 11, 2013 12:15 pm
Subject: Re: Ancestry of Jonathan Winters

accepts 1/16 blood quantum (the historic leader, !

John Ross, was 1/16). But I admit I never saw anything like 16/256! ;~} Bronwen

[Douglas Richardson]

The European ancestry of the New World immigrants, Joseph and Resolved
Waldron, is published in New York Genealogical and Biographical Record
Vol. 126 (1995) pp. 12-24. This family has no known royal ancestry.
DR

[hoove...@yahoo.com]

Mr. Richardson,

I'm at a loss as to how to begin my first remarks directed toward someone of your stature in the field of genealogy.

However, I would like to point out that along with the article you mentioned that appeared in the January 1995 issue of the Record there are two further installments covering Joseph and Resolved Waldron's first wives, in the April issue (pp. 113-116) and the July issue (185-191).

Thank you for this contribution to New Amsterdam genealogy and happy Father's Day to you and all the other dads here on genmed.

Cordially,
Marc Hoover

[monke...@centurylink.net]

Have you seen this.

Jonathan Harshman Winters III (November 11 1925 – April 11 2013) was an
American comedian actor author and artist.



http://indiancountrytodaymedianetwork
com/2013/04/13/comedian-jonathan-winters-cherokee-walks-148793





Winters had Native ancestry, although he was the first to admit that, as a
1/16th Cherokee he was not as Indian as others --a People Magazine profile
from 1976 cites the quip, "If I had a nosebleed, I'd be out of the tribe."
Nonetheless he was a passionate supporter of Native causes, and served as
honorary chair of the National Congress of American Indians. In 1969,
Winters was among the celebrities -- others included Jane Fonda, Anthony
Quinn, Marlon Brando, Buffy Sainte-Marie and Dick Gregory -- who visited
occupied Alcatraz Island to show support for the Indian action.



http://www.people.com/people/archive/article/0,,20066099,00.html







http://lisarickey.wordpress
com/2012/09/25/bio-sketch-jonathan-harshman-winters-1834-1915-banker-in-dayto
-ohio/







Jonathan Harshman Winters II

Birth 27 Nov 1898 in Dayton, Montgomery, Ohio

Death 3 Nov 1975 in Delray Beach, Palm Beach,Florida



His father was

Valentine Winters

Birth 9 Jun 1866 in Dayton Montgomery Ohio

Death 8 Oct 1943 in Dayton Montgomery Ohio



Jonathan Harshman Winters II wife and mother of Jonathan Harshman Winters
III





Alice Kilgore Rodgers

Birth 4 Aug 1904 in Springfield, Clark County, Ohio

Death 18 Jun 1970 in Dayton, Montgomery, Ohio, USA



http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=34553074





Name:Valentine Winters

Gender:Male

Birth Year:ABT 1868

Birthplace:Ohio

Race:White

Home in 1930:Dayton, Montgomery, Ohio

View Map

Marital Status:Married

Relation to Head of House:Head

Spouse's Name:Helen C Winters

Father's Birthplace:Ohio

Mother's Birthplace:Ohio

Occupation:



Education:



Military service:



Rent/home value:



Age at first marriage:



Parents' birthplace:View Image

Neighbors:View others on page

Household Members:NameAge

Valentine Winters62

Helen C Winters62

Jonathan H Winters31

Alice R Winters25

Jonathan J Winters4











Alice parents



Robert Sinclair Rodgers

Birth 9 Jul 1873 in Ohio, United States

Death 3 Oct 1926 in Baltimore, Baltimore, Maryland, United States







http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=35412644









History of the Families of McKinney-Brady-Quigley

By Mrs. Belle McKinney Hays Swope, John Blair Linn





Her standard bearers. He was known by his associates in the session as a man
of judgment, of a deep religious experience, and was looked up to by all as
one worthy of the office he filled." He was an elder in the church until his
death, in the First and then in the Second, previously holding the offices
of trustee and deacon.

Intellectually brilliant, and possessing in a marked degree that innate
refinement and culture which cannot be effaced, he was a true specimen of
manhood. His integrity, uncompromising honesty, kindliness, tender outlook
on the oppressed and disheartened, won for him the approval and praise of
his fellow men. Saving lives by quiet deeds of heroic zeal, quelling disease
daily ministrations in poverty stricken homes, closing the eyes of the dead
giving life to the hopeless—these are the memories that cling to the career
of Dr. Robert Rodgers.

He used his talents to the best advantage. He was gifted with a keen sense
of his obligation to humanity and strove to meet it as a faithful trust. He
was thoroughly alive to all the business enterprises and political problems
of his day, and conversant on all popular questions and current topics.

His purity of speech and chaste utterances bespoke a heart in which dwelt no
evil or unkind thoughts and desires. Harsh words never passed his lips.
Gentle and unassuming, he was a beloved physician and friend.

In his home life he showed the most considerate and affectionate solicitude
for his family. His wife embodied all the graces of attractive womanhood.
Charming in appearance and manner, she was universally admired. Full of
animated dignity and gracious courtesy, she entertained in the most
hospitable way, giving her guests the freedom of her home, losing no
opportunity to add to their comfort or pleasure, esteeming no means of
contributing to their pleasure a sacrifice. She and her husband lived in the
enjoyment of unselfish endeavors to bestow kindness and affection on their
family and friends. Her soft voice and sweet accent of speech were
indicative of her gentleness and amiable disposition. She survived her
husband seven years. In 1870 he virtually retired from the practice of his
profession, and in 1875 a slight paralysis was the beginning of a
progressive disease which resulted in his death. Their seven children were
born at Springfield, and have resided there.

Issue:

I. DR. JOHN HARRISON RODGERS, b. Aug. 19, 1834;

M. May 21, 1857, Jane Mitchell Sturgeon, b. Oct. 19, 1836, at Church town,
Cumberland Co., Penna., and removed to Carlisle, three miles distant, in
1845, where she was married. She died Oct. 20, 1869. He attended Miami
University at Oxford, Ohio, and was a graduate in the class of 1853. In
March, 1856, he was graduated from the University of Pennsylvania,
twenty-eight years after his father. He immediately commenced practice with
him in Springfield, Ohio, and so continued until the retiring of his father
in 1870, except during his absence in the army from August, 1861, to
December, 1864, when he was for sixteen months assistant surgeon of the 44th
regiment of Ohio Volunteer Infantry. The remainder of his service he was
surgeon of the 104th regiment of Ohio Volunteer Infantry. From 1870 until
1896 he practiced actively. In 1896 he spent six months abroad, and since
his return has been engaged with the duties of his profession, though not to
such a large extent as previously. Both in and out of his profession he has
received honor and distinction. Like all the members of the house of Rodgers
he is a Presbyterian, and in politics a Republican. To Dr. John Harrison
Rodgers and Jane Mitchell Sturgeon Rodgers were born three children:

I. ADDISON STURGEON RODGERS, b. Nov. 15, .

1859; m. June 27, 1901, Ann Trig Payne Hargus, b. Sept. 8, 1871, at Carlisle
Ky., reside at Springfield, Ohio.

Ii. ROBERT RODGERS, b. Jan. 9, 1866, d. July 14,

1866.

Iii. WILLIAM BOWER RODGERS, b. June 26, 1867;

M. Apr. 12, 1898, Katharine Hall Pringle, b. Nov. 3, 1871, at Springfield,
Ohio. He is engaged with his brother in manufacturing gas and gasoline
engines, resides at Springfield, Ohio.

To William Bower Rodgers and Katharine Hall

Pringle Rodgers was born one child:



I. JOHN THOMAS RODGERS, b. Aug. 5,

1899.



Ii. RICHARD HENRY RODGERS, twin, b. Sept. 23, 1836;

M. June 21, 1866, Alice Kilgore, b. Aug. 10, 1842, daughter of Hon. Daniel
Kilgore, who was a member of Congress from Steubenville, Ohio, and
afterwards the first President of the Pan Handle Railroad, now a part of the
Pennsylvania Railroad system. She was born at Steubenville and died Feb. 12,
1884, at Springfield. Her husband received his education in Springfield,
engaged in the manufacturing business for more than thirty-five years, and
is a director in the First National Bank of his city. Since 1903 he has been
retired from active business. His extensive farms engage a large portion of
his time and attention. He resides at Springfield, Ohio. z To Richard Henry
Rodgers and Alice Kilgore Rodgers were born three children:

i. CHARLES KILGORE RODGERS, b. Aug. 28,

1867, d. Oct. 27, 1902, at Springfield, Ohio; m.

Mar. 3, 1896, Florence Mast, of Springfield, Ohio,

b. Sept. 22, 1871, d. Apr. 26, 1901, at Tucson,

Ariz.

To Charles Kilgore Rodgers and Florence Mast Rodgers was born one child:

l. RICHARD MAST RODGERS, b. Dec. 16,

1896.

ii. ROBERT SINCLAIR RODGERS, b. July 9, 1874;

m. June 5, 1900, Edith Anne Winwood, b. Nov.

16, 1874, at Cincinnati, Ohio. He is general

manager of the American Seeding Machine

Company, and resides at Springfield, Ohio.

To Robert Sinclair Rodgers and Edith Anne

Winwood Rodgers was born one child:

i. ALICE KILGORE RODGERS, b. Aug. 4,

1904.



There are some Rodgers/Rogers family that are Indian but not this one



Janet



-------Original Message-------



From: hoove...@yahoo.com

Date: 6/16/2013 6:15:45 AM

To: gen-me...@rootsweb.com

Subject: Re: Ancestry of Jonathan Winters

[kellykell...@gmail.com]

People changed their surnames in the United States. This genealogy is not reliable its a freakin scam. People didn't even have birth certificates until Social Security. J. Edgar Hoover didn't even have a birth certificate. People recorded family histories in their bibles. Natives passed as white like, African Americans passed as white. My grandfather is part Cherokee he sure looks Cherokee to me. Those big ears and almond eyes.