Weston families and Westonia

[Rafał T. Prinke]

Dear Colleagues,

I have not been here for probably a decade or more -- so hello to old friends!

While I have moved to other areas of research, genealogy is always around and now I have a question that only members of GEN-MEDIEVAL can answer. I have been looking at what is known about the family of the neolatin poet "Westonia" or Elizabeth Jane Weston (1581-1612). She was a step-daughter of the notorious magician and alchemist Edward Kelley (1555-1597), the companion of Dr. John Dee. She was also famous in her own right as a Latin poet. A short biography of her may be found in ODNB, while a critical edition of her poems with English translations was published in 2000.

From what is known about her immediate family, she was born in Chipping Norton, Oxfordshire in 1581, as a daughter of John Weston "a clark" and his wife Joanna Cooper, daughter of Thomas Cooper. They were married in 1579 in Chipping Norton and besides Westonia had a son John Francis, b. 1580 (who died while a student in Ingolstadt in 1600). There are earlier records of Coopers in CHipping Norton but nothing on Westons, so it seems John Weston settled down in his wife's town. He died there in 1582 and Joanna married Edward Kelley (the record of which marriage has not been found). The couple went with John Dee to Poland and Bohemia, initially leaving the children with their grandmothers in Chipping Norton, but later they joined them in Prague.

Contemporary Czech and German sources called her "a noble woman" but modern researchers assumed that she had come from humble background as her father was "just a clark" and that the "noble" designation reflected Kelley's status in Bohemia. He claimed he was a descendant of the Irish noble O'Kelly of Imany family and had it confirmed by the Emperor, together with the coat of arms similar (but not identical) to that of the Irish clan.

The fact that made me reconsider such assumption is that Westonia's marble tomb at St. Thomas church in Prague displays two heraldic shields, one of her husband, and the other one displaying "ermine, on a chief five bezants" -- which was the arms of one of the more prominent Weston families. Of course, it may have been illegally assumed -- just like that of Kelley -- especially in the far-away Prague. But it is equally possible that the John Weston of Chipping Norton was a member of the family using that coat-of-arms.

I have cheked a number of sources available on the Internet, including Chester Waters, Genealogical memories (1878) and Harrison, Annals of an Old Manor House Sutton Place (1893), and of course Visitations, where (Surrey, p. 215) I readily spotted one "John de Weston cl'icus 31 E 1" -- too late to be identical with the one of Chipping Norton but showing that there were clarks in the family (also his brother Thomas). This Surrey family has, however, a different arms -- in fact several arms used by various members. The family with the same arms as on Westonia's tomb seems to Staffordshire and Lincolshire -- but all of it is quite confusing (with the Earl of Portland, whose pedigree is said to be "made-up", also using it).

Looking for some additional information on the Internet, I found a fascinating and involved discussion of the various Westons of those families, which was taking place here in February/March 2014, with participation of many members, including:

Shawn <shp...@comcast.net>
Joe <coc...@gmail.com>
Douglas Richardson <royala...@msn.com>

and in the threads entitled:

Weston / Walton descent from the Earls of Westmorland
Family of John Weston, of Lichfield, Staffordshire (died c.1550)


I went through the great number of quoted documents and alternating arguments concerning the relationships of the various Westons but could not decide if any of the branches may be hypothetically assumed to be linked with the John Weston clark of Chipping Norton.

Any comments and/or suggestions will be appreciated!

Best regards,

Rafal

[Rafał T. Prinke]

W dniu czwartek, 27 sierpnia 2015 19:37:12 UTC+2 użytkownik ravinma...@yahoo.com napisał:
> Were there really persons named "John Francis Weston" and "Elizabeth Jane Weston" born in 1580-81?


Yes, christened in the church of St Mary the Virgin, Chipping Norton, children of John Weston and Joanna Cooper -- as stated above. We would you doubt it?

Best regards,

Rafal

[taf]

On Thursday, August 27, 2015 at 10:09:22 AM UTC-7, Rafał T. Prinke wrote:

> Contemporary Czech and German sources called her "a noble woman" but
> modern researchers assumed that she had come from humble background as
> her father was "just a clark" and that the "noble" designation reflected
> Kelley's status in Bohemia.

"Just a clark" is a bit misleading, as at the time, a clerk was a cleric, usually the product of privately funded university education, and commonly of the gentry class (or higher). Venn's Alumni Cantabrigienses lists one John Weston, MA, who died in 1582, but assigns him to a Norfolk parish. (Foster's Alumni Oxonienses assigns this parish to a different man of the same name.)

taf

[taf]

A child receiving multiple given names (i.e. having a 'middle name') was rather uncommon at this time in England.

taf

[Rafał T. Prinke]

Thank you for the Cambridge/Oxford reference.

> A child receiving multiple given names (i.e. having a 'middle name') was rather uncommon at this time in England.
>
> taf

Oh, I see. Indeed, the church register lists plain John and Elizabeth but it has been assumed they are the same persons. I gave two given names which they used in their adult life in Bohemia/Austria. There should be little doubt that they are different persons, however. For one thing, John Dee noted in 1583 that Kelley was in a rage when he learned that his wife left and "was at home with her mother at Chipping Norton". He also recorded the date of birth of Kelley's wife which is the same as that of Joanna Cooper, wife of John Weston. John died in May 1582 and Kelley got married between April and early July 1583.

One point to the contrary of that solution is that Westonia's age at birth given on her tomb in Prague corresponds to 2 November 1582, while the records of St Mary the Virgin in Chipping Norton have Elizabeth Weston listed "at some point between the legible entries of 4 March and 31 October 1581" (I quote from Prof. Susan Bassnett's paper, who did the parish records research). But birthdates on tombstones are more likely to be incorrect.

Best regards,

Rafal

[Rafał T. Prinke]

W dniu czwartek, 27 sierpnia 2015 22:48:13 UTC+2 użytkownik ravinma...@yahoo.com napisał:
> None of this seems very well established, as we find ... "Elizabeth Weston's mother was named Joanna. She knew Latin well, according to her daughter, which may militate against Susan Bassnett's suggestion that was the Joan Cooper who married Edward Kelley. Joan Cooper may or may not have been the mother of John Francis Weston, born in 1580, and Elizabeth Jane, born in 1582."
>
> https://books.google.com/books?id=EynvtQmeW-kC&pg=PA132&dq=%22edward+kelley%22+weston&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0CC8Q6AEwAWoVChMIo9GHvo_KxwIVgpkeCh0GwwyZ#v=onepage&q=%22edward%20kelley%22%20weston&f=false
>
> Read the whole paragraph, which seems to heap much doubt on the entire scenario as reconstructed by Bassnett.


Yes, I know that -- the author here follow the earlier thesis of Louise Schleiner that Kelley married Lady Weston in Prague, while Joanna Cooper was his first wife. But note that the only "source" to support it is the book in Czech by Vaclav Kaplicky which they call "a biography". In fact, it is a novel published in 1980 (I have a copy) and it seems kind of shocking that it was used by Schleiner as a source for her reconstruction (and accepted by at least one more scholar, besides the editors of the book you quote). Note also that Schleiner's version was published earlier and then questioned by Bassnett with her research in the "real" sources :)

While calling the Bassnett reconstruction "very well established" may well be going too far, it certainly is much more convincing to me. One may also argue that the ODNB entry does represent the "well established" version -- and it is Bassnett's (written by co-editor of Westonia's poems).

But these doubts are indeed what made me try to have another look at it :)

Best regards,

Rafal

[Rafał T. Prinke]

Also note that Louise Schleiner actually accepted (party at least) Bassnett's reconstruction in her later account of Westonia in "Tudor and Stuart Women Writers" -- but still arguing that Kaplicky's novel is relevant!

Best regards,

Rafal

[Rafał T. Prinke]

W dniu piątek, 28 sierpnia 2015 00:22:25 UTC+2 użytkownik ravinma...@yahoo.com napisał:
> On Thursday, August 27, 2015 at 6:19:00 PM UTC-4, ravinma...@yahoo.com wrote:
> > Here is the register of Chipping Norton, which seems to show none of these events:
> >
> > https://books.google.com/books?id=-0JbAAAAQAAJ&pg=PP1&dq=chipping+norton+baptisms&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0CD0Q6AEwBGoVChMIl4qBpqTKxwIVSKoeCh1VPQ5b#v=onepage&q=chipping%20norton%20baptisms&f=false
> >
> > Are there surviving Bishops' Transcripts which show something different?
>
> ... Except for the burial of John Weston, clerk, 1582.

Yes, I've seen that but it is certainly not a complete listing of church records.

[Rafał T. Prinke]

Dear Colleagues,

As there was relatively little interest in the topic, I have compiled a pedigree table of the Westons for reference:

http://main5.amu.edu.pl/~rafalp/westons-2.pdf

It seems quite probable to me -- assuming that the arms on her tomb was not an usurpation -- that the poet Westonia and her father John (presumably of Chipping Norton, Oxfordshire) were among the descendants of William, mercer of London, who purchased Prested Hall died in 1515. Of the four sons listed in his will, William, fellow of Oxford U., was suggested by Louise Schleiner as a possible father or grandfather of Westonia's father. This must be rejected because fellows were not allowed to marry until the 1860's (!).

The fourth son John was (acc. to Wright and Morant) the father of Sir Richard, the Judge (bef.1527-1572) and had only one sister -- so may also be provisionally rejected, if that parentage is accepted.

Alternatively, Bindoff in "The House of Commons" (1982) stated that Sir Richard the Judge was the third son of Richard of Prested Hall (d. 1541), the first son of William. In March 2014 Douglas Richardson convincingly showed that it was incorrect:

http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/read/GEN-MEDIEVAL/2014-03/1393912932

It is not clear whether Bindoff was right in ascribing (at least) three sons to Richard of Prested Hall. If so, then one of them was another Richard, to whom the "Tymperleys" house was granted in 1547/48, and amother one must have been John, "pentioner" to Henry VIII, to whom the Visitations of London 1633 erronously ascribed as wife Elizabeth, later mother of William Gilbert (1544-1603) -- unless this John is identical with either Richard, his father or brother on my pedigree.

Finally, there is the third son of WIlliam, mercer of London, named in his father's will -- Thomas, of whom I could not find anything.

Because Richard Weston of Shotley (d. 1601), son of John, who apparently inherited the "Tymperleys" house and granted it to Dr. William Gilbert in 1583, was a clerk like Westonia's father, and because the naming patterns within this branch certainly allow for another John -- I would think it highly probable that he may have even been Richard of Shotley's brother.

Any comments will be appreciated!

Best regards,

Rafal

[Rafał T. Prinke]

>
> http://main5.amu.edu.pl/~rafalp/westons-2.pdf
>

Slightly corrected version replaced on 30 Aug.

Best regards,

Rafal

[Rafał T. Prinke]

A new augmented version of the Westons' pedigree just posted on 31 Aug -- with links to Anne Boleyn and to John Winthrop:

http://main5.amu.edu.pl/~rafalp/westons-2.pdf

Best regards,

Rafal