Sir Robert Erskine (d. 1452) and his wives

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John P. Ravilious

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Jan 14, 2010, 1:15:28 PM1/14/10
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Thursday, 14 January, 2010

Hello All,

The account in Scots Peerage concerning the career of Sir Robert
de Erskine (d.1452) discusses the widely-held position that he married
a daughter of Robert Stewart, lord of Lorne, but holds that he married
a daughter (evidently named Elizabeth) of David Lindsay, 1st Earl of
Crawford [1]. In addition to documentation of a marriage contract
stated therein, there is good evidence that this in fact occurred.
The supplication for the marriage of Janet Erskine, daughter of Sir
Robert, and Walter Stewart, son of Murdoch, Duke of Albany, dated 2
Apr 1421, proves that they were second cousins ("related in the third
and third degree of consanguinity"). This would be correct if Janet's
maternal grandmother was Elizabeth Stewart, wife of Earl David (of
Crawford) and daughter of Robert II, King of Scots [2].

There is however good reason to maintain that Sir Robert Erskine
entered into a second marriage, and that this was in fact with a
daughter of Robert Stewart of Lorne. The contract of marriage between
Erskine and the daughter of David Lindsay, Earl of Crawford (1400)
comports well with the birth of their daughter Janet in the range of
say 1402 to 1407, and her documented marriage in 1421. However, Sir
Robert also had among his issue a daughter Christian, the wife of
Patrick Graham, Lord Graham (d. 1466 or later). Christian had
children by Graham known to have married in the period 1455 to 1460,
but she also had a daughter Elizabeth Graham who was only contracted
to marry William Livingston of Kilsyth on 19 Dec 1480, which marriage
occurred no later than 1 Oct 1482 [3].

Elizabeth Graham had a large progeny by William Livingston, so it
is clear she was not advanced in years at the time of her marriage.
If she were born as late as say 1457 x 1462, and her mother Christian
Erskine were born as early as say 1415 x 1420, it would not be
impossible for Christian to have been a very late birth on the part of
Elizabeth Lindsay, and Elizabeth Graham likewise of Christian
Erskine. At the same time, the extension of these female generations
is not likely: it seems less than probable that Elizabeth Graham would
only have been contracted to marry in 1480 when her alleged
grandmother (per SP) Elizabeth Lindsay, if alive, would have been
approximately 90 years of age, or more.

In addition to the chronological issue, there is a piece of
evidence which supports identifying Christian Erskine as the daughter
of a 2nd marriage of Sir Robert Erskine, and specifically to a
daughter of Robert Stewart of Lorn. Christian's grandson William
Graham, Lord Graham and 1st Earl of Montrose, was married in 1479 to
Annabela Drummond, daughter of John, Lord Drummond, which marriage
required and received a dispensation [4]. The details of the
dispensation are not given, but would have been required for a
relationship in the 4th degree or closer. Annabela Drummond was (on
her mother's side) a descendant of David Lindsay, 1st Earl of
Crawford, but if her husband was also their relationship would have
been in the 4th and 5th degrees of consanguinity, for which no
dispensation would have been required.

Annabela Drummond had on her father's side a great-grandfather,
Sir David Murray of Tullibardine, married to Isabel Stewart, stated to
have been a daughter of John Stewart of Lorne [5]. If Isabel were in
fact a daughter of John's son and heir Robert Stewart, she would have
been a sister of the alleged Stewart wife of Sir Robert Erskine. If
as held above Christian Erskine was the daughter of Sir Robert Erskine
by this Stewart wife, William Graham and Annabela Drummond (married in
1479) would have been related in the 4th and 4th degrees of
consanguinity, necessitating the dispensation alluded to.

A chart of the relevant relationships, known and conjectured, is
given below. Should anyone have further documentation, comment or
criticism, that would be welcome.

Cheers,

John

1)Elizabeth = Robert II = 2) Euphemia
Mure I K of Scots I of Ross
________I I
I I
Robert Elizabeth
D of Albany = David Lindsay
= 1) Margaret = 2) Muriel E of Crawford
I Graham I Keith I
I I ________________I
I I I
I I______________________
I I
Murdoch I Joanna Stewart
D of I = Robert Stewart of Lorn
Albany I (disp 1397)
I I I_______________
I I I I
I 1) Elizabeth = Robert = 2) NN Isabel
I Lindsay I Erskine I = Sir David
I I I Murray
I _______________I I I
I I I I
I I I I
Walter = Janet Christian Mariota
Stewart Erskine = Patrick Graham = Maurice
(disp 1424) Lord Graham Drummond
I I
I I
William Graham John Drummond
Lord Graham Lord Drummond
= Eleanor/ = Elizabeth
Helen Douglas Lindsay
I I
I I
William = Annabela
Graham Drummond
(disp, marriage 1479)

Notes

[1] SP V:604, sub Erskine, Earl of Mar:
‘ Lord Erskine is usually said to have married a daughter of
Robert Stewart of Lorn and Innermeath, but there is good reason to
believe that he married the daughter of David, Earl of Crawford,
referred to (her name not being given, but it was probably Elizabeth)
in an agreement between that nobleman and Sir Thomas Erskine, dated at
Brechin 20 December 1400. By that writ it was arranged that Sir
Robert Erskine should marry a daughter of the Earl,…’

The account in the Innermeath article [SP V:3] has little detail,
but accords with the above.


[2] The translation provided by E. R. Lindsay and A. I. Cameron:
' Dispensatio matrimonialis
Walter Steuart of Levenax, Glasgow diocese, and Joneta de Erskyn,
daughter of Robert de Erskyn, knight, St. Andrews diocese, - that the
Pope would dispense them to contract and remain in matrimony,
notwithstanding that they are related in the third and third degree of
consanguinity. Fiat et petitur. O. Rome, S. Peter's, 6 Kal. May,
anno 4 ' [Lindsay and Cameron, Calendar of Scottish Supplications to
Rome 1418-1422, p. 250]


[3] The SP article on the family of Livingston, Viscount Kilsyth
says of a previous controversy as to the identification of the wife of
William Livingston (slain at Flodden in 1513):
' Two entries in the Stirling MS. Protocols seem to settle
the question. The first is the record of an agreement
between Thomas, Lord Erskine, and Christina, Lady Graham, on
the one hand, and Edward Livingston of Balcastell, on the
other, for the marriage of William Livingston, son and heir-
apparent of the said Edward and Elizabeth Graham, daughter
of the said Christina, dated 19 December 1480. That this
contemplated marriage took place, and that the relationship
between Lord Erskine and Lady Graham was that of brother and
sister, is proved by a later deed, 1 October 1482, which
bears that in prosecuting a brief of inquest purchased by
William Livingston, son and heir of the late Edward Livingston
of Balcastell, anent the lands of Castletown, etc., the
procurator of the said William alleged that Lord Erskine
(who was Sheriff of Stirlingshire) should not be a judge
in serving of the said brief, because he was suspect, the
said William having espoused the daughter of his sister. '
[SP V:186]

See also the entry in Abstract of Protocol Book of the Burgh of
Stirling, The Scottish Antiquary (Apr 1896) X:167 ['Agreement between
Thomas, Lord Erskine, and Christina, Lady Graham, and Edward
Leuingstoun of Balnastiel, for the marriage of William Leuingstoun,
son and heir-apparent of the said Edward and Elisabeth Grahame,
daughter of the said Christina. Page 275]


[4] ' In presence of John bishop of Dunblane, Thomas lord le
Erskene, the notary and witnesses, William lord le Grahame on the one
part, and Annabella Drummond, one of the daughters of John Drummond of
Cargill, on the other part, for marriage to be contracted between
them, past to the door of the parish church of Muthyll of the diocese
of Dunblane.......; asked if they knew any impediment except
consanguinity, which had been dispensed with by the said bishop with
authority of the Apostolic see,.... Present the said lord himself,
Thomas lord le Erskyne, Robert Douglas of Lochlevyn, David Grahame of
Gargunnok, Master Walter Drummond' etc., 25 Nov 1479 [Renwick,
Extracts from the royal burgh of Stirling, p. 265, no. 45]

cf. Abstract of Protocol Book of the Burgh of Stirling, The Scottish
Antiquary (Jan 1896) X:137


[5] SP V:2.

M Sjostrom

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Jan 14, 2010, 11:43:52 PM1/14/10
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John, when you say that the David Murray who married Iseabail a Latharna,
would have been the great-grandfather of Annabela a Drumanacht m Uilliam a
Graem

do you then actually mean that these men named David Murray, were one and
same person - married twice ?
http://genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00090142&tree=LEO
http://genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00080280&tree=LEO

one marriage, in say 1430, with Mairead Colquhoun
and another marriage, in say 1420, with Iseabail a Latharna

I think that Roibeart a Stiubart, lord of Latharna (= R.Stewart, 1.Baron
Lorn) was possibly born in 1370s - although, his parents were attested in
their marriage inly later, in 1388 and possibly in 1386. (That would simply
be that their wedding date is not recorded, instead they are known to have
married 'before'...)
This estimate is because his Albany wife would have needed to been born at
lastest in about 1380, but quite possibly already a bit earlier.
His Albany marriage seems to be attested in 1397 - but of course it could be
that they were somewhat young at that time, even the bridegroom possibly
still in his teens.
His Albany marriage quite possibly produced offspring still in the 1410s.

if Annabela a Drumanacht's grandmother, Mairi a Moireabh (Murray), actually
married in 1445, then it's quite acceptable that her mother would have been
the one whose marriage was before that 1430 (although the other alternative
-daughter of a marriage solemnized in c1430- is by no means impossible)

indeed, Mairi a Moireabh (whose own marriage took place in 1445) hardly was
daughter of a man whose maternal GRANDparents would have married only in
about 1397 - if Mairi needs to be descended directly from that 1397
marriage, then it's expectable her father married a daughter of that
marriage, instead of being son of a daughter of it

However, a key question is whether one or two Davids were attested.

M Sjostrom

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Jan 15, 2010, 12:36:04 AM1/15/10
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John,
how well is it attested that it was children of Cairistiona of 'Erskine' who
generally married between 1455 and 1460
?

I ask because it looks to me that in addition to the daughter Elizabeth m
1480
there was another daughter, Janet (m laird of Inverugie) whose marriage
would better fit to have taken place in or before est 1470, rather than
before 1460

So, was the son's (Uilliam of Graem, 2nd Lord) marriage before 1460 actually
an anomaly in that, and possibly just a betrothal or somesuch when the boy
was possibly yet relatively young?

Or, does it exist more attested marriages of Cairistiona's children between
1455 and 1460

John P. Ravilious

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Jan 15, 2010, 9:12:59 AM1/15/10
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On Jan 14, 11:43 pm, M Sjostrom <mqs...@gmail.com> wrote:
> John, when you say that the David Murray who married Iseabail a Latharna,
> would have been the great-grandfather of Annabela a Drumanacht m Uilliam a
> Graem
>
> do you then actually mean that these men named David Murray, were one and
> same person - married twice ?http://genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00090142&tree=LEOhttp://genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00080280&tree=LEO

>
> one marriage, in say 1430,  with Mairead Colquhoun
> and another marriage, in say 1420, with Iseabail a Latharna
>
> I think that Roibeart a Stiubart, lord of Latharna (= R.Stewart, 1.Baron
> Lorn) was possibly born in 1370s - although, his parents were attested in
> their marriage inly later, in 1388 and possibly in 1386. (That would simply
> be that their wedding date is not recorded, instead they are known to have
> married 'before'...)
> This estimate is because his Albany wife would have needed to been born at
> lastest in about 1380, but quite possibly already a bit earlier.
> His Albany marriage seems to be attested in 1397 - but of course it could be
> that they were somewhat young at that time, even the bridegroom possibly
> still in his teens.
> His Albany marriage quite possibly produced offspring still in the 1410s.
>
> if Annabela a Drumanacht's grandmother, Mairi a Moireabh (Murray), actually
> married in 1445, then it's quite acceptable that her mother would have been
> the one whose marriage was before that 1430 (although the other alternative
> -daughter of a marriage solemnized in c1430- is by no means impossible)
>
> indeed, Mairi a Moireabh (whose own marriage took place in 1445) hardly was
> daughter of a man whose maternal GRANDparents would have married only in
> about 1397 - if Mairi needs to be descended directly from that 1397
> marriage, then it's expectable her father married a daughter of that
> marriage, instead of being son of a daughter of it
>
> However, a key question is whether one or two Davids were attested.

-----------------------------

Dear 'M',

There likely were two David Murrays of Tullibardine; whether they
were father and son is not in evidence. I would place the birth of
Mariota (or similar) Murray, daughter of _a_ Sir David Murray of
Tullibardine and his wife Isabel Stewart, in a range of say 1425 to
1430 (given the 1445 marriage to Drummond) which works well with the
1397 dispensation (and marriage around then) of Robert Stewart of Lorn
and Joanna.

The sole evidence for the Murray-Stewart marriage is undated.
The account in Scots Peerage re: same [SP I:455] references
'Ecclesiastical Architecture of Scotland, iii. 337'. What this work
says, concerning Sir David Murray and his foundation of the church of
Tullibardine in 1446,

' Sir David died the same year and was buried in the church,
where his arms (Fig. 1259) still remain on the interior of the north
side of the choir, quartered with those of his wife Isobel, second
daughter of Sir John Stewart of Innermeith and Lorn. The lady's arms,
it will be observed, occupy the first and fourth quarters.
' [MacGibbon and Ross, The Ecclesiastical Architecture of Scotland,
III:330]

SP I:455-8 shows Sir David the founder (1446) as the father of
Marion/Mariota who m. Sir Malcolm Drummond. Given the 1446 dating by
MacGibbon and Ross (followed by SP I:456), I think the revision
proposed, with Isobel Stewart marrying the 2nd Sir David _and_ being
daughter of Robert (not John) Stewart of Lorn, is more sound than that
in Scots Peerage.

Cheers,

John

John P. Ravilious

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Jan 15, 2010, 9:37:49 AM1/15/10
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---------------------

Dear M,

There is an indenture between Patrick, Lord Graham and his
kinsman Robert concerning the mutual resignation of certain lands
including Fintry, to which resignation he had the assent of 'William
the Grahame, his son and heir, and Elynor [Douglas] his spouse', dated
at Mugdow, 24 Oct 1460 [Fintry MSS., Hist. Man. Comm. V:197-8]. This
was witnessed by William's younger brother Alexander, among others. I
think it rather certain William was of age at that date, and would
therefore put his birth at some time before 24 Aug 1439.

That William was the son of Christian is proved by the detailed
explanation for the dispensation of his granddaughter Helen to marry
Humphrey Colquhoun, a great-grandson of Thomas Erskine. The record
states the couple were related in the 4th degree of consanguinity, '
quia Cristina Erskyn, soror domini Thome Erskyn, peperit Willelmum
Graham, qui Willelmus genuit Willelmum Graham, dominum Graham
modernum, qui Willelmus modernus genuit Helenam, cum qua est
dispensadum...' [Bain and Rogers, Liber Protocollorum M. Cuthberti
Simonis (1875), II:295-6].

I would say a birth range for Christian Erskine of say 1418 x
1423 is likely. This would allow for William, Lord Graham (born 1439
or shortly before, married 1460 or shortly before) and Elizabeth
Graham (born say 1464 or shortly before, married in 1480) to be the
oldest and youngest child respectively of Christian Erskine.

Cheers,

John

wjho...@aol.com

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Jan 15, 2010, 6:11:02 PM1/15/10
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If you could remind us how exactly Humphrey Colquhoun is descended from
Thomas Erskine that would help not only myself, but Leo as well who is not
showing such a descent.

Leo does however, show Humphrey's grandmother to be a Jean Erskine. Is
it, that she is a daughter of Thomas? Or otherwise?

Thanks
Will Johnson

John

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Jan 15, 2010, 8:43:30 PM1/15/10
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Yes, the grandmother of [the younger] Humphrey Colquhoun of Luss was
Helen or Jean Erskine, dau. of Thomas, 2nd Lord Erskine, who married
[the elder] Humphrey Colquhoun of Luss. See SP 5:606-7. This should
also be in various editions of BP and (for Colquhoun) in BLG.

John P. Ravilious

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Jan 15, 2010, 10:36:01 PM1/15/10
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---------------------------


Dear Will,

The Erskine grandmother of Humphrey Colquhoun is the link;
according to the dispensation from 1509, though, her name was Helen.

I have charted the relationship as stated in the dispensation;
only those individuals named are shown, plus two relevant spouses
(Colquhoun and Graham) shown in brackets. The full text of the
dispensation from M. Cuthbert Simon is given below [1].


__________________________
I I
Thomas Erskine Christina [ = Patrick
I ________I Graham ]
I I
I I
Helen [ = Humphrey William Graham
I Colquhoun ] I
I I
I I
John Colquhoun William Graham
I I
I I
Humphrey Colquhoun = Helen Graham


Cheers,

John


[1] The full text concerning the dispensation [Bain and Rogers, Liber
Protocollorum M. Cuthberti Simonis (1875), II:295-6]:

" 376. Culquhoun—Luss.

Die Veneris, xiij Julii, anno quingentesimo ix°, indictione xij,
pontificatus Julii 2'di anno sexto, et regni xxij : M. Patricius
Graham, Eobertus Striueling, Wmfridus Culquhoun, M. Robertus Culquhoun
vicarius de Luss, Macolmus Culquhoun, testes producti pro parte
Wmfridi Culquhoun, filii domini de Lus, et Helene Grahame, filie
comitis de Montros, se quarto consanguine-
itatis gradu attingentium, ac inuicem matrimonialiter copulari
desiderantium, ac jurati, examinati et interrogati per Magistrum
Martinum Eede cancellarium Glasguensem, ac commissarium in hac parte
Jacobi Glasguensis archiepiscopi, commissarii judicisque vnici, et
executons, ad dispensandum cum dictis Vmfrido et Helena, super
huiusmodi impedimento, vigore literarum dispensatoriarum apostolicarum
desuper directarum, dixerunt in suis sacramentis, quod ipse Wmfridus
et Helena attingunt se quarto consanguinitatis gradu; quia Cristina


Erskyn, soror domini Thome Erskyn, peperit Willelmum Graham, qui
Willelmus genuit Willelmum Graham, dominum Graham modernum, qui

Willelmus modernus genuit Helenam, cum qua est dispensandum: Et ex
alia parte, dominus Thomas Erskyn, frater dicte Cristine, genuit
quandam Helenam Erskyn, que Helena peperit dominum Johannem Culquhoun
de Luss militem modernum, qui dominus Johannes genuit Wmfridum, cum
quo est dispensandum : Peciit idem dominus Johannes Culquhoun, miles,
instrumenta: Acta in ecclesia Glasguensi, hora x ante meridiem, vel
eacirca; testibus, Magistris Adam Culquhoun, Dauid Dwn, et Jacobo
Culquhoun. "

M Sjostrom

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Jan 16, 2010, 1:45:31 PM1/16/10
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when Humphrey a Cuilcumhann (= Colquhoun), the future laird of Luss,
received a dispensation dated 1509 to marry his Graem kinswoman Ealann,
Humphrey must have been relatively young.

I have a suspicion that the ambiguity of name of his wife (was she Ealann or
Caitriona = Helen or Kathrin) could come from (this is speculation) actually
two Graem sisters, Ealann being betrothed to him as child but ultimately
marrying another sister named Caitriona - perhaps Ealann deceased meanwhile

M Sjostrom

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Jan 16, 2010, 2:18:33 PM1/16/10
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about men named Dabidh a Muireabh = David Murray:

I think the Burke's has made dog's barf out of the Tullach Bardainn laird
dynasty (= Tullibardine)

* because: another source, the texts reproduced in Electric Scotland,
informs that this lady, Mairead a Cuilcumhann
http://genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00080281&tree=LEO
actually was married with a man named Uilliam a Muireabh, laird of Tullach
Bardainn, knight - and NOT with Dabidh

I would reconstrue that the said Mairead a Cuilcumhann's husband (and not
son) were this knight Uilliam
http://genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00080276&tree=LEO
who possibly had two wives

* simple chronology would support that Mairead's husband Uilliam would have
been son (and not grandson) of this knight Dabidh a Muireabh, laird of
Tullach Bardainn in the region of Sratheireann
http://genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00090142&tree=LEO
and presumably by his a Stiubhart a Latharna wife Iseabail

So, the other Dabidh a Moireabh actually is not needed in that direct
lineage
and I suspect he was not laird of Tullach Bardainn at any time

M Sjostrom

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Jan 16, 2010, 6:14:26 PM1/16/10
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John,

there's another possibility for Annabella Drumanacht to be within forbidden
degree of consanguinity to her husband.
Namely, if Annabella herself is placed incorrectly in conventional
genealogies. What is she were, instead of daughter, a sister of that
Drumanach peer, Iain, 1st Lord of Parliament.

I find the datings make some conventional genealogy as suspect:

Annabella's marriage has some dating in 1479
http://genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00083074&tree=LEO

but then, her alleged father's marriage has a dating in 1468
http://genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00026906&tree=LEO

the marriage of Mael Coluim a Drumanach, laird of Cargill, the father of
knight Iain, has a dating in 1445
http://genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00108470&tree=LEO

This is very tight, and practically necessitates that each of these was born
as eldest child already soon after each marriage took place - or there's
flaw in the lineage

Okay, if a son and heir was born in 1446 or 1448, it is still plausible that
he would marry as early as in 1468.

But to have then a specific daughter again to be eldest, it's likelier that
the births distribute her to a later date.

and even if born as first child of that 1468 marriage (for example in 1469),
to be married off in 1479 is a bit premature. It can be explained only as a
childhood betrothal.

couldn't that Annabella been daughter of Mael Choluim, instead of being his
granddaughter ?
what is contemporary testimony of this Annabella's parentage?

John P. Ravilious

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Jan 16, 2010, 11:09:31 PM1/16/10
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On Jan 16, 6:14 pm, M Sjostrom <mqs...@gmail.com> wrote:
> John,
>
> there's another possibility for Annabella Drumanacht to be within forbidden
> degree of consanguinity to her husband.
> Namely, if Annabella herself is placed incorrectly in conventional
> genealogies. What is she were, instead of daughter, a sister of that
> Drumanach peer, Iain, 1st Lord of Parliament.
>
> I find the datings make some conventional genealogy as suspect:
>
> Annabella's marriage has some dating in 1479http://genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00083074&tree=LEO
>
> but then, her alleged father's marriage has a dating in 1468http://genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00026906&tree=LEO

>
> the marriage of Mael Coluim a Drumanach, laird of Cargill, the father of
> knight Iain, has a dating in 1445http://genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00108470&tree=LEO

>
> This is very tight, and practically necessitates that each of these was born
> as eldest child already soon after each marriage took place - or there's
> flaw in the lineage
>
> Okay, if a son and heir was born in 1446 or 1448, it is still plausible that
> he would marry as early as in 1468.
>
> But to have then a specific daughter again to be eldest, it's likelier that
> the births distribute her to a later date.
>
> and even if born as first child of that 1468 marriage (for example in 1469),
> to be married off in 1479 is a bit premature. It can be explained only as a
> childhood betrothal.
>
> couldn't that Annabella been daughter of Mael Choluim, instead of being his
> granddaughter ?
> what is contemporary testimony of this Annabella's parentage?


Dear M,

I would say that a childhood betrothal for William Graham and
Annabela Drummond is exactly what occurred.

William was evidently born between 16 May 1462 and 16 May 1463:
he was styled Lord le Grame ('in the 14th year of his age') on 15 May
1477, when he

'compromitted him to stand, for his profit and honour to the
counsel and ordinance of Thomas lord le Erskin, his uncle; Alexander
Erskine, son and heir apparent of the said Lord Erskine; John Drummond
of Cargill, and Mr. John Lyon of Curtastone' [Renwick, Extracts from
the Records of the Royal Burgh of Stirling, p. 262, no. 34]

Note too that their son William Graham was only born some time
after 24 Oct 1492, as he was allowed to succeed to his father's lands
_as a minor_ on 24 Oct 1513, due to special provisions for heirs of
those slain at Flodden. I'd say that Annabela was likely born in the
period between 1465 and 1470, and probably closer to the latter date.

Further, Annabela was the daughter of John Drummond, and not his
sister. She is called _one of the daughters of John Drummond of
Cargill_ in the 1479 record:

' In presence of John bishop of Dunblane, Thomas lord le Erskene,
the notary and witnesses, William lord le Grahame on the one part,
and Annabella Drummond, one of the daughters of John Drummond of
Cargill, on the other part, for marriage to be contracted between
them, past to the door of the parish church of Muthyll of the diocese
of Dunblane.......; asked if they knew any impediment except
consanguinity, which had been dispensed with by the said bishop with
authority of the Apostolic see,.... Present the said lord himself,
Thomas lord le Erskyne, Robert Douglas of Lochlevyn, David Grahame of

Gargunnok, Master Walter Drmmond' etc., 25 Nov 1479 [Renwick, Extracts


from the royal burgh of Stirling, p. 265, no. 45]

Cheers,

John


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