CP Addition: New Wake-Saint John Descent from King John and Llywelyn ap Iowerth
Douglas Richardson
The following hitherto unnoticed descent from King John and Llywelyn
ap Iowerth lies in the ancestry of Thomas Poynings alias Saint John,
2nd Lord Poynings of Basing (died 1429), and his sister, Joan, wife of
Henry de Ferrers, Knt., 4th Lord Ferrers of Groby. Thomas and Joan
are in the ancestry of several American colonists.
The new descent comes through Thomas and Joan's grandmother, Mirabel,
wife of Hugh de Saint John, 2nd Lord Saint John of Basing (died 1335),
whose parentage has been overlooked by previous researchers.
Mirabel's affiliation as daughter of Hugh Wake, Knt., of Winterborne
Stoke and Compton, co. Wilts, is proven by the descent of the manor of
Winterborne Stoke and other property which fell by inheritance in 1413
to Mirabel's grandson, Thomas Poynings [see J.L. Kirby, Hungerford
Cartulary (Wiltshire Rec. Soc., vol. 49) (1994), pg. 35 cited below,
in which Thomas Poynings refers to the Wake property as his
"inheritance"]. Likewise, in an ancient pedigree of the Aspale family
found in Hist. & Antiq. of Suffolk. Thingoe Hundred (1938), by John
Gage (cited below), Mirabel is specifically called "Mirabilia fil.
Hugonis Wake de Blysworth, fratris Johannis D[omi]ni Wake, 13 Edw.
III. 1339."). The Aspale pedigree is correct as to Mirabel's father,
Hugh Wake, but confuses him with his cousin of the same name, Hugh
Wake of Blisworth. Hugh Wake of Winterborne Stoke was brother to John
Wake, Lord Wake, not Hugh Wake of Blisworth.
For interest sake, the following is a list of colonial immigrants who
descend from either Thomas Poynings, or his sister, Joan (Poynings)
Ferrers. Their grandmother, Mirabel Wake, also has modern descendants
through her younger son, Sir John Aspale, but no colonists are known
to descend from him.
l. Anne Baynton.
2. Elizabeth Bosvile.
3. Charles Calvert.
4. Jeremy Clarke.
5. Thomas Dudley.
6. John Fenwick.
7. William Goddard.
8. Jane Haviland.
9. Maria Johanna Somerset.
10. John Stockman.
11. Thomas Wingfield (two descents).
For particulars on descents down to individual immigrants, please see
the forthcoming book, Plantagenet Ancestry, soon to be released.
Contact me at my e-mail address below for details on ordering the
book, which is available for a limited time at a special
pre-publication price.
Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah
E-mail: royala...@msn.com
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JOHN, King of England, by a mistress, CLEMENCE _____.
JOAN OF ENGLAND, married LLYWELYN AP IOWERTH, Prince of North
Wales.
ELLEN OF NORTH WALES, married ROBERT DE QUINCY, Knt., of Colne
Quincy, Essex.
HAWISE DE QUINCY, married BALDWIN WAKE, Knt., Baron of Liddel
Strength, Cumberland, and Cottingham, co. York.
14. HUGH WAKE, Knt., of Winterbourne Stoke and Compton, co. Wilts,
Knight of the Shire for Wiltshire, younger son. He married JOAN DE
BELAUNEY, daughter of Baldwin de Belauney. Her maritagium included
lands in Boulsbury (in South Damerham), co. Hants and 1/5 virgate in
Fisherton de la Mare, co. Wilts. They had one son, Hugh, Knt., and one
daughter, Mirabel (or Muriel). SIR HUGH WAKE died shortly before 18
May 1312. His widow married (2nd) before 24 May 1325 Nicholas de
Braybrook (living 1328). She died shortly before 20 June 1329.
References:
Cal. IPM 4 (1913): 242; 5 (1908): 257; 7 (1909): 165. Rev. C. Moor,
Knights of Edward I, 5 (1932): 136. C.P. 12 Pt. 2 (1959): 301,
footnote d. Index of Placita de Banco, 1327-1328 Pt. 2 (PRO, London,
Lists and Indexes, No. 32) (repr. 1963): 716. VCH Wiltshire 8 (1965):
39. J.L. Kirby, Hungerford Cartulary (Wiltshire Rec. Soc., vol. 49)
(1994), pp. 22-27,29-30. VCH Wiltshire 15 (1995): 277-278. G.J.
Brault, Rolls of Arms Edward I (1272-1307) 2 (1997): 441 (arms of Hugh
Wake: Or, two bars and in chief three roundels argent, over all a bend
azure).
13. MIRABEL (or MURIEL) WAKE, married HUGH DE SAINT JOHN, 2nd Lord
Saint John of Basing de jure, of Basing, Upton, and Tonworth, co.
Hants, Halnaker, Sussex, Tonge, Kent, etc., Keeper of Hampshire,
King's yeoman, 2nd but 1st surviving son and heir of John de Saint
John, lst Lord Saint John of Basing, by Isabel, daughter of Hugh de
Courtenay, Knt., Baron of Oakhampton, Devon. He was born 26 May 1310.
They had one son, Edmund [3rd Lord Saint John], and two daughters,
Margaret (wife of John de Saint Philibert, Lord Saint Philibert) and
Isabel. He was never summoned to Parliament. He was going to Gascony
in 1329. They received an indult for plenary remission in 1329. In
1339 he was summoned against the Scots. HUGH DE SAINT JOHN, 2nd Lord
Saint John of Basing de jure, died shortly before 25 Oct. 1335. His
widow married (2nd) before 10 Mar. 1336/7 THOMAS DE ASPALE, Knt., of
Lackford, Suffolk, Sheriff of Hampshire, younger son of Robert de
Aspale, Knt., by Alice, daughter and heiress of Hugh de Cressingham,
Knt. They had one son, John, Knt. They were both living in June
1355.
References:
W. Dugdale, Baronage 2 (1675): 463-465 (sub Port). W. Berry, County
Genealogies: Pedigrees of the Families in the County of Sussex (1830),
pg. 61. A.J. Horwood, Year Books of the Reign of King Edward the
Third, Years XI & XII (Rerum Britannicarum Medii Aevi Scriptores, vol.
31, no. 6) (1883), pp. 368-373. L.O. Pike, Year Books of the Reign of
King Edward the Third, Years XIII & XIV (Rerum Britannicarum Medii
Aevi Scriptores, vol. 31 no. 8) (1886): 122-131. Cal. Entries in the
Papal Registers: Letters 2 (1895): 301. VCH Hampshire 2 (1903): 496
(St. John arms: Silver a chief gules with two molets gold upon the
chief). J. Gage, Hist. & Antiq. of Suffolk. Thingoe Hundred (1838):
45, 47 (Aspale pedigree based on Aspale and Gedding pedigrees in Liber
Drury & MS. Chitting: "D[omi]n[u]s Thomas de Aspale = Mirabilia fil.
Hugonis Wake de Blysworth, fratris Johannis D[omi]ni Wake, 13 Edw.
III. 1339."). C.P. 11 (1949): 326-327. G. Paget Baronage of England
(1957) 480:5. VCH Wiltshire 8 (1965): 39. VCH Wiltshire 15 (1995):
277-278. G.J. Brault Roll of Arms Edward I (1272-1307) 2 (1997): 372
(arms of Hugh de Saint John: Ermine, on a chief gules two mullets or).
12. ISABEL DE SAINT JOHN, Lady Saint John of Basing de jure suo jure,
younger daughter, born about 1333 (aged 14 in 1347). She was
co-heiress in 1347 to her brother, Edmund de Saint John, 3rd Lord
Saint John. She married (1st) before Aug. 1347 HENRY DE BURGHERSH,
son and heir apparent of Bartholomew de Burghersh, Knt., 3rd Lord
Burghersh, by Elizabeth, daughter and co-heiress of Thebaud de Verdon,
Knt., 2nd Lord Verdun. They had no issue. He died in Nov. 1348. She
married (2nd) before 29 Jan. 1348/9 LUKE DE POYNINGS (or PONYNGES),
Knt., in right of his wife, of Basing, Hants, Halnaker, Sussex, etc.,
Keeper of Pamper Forest, co. Hants, younger son of Thomas de Poynings,
Knt., of Poynings, Sussex, by Agnes, younger daughter and co-heiress
of Richard de Rokesley, of Westwood (in Preston), Kent. They had one
son, Thomas, and one daughter, Joan. In 1358 he was preparing to go
abroad. Isabel was heiress in 1361 to her nephew, John de Saint
Philibert. He was summoned to Parliament from 24 Feb. 1367/8 by writs
directed Luce de Ponynges, whereby he is held to have become Lord
Poynings. He took 10 men-at-arms overseas in the King’s service
in 1370. LUKE DE POYNINGS, 1st Lord Poynings of Basing, died testate
between 5 June and 4 July 1376, and was buried at Warnford, co. Hants.
His widow died 16 or 17 Oct. 1393.
References:
W. Dugdale, Baronage 2 (1675): 463-465 (sub Port). W. Berry, County
Genealogies: Pedigrees of the Families in the County of Sussex (1830),
pg. 61. VCH Hampshire 2 (1903): 496 (Poynings arms: Barry gold and
vert with a baston gules). VCH Hampshire 3 (1908): 269. C.P. 2
(1912): 426 (sub Burghersh). C.P. 10 (1945): 665-666 (sub Poynings).
C.P. 11 (1949): 327-328 (sub Saint John), 367 (sub Saint Philibert).
G. Paget Baronage of England (1957) 463:1. List of Inq. ad Quod
Damnum 2 (PRO, Lists and Indexes, No. 22) (repr. 1963): 674. Ancient
Deeds Series A (List & Index Soc., vol. 151) (1978), pg. 81.
Children of Isabel de Saint John, by Luke de Poynings, Knt.:
i. THOMAS POYNINGS [see next].
ii.JOAN DE POYNINGS, married HENRY DE FERRERS, Knt., 4th Lord
Ferrers of Groby [see CLARKE 8].
11. THOMAS POYNINGS (or SAINT JOHN), Knt., 2nd Lord Poynings of
Basing, Hants, Halnaker, Walberton, etc., Sussex, and Newbury, Kent,
son and heir. He married before 1376 JOAN LE STRANGE, daughter of
Roger le Strange, Knt., 5th Lord Strange, of Knockin, Salop, by Aline
(descendant of Geoffrey Plantagenet), daughter of Edmund de Arundel,
Knt., 9th Earl of Arundel (descendant of King John) [see STRANGE 12
for her ancestry]. They had four sons, Luke, Hugh, Luke, and Thomas.
She reportedly died in 1398. He married (2nd) before 24 Nov. 1399
PHILIPPE MORTIMER, widow successively of John de Hastings, Knt., 3rd
Earl of Pembroke (died 1389) and Richard de Arundel, K.G., Earl of
Arundel and Surrey (beheaded 21 Sep. 1397), and daughter of Edmund
Mortimer, Knt., 3rd Earl of March, by Philippe, daughter and heiress
of Lionel of Antwerp, K.G., Duke of Clarence. He had license in 1400
for 3 years' absence to make a pilgrimage to Jerusalem. She died at
Halnaker 24 Sep. 1401, and was buried in Boxgrove Priory. In 1413 he
received the manor of Winterbourne Stoke, co. Wilts, at the death of
his cousin, Thomas Wake. He married (3rd) after 16 Apr. 1415 but
before Jan. 1419/20 MAUD MAULEY, widow of John Halsham, of Coombe,
Sussex. They had one son, Thomas (second of name) and two daughters,
Isabel, and Margaret (wife of John Brewes, Knt., and _____ Wykham).
SIR THOMAS POYNINGS alias SAINT JOHN, 2nd Lord Poynings of Basing,
died testate 7 Mar. 1428/9, his will directing burial at Boxgrove
Priory, near his 2nd wife, Philippe. His widow died testate 14 June
1453.
References:
W. Berry, County Genealogies: Pedigrees of the Families in the County
of Sussex (1830), pg. 61. Cal. Entries in the Papal Registers:
Letters 7 (1906): 335. VCH Hampshire 3 (1908): 269. Sussex Rec. Soc.
23 (1916): 240-241. C.P. 10 (1945): 667 (sub Poynings) (parentage of
first wife Joan not given). C.P. 11 (1949): 328-329. L.C. Loyd, Sir
Christopher Hatton's Book of Seals (1950), pg. 168. G. Paget,
Baronage of England (1957) 463: 1 (3rd wife: Margaret, daughter of Sir
Nigel Loryng). VCH Wiltshire 8 (1965): 39. J.L. Kirby, Hungerford
Cartulary (Wiltshire Rec.Soc., vol. 49) (1994): 35 ("Deed [dated 1
Oct. 1416] of Thomas Ponynges, knight, Lord Seynt Johan, granting to
Hugh Seynt Johan, his son and heir, and Eleanor his wife the reversion
of the manor of Winterbourne Stoke, which should descend to him by
right of inheritance after the death of Elizabeth, widow of Thomas
Wake"). VCH Wiltshire 15 (1995): 277-278.