Marriage of Sir Simon Leek and Margaret de Vaux

[mj...@btinternet.com]

Roskell in HoP 1386-1421 Vol II (sub John Leek) refers to the fact that
Sir Simon Leek, of Cotham, Notts (d c1383) had a papal dispensation in
respect of his marriage. This is the source reference, from The
Calendar of Papal Letters concerning England, Vol 3 1342-1362, p 456:

"Kal. June 1351: to the Abbot of Welbeck: mandate to dispense Simon de
Leyk, donsel, and Margaret de Vaux, so as to remain in the marriage
which they contracted without banns, knowing that they are related in
the 4th degree of kindred on both sides, first enjoining them a
salutary penance, and declaring their offspring legitimate".

The off-spring whose legitimacy was thus preserved included Sir John
Leek (whose granddaughters and eventual coheirs married Sir Giles
Daubeney, Sir John Markham, Hugh Hercy and Richard Willoughby,
respectively), William Leek, MP, and Margaret, successively wife of
Godfrey Foljambe and Sir Thomas Rempston, KG.

MA-R

[mj...@btinternet.com]

mj...@btinternet.com wrote:
> Roskell in HoP 1386-1421 Vol II (sub John Leek) refers to the fact that
> Sir Simon Leek, of Cotham, Notts (d c1383) had a papal dispensation in
> respect of his marriage. This is the source reference, from The
> Calendar of Papal Letters concerning England, Vol 3 1342-1362, p 456:
>
> "Kal. June 1351: to the Abbot of Welbeck: mandate to dispense Simon de
> Leyk, donsel, and Margaret de Vaux, so as to remain in the marriage
> which they contracted without banns, knowing that they are related in
> the 4th degree of kindred on both sides, first enjoining them a
> salutary penance, and declaring their offspring legitimate".

I have been trying to ascertain the relationship between Simon Leek and
his cousin-wife Margaret de Vaux, but without luck.

As has been noted here before, Thoroton gave up trying to untangle the
skein of Nottinghamshire Leeks, and thus is of little use. The
Visitations for that county, as published by the Harleian Society,
contain a Leek stemma, but this calls Sir Simon "Sir John Leek", and
thus weakens the credence that can be placed on the further assertion
that his father was also Sir John, of Cotham. I have also searched the
published IPMs to no avail.

The only reference to this Vaux family comes from Roskell, in which he
states that the four daughters of Simon Leek, MP (the grandson of Sir
Simon) put forward a claim to be the heirs of one John Vaux; I haven't
yet chased up each of his references to see what the nature of this
claim was.

MA-R

[WJho...@aol.com]

In a message dated 5/10/06 6:34:59 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
mj...@btinternet.com writes:

<< The only reference to this Vaux family comes from Roskell, in which he
states that the four daughters of Simon Leek, MP (the grandson of Sir
Simon) put forward a claim to be the heirs of one John Vaux; I haven't
yet chased up each of his references to see what the nature of this
claim was. >>

In particular I would like to know if the Sir Thomas Rempston, K G who
married Margaret Leek "second daughter", is the same Thomas Rempston of Beckering
father-in-law to Sir John Cheney of Fen Ditton.
Thanks
Will Johnson

[Jeffery A. Duvall]

In *Political Society in Lancastrian England: The Greater Gentry of
Nottinghamshire* (Clarendon Press, Oxford: 1991), p. 235, Simon Payling
identifies Margaret, wife of Sir Simon Leek (d. ca. 1382) as the daughter of
Sir John Vaux (d. 1349) of Cotham, but (at least in the photocopied pages I
have in my files) there's no information on the ancestry of either man.
Payling does indicate (on pages 44-45), however, that Leek married up, as it
were...

Sir John Leek (d. 1413), son of Sir Simon Leek and Margaret Vaux, married
Isabel Towers, daughter of Thomas Towers of Somerby by Gainsborough
(Lincs.). Their son, Simon Leek married Joan, daughter of Sir John Talbot
of Swannington (Leics.), and it was their daughters who married into the
Daubeney, Markham, Hercy, and Willoughby families.

Margaret Leek, daughter of Sir John Leek (d. 1417) and Isabel Towers, was
married to (1) Sir Godfrey Foljambe (d. 1388) and second Sir Thomas Rempston
(d. 1406).

The Rempston table (p. 239 in Payling), shows Margaret Leek as the mother of
Sir Thomas Rempston (d. 1458), who married Alice Beckering. Elizabeth
Rempston, wife of Sir John Cheyne (d. 1489) is shows as the daughter of the
latter couple (Sir Thomas Rempston and Alice Beckering)...

Jeff Duvall
jef...@iquest.net
and
jdu...@iupui.edu

[WJho...@aol.com]

Thanks for that additional information!

[mj...@btinternet.com]

"Jeffery A. Duvall" wrote:
> In *Political Society in Lancastrian England: The Greater Gentry of
> Nottinghamshire* (Clarendon Press, Oxford: 1991), p. 235, Simon Payling
> identifies Margaret, wife of Sir Simon Leek (d. ca. 1382) as the daughter of
> Sir John Vaux (d. 1349) of Cotham

Many thanks for that, jeff; you kindly posted this paternity a few
months ago, but I had not previously been aware of the source. This
John Vaux is likely to be the one of that name who was sometime
escheator of Nottinghamshire and also, I think, Sheriff.

> Margaret Leek, daughter of Sir John Leek (d. 1417) and Isabel Towers, was
> married to (1) Sir Godfrey Foljambe (d. 1388) and second Sir Thomas Rempston
> (d. 1406).

According to Roskell in HoP (sub Rempston), Margaret was the sister
rather than the daughter of Sir John Leek. (Although, if I remember
rightly, the Visitation of Cambridgeshire sub Cheyney, calls her father
Sir John, there are other nominal errors manifest in that text eg its
treatment of the Beckering sisters). I wonder whether Payling has this
muddled?

> The Rempston table (p. 239 in Payling), shows Margaret Leek as the mother of
> Sir Thomas Rempston (d. 1458), who married Alice Beckering. Elizabeth
> Rempston, wife of Sir John Cheyne (d. 1489) is shows as the daughter of the
> latter couple (Sir Thomas Rempston and Alice Beckering)...

This is correct: she married the elder Thomas Rempston (d 1406) and was
mother of the younger (d 1458); both have detailed entries in ODNB.

Thanks for your very informative post.

Regards, Michael

[JDUVALL]

I'll check the pages I've copied from Payling's book to see if he lists
the sources for his discussion of the Leek family. If I find them, I'll
post them to the list.

I may have already asked this before, but is anything known of the
ancestry of this Sir John Vaux? The fact that Payling, if I recall
correctly (my notes are at home, so I'll have to verify this), indicated
that the Leeks were an old (traceable back to the time of either Henry
II or John if I'm not mistaken) family in the neighborhood, but not
particularly distinguished, and that Sir Simon's marriage to Margaret
Vaux was a real move up the social ladder (as it were) is rather
interesting in light of your original post pointing out that they were
related within a prohibited degree...

Jeff

[mj...@btinternet.com]

"JDUVALL" schrieb:

Thanks, Jeff; that would be very useful. I was at the SoG the other
day, and looked through the Thoroton Society's extracted
Nottinghamshire IPMs, but there was nothing for Vaux (or Vallibus etc)
at all. John de Vaux was Sheriff from 1347 to 1350 (sic) according to
some online sources, but that's all I have been able to find. There
are no Notts Vauxs in the Knights of Edward I.

As Thoroton himself noted, it is hard to sort the Leeks out, but this
is partly because there are so many of them. Simon Leek is named in
one early IPM but no relationship is specified. As noted earlier, the
Leek pedigree (sub Hercy) in one of the Notts Visitations is faulty and
thus particularly unreliable.

Regards, Michael

[WJho...@aol.com]

Is there a date for the death of Elizabeth Rempston, wife of Sir John Cheney?
If not, I can at least offer a terminus.

Will Johnson
-------------------------------
Hertfordshire Archives and Local Studies: Title deeds and estate papers of
the Lytton family of Knebworth House, Knebworth, c1279 - 1910
Title deeds and estate papers of the Lytton family of Knebworth House,
Knebworth, c1279-1910
Catalogue Ref. DE/K
Creator(s): Lytton family of Knebworth, Hertfordshire

TITLE DEEDS
Derby
Baslow, Litton
FILE - Grant - ref. DE/K/46816 - date: 10 May 1478
[from Scope and Content] By Thomas Cheyne of 'Artilburgh', Northampton, esq,
(son and heir apparent of Sir John Cheyne of Ditton, Kent, knight, and of
Elizabeth his late wife who was daughter and heir of Sir Thomas Rempston, knight,)
to John Fitzherbert, Robert Eyre, son of Robert Eyre of [Nether] Padley,
Derby, esq, Thomas Rede, citizen of London, Thomas Hunt, Robert Lytton of London,
gentlemen, Richard Blakwall and William Clayton, of the manor of Litton etc.
Power of attorney to Thomas Hogekynson and John Barton to deliver seizin.

FILE - Quitclaim - ref. DE/K/46817 - date: 9 Nov 1479
[from Scope and Content] By Sir William Plompton, Kt, to John Fitzherbert
(and others named in DE/K/46216) concerning the manor of Litton, late the
property of Sir Thomas Rempston, knight.

[WJho...@aol.com]

Margaret the second daughter of Simon, married thirdly (?) to John Markham.

Will Johnson
--------------------------
Nottinghamshire Archives: Portland of Welbeck (1st Deposit): Deeds and Estate
Papers [DD/P/1 - DD/P/37]Portland of Welbeck (1st deposit): Deeds and Estate
Papers
Catalogue Ref. 157 DD/P
Creator(s): Cavendish family, Dukes of Newcastle upon Tyne

NOTTINGHAMSHIRE
COTHAM AND SIBTHORPE - ref. 157 DD/P/8
A bundle labelled "Cavendish Deeds".
FILE [no title] - ref. 157 DD/P/8/3 - date: 1 June 1439
[from Scope and Content] Letter of Attorney: Sir Thomas Rempston, Sir John
Pygot, Nicholas Wymbyssh, William Rempston, George Plumpton, Robert Stokwyth,
clerks, Robert Rempston, esq., Ralph Leek of Kirton, Hugh Wymbyssh, John Leek of
Halom, and Richard Wakefield of Newerk to Thomas Leek and John Byngham esqs:
to deliver seisin to Mary, wife of Sir Giles Dawbeney (eldest daughter of
Simon Leek esq., dec'd.):-- manor of Cotom, 40ac. in meadow called Stokemede, and
all other property in Hawton which they with others had of the gift of S.L.
--: to Mary and heirs of her body; with remainder to Margaret, wife of John
Markham (second daughter of S.L.) and heirs of her body; then to Elizabeth, wife
of Hugh Heroy, esq. (third daughter of S.L.) and heirs of her body; then to
Anne, wife of Richard Wyloughby, esq. (fourth daughter of S.L.) and heirs of her
body; then to right heirs of S.L. Seals.

[WJho...@aol.com]

Wait this can't be right.

It must be that these girls are all daughters of Simon Leek and Joan Talbot ?
If they were daughters of Simon his grandfather, they'd all be in their 70s
and 80s when they finally inherited !

Am I right that they were daughters of Joan?

Will

[Jeffery A. Duvall]

Yes, they are the daughters of Simon Leek of Cotham, M.P. (d. aft. 1423) and
his wife Joan Talbot. See either Payling of the Roskell entry for Simon
Leek.

Jeff Duvall

[Jeffery A. Duvall]

Michael,

Payling notes that Margaret Vaux brought the following properties to Sir
Simon Leek (d. ca. 1382): "Cotham and lands over the Lincs. border at
Westborough, Dry Doddington, Stubton, and Thorp." (p. 44) His sources are:
Thoroton, i. 341-3; CP 40/701, rot. 340. He described the Leeks as follows:
"They were an ancient knightly family, established at West Leake in the
south-east corner of the county [Nottinghamshire] since the time of King
John, but, in the thirteenth century, far inferior to the Strelleys,
Cliftons, Pierponts, Chaworths, and Nevills in status. It was not until the
mid-fourteenth century and the marriage of Sir Simon Leek (d. ca. 1382) to
Margaret, the daughter and heiress of Sir John Vaux (d. 1349) of Cotham near
Newark, that the family made any progress up the social scale." (p. 44)

His sources are: Thoroton i, 48; CIPM, vi. no. 507; Notts. IPM, 1321-50,
4-5; CFR, 1347-56, 171; TE, i, 29; Calender of Entries in the Papal
Registers Relating to Great Britain and Ireland: Papal Letters, 1198-1492,
14 vols. in 15 (HMSO, 1893-1960), iii. 456.

I didn't photocopy the key, however, so I'm sure I can identify all the
sources, but I can always order the book again and copy that as well, the
abbreviations are unfamiliar.

At any rate, these were Payling's sources.

Cheers,

Jeff

----- Original Message -----
From: <mj...@btinternet.com>
To: <GEN-MED...@rootsweb.com>
Sent: Thursday, May 11, 2006 5:56 PM
Subject: Re: Marriage of Sir Simon Leek and Margaret de Vaux

BIG CUT

[mj...@btinternet.com]

"Jeffery A. Duvall" wrote:
> Michael,
>
> Payling notes that Margaret Vaux brought the following properties to Sir
> Simon Leek (d. ca. 1382): "Cotham and lands over the Lincs. border at
> Westborough, Dry Doddington, Stubton, and Thorp." (p. 44) His sources are:
> Thoroton, i. 341-3; CP 40/701, rot. 340.

Many thanks, Jeff. I shall have to take another look at Thoroton when
I am next at the British Library. While he didn't provide much useful
material on Sir Simon Leek's background, he may have some worthwhile
Vaux information. It is also useful to know that the Vaux holdings
extended into Derbyshire, as more could be found in connection with
that county. CP 40/701 is a Public Record Office reference, relating
to the Court of Common Pleas' Easter Term hearings in 1436.

> He described the Leeks as follows:
> "They were an ancient knightly family, established at West Leake in the
> south-east corner of the county [Nottinghamshire] since the time of King
> John, but, in the thirteenth century, far inferior to the Strelleys,
> Cliftons, Pierponts, Chaworths, and Nevills in status. It was not until the
> mid-fourteenth century and the marriage of Sir Simon Leek (d. ca. 1382) to
> Margaret, the daughter and heiress of Sir John Vaux (d. 1349) of Cotham near
> Newark, that the family made any progress up the social scale." (p. 44)
>
> His sources are: Thoroton i, 48; CIPM, vi. no. 507; Notts. IPM, 1321-50,
> 4-5; CFR, 1347-56, 171; TE, i, 29; Calender of Entries in the Papal
> Registers Relating to Great Britain and Ireland: Papal Letters, 1198-1492,
> 14 vols. in 15 (HMSO, 1893-1960), iii. 456.

The Notts IPM reference probably just relates to one of the several
inquests in which Sir Simon's holdings are detailed - mostly as a
feoffee. The Papal Letter reference heads this thread. I am not sure
what the Calendar of Fine Rolls (CFR) entry is likely to reveal, but
will chase it up. I can't think off the top of my head was "TE" is:
anyone??

[mj...@btinternet.com]

mj...@btinternet.com schrieb:

> "Jeffery A. Duvall" wrote:
> > Michael,
> >
> > Payling notes that Margaret Vaux brought the following properties to Sir
> > Simon Leek (d. ca. 1382): "Cotham and lands over the Lincs. border at
> > Westborough, Dry Doddington, Stubton, and Thorp." (p. 44) His sources are:
> > Thoroton, i. 341-3; CP 40/701, rot. 340.
>
> Many thanks, Jeff. I shall have to take another look at Thoroton when
> I am next at the British Library. While he didn't provide much useful
> material on Sir Simon Leek's background, he may have some worthwhile
> Vaux information. It is also useful to know that the Vaux holdings
> extended into Derbyshire

Or even Lincolnshire, as you wrote!