C.P. Addition: Burial place of Joan de Munchensy, Countess of Pembroke

[Douglas Richardson]

Dear Newsgroup ~

Complete Peerage 10 (1945): 377-381 (sub Pembroke) has a good account of Sir William de Valence, Lord (or Earl) of Pembroke, died 1296, who was the uterine half-brother of King Henry III of England. Regarding his marriage, the following information is provided on page 381:

He married, 13 August 1247, Joan, daughter of Warin de Munchensy, Lord of Swanscombe, by his 1st wife, Joan, 5th daughter and in her issue coheiress of William (Marshal), 4th Earl of Pembroke. He [William de Valence] died before 18 May 1296, in England, and was buried in Westminster Abbey. Joan, who retained until her death the lordships of Pembroke and Wexford, as well as Goodrich Castle, died in 1307, before 20 September." END OF QUOTE.

Additional information regarding Joan de Munchensy, wife of William de Valence, is provided in footnote d on page 381:

"Cal. Inq. p.m., vol. v, no. 56. In the writ, dated 20 September, she is styled Countess of Pembroke. As she was only the representative of the youngest Marshal sister and coheir, she was not entitled to the Earldom; but having inherited the castle and lordship of Pembroke, she seems gradually to have appropriated the title and eventually to have been recognised as Countess." END OF QUOTE.

William de Valence's burial at Westminster Abbey is well known. His stone-altar tomb, under a wooden superstructure, lies between the south ambulatory and the chapel of St. Edmund. However, the burial place of his widow, Countess Joan, is not indicated by Complete Peerage.

I find, however, that Joan's burial is mentioned in a contemporary letter dated 1307, written Henry Woodlock, Bishop of Winchester, to Peter, Bishop of Sabina, which Peter was then staying at Canterbury. A transcript of the letter is published in Goodman, Registrum Henrici Woodlock, Diocesis Wintoniensis A.D. 1305-1316 (Canterbury & York Soc. 44) (1941): 708-709. The letter discusses the funeral services of King Edward I, who died 7 July 1307, as well as the burial of Joan, Countess of Pembroke:

"Venerabili in Christo domino P. Dei gratia Sabinensis episcopo etc. frater H. etc. salutem etc. .... scientes re vera quod a longe retro temporibus, tum pro exequiis celebris memorie domini Edwardi dudum [regis] Anglie illustris, tum pro parliamento et pro sepultura nobilis mulieris .. comitisse de Penbroc apud Gloucestriam in partibus remotis humata [sic], et variis aliis de causis fere vsque in hodiernum diem nos et nostri quasi in continuo labore extitimus occupati ..." END OF QUOTE.

As we can see above, Bishop Henry states that [Joan] Countess of Pembroke was buried at Gloucester in distant parts.

For interest's sake, the following is a list of the 17th Century New World immigrants that descend from Joan de Munchensy, Countess of Pembroke, died 1307:

Robert Abell, William Asfordby, Christopher Batt, Essex Beville, William Bladen, George & Nehemiah Blakiston, Elizabeth Bosvile, Mary Bourchier, George & Robert Brent, Charles Calvert, Kenelm Cheseldine, Grace Chetwode, Jeremy Clarke, Matthew Clarkson, St. Leger Codd, Henry Corbin, Francis Dade, Humphrey Davie, Edward Digges, Muriel Gurdon, Elizabeth & John Harleston, Warham Horsmanden, Anne Humphrey, Mary Launce, Nathaniel Littleton, Simon Lynde, Henry, Jane & Nicholas Lowe, Anne & Katherine Marbury, Anne Mauleverer, Richard More, Philip & Thomas Nelson, Thomas Owsley, John Oxenbridge, Richard Parker, Herbert Pelham, Robert Peyton, George Reade, William Rodney, Thomas Rudyard, Richard Saltonstall, Katherine Saint Leger, Diana & Grey Skipwith, Mary Johanna Somerset, John Stratton, Samuel & William Torrey, Olive Welby, John West.

Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah

[Steve Riggan]

One other descendant is William Farrar :)

Steve Riggan

Sent from my iPhone

> -------------------------------
> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to GEN-MEDIEV...@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

[Douglas Richardson]

On Wednesday, July 24, 2013 1:24:22 PM UTC-6, Steve Riggan wrote:
> One other descendant is William Farrar :)
>
>
>
> Steve Riggan

Steve ~

When you have a moment, can you post the exact descent from Joan de Munchensy down to William Farrar.

Thanks!

[Douglas Richardson]

For "contemporary letter dated 1307, written Henry Woodlock, Bishop of Winchester,"

please read "contemporary letter dated 1307, written by Henry Woodlock, Bishop of Winchester,"

DR

[Leo van de Pas]

Dear Steve,

I think you might be wrong. You are a descendant of William Farrar and of
Joan de Munchensy, but William Farrar (as far as I can see) is not a
descendant of Joan............
With best wishes
Leo

-----Original Message-----
From: gen-mediev...@rootsweb.com
[mailto:gen-mediev...@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Steve Riggan
Sent: Thursday, 25 July 2013 5:24 AM
To: Douglas Richardson
Cc: gen-me...@rootsweb.com
Subject: Re: C.P. Addition: Burial place of Joan de Munchensy, Countess of
Pembroke

One other descendant is William Farrar :)

Steve Riggan

Sent from my iPhone

On Jul 24, 2013, at 12:17 PM, "Douglas Richardson" <royala...@msn.com>
wrote:

[Steve Riggan]

My apologies!! I went off memory which is a bad thing to do with these lines. William Farrar was descended from John Hastings' second marriage to Isabel le Despenser, not the first marriage to Isabel de Valence. I mixed this up with my line from Diana Skipwith who was descended from Isabel de Valence's sister Joan de Valence and John Comyn, Lord of Badenoch. I've been looking at these lines too long!

Steve

Sent from my iPhone

On Jul 24, 2013, at 12:24 PM, "Steve Riggan" <sri...@hotmail.com> wrote:

> One other descendant is William Farrar :)
>
> Steve Riggan
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Jul 24, 2013, at 12:17 PM, "Douglas Richardson" <royala...@msn.com> wrote:
>