The wife of Fergus of Galloway
Stewart Baldwin
of Henry I of England has been discussed here on numerous occasions
before. To give a brief (but vastly oversimplified) synopsis of what
has been discussed before, there are a couple of independent (and
evidently reliable) sources which refer to certain members of Fergus's
family as relatives of certain English kings, and the most probable
explanation of this relationship would appear to be the marriage of
Fergus to an otherwise unknown illegitimate daughter of Henry I,
although there are other less likely possibilities (such as Fergus's
wife being a member of the Scottish royal family) that can't actually
be ruled out based on the evidence that has been presented in these
discussions so far.
However, in addition the the problem of interpreting the evidence
mentioned above, there is one additional loose end for which I do not
recall the evidence ever having been discussed, i.e., the name of the
wife of Fergus. Her name is consistently given as Elizabeth in the
secondary sources (if they provide a name at all), but I do not recall
her name being mentioned in any of the primary sources mentioned in
these discussions. Thus, does anybody know of any primary evidence
for the NAME of the wife of Fergus of Galloway?
Stewart Baldwin
Douglas Richardson
The name of Fergus' wife is unknown. She was almost certainly not the
daughter of King Henry I. I personally favor the theory that she was
a member of the Scottish royal family, not the English royal family.
As I recall, Fergus and/or his sons had some sort of an alliance with
William Fitz Duncan, grandson of Malcolm Canmore, King of Scotland.
My guess is that Fergus' wife was a close connection of William Fitz
Duncan. This would give Fergus' descendants a near kinship to the
Kings of England, just as the records allege.
Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah
E-mail: royala...@msn.com
sba...@mindspring.com (Stewart Baldwin) wrote in message news:<3eecb1ec....@news.mindspring.com>...
ptr...@cox.net
Stewart,
It could be that the name of Fregus' son, Uchtred, is a clue as to
Fregus' wife. The name "Uchtred" could indicate a connection with the
old earls of Northumbria. Malcom III was reputed to be related to the
earls of Northumbria; so the connection with the Scots' kings could be
through the earls of Northumbria. No sources; just an idea.
Richard Smith
Stewart Baldwin
Richardson) wrote:
>The name of Fergus' wife is unknown. She was almost certainly not the
>daughter of King Henry I. I personally favor the theory that she was
>a member of the Scottish royal family, not the English royal family.
>As I recall, Fergus and/or his sons had some sort of an alliance with
>William Fitz Duncan, grandson of Malcolm Canmore, King of Scotland.
>My guess is that Fergus' wife was a close connection of William Fitz
>Duncan. This would give Fergus' descendants a near kinship to the
>Kings of England, just as the records allege.
I agree that a descent from the kings of Scotland is one possibility
that needs to be pursued (as I have argued before on this newsgroup),
but I would like to know on what basis you can claim that Fergus's
wife was "almost certainly" not a daughter of Henry I. Like you, I am
uncomfortable with the statements of some that would represent the
connection to Henry I as proven, but I also know of nothing that would
rule out that seemingly plausible interpretation of the evidence. Do
have any evidence that would justify such a strong statement as the
one you made above?
Stewart Baldwin
Stewart Baldwin
>It could be that the name of Fregus' son, Uchtred, is a clue as to
>Fregus' wife. The name "Uchtred" could indicate a connection with the
>old earls of Northumbria. Malcom III was reputed to be related to the
>earls of Northumbria; so the connection with the Scots' kings could be
>through the earls of Northumbria. No sources; just an idea.
In fact, I once suggested such a possibility on this newsgroup. King
Duncan II of Scotland was married to a descendant of Uhtred of
Northumbria, and Duncan would make a chronologically believable father
for the wife of Fergus, provided that she was born late in the life of
Duncan (who must have been in his thirties when he died). However,
that alone is certainly not enough to prove the Scottish connection.
Stewart Baldwin
Douglas Richardson
If you read my post carefully, you'll see that I state that William
Fitz Duncan was associated with the Galloway family in the records.
That is often a good indication of kinship. If you want absolute
evidence regarding the identity of Fergus' wife, such a thing probably
doesn't exist. All the same, it's fun to theorize about such matters.
Stewart Baldwin
Richardson) wrote:
>If you read my post carefully, you'll see that I state that William
>Fitz Duncan was associated with the Galloway family in the records.
>That is often a good indication of kinship. If you want absolute
>evidence regarding the identity of Fergus' wife, such a thing probably
>doesn't exist. All the same, it's fun to theorize about such matters.
My comment was with regard to your statement that "She was almost
certainly not the daughter of King Henry I." An (as yet uncited)
association of William Fitz Duncan with the "Galloway family" does not
necessarily imply kinship (at least not based on the information you
have provided so far). If you wish to make a claim so strong that one
possibility can "almost certainly" be ruled out, such a forceful claim
demands evidence which you have not given. If, on the other hand, the
words "almost certainly" were an unintentional overstatement on your
part, and you actually meant to say something somewhat weaker (perhaps
something like you are leaning in the direction of the Scottish
solution), then perhaps it would be good to clarify your opinion on
the matter.
Stewart Baldwin