MOTHER OF ADELIZA (ALICE) de TOENI
PEhle...@aol.com
which wife?
Wife # 1: Adele Borell de Barcelona, daughter of Ramon Borrell, Count of
Barcelona
OR
Wife # 2: Godeheut (Godehilde) 995-AFT. 1077
Your help is much appreciated.
Regards
Phyllis in Louisiana
Leo van de Pas
According to Schwennicke's Europaische Stammtafeln
Band III, teilband 4, page 705
Roger de Conches fathered all his children by his first
wife NN of Barcelona, daughter of Ramon Borrell, Count of
Barcelona, and Ermesinde de Carcassonne.
By two sons is a surname given : Raoul III de Tosny, or
de Conches, and the youngest son is Robert de Stafford.
All other children (without surname) could/should be named
like their father 'de Conches'. Adeliza (Alice) was buried
in Lire Abbey; married William FitzOsbern, 1.Earl of Hereford, Seigneur de
Breteuil, killed in battle 20 February 1071 in Cassel.
Hope this helps.
Best wishes
Leo van de Pas
William Marshall
>
> Adeliza (Alice) de Toeni was the daughter of Roger de Toeni (990-1038) and
> which wife?
> Wife # 1: Adele Borell de Barcelona, daughter of Ramon Borrell, Count of
> Barcelona
> OR
> Wife # 2: Godeheut (Godehilde) 995-AFT. 1077
>
ES III-705 shows all children of Roger de Toeni being of first wife
N v Barcelona T v Ramon Borrell Gf v B u Ermensinde de Carcassonne
Bill Marshall
w...@research.att.com
Todd A. Farmerie
>
> Adeliza (Alice) de Toeni was the daughter of Roger de Toeni (990-1038) and
> which wife?
> Wife # 1: Adele Borell de Barcelona, daughter of Ramon Borrell, Count of
> Barcelona
> OR
> Wife # 2: Godeheut (Godehilde) 995-AFT. 1077
>
This remains difficult. (The following is from memory, but should give
you some idea of the problem.) Roger was exiled, and ended up
"crusading" in and around Barcelona. Sources from that area report that
he married a (unnamed) daughter of the countess of Barcelona (widow of
Ramon Borrell). Norman sources only show him married to a Godeheut, who
as his widow remarried. What gives then? Was Adele his first wife and
Godeheut his second? Was Godeheut the norman name for the Barcelona
princess? Is the Barcelona search wrong in stating that they married?
Helpful in solving the question would appear to be Berenger Hispina de
Toeny. I think it safe to conclude that he owed his name to this
marriage (and I have often wondered if Hispina wasn't a garbled 'of
Spain'). Unfortunately, his parentage is also in question. A recent
account of the Tosny family showed him as son of Roger and Adelaide, but
Evans, in his paper of Todeny de Belvoir showed him as belonging to that
branch, and suggested that a second Toeny married down south.
Keats-Rohan seems to accept the marriage, and that Adelaide was mother
of Roger's children, but I will have to go back and reread the details
to be more precise on her views.
taf
Benjamin Hertzel
> PEhle...@aol.com wrote:
> >
> > Adeliza (Alice) de Toeni was the daughter of Roger de Toeni (990-1038) and
> > which wife?
> > Wife # 1: Adele Borell de Barcelona, daughter of Ramon Borrell, Count of
> > Barcelona
>
> N v Barcelona T v Ramon Borrell Gf v B u Ermensinde de Carcassonne
Any further information on Ramon or Ermensinde?
Benjamin