Princess Dianna cousin
Lady Lori Spencer-Churchill
I am a cousin to Princess Dianna, and Sir Winston Churchill. I have
Acute Intermittant Porphyria. I was born with it. Yet, I enjoy being
called a Vampire, as I have a good scense of humor.
Cheers!
canberra
In the Spencer Churchill family I cannot find a Lori, let alone a Lady Lori.
If you are a cousin, surely you would know how to spell the first name of
the late Princess of Wales.
Your disease I also find puzzling, Porphyria is an inherited disease and I
wonder from where you would have inherited it. Also the term you use, I find
strange but then I do not know very much about medical terms
Acute(disease) = one that comes to a crisis
Intermittant= to stop for a while
Best wishes
Leo van de Pas
Sam Sloan
Actually, I do not remember calling you or anybody else a vampire, but it
is always possible that I did.
Can you refresh my recollection.
Would you mind telling me how you are their cousin, because I have created
an online family tree of royal family members?
Sam Sloan
Renia
which has manifested itself in other members of the royal family who descend
from him.
Acorrding to Lori's web site, she is the daughter of Sir Michael
Spencer-Churchill, for whom I can find no reference, either. They both appear to
be American.
Renia
Rick Eaton
to boarding school here in the U.S., in the 50s, with a who
was legitimately related to the Churchills and Spencers, as
I recall. That, however, is a very vague memory and,
obviously, was and is totally undocumented by me.
I will repeat an idea made at the time of the disgusting
antisemitic posting of late: If this list were only
minimally, and I mean minimally, moderated, then spammers
could be banned and we would not have to worry about Lori
and her diseases. Her painting does not appear to be all
that excellent either. It appears that her promoters are
simply trying to trade on her name.
Rick Eaton
Voice: 203.453.6261 Fax:203.453.0076
----------
>From: Renia <ren...@ntlworld.com>
>To: GEN-MED...@rootsweb.com
>Subject: Re: Princess Dianna cousin
>Date: Sat, Feb 23, 2002, 3:41 AM
Sam Sloan
painting.
Are you familiar with that person?
I am trying to figure out if her claims are fake or real. My reaction is
that her claims are fake, but I would like further input.
Sam Sloan
Sam Sloan
The question is: If she was such a close friend of Princess Diana, why have
we never heard of her before?
Sam Sloan
Lady Lori: Roguish Royal Rebel Honors Princess
Reproduced from "The Torch" Arts & Entertainment
By Cindia Carrere
What does a royal expatriate do when the one year anniversary of the death
of her beloved
cousin, Princess Diana is approaching? If she is Lady Lori
Spencer-Churchill, she throws a
party, a loving tribute to the Queen of Hearts who Lady Lori knew as a dear
friend and her
greatest supporter. It was also an opportunity for invited guests to view
Lady Lori's latest
artistic creations.
On August 22, 1998, a celebration of life and beauty was held on the
Spencer Estate in
Sausalito, California.
At 08:41 AM 2/23/2002 +0000, Renia wrote:
Janet Ariciu
I was told he was also called Earl of Aubrey Nothumbria date for him was abt
1086.
Could this family be related to William Awbrey, of Aberkynfrig, county
Brecknock, Wales? date 1209.
This William, as I was told, family could be:
Reginald Awbrey, Earl of (three or four words unreadable) in France
"Reginald Awbrey, earl of _____ in France. This is probably Alberic, Earl of
Bullen and Dammartin. He was a brother to Saunders de Sancto Alberico, the
first Awbrey in Britain. --Lewis Dwnn, Visitation of Wales --Llyfr Achau"
| Sant Awbrey, came with Wm Conqueror "Saunders de Sancto Alberico, brother
of the aforementioned Alberic, was a contemporary of William I. --from an
ancient chronicle in All Souls College, Oxford"
| Sir Reynald Awbrey, m. Isabel, d. to Rich of Brion L Clare "Sir Reginald
Awbrey, chief knight of Bernard Newmarche. He was rewarded the lordships of
Abercynrig and Slwch. He married, supposedly, Isabel de Clare. --Americans
of Gentle Birth, Hannah Pittman --Lloyd Manuscripts, H.W. Lloyd I do not
believe this Isabel to be identical to the Isabel that married John
Marshall. There were many Isabel de Clares and I think one of the less
notable ones married Sir Reginald Awbrey, mainly because the dates don't
match."
| Sir William Awbrey
| Thomas Awb. Lo. of Aberkynvrig & Slough, m. Joan, d. to Lo Baron of
(unreadable)
| Thomas Awbrey, Lo. of Aberkynvrig & Slough, m. Joan, d. to Trahaern ap
Einion (some words unreadable)
Children:
1. *William Awbrey, of Aberkynfrig, county Brecknock, Wales, married Julia
Gunter, daughter of Sir William Gunter, Knight. Their son
William AWBREY Birth: Abt. 1209 Wales William AWBREY Spouse: Joan GUNTER
Marriage: Abt. 1229 <>, , Wales
Please can anyone help me? I am I getting close or not?
Janet
Todd A. Farmerie
>
> Can anyone tell who "Aubrey of Coucy" was and lineage lines?
Based on the information you have provided, he probably was a
fiction invented by an uncritical or unscrupulous genealogist.
> I was told he was also called Earl of Aubrey Nothumbria date for him was abt
> 1086.
No such person existed.
> Reginald Awbrey, Earl of (three or four words unreadable) in France
> "Reginald Awbrey, earl of _____ in France. This is probably Alberic, Earl of
> Bullen and Dammartin. He was a brother to Saunders de Sancto Alberico, the
> first Awbrey in Britain. --Lewis Dwnn, Visitation of Wales --Llyfr Achau"
This account mixes three entirely unrelated uses of the name
Aubrey. One of the individuals has it as a surname, one as a
given name, and one as a tomonym (placename). This is the kind
of uncritical genealogy that has pervaded the field in the past.
This account is so completely devoid of truth, that it should be
ignored in its entirety.
> | Sant Awbrey, came with Wm Conqueror "Saunders de Sancto Alberico, brother
> of the aforementioned Alberic, was a contemporary of William I. --from an
> ancient chronicle in All Souls College, Oxford"
"Sanders de Sancto Alberico" is an impossible name, and no
brother of Aubrey, Count of Dammartin, could have accompanied
William the Conqueror.
taf
D. Spencer Hines
Source? Derivation?
"...from an ancient chronicle in All Souls College, Oxford"
Giveaway Line.
Deus Vult.
"Having taught in a university history department for more than 36 years
now, I would seek objectivity from anyone on the street before asking an
academic colleague in history." Norman Ravitch, Professor of History,
University of California, Riverside in _ The Wall Street Journal _, 5
Nov 1998, p. A23.
All replies to the newsgroup please. Thank you kindly.
All original material contained herein is copyright and property of the
author. It may be quoted only in discussions on this forum and with an
attribution to the author, unless permission is otherwise expressly
given, in writing.
--
D. Spencer Hines
Lux et Veritas et Libertas
Vires et Honor.
"Todd A. Farmerie" <farm...@interfold.com> wrote in message
news:3C77E7E1...@interfold.com...
Sam Sloan
If she is who she claims to be, why are not the British writing about her?
Sam Sloan
Arthur Murata
other, but I can tell you something of Sausilito. It is on
the opposite end of the Golden Gate Bridge from San
Francisco. It is like a village built on a steep hillside
down to the bay where people with a great deal of money
live in houseboats. It is, as they used to say, "Bohemian".
This is the word used at one time to describe people who
were like beatniks - the artist salons, the peacock feather
tickling sessions in hot-tubs (Sausilito is in Marin
County, yes, the place famous for those), the place where
people go to be seen at their most radical chic. The
residents like to give the image of living in rustic hovels
where they pursue their great art, but those rustic hovels
are reserved for the multi-millionaires and the shops along
the main road near the wharfs are the same ones you see on
Rodeo Drive in Beverly Hills. The real struggling artists,
who may or may not "make it" in the cut-throat world where
a living artist is just a hindrance to the middlemen (much
more useful after death when the prices can skyrocket) live
among other struggling people, invisible, in neighborhoods
that are likewise invisible throughout other parts of the
Bay Area. Most would not live in Sausilito even if they
could - it's for the tourists. - Bronwen
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Sports - Coverage of the 2002 Olympic Games
http://sports.yahoo.com
Renia
Spencer-Churchill's grandmother, then I wonder why she was not called
Spencer-Churchill as well?
I find it odd that Lady Lori's father, Michael was "knighted by NATO" (I have
never heard of NATO conferring knighthoods) and is now a Hollywood producer who
has received many Emmy nominations, but his name does not appear (as a Michael
Spencer or as a Michael Churchill) on the comprehensive international movie
online database based in the UK:
http://uk.imdb.com/
It is also odd that she styles herself as "Lady" Lori Spencer-Churchill. A "Lady"
is so styled informally for a marchioness, countess, viscountess or baroness. The
daughter of a duke, marquess or earl has lady prefixed to her Christian name and
surname. The wife of a younger son of a duke or marquess has lady prefixed to her
husband's Christian name and surname. The wife of a baronet or knight is commonly
known as lady with her husband's surname.
Lady Lori Spencer-Churchill can thus style herself as such, only if she is the
daughter of a duke, marquess or earl. She is neither the daughter of the Duke of
Marlborough nor the daughter of Earl Spencer, or any other duke or earl and is
unlikely to be the daughter of some unknown marquess relation to the
Spencer-Churchills.
The nearest relation that Lori Spencer-Churchill can be to the Dukes of
Marlborough, particularly if (on her web site) she claims herself to be a
great-niece of Sir Winston Churchill (grandson of the 7th duke) is to descend
from Sir Winston's brother, John Strange Spencer-Churchill (born 1880), who
married twice. His first wife was Gwendoline Bertie, daughter of 7th Earl of
Abingdon, by whom he had one son, John George Spencer Churchill, born 1909, who
married Angela Seymour, and they had one daughter, Sarah Cornelia, born 1935.
John Strange Spencer Churchill's second wife was Mary Cookson, by whom he had two
children, Henry Winston and Anne Clarissa. I do not know what became of Henry,
but Anne married Sir Anthony Eden, British Prime Minister and 1st Earl of Avon.
If Lori Spencer-Churchill came from this branch of the family, I think her name
and her father's name would be familiar ones in British Society, but I have never
heard of them.
As to the cousinship with Princess Diana, this would be a bit distant. Lady Diana
Spencer and Sir Winston Churchill were 6th cousins once removed (if I have my
calculations correct) so any cousinhood between Princess Diana and Lori
Spencer-Churchill is even more far removed than that and I doubt it would have
been of close enough a nature to warrant a particular friendship. Much of the
British aristocracy is so intermarried during this period, that they can probably
all claim cousinship of one sort or another.
It would be interesting for Lori to clarify all this.
Renia
D. Spencer Hines
Renia Simmonds ---- 'Renia The Soi-Disant Argus-Eyed'
---------Cordon Sanitaire---------------
Balderdash and Codswallop! She does NOT "have her calculations
correct."
Incredible!
Not only do I have to teach indolent Brits who are ignorant of their own
History ---- British History [N.B. Certainly not all Brits are
ignorant ---- the Real Brits are not. ---- DSH] ---- but now I must
teach them British Genealogy as well.
Sir Winston and Diana are 5th Cousins, twice removed ---- closer.
Veni, Vidi, Calcitravi Asinum.
"Populus vult decipi, ergo decipiatur. Odi profanum vulgus et arceo."
Quintus Aurelius Stultus [33 B.C. - 42 A.D.]
All replies to the newsgroup please. Thank you.
All original material contained herein is copyright and property of the
author. It may be quoted only in discussions on this forum and with an
attribution to the author, unless permission is otherwise expressly
given, in writing.
D. Spencer Hines
Renia
Renia
D. Spencer Hines
Do you know who the common ancestors are?
With Fond Affection,
Spencer
<g>
"Populus vult decipi, ergo decipiatur. Odi profanum vulgus et arceo."
Quintus Aurelius Stultus [33 B.C. - 42 A.D.]
All replies to the newsgroup please. Thank you.
All original material contained herein is copyright and property of the
author. It may be quoted only in discussions on this forum and with an
attribution to the author, unless permission is otherwise expressly
given, in writing.
D. Spencer Hines
Lux et Veritas et Libertas
Vires et Honor
"Renia" <ren...@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:3C7851AA...@ntlworld.com...
Sam Sloan
Sir Winston Spencer CHURCHILL British Prime Minister and Diana SPENCER are
6th cousins 1 time removed. Their common ancestors are Charles SPENCER
(1675-1722) and Anne CHURCHILL (1682-1716).
Is that right?
Sam Sloan
D. Spencer Hines
There is a closer relationship ---- 5th cousins, twice removed.
Deus Vult.
"Populus vult decipi, ergo decipiatur. Odi profanum vulgus et arceo."
Quintus Aurelius Stultus [33 B.C. - 42 A.D.]
All replies to the newsgroup please. Thank you.
All original material contained herein is copyright and property of the
author. It may be quoted only in discussions on this forum and with an
attribution to the author, unless permission is otherwise expressly
given, in writing.
D. Spencer Hines
Lux et Veritas et Libertas
Vires et Honor
"Sam Sloan" <sl...@ishipress.com> wrote in message
news:3.0.6.32.2002022...@ishipress.com...
Sam Sloan
>No ---- Incomplete.
>
>There is a closer relationship ---- 5th cousins, twice removed.
OK. I give up. What is the answer?
D. Spencer Hines
below the salt.
In short, Sloan is small potatoes ---- and smaller beer.
Now, if Renia 'the Argus-Eyed', were to ask me, politely ---- I'll post
the common ancestors ---- unless someone else would prefer to do so
first.
Deus Vult.
D. Spencer Hines
Vires et Honor
D. Spencer Hines
Sloan still fails to understand his place here ---- which is *well*
below the salt.
In short, Sloan is small potatoes ---- and smaller beer.
Now, if Renia 'The Argus-Eyed', were to ask me, politely ---- I'll post
canberra
of Uxbridge.
Leo van de Pas
----- Original Message -----
From: "D. Spencer Hines" <D._Spence...@aya.yale.edu>
To: <GEN-MED...@rootsweb.com>
Sent: Sunday, February 24, 2002 3:42 PM
Subject: Re: Diana, Princess of Wales's Cousin?
> No ---- Incomplete.
>
> There is a closer relationship ---- 5th cousins, twice removed.
>
> Deus Vult.
>
> "Populus vult decipi, ergo decipiatur. Odi profanum vulgus et arceo."
>
> Quintus Aurelius Stultus [33 B.C. - 42 A.D.]
>
> All replies to the newsgroup please. Thank you.
>
> All original material contained herein is copyright and property of the
> author. It may be quoted only in discussions on this forum and with an
> attribution to the author, unless permission is otherwise expressly
> given, in writing.
>
> D. Spencer Hines
>
> Lux et Veritas et Libertas
>
> Vires et Honor
>
> "Sam Sloan" <sl...@ishipress.com> wrote in message
> news:3.0.6.32.2002022...@ishipress.com...
>
> | OK, All youse geniuses out there, here is what I get:
> |
> | Sir Winston Spencer CHURCHILL British Prime Minister and Diana SPENCER
> are
> | 6th cousins 1 time removed. Their common ancestors are Charles
> SPENCER
> | (1675-1722) and Anne CHURCHILL (1682-1716).
> |
> | Is that right?
> |
> | Sam Sloan
> |
> | At 03:30 AM 2/24/2002 -0000, D. Spencer Hines wrote:
>
D. Spencer Hines
Good Show, Leo.
4th Cousins, twice removed.
The common ancestors being Henry [formerly Bayly] Paget, [1744-1812],
3rd Earl [overall, although the 1st Earl of a new creation ---- DSH] of
Uxbridge, and Jane Champagne [1742-1817], daughter of The Very Reverend
Arthur Champagne, Dean of Clonmacnoise.
The son of the 3rd Earl of Uxbridge, Henry William Paget, the 4th Earl,
commanded the Anglo-Belgian cavalry at Waterloo and lost a leg there.
There's a rather famous story surrounding that incident, which perhaps
David Read will tell us. Rest assured that Sir Winston knew the story
too ---- although this 4th Earl, is not the ancestor of Sir Winston. He
_is_ the ancestor of Diana ---- and was created Marquis of Anglesey,
three weeks after the action at Waterloo.
Deus Vult.
"Populus vult decipi, ergo decipiatur. Odi profanum vulgus et arceo."
Quintus Aurelius Stultus [33 B.C. - 42 A.D.]
All replies to the newsgroup please. Thank you.
All original material contained herein is copyright and property of the
author. It may be quoted only in discussions on this forum and with an
attribution to the author, unless permission is otherwise expressly
given, in writing.
D. Spencer Hines
Lux et Veritas et Libertas
Vires et Honor
"canberra" <leov...@bigpond.com> wrote in message
news:005301c1bc9e$88f50c20$15e0868b@leo...
| May I try? How about 4th cousins twice removed? Common ancestor the
| 1st Earl of Uxbridge.
| Leo van de Pas
|
| ----- Original Message -----
| From: "D. Spencer Hines" <D._Spence...@aya.yale.edu>
| To: <GEN-MED...@rootsweb.com>
| Sent: Sunday, February 24, 2002 3:42 PM
| Subject: Re: Diana, Princess of Wales's Cousin?
|
| > No ---- Incomplete.
| >
| > There is a closer relationship ---- 5th cousins, twice removed.
| >
| > Deus Vult.
| > "Sam Sloan" <sl...@ishipress.com> wrote in message
| > news:3.0.6.32.2002022...@ishipress.com...
| >
| > | OK, All youse geniuses out there, here is what I get:
| > |
| > | Sir Winston Spencer CHURCHILL British Prime Minister and Diana
SPENCER
| > are
| > | 6th cousins 1 time removed. Their common ancestors are Charles
| > SPENCER
| > | (1675-1722) and Anne CHURCHILL (1682-1716).
| > |
| > | Is that right?
| > |
| > | Sam Sloan
| > |
| > | At 03:30 AM 2/24/2002 -0000, D. Spencer Hines wrote:
| >
| > | >You are quite welcome, Renia 'The Argus-Eyed'.
| > | >
| > | >Do you know who the common ancestors are?
| > | >
| > | >With Fond Affection,
| > | >
| > | >Spencer
| > | >
| > | ><g>
David Read
<D._Spence...@aya.yale.edu> writes
>Indeed.
>
>Good Show, Leo.
>
>4th Cousins, twice removed.
>
>The common ancestors being Henry [formerly Bayly] Paget, [1744-1812],
>3rd Earl [overall, although the 1st Earl of a new creation ---- DSH] of
>Uxbridge, and Jane Champagne [1742-1817], daughter of The Very Reverend
>Arthur Champagne, Dean of Clonmacnoise.
>
>The son of the 3rd Earl of Uxbridge, Henry William Paget, the 4th Earl,
>commanded the Anglo-Belgian cavalry at Waterloo and lost a leg there.
>
>There's a rather famous story surrounding that incident, which perhaps
>David Read will tell us. Rest assured that Sir Winston knew the story
>too ---- although this 4th Earl, is not the ancestor of Sir Winston. He
>_is_ the ancestor of Diana ---- and was created Marquis of Anglesey,
>three weeks after the action at Waterloo.
The fullest account I know of which describes this famous loss of limb
is to be found in the biography of the 1st Marquess Anglesey, written by
the 7th Marquess, and includes the following:-
"'Just as Sir H. Vivian's Brigade were going down to the charge,'
wrote Wildman the day after the battle, `Lord Uxbridge was struck by
a grape shot on the right knee which shattered the joint all to
pieces. I did not see him fall & went on to the charge, but soon
missed him and perceived Seymour taking him to the rear.' The Duke
told his brother William (also on the day after the battle) that
Uxbridge was wounded when talking to him `during the last attack,
almost by the last shot'. To Stanhope Wellington explained that he
was on the side from which the shot proceeded, and that it passed
over the neck of his horse till it reached Uxbridge. The Duke
supported him and prevented his falling from the saddle. `Writing as
a very old man, and thirty-seven years after the event, Uxbridge
himself remembered that he was hit 'in the low ground beyond La Haye
Sainte, and perhaps 1/4 of an hour before Dusk, at the moment when I
was quitting the Duke to join Vivian's Brigade of Hussars which I
had sent for, being the only fresh Corps I had'. In the popular
version Uxbridge exclaims `By God, sir, I've lost my leg!'
Wellington momentarily removes the telescope from his eye, considers
the mangled limb, says `By God, sir, so you have!' and resumes his
scrutiny of the victorious field." p.149
from _One-Leg: The Life and Letters of Henry William Paget,
First Marquess of Anglesey, K.G., 1768-1854_, Jonathan Cape 1961.
A direly punning comic verse, _Epitaph for the Tablet in Memory of the
Marquess of Anglesey's leg_ by Thomas Gaspey runs thus:-
Here rests, and let no saucy knave
Presume to sneer and laugh,
To learn that mouldering in the grave
Is laid a British _calf_.
For he who writes these lines is sure
That those who read the whole
Will find such laugh were premature,
For here, too, lies a _sole_.
And here five little ones repose,
Twin-born with other five;
Unheeded by their brother _toes_,
Who now are all _alive_.
A _leg_ and _foot_ to speak more plain
Lie here, of one commanding;
Who, though his wits he might retain,
Lost half his _understanding_.
And when the guns, with thunder fraught,
Pour'd bullets thick as hail,
Could only in this way be taught
To give his foe _leg-bail_.
And now in England, just as gay -
As in the battle brave -
Goes to the rout, review, or play,
_With one foot in the grave_.
Fortune in vain here showed her spite,
For he will still be found,
Should England's sons engage in fight,
Resolved to stand his _ground_.
But fortune's pardon I must beg,
She meant not to disarm;
And when she lopped the hero's leg
By no means sought his _h-arm_,
And but indulged a harmless whim,
Since he could walk with one,
She saw _two legs_ were lost on him
Who never meant to _run_.
............
Incidentally, the genealogical table included in this book has Jane
Champagné (not Champagne) as being born in 1746 rather than 1742.
cheers,
--
David Read
Renia
through their common ancestor, Charles Spencer, 3rd Earl of Sunderland,
without taking any other families into consideration. In that respect, the
relationship between Princess Diana and Sir Winston Churchill is 6th cousin
once removed (according to FTM's calculations). As I also said the
aristocracy at this time was much intermarried so they would be related
several times. Leo has kindly come up with the 1st Earl of Uxbridge as
common ancestor to a relationship of 4th cousins twice removed.
Love you too. :-)
Ian Cairns
<snip>
Are you certain of this?
I have Mary Cookson as the second wife of John George Spencer-Churchill
(31 May 1909-1992) rather than his father John Strange (Jack)
Spencer-Churchill (9 Feb 1880-23 Feb 1947)..
John George Spencer-Churchill married
(1) Angela Mary Culme-Seymour on 13 May 1934, div 1938. Children Sarah
Cornelia Spencer-Churchill, born 26 Mar 1935 who married James Colin
Crewe on 19 Nov 1957.
(2) Mary Cookson on 30 Apr 1941 div 1952. No children?
(3) Kathleen / Kathlyn Bedall in 1953. No children?
(4) Anna Gunvor Maria Janson on 27 Aug 1958. No children?
For John George's father, John Strange (Jack) Spencer-Churchill (9 Feb
1880-23 Feb 1947), I have:
He married:
Gwendeline Theresa Mary Bertie (20 Nov 1885-7 Jul 1941) on 8 Aug 1908
Children:
John George Spencer-Churchill (31 May 1909-1992, see above)
Henry Winston Spencer-Churchill (25 May 1913-?), who married (1)
Patricia Ethel Louise March on 15 Nov 1954. No children? Married (2)
Yvonne Henriette Marie Jehanin (born 25 May 1913) on 21 Dec 1957.No
children.
Anne Clarissa Spencer-Churchill (28 Jun 1920-) who married Anthony Eden,
PM & 1st Earl of Avon.
Mind you, at the end of the day, this Lori person is clearly not royal,
and is increasingly unlikely to be a real Spencer-Churchill, except
through a deed poll - given the lack of male Spencer-Churchill children
in the above..
Regards
Ian
<snip>
Ian Cairns
news:1014555692.29788....@news.demon.co.uk...
> 1880-23 Feb 1947), I have:
> He married:
> Gwendeline Theresa Mary Bertie (20 Nov 1885-7 Jul 1941) on 8 Aug 1908
> Children:
> John George Spencer-Churchill (31 May 1909-1992, see above)
> Henry Winston Spencer-Churchill (25 May 1913-?), who married (1)
> Patricia Ethel Louise March on 15 Nov 1954. No children? Married (2)
> Yvonne Henriette Marie Jehanin (born 25 May 1913) on 21 Dec 1957.No
> children.
> Anne Clarissa Spencer-Churchill (28 Jun 1920-) who married Anthony
Eden,
> PM & 1st Earl of Avon.
There is an Internet reference to Peregrine S Churchill, an active
octagenarian, who is a nephew of Winston Spencer-Churchill, and would
presumably be a fourth child of John Strange (Jack) and Gwendeline?
http://www.winstonchurchill.org/fh110riddles.htm
Renia
Cookson to the wrong man! She was 2nd wife of John George.
I don't think Lori is claiming to be royal, except with regard to being
cousin of Princess "Dianna" and having porphyria. I can't readily see where
her supposed Spencer-Churchill lineage fits in. We appear to have covered
everybody.
Renia
Renia
Lady Randolph Churchill which was a TV series by Julian Mitchell starring
Lee Remick. The fly note for the book says that Peregrine Spencer Churchill
was trained as an engineer and owns and runs (1974) a construction company
in Africa and the Middle East with a taste for travel and a fascination with
the Churchill family. The cover of the book reveals Peregrine to be grandson
of Jennie Churchill.
There is a web site giving details of the state funeral of Sir Winston
Churchill which mentions Peregrine Churchill in the family mourners. Neither
Lori nor her father are mentioned here.
http://www.havengore.com/havewsc.htm
Renia
Ian Cairns
> Slip of the keyboard. Thank you for pointing out that I had married
Mary
> Cookson to the wrong man! She was 2nd wife of John George.
>
> I don't think Lori is claiming to be royal, except with regard to
being
> cousin of Princess "Dianna" and having porphyria. I can't readily see
where
> her supposed Spencer-Churchill lineage fits in. We appear to have
covered
> everybody.
>
> Renia
>
Her website is covered with the phrase 'Royal Rebel' or 'Royal Rogue',
which she has clearly none nothing to avoid (assuming that she owns and
publishes her website) and apparently everything to encourage - reading
of her public relations exercises.
Whichever American she asked to write the website certainly knows how to
spell the name Diana. I would be surprised if a real royal would refer
to either the 'Queen of England' or 'Princess Diana Spencer'.
Still, at least she's an award-winning student of human anatomy...
Ian
D. Spencer Hines
However, Leo's relationship is the closest.
I intend to go with that.
Cheers,
"Populus vult decipi, ergo decipiatur. Odi profanum vulgus et arceo."
Quintus Aurelius Stultus [33 B.C. - 42 A.D.]
All replies to the newsgroup please. Thank you.
All original material contained herein is copyright and property of the
author. It may be quoted only in discussions on this forum and with an
attribution to the author, unless permission is otherwise expressly
given, in writing.
D. Spencer Hines
Lux et Veritas et Libertas
Vires et Honor
"Renia" <ren...@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:3C78C95D...@ntlworld.com...
Rick Eaton
Are the surnames Noble, le Noble and Nobles likely to
describe the original bearers' titles or character.
Does anyone have of the name, residing in London (as a
merchant tailor and Guild member) in the late 1500s and
early 1600s. Later, there is residency in Leicestershire.
My wife is a Noble. We searched and found one ancestor at
the Guild Hall Library.
Rick Eaton
Voice: 203.453.6261 Fax:203.453.0076
Rick Eaton
Voice: 203.453.6261 Fax:203.453.0076
Renia
Doubtless from a long line of Nobles. It's quite a common
surname in England. In 1881 there were almost 13,000 of them.
Renia
D. Spencer Hines
1. Yes, CP has the surname as both Champagne and Champagné, in
different places.
2. CP has Jane as born in 1742 and dying in her 75th year, in 1817. CP
X:289. She died in Bolton Row.
3. The 4th Earl of Uxbridge [later Marquess of Anglesey] also seems to
have excelled at Corunna, commanding the Cavalry, for Sir John Moore.
He lived on until 1854 ---- outliving Wellington. When he died, he was
the only Field Marshal in the Army, with the exception of the Royal
Family. He was buried in Lichfield Cathedral.
4. Wonderful verse.
5. In Sergei Bondarchuk's marvellous film, _Waterloo_, often derided by
ignorant pogues and Milk Dud Warriors, Jack Hawkins plays Henry Paget,
4th Earl of Uxbridge.
6. Hawkins does an outstanding job, as he always does ---- particularly
in the scene where he loses the leg. Christopher Plummer, as
Wellington, plays the popular punch-line just right ---- mounted and
standing close to Uxbridge ---- making the point that Wellington could
just have easily taken the shot.
7. Of note, Jack Hawkins reportedly lost his larynx to cancer in 1966
and had other actors dub his lines after that ---- including _Waterloo_
[1971]. He died two years later in 1973.
8. Stalwart. Real Brit Indeed.
9. Who can forget Jack Hawkins as Captain Ericson in _The Cruel Sea_
[1953], a classic about Real Brits, not pollywogs and scruffy little
socialists. <g> Eric Ambler wrote the screenplay ---- based on the
novel by Nicholas Monsarrat, of course.
Cheers.
"Populus vult decipi, ergo decipiatur. Odi profanum vulgus et arceo."
Quintus Aurelius Stultus [33 B.C. - 42 A.D.]
All replies to the newsgroup please. Thank you.
All original material contained herein is copyright and property of the
author. It may be quoted only in discussions on this forum and with an
attribution to the author, unless permission is otherwise expressly
given, in writing.
D. Spencer Hines
Lux et Veritas et Libertas
Vires et Honor
"David Read" <da...@dreadful.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:R3tp7DAC...@dreadful.demon.co.uk...
William Black
D. Spencer Hines <D._Spence...@aya.yale.edu> wrote in message
news:eCbe8.476$7l5....@eagle.america.net...
> 5. In Sergei Bondarchuk's marvellous film, _Waterloo_, often derided by
> ignorant pogues and Milk Dud Warriors, Jack Hawkins plays Henry Paget,
> 4th Earl of Uxbridge.
I didn't think he directed it, I thought he only did the battle scenes.
I think the technical term is 'Second unit director'
Films, despite the Hollywood publicity machine, belong to the director.
--
William Black
------------------
On time, on budget, or works;
Pick any two from three
David Read
<D._Spence...@aya.yale.edu> writes
>Capital!
>
>1. Yes, CP has the surname as both Champagne and Champagné, in
>different places.
>
>2. CP has Jane as born in 1742 and dying in her 75th year, in 1817. CP
>X:289. She died in Bolton Row.
>
>3. The 4th Earl of Uxbridge [later Marquess of Anglesey] also seems to
>have excelled at Corunna, commanding the Cavalry, for Sir John Moore.
Although he had brilliantly commanded the rearguard during the retreat
to Corunna, the cavalry, together with Sir Henry Paget himself, did not
take part in the battle of 16th January, because they had already
embarked ship and set sail for England. His affair and elopement with
Wellington's sister-in-law ensured that he would not see active service
in the Iberian Peninsula again.
>He lived on until 1854 ---- outliving Wellington. When he died, he was
>the only Field Marshal in the Army, with the exception of the Royal
>Family. He was buried in Lichfield Cathedral.
>
>4. Wonderful verse.
>
>5. In Sergei Bondarchuk's marvellous film, _Waterloo_, often derided by
>ignorant pogues and Milk Dud Warriors, Jack Hawkins plays Henry Paget,
>4th Earl of Uxbridge.
>
>6. Hawkins does an outstanding job, as he always does ---- particularly
>in the scene where he loses the leg. Christopher Plummer, as
>Wellington, plays the popular punch-line just right ---- mounted and
>standing close to Uxbridge ---- making the point that Wellington could
>just have easily taken the shot.
>
>7. Of note, Jack Hawkins reportedly lost his larynx to cancer in 1966
>and had other actors dub his lines after that ---- including _Waterloo_
>[1971]. He died two years later in 1973.
>
>8. Stalwart. Real Brit Indeed.
>
>9. Who can forget Jack Hawkins as Captain Ericson in _The Cruel Sea_
>[1953], a classic about Real Brits, not pollywogs and scruffy little
>socialists. <g> Eric Ambler wrote the screenplay ---- based on the
>novel by Nicholas Monsarrat, of course.
In fact, Jack Hawkins played Sir Thomas Picton in the film _Waterloo_;
Terence Alexander played the Earl of Uxbridge. Pretty good casting all
round, in my view.
cheers,
--
David Read
D. Spencer Hines
"Populus vult decipi, ergo decipiatur. Odi profanum vulgus et arceo."
Quintus Aurelius Stultus [33 B.C. - 42 A.D.]
All replies to the newsgroup please. Thank you.
All original material contained herein is copyright and property of the
author. It may be quoted only in discussions on this forum and with an
attribution to the author, unless permission is otherwise expressly
given, in writing.
D. Spencer Hines
Lux et Veritas et Libertas
Vires et Honor
"David Read" <da...@dreadful.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:zeCxBAA9...@dreadful.demon.co.uk...
| In article <eCbe8.476$7l5....@eagle.america.net>, D. Spencer Hines
| <D._Spence...@aya.yale.edu> writes
| >Capital!
| >
| >1. Yes, CP has the surname as both Champagne and Champagné, in
| >different places.
Champagné, to say the least, is rather infra dig ---- but, people will
do that sort of thing.
| >2. CP has Jane as born in 1742 and dying in her 75th year, in 1817.
| >CP X:289. She died in Bolton Row.
Therefore, NOT born in 1746.
| >3. The 4th Earl of Uxbridge [later Marquess of Anglesey] also seems
to
| >have excelled at Corunna, commanding the Cavalry, for Sir John Moore.
|
| Although he had brilliantly commanded the rearguard during the
retreat
| to Corunna, the cavalry, together with Sir Henry Paget himself, did
not
| take part in the battle of 16th January, because they had already
| embarked ship and set sail for England. His affair and elopement with
| Wellington's sister-in-law ensured that he would not see active
service
| in the Iberian Peninsula again.
Fair Enough. CP states that the Earl "distinguished himself...when
commanding the Cavalry, at Corunna, under Sir John Moore." CP X:139.
That may or may not be correct. What is your quotation and source?
Yes! However, Bondarchuk has HIM losing the leg and then Wellington's
suave riposte, as I recall, but I may be mistaken. Do you recall for
sure, or someone else?
Excellent Film ---- much under-appreciated by wuss American critics, who
find it insufficiently Anti-War ---- for 1971 ---- when that was the
politically-correct Hollywood view ---- which endures to this day.
Deus Vult.
DSH
D. Spencer Hines
Waterloo?
Sam Sloan
>I would be surprised if a real royal would refer
>to either the 'Queen of England' or 'Princess Diana Spencer'.
Could you explain why that is?
Sam Sloan
David Read
<D._Spence...@aya.yale.edu> writes
>
>"David Read" <da...@dreadful.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
>news:zeCxBAA9...@dreadful.demon.co.uk...
>
>| In article <eCbe8.476$7l5....@eagle.america.net>, D. Spencer Hines
>| <D._Spence...@aya.yale.edu> writes
>
>| >Capital!
>| >
>| >1. Yes, CP has the surname as both Champagne and Champagné, in
>| >different places.
>
>Champagné, to say the least, is rather infra dig ---- but, people will
>do that sort of thing.
It sounds like it.
>
>| >2. CP has Jane as born in 1742 and dying in her 75th year, in 1817.
>| >CP X:289. She died in Bolton Row.
>
>Therefore, NOT born in 1746.
Indeed. Should we be surprised that the 7th Marquess appears to have
got her birth year wrong ?
>
>Fair Enough. CP states that the Earl "distinguished himself...when
>commanding the Cavalry, at Corunna, under Sir John Moore." CP X:139.
>That may or may not be correct. What is your quotation and source?
Any number of sources will supply the answer, from the biography I have
quoted from to any decent account of the Peninsular War or the battle of
Corunna. The Complete Peerage is definitely incorrect on this matter,
even if it is correct about his mother's birthdate.
"He was not a witness to the battle of Corunna on the 16th, for he was
already at sea in H.M.S. Cossack when he heard the heavy fighting from
the heights above the town. The news of its success was brought out to
him by boat: at the same time he learned that his gallant chief had
fallen 'like nelson in the hour of victory." op. cit. p. 88
>| In fact, Jack Hawkins played Sir Thomas Picton in the film _Waterloo_;
>| Terence Alexander played the Earl of Uxbridge. Pretty good casting all
>| round, in my view.
<snip>
>
>Yes! However, Bondarchuk has HIM losing the leg and then Wellington's
>suave riposte, as I recall, but I may be mistaken. Do you recall for
>sure, or someone else?
I'm sure. You see Jack Hawkins (Picton) die with a curse on his lips,
killed with a bullet through his top hat, as he leads his division
forward against D'Erlon's corps. This is immediately before Terence
Alexander (Uxbridge) sends the British heavy cavalry forwards, which
Bondarchuk then shows as the Scots Greys in a long slow-motion sequence,
a distinct nod towards Lady Butler's painting of the charge, _Scotland
Forever!_
>
>Excellent Film ---- much under-appreciated by wuss American critics, who
>find it insufficiently Anti-War ---- for 1971 ---- when that was the
>politically-correct Hollywood view ---- which endures to this day.
>
>Deus Vult.
There were, of course, some anti-war scenes in the film, the most
obvious being where one confused Irish private leaves the safety of a
square, raging to the heavens about why are men so beastly to one
another. He gets killed, naturally.
cheers,
--
David Read
D. Spencer Hines
Thank you.
Cheers,
"Populus vult decipi, ergo decipiatur. Odi profanum vulgus et arceo."
Quintus Aurelius Stultus [33 B.C. - 42 A.D.]
All replies to the newsgroup please. Thank you.
All original material contained herein is copyright and property of the
author. It may be quoted only in discussions on this forum and with an
attribution to the author, unless permission is otherwise expressly
given, in writing.
D. Spencer Hines
Lux et Veritas et Libertas
Vires et Honor
"David Read" <da...@dreadful.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:Md5OxGAR...@dreadful.demon.co.uk...
Ian Cairns
Because neither of them has/had or uses/used those titles.
Instead of England, try either United Kingdom or Great Britain (which
are both different from England). Here, it is simply "HM The Queen",
which is what I would have expected a 'Real Royal' to have used.
See http://www.debretts.co.uk/people/address.asp
Diana Frances Spencer was not a Princess until she married, by which
time she no longer used her maiden name Spencer.
Her final title was "Diana, Princess of Wales"
Ian
Renia
Because Lady Diana Spencer became The Princess of Wales. As a
Spencer, she was never a Princess because the Spencers are not
royal.
Everyone in England refers to The Queen as The Queen, even Prince
Charles. I've noticed that it's common parlance around the world
as well to refer to her as The Queen, as if there aren't any other
queens.
Renia
Sam Sloan
Was she still a princess after she divorced?
Sam Sloan
Ian Cairns
news:3.0.6.32.2002022...@ishipress.com...
> At 07:30 AM 2/25/2002 -0000, Ian Cairns wrote:
> >"Sam Sloan" <sl...@ishipress.com> wrote in message
> >news:3.0.6.32.2002022...@ishipress.com...
> >> At 03:13 PM 2/24/2002 -0000, Ian Cairns wrote:
> >>
> >> >I would be surprised if a real royal would refer
> >> >to either the 'Queen of England' or 'Princess Diana Spencer'.
> >>
> >> Could you explain why that is?
> >>
> >are both different from England). Here, it is simply "HM The Queen",
> >which is what I would have expected a 'Real Royal' to have used.
> >See http://www.debretts.co.uk/people/address.asp
> >
> >Diana Frances Spencer was not a Princess until she married, by which
> >time she no longer used her maiden name Spencer.
> >Her final title was "Diana, Princess of Wales"
>
Yes - see above. After all, had she lived long enough, she could well
have been the mother of a King.
Ian
D. Spencer Hines
Highness_, after the divorce.
Cousin Diana was severely miffed about it.
The Queen was clever about that.
Good For The Queen.
Deus Vult.
"Populus vult decipi, ergo decipiatur. Odi profanum vulgus et arceo."
Quintus Aurelius Stultus [33 B.C. - 42 A.D.]
All replies to the newsgroup please. Thank you.
All original material contained herein is copyright and property of the
author. It may be quoted only in discussions on this forum and with an
attribution to the author, unless permission is otherwise expressly
given, in writing.
D. Spencer Hines
Lux et Veritas et Libertas
Vires et Honor
"Ian Cairns" <ne...@cairnsfamily.org> wrote in message
news:1014657215.16293....@news.demon.co.uk...
Ian Cairns
> She remained Diana, Princess of Wales ---- but lost _Her Royal
> Highness_, after the divorce.
She was titled 'HRH The Princess of Wales' immediately before her
divorce, but was styled 'Diana, Princess of Wales' after her divorce.
There was no continuity of the _title_ 'Princess of Wales' (as in your
usage of 'remained'). The title 'Princess of Wales' would have been
given to whoever Charles chose to marry next (if any), whether or not
Diana had survived.
Ian
<snip>
D. Spencer Hines
You should be ashamed of yourself. Wash your brain out with soap.
She was _Her Royal Highness The Princess of Wales_.
The silly, slutty, airhead, Cousin Diana, and Prince Charles were
divorced.
Diana became simply ---- Diana, Princess of Wales.
Serves Her Right.
Good For The Queen.
Diana should have been styled as _Her Royal Lowness, Diana Airhead_ ----
or something quite similar.
Deus Vult.
"Populus vult decipi, ergo decipiatur. Odi profanum vulgus et arceo."
Quintus Aurelius Stultus [33 B.C. - 42 A.D.]
All replies to the newsgroup please. Thank you.
All original material contained herein is copyright and property of the
author. It may be quoted only in discussions on this forum and with an
attribution to the author, unless permission is otherwise expressly
given, in writing.
D. Spencer Hines
Lux et Veritas et Libertas
Vires et Honor
"Ian Cairns" <ne...@cairnsfamily.org> wrote in message
news:1014661492.1336.0.nnrp-
<baldersnip>
Ian Cairns
> Silly-Buggers Semantic Obfuscation.
>
> You should be ashamed of yourself. Wash your brain out with soap.
Any "Semantic Obfuscation" was not of my doing, and was common knowledge
here in the UK at the time. Hence _I_ have no regrets about my previous
accurate posting..
> She was _Her Royal Highness The Princess of Wales_.
>
> The silly, slutty, airhead, Cousin Diana, and Prince Charles were
> divorced.
>
> Diana became simply ---- Diana, Princess of Wales.
>
> Serves Her Right.
>
> Good For The Queen.
>
> Diana should have been styled as _Her Royal Lowness, Diana
Airhead_ ----
> or something quite similar.
Careful!! That's my wife's cousin about whom you're talking, and you'll
only start that Lori woman off again... Have you seen her publicity
stunts, as per her website?
'Cousin' Diana would not have been amused.
However, Diana _was_ actually styled as per my previous post...
Ian
<DSH baldersnip>
His Jadedness
>have been the mother of a King.
>
>Ian
>
>
She was NOT a princess after the divorce. She was allowed to use the style
"Diana, Princess of Wales" but it was neither a rank nor a title. The rank of
Princess was hers only due to the marriage and when it ended so did her
princesshood/
--
Andy. The Jaded Genealogist
PK had to give up phone sex- she couldn't find a reciever big enough to satisfy
her
D. Spencer Hines
We also have Sarah, Duchess of York ---- along the same lines.
Sarah, Duchess of Toe-Sucking would be more appropriate.
Deus Vult.
"Populus vult decipi, ergo decipiatur. Odi profanum vulgus et arceo."
Quintus Aurelius Stultus [33 B.C. - 42 A.D.]
All replies to the newsgroup please. Thank you.
All original material contained herein is copyright and property of the
author. It may be quoted only in discussions on this forum and with an
attribution to the author, unless permission is otherwise expressly
given, in writing.
D. Spencer Hines
Lux et Veritas et Libertas
Vires et Honor
"His Jadedness" <agh...@aol.comdejure> wrote in message
news:20020225160145...@mb-fv.aol.com...
Ian Cairns
news:20020225160145...@mb-fv.aol.com...
> >have been the mother of a King.
>
style
> "Diana, Princess of Wales" but it was neither a rank nor a title. The
rank of
> Princess was hers only due to the marriage and when it ended so did
her
> princesshood/
Thanks for the correction. I did have this right in my other posts.
Ian
D. Spencer Hines
You should know your limits. <g>
This is delicious!
So, _Diana, Princess of Wales_, when she died in 1997, and about whom so
many Brits ---- and Americans, and others ---- went absolutely barking
mad ---- was NOT even a Princess.
She was simply allowed by the crown to use the style "Diana, Princess of
Wales" ---- but it was neither a rank nor a title.
I love it.
Perfidious Albion strikes again.
No Truth In Advertising.
Smoke and Mirrors.
Fun And Games.
Remember that on your next tourist trip to Britain folks.
Hilarious!
Deus Vult.
"Populus vult decipi, ergo decipiatur. Odi profanum vulgus et arceo."
Quintus Aurelius Stultus [33 B.C. - 42 A.D.]
All replies to the newsgroup please. Thank you.
All original material contained herein is copyright and property of the
author. It may be quoted only in discussions on this forum and with an
attribution to the author, unless permission is otherwise expressly
given, in writing.
D. Spencer Hines
Lux et Veritas et Libertas
Vires et Honor
"Ian Cairns" <ne...@cairnsfamily.org> wrote in message
news:1014671790.9458.0...@news.demon.co.uk...
Renia
Yes. That is why she was known properly as Diana, Princess of Wales, and
informally as Princess Diana (which was never her correct style).
Renia
Arthur Murata
of that particular surname in England? Does it denote
ancestral nobility or an entirely unrelated profession or
name? Just idle,like I said. Slow, slow Monday. Best,
Bronwen
__________________________________________________
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J. A. Rea
"William Black" <black_...@hotmail.com> writes:
>
>D. Spencer Hines <D._Spence...@aya.yale.edu> wrote in message
>news:eCbe8.476$7l5....@eagle.america.net...
>
>> 5. In Sergei Bondarchuk's marvellous film, _Waterloo_, often derided by
>> ignorant pogues and Milk Dud Warriors, Jack Hawkins plays Henry Paget,
>> 4th Earl of Uxbridge.
>
>I didn't think he directed it, I thought he only did the battle scenes.
>
>I think the technical term is 'Second unit director'
>
>Films, despite the Hollywood publicity machine, belong to the director.
>
>--
passed off as Fontainebleau, the rent being cheaper, as were the
extras, including your humble servant. Also it was a joint Ital-Russ
production.
J. A. Rea