SP Correction: Elizabeth Sinclair (d. bef 1510) and her marriages
The...@aol.com
Hello All,
In the pedigree for Leslie, Earl of Rothes, the account of the
career of Sir Andrew Leslie, Master of Rothes identifies his wife
as
' Elizabeth, daughter of William, Earl of Orkney and
Caithness. ' [1]
Interestingly, the previously published pedigree for Sinclair,
Earl of Caithness shows no such (identified) daughter. Concerning
this gap, Andrew B. W. MacEwen advises that he has discovered the
correct relationship:
1. Elizabeth Sinclair was the daughter of William Sinclair,
Earl of Orkney (to 1470) and Caithness (from 1455), by
his first wife, Elizabeth Douglas, dau. of Archibald,
4th Earl of Douglas.
2. She was the full sister to William 'the Waster', eldest
son of Earl William and his wife Elizabeth Douglas; the
contract for her marriage to Andrew Leslie most likely
occurred ca. 29 April 1458, when there was a dispensation
for the marriage of her brother William ('the Waster') and
Christian/Christina Leslie, sister of Andrew Leslie [2].
3. Andrew Leslie, Master of Rothes, d.v.p. in 1471 or
shortly before [3]. Elizabeth Sinclair then married (2ndly)
Sir John Houstoun of that Ilk: she is erroneously 'lumped
in' with the issue of William Sinclair by his 2nd wife
Marjory Sutherland as ' 10. Elizabeth, married to the
Laird of Houston ' [4].
The 3-generation pedigree provides the corrected descent for the
issue of Sir John Houstoun of that Ilk and his wife Elizabeth Sinclair,
which affects certain known descendants (Alexander Hamilton for one),
but does not impact that of the subsequent lairds of Houstoun (their
descent allegedly by another wife of Sir John). This modifies the
biography of Elizabeth Sinclair, an ancestress of Prince Charles, but
does not affect HRH's ancestry insofar as I know.
Cheers,
John
NOTES (to post):
[1] SP VII:276, sub _Leslie, Earl of Rothes_.
[2] SP VII:569-570, sub _Sinclair, Lord Sinclair_.
[3] SP VII:275-6, concerning Andrew Leslie, states he died
'before [21] January 1477-78, when his son is named as heir
to his grandfather.' Donald Whyte, F.S.A., "The Houstouns of
Houstoun," The Scottish Genealogist, Vol XV, No. 4, Dec 1968,
86-92 shows Sir John Houstoun and Elizabeth Sinclair having
married in 1471.
[4] SP II:334, sub _Sinclair, Earl of Caithness_.
______________________________________________
1 William Sinclair
----------------------------------------
Death: bef 29 Mar 1482[1]
Occ: Earl of Caithness 1455-1476
Father: Sir Henry Sinclair (-<1418)
Mother: Egidia Douglas (-ca1438)
Earl of Orkney 1420 - 1470
traveled to Durham with James Douglas (of Balvenie, later E of
Douglas) and Alexander Livingston to meet King James on his return
to Scotland, 1424
royal councillor to James I
invested with earldom in Norway, 1434
Lord Sinclair, 1449 (and possibly before)[2]
invested with earldom of Caithness, 28 August 1455
surrendered rights to Orkney to King James III (due to his Danish
marriage), in exchange for the castle of Ravenscraig and other lands
in Fife, and reconfirmation in Earldom of Caithness, by charter
dated Edinburgh, 16 Sept 1470 [1]
inherited the lands of the barony of Harbertshire:
charter of ' William, Earl of Orkney, Lord of Harbertshire ' to
James, Lord Livingston, 25 Nov 1467 [Charter Chest/Wigtown,
p. 86, no. 718[3] ]
he m. 1stly Elizabeth Douglas,
2ndly Marjory Sutherland[4]
cf. Scots Peerage II:332-6, sub _Sinclair, Earl of Caithness_[1]
CP II:477-8[2]
Thompson and Hansen 3(2):175 #134[5]
Brown pp. 235, 238, 247[6]
Andrew B. W. MacEwen, TG 13:84-91[7]
Spouse: Elizabeth Douglas [1st wife]
Death: ca 1451
Father: Archibald Douglas, Earl of Douglas (-1424)
Mother: Margaret Stewart (-<1456)
Marr: 1432[7]
Children: William (->1487)
Elizabeth (-<1509)
Other Spouses Marjory Sutherland [2nd wife]
1.1a Elizabeth Sinclair*[1]
----------------------------------------
Death: bef 17 Apr 1509[1]
' Elizabeth, daughter of William, Earl of Orkney and Caithness. '
[SP VII:276[1], re: marriage to her first husband Sir Andrew
Leslie, Master of Rothes]
Genealogics I00026891[8]
duplicate I00368233[8]
identified by Andrew B. W. MacEwen as a daughter of William Sinclair
by his 1st wife, Elizabeth Douglas (and full sister to William
'the Waster'); not a dau. of his 2nd wife Marjory Sutherland, as
given in Scots Peerage and elsewhere.[4]
cf. Andrew B. W. MacEwen, TG 13:84-91[7]
~ As to her identification (as stated by Andrew MacEwen), the Leslie
account in Scots Peerage states [VII:276, note (7)[1]],
' Her name is usually given as Marjory, but it appears as Elizabeth
in the retour of her son George to his father, 17 April 1509.'
she m. 1stly Andrew Leslie, Master of Rothes,
2ndly Sir John Houstoun of that Ilk[7],[4]
cf. Scots Peerage II:334, sub _Sinclair, Earl of Caithness_[1]
Scots Peerage VII:276, sub _Leslie, Earl of Rothes_[1]
____________________________
probably 1st wife of Sir John Houstoun [Whyte, SG XXX:104[9]]
party with her six brothers and six sisters in charter granting lands
in Zetland to (natural?) brother, Sir David Sinclair
- Edinburgh, 3 Dec 1498 [1]
re: her husband Sir John Houstoun of that Ilk:
of Houstoun, co. Renfrew
held 1/2 of Lany [Lennie][1]
' Sir John Houstoun of that Ilk ',witness to an instrument taken
by Alexander Bruce, procurator alleging Robert, Lord Fleming
was infeft with the 40 merk land of Kirkintilloch (and not
Gilbert, Lord Kennedy), 'done in the Justiced Court of Dunbritton
before John, Earl of Argyle, Lord Campbell, and Robert, Lord Boyd,
Justices upon the south side of Forth, dated 15th February 1461.'
Witnesses: Alexander, Lord Montgomery; Robert, Lord Maxwell; John
Stewart, Lord Darnley; Alexander Cunyngham, Lord Kilmaurs; William
'of Douglas;' Sir John Houstoun of that Ilk, Sir William Sympill,
knights [Charter Chest/Wigtown p. 7, no. 31[10]]
' Sir John Houstoun of that Ilk ' , justice of the sheriffdom of
Dunbarton (together with William Sempill), 14 October 1465 [Charter
Chest/Wigtown, p. 8 no. 36[10] ]
identified in the pedigree of Sinclair, Earl of Caithness as
'the laird of Houstoun'[1]
cf. Andrew B. W. MacEwen, TG 13:84-91[7]
Spouse: Sir Andrew Leslie, Master of Rothes [1st husband]
Death: bef 1471, d.v.p.
Father: George Leslie, Earl of Rothes
Mother: Christian Haliburton
Children: John (-<1481)
George (ca1465-<1513)
William (ca1470-1513)
1.1a.1 John Leslie
----------------------------------------
Death: bef 23 Jun 1481, d.s.p.[1]
1.1a.2 George Leslie
----------------------------------------
Birth: ca 1465[8]
Death: bef 31 Mar 1513, d.s.p.[1]
Occ: Earl of Rothes
2nd Earl of Rothes
cf. SP VII:277-8 [Leslie, Earl of Rothes[1]]
Spouse: Jane Douglas
Father: George Douglas, Earl of Angus (-1463)
Mother: Isabel Sybbald
1.1a.3 William Leslie
----------------------------------------
Birth: ca 1470[8]
Death: 9 Sep 1513, Battle of Flodden[1]
Occ: Earl of Rothes
3rd Earl of Rothes
cf. SP VII:278-9 [Leslie, Earl of Rothes[1]]
1.1b Elizabeth Sinclair* (See above)
----------------------------------------
Spouse: Sir John Houstoun of that Ilk [2nd husband]
Death: bef 6 Jun 1491[9]
Father: Sir Patrick Houstoun (-<1458)
Mother: Agnes Campbell (-1456)
Marr: bef 1472[7],[9]
Children: Marion, m. William Fleming of Barrochan
Archibald (-<1491)
John
Robert
Agnes
Elizabeth
Margaret
1.1b.1 Marion Houstoun[9]
----------------------------------------
'Marion Houstoun' daughter of John Houstoun of Houstoun and Elizabeth
Sinclair: together with her husband William Fleming,
'had a charter of the £20 lands of old extent of Barrochan, and
others in Renfrewshire, 15th February, 1506/07 ' [Whyte XV:89,
cites Reg. Mag. Sig ii, No. 3058[9]]
re: her husband:
of Barrochan, co. Renfrew
sheriff of Lanark, 1488[11]
'one of the arbiters chosen to fix the boundaries between the lands
of the town of Renfrew and the regality of Paisley ', 1488
[Metcalfe p. 127, cites Reg. de Pas., 406[12] ]
'Wilzeame Flemyng of Barachan', together with John, Lord Sempill and
others had
" accione and caus persewit on the behalff of the Kingis hienes "
brought against them on behalf of John Ross, heir of Lord Ross of
Halkhead, 1 March 1501/2 [Collections II:78[13] ]
together with his wife Marion Houstoun,
'had a charter of the £20 lands of old extent of Barrochan, and
others in Renfrewshire, 15th February, 1506/07 ' (Whyte XV:89,
cites Reg. Mag. Sig ii, No. 3058[9])
evidently resigned certain lands in exchange at the same time: 3 days
later,
" Precept of Sasine by King James the Fourth, as Stewart of Scotland,
directed to Thomas, John and Archibald Crawfurd, John Bell and Nigel
Hyneman, as sheriffs in that part, for infefting Robert Crawfurd of
Kilbernie and Margaret Sympill, his spouse, in the half of the twenty
merk land of Easter Greenock, with mill, etc., in the barony and shire
of Renfrew, in terms of a charter to him and Margaret Sympill, his
spouse [see Registrum Magni Sigilli, vol. ii, No. 3062]; which lands
were formerly held in chief of the king by William Fleming of
Barrouchane, Crawfurd's superior, but were recognosced to the
hands of the king and released in favour of the said Robert
Crawfurd. Edinburgh, 18th February 1506-7 ." [Laing Charters,
pp. 66-67, No. 263[14] ]
cf. Nisbet I:151[15]
Spouse: William Fleming, laird of Barrochan
Death: 9 Sep 1513, Battle of Flodden[15]
Children: Peter (-1513)
James (-<1536), laird of Barrochan
1.1b.2 Archibald Houstoun
----------------------------------------
Death: bef 1491, d.v.p.[9]
1.1b.3 John Houstoun
----------------------------------------
1.1b.4 Robert Houstoun
----------------------------------------
1.1b.5 Agnes Houstoun
----------------------------------------
Spouse: Sir James Livingston, 3rd Lord Livingston
Father: Alexander Livingston
Marr: bef 6 Jun 1491[16]
1.1b.6 Elizabeth Houstoun
----------------------------------------
1.1b.7 Margaret Houstoun
----------------------------------------
1. Sir James Balfour Paul, ed., "The Scots Peerage," Edinburgh: David
Douglas, 1904-1914 (9 volumes).
2. G. E. Cokayne, "The Complete Peerage," 1910 - [microprint,
1982 (Alan Sutton) ], The Complete Peerage of England Scotland
Ireland Great Britain and the United Kingdom.
3. Andrew Stuart, "Genealogical History of the Stewarts," : from the
earliest period of their authentic history to the present times,
London: Printed for A. Strahan, and T. Cadell Jun. and W. Davies,
in the Strand, 1798, .pdf image files provided by Genealogy.com
www.genealogy.com, includes texts of dispensations relevant to the
Stewart family.
4. Andrew B. W. MacEwen, "telephone conference re: (1) corrections by
J. Ravilious to the pedigree of Fleming of Barrochan," (2) the
ancestry of Margaret Fleming, wife of James Cunyngham of
Ashenyeards, as corrected, and other matters, 1 February 2005,
notes, library of John P. Ravilious.
5. Neil D Thompson and Charles M Hansen, ""A Medieval Heritage: The
Ancestry of Charles II, King of England"," The Genealogist
a graphical summary of this ambitious project provided by the
Foundation for Medieval Genealogy, URL:
http://fmg.ac/Projects/CharlesII/.
6. Michael Brown, "The Black Douglases," East Linton: Tuckwell Press,
1998.
7. Andrew B. W. MacEwen, "SEVEN SCOTTISH COUNTESSES: A MISCELLANY, I.
Marjory Sutherland, Countess of Caithness and Orkney," The
Genealogist, Spring 1999 (Volume 13, No. 1), pp. 84-91, part of a
series on 'the Seven Scottish Countesses', identifies Marjory
Sutherland as the daughter of Alexander by his mistress Catherine
Chalmers, per telephone conference 28 October 2004, notes, library
of John P. Ravilious.
8. "Genealogics," website by Leo van de Pas, www.genealogics.com, cites
Europäische Stammtafeln, J.A. Stargardt Verlag Marburg., Detlev
Schwennicke, Editor, [ES], and other sources
9. Donald Whyte, F.S.A., "The Houstouns of Houstoun," The Scottish
Genealogist, Vol XV, No. 4, Dec 1968, 86-92 (to Gen. XIII - Peter
Houstoun of Houstoun, d. 1513 and his issue), Vol XVI, No. 3
(Sept 1969), pp. 53 et seq. (from Gen. XIV -Patrick Houstoun of
Houstoun, d. 1525), Vol XXX, No. 3 (Sept 1983), pp. 104-5 (Addenda
& Corrigenda to above and subsequent articles).
10. "Charter Chest of the Earldom of Wigtown, 1214-1681," Anonymous,
Edinburgh: Printed for the Society by J. Skinner & Co., 1910, .pdf
image files provided by Genealogy.com www.genealogy.com.
11. George Crawfurd, "The History of the Shire of Renfrew," Paisley:
Printed and sold by Alex. Weir, 1782, (originally, Edinburgh :
Printed by James Watson, 1710), [also as cited by Burke; and
Paisley Herald article, F of Barrochan], ' containing a
genealogical history of the royal house of Stewart,..'.
12. William M. Metcalfe, "A History of the County of Renfrew from
the Earliest Times," Paisley: Alexander Gardner, 1905, .pdf image
files provided by Genealogy.com www.genealogy.com.
13. "Archaeological and Historical Collections rel. to the County of
Renfrew," Paisley: Alexander Gardner, 1890 (2 Volumes), Vol. I,
pp. 160-163; Vol. II, pp. 18-45.
14. Rev. John Anderson, ed., "Calendar of the Laing charters AD
854-1837, belonging to the University of Edinburgh," Edinburgh: J.
Thin, 1899.
15. Alexander Nisbet, Gent., "A System of Heraldry," orig. pub.,
Edinburgh: 1722, Edinburgh: William Blackwood, 1816 (new edition),
Full Title: A System of Heraldry, Speculative and Practical: with
the True Art of Blazon,, according to the Most Approved Heralds in
Europe, Vol. I, p. 151 - Fleming of 'Barrochin' ; p. 194, biography
and arms of Robert Cunningham (or Cunyngham).
16. Andrew B. W. MacEwen, "letter dated 19 Nov 2004," re: citations
from RMS, Fraser's The Lennox and other sources, re: (1) Houstoun
of that Ilk, (2) Campbell of Loudoun, and other matters, notes,
library of John P. Ravilious.
* John P. Ravilious
Douglas Richardson
Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah
Website: www.royalancestry.net
al...@mindspring.com
Would 1.1b.7 Margaret Houstoun be the Margaret married to Robert Lyle,
2nd Lord aLyle and Andrew Gray, 2nd Lord Gray?
And was Margaret Semphill the 2nd wife of the John Houston who died in
1491?
Doug Smith
PS - truly excellent post as always.
WJho...@aol.com
<< Spouse: Elizabeth Douglas [1st wife]
Death: ca 1451
Father: Archibald Douglas, Earl of Douglas (-1424)
Mother: Margaret Stewart (-<1456)
Marr: 1432[7] >>
Heraldry of the Royal Families of Europe, Jiri Louda and Michael Maclagan,
Clarkson N Potter, New York 1981
States Margaret Stewart died in 1451
Will Johnson
John P. Ravilious
Thanks for those kind words.
Based on the chronology of the Lords Lyle, I believe the Margaret
Houstoun in your query would be a generation earlier, i.e. a sister of
Sir John Houstoun of that Ilk. I do show that Whyte identified a
sister of Sir John named Margaret, but did not include further details
in my database. I will try to locate the hard copy of the article, and
advise of what Whyte wrote.
And yes, Margaret Sempill is the other wife of Sir John H. of that
Ilk; she is on record as the mother of the next Houstoun of that Ilk
(Peter), who was slain at Flodden.
Cheers,
John
John P. Ravilious
Thanks for those kind words. The credit for the correction truly
belongs to Andrew MacEwen: 'tis fortunate he's out there to keep us
honest (or on track, at least).......;)
Cheers,
John
Douglas Richardson wrote:
> Nice post, John. Much appreciated.
>
> Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah
>
> Website: www.royalancestry.net
>
> The...@aol.com wrote:
> > Friday, 14 October, 2005
> >
> >
> > Hello All,
> >
> > In the pedigree for Leslie, Earl of Rothes, the account of the
> > career of Sir Andrew Leslie, Master of Rothes identifies his wife
> > as
> >
> > ' Elizabeth, daughter of William, Earl of Orkney and
> > Caithness. ' [1]
> >
> > Interestingly, the previously published pedigree for Sinclair,
> > Earl of Caithness shows no such (identified) daughter. Concerning
> > this gap, Andrew B. W. MacEwen advises that he has discovered the
> > correct relationship:
<<<<<<<<<<<<<< SNIP >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
John P. Ravilious
The 1451 date may well be correct. The date I show (that she d.
'before Sept 1456') is from the SP article on Douglas, which I do not
have to hand. Does the Heraldry work you cite provide any
documentation for their date?
Cheers,
John
WJho...@aol.com
the...@aol.com writes:
> The 1451 date may well be correct. The date I show (that she d.
> 'before Sept 1456') is from the SP article on Douglas, which I do not
> have to hand. Does the Heraldry work you cite provide any
> documentation for their date?
They don't provide fact-by-fact citations so it's hard to know what their
source is for the date. Sorry.
Will
Leo van de Pas
If you go to CP Volume IV page 434 you will find recorded that Margaret
Stewart died between 26 January 1449/1450 and September 1456.
I love Jiri Louda's book BUT it is Heraldry first and only uses genealogy. I
would not use it as a genealogical source.
Best wishes
Leo