issue of khan Köten of the Cumans
M.Sjostrom
* Köten, Kuthen, Kotian, Kotjan, Zayhan, 'Jonas'
* Polovtsy, Polovchi, Polovtsi, Kipchak, Kiptsak, Kun,
Cumania
Lots of traditional -and possibly misled- genealogies
show khan Köten of the Kun tribe, son of khan Suthoi,
as father of the lady who became baptized Elisabeth,
and mother of children of king Stephen V of Hungary -
most notably, mother of their probably eldest
daughter, Maria I, the proclaimed and crowned queen of
Hungary (just a claimant there however) and anyway
queen-consort of Naples; of Anna who married a
Byzantine emperor; and of Catherine who married a
Serbian king.
Through those daughters, particularly Maria, lots of
European royalty and nobility -after couple centuries,
practically all such royalty- descend from Elisabeth
of Kun tribe - and from her father.
The prosopography of khan Köten shows that he was
killed in c1241 in royal palace of Hungary; and that
he must have then been elderly, as he already was in
power some decades earlier, in Russia, from where they
fled because of Mongols' invasion.
Köten is actually mentioned as father of the Polovchi
(Cuman) lady who married the brave Mstislav
Mstislavich of Smolensk, one-time ruler of Halych and
the other time ruler of Novgorod. Mstislav died in
1228, having been active and adult since at least
1193.
That marriage took place necessarily around the first
decade of 13th century. and because Mstislav had
children, presumably by her, aalready married before
his own death, his Polovchi bride must have been adult
in critical years at latest. Say, she should be born
in 1190 at latest, possibly earlier.
Köten also is mentioned as father of the Kuni (Cuman)
lady who in c1239 married the powerful magnate Narjod
III de Toucy in Latin Constantinople.
We should believe that said lady was at least 12 yo
and possibly around 20 yo in c1239.
Already these two daughters -who all could be
half-siblings, for all I know- mean that Köten had
births of his children stretched over decades before
he had anything to do with Hungary.
How likely it then is that also that Elisabeth of the
Cumans were his daughter?
It is not totally impossible - a girl born to elderly
man by a very late wife or concubine.
But there are problems in circumstances too.
The Hungarian bridegroom, Stephen, was himself born in
c1238 or 1239.
A lady older than him (at least, not much older - one
year may yet go), would not been likely to be chosen.
Elisabeth started seemingly to birth children in
c1257. Which speaks for her being born in 1240 or a
tad earlier, but not much -practically not at all-
later.
The engagement between young stephen, Hungary's heir,
and young 'Elisabeth', was made in c1246, as part of
arrangement to seal the allegiance of Cumans to the
Hungarian king.
and, at that date, Köten already was several years
dead.
It is very possible that chronicles or whatever are
primary sources of that marriage, just say that she
was daughter of 'king of Cumans', not so well
specifying which king or khan by name.
More believable (for example, in terms of
effectiveness of the deal) would be, if the young
Elisabeth were daughter of thev then khan, and not of
a deceased predecessor.
a part of this genealogical fiasco could be that
afaik, the name of ruler or rulers who succeeded the
killed Köten, c1241 and following years, are not known
to historiography. (Nor do we know much about kinship
between Köten and his successors...)
The lack of name could have lead some earlier
genealogists just to use the name of the last 'known'
khan, instead of mentioning that the father was a khan
whose name is not known.
Of course, the successor could have been, for example,
Köten's son - and then, using his sister, daughter of
Köten, as bride, would make much sense. Particularly
if he had no own daughters of suitable age.
But it just is not known who succeeded Köten, and
werre any of his successors his descendants.
OK, this could be *important* to you all there -
Elisabeth's father is bound to be an ancestor of most,
if not all, proven mediaval English lineages. because
of Philippa of Hainaut :)
(Here's what Elisabeth had as descendants within next
century:
http://genealogics.org/descend.php?personID=I00020690&tree=LEO
If Elisabeth were not Köten's daughter, but of some
other Cuman ruler, it does not necessarily mean that
everybody there is going to lose him as 'proven'
ancestor. It's just that then, one needs practically
to descend from these:
http://genealogics.org/descend.php?personID=I00118619&tree=LEO
(for example, all descendants of Frederick V of the
Palatinate, the Winter King, appear to descend from
her...)
Btw, I just want to mention that I found it somewhat
unreliable that the said Cuman Elisabeth's mother
would have been a Russian princess of identifiable
ancestry.
That's an ancestral link which seemingly is more like
wishful thinking than based on any valid historical
proof.
____________________________________________________________________________________
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A JACOBSON
Sorry to be asking you, but I couldn't find a link on the genealogics site to contact Leo van de Pas, and you're the one who referenced the link I started following, I'm hoping you might know the answer, or someone else on Gen-Medieval might know.
Anita Jacobson
http://genealogics.org/descend.php?personID=I00020690&tree=LEO<http://genealogics.org/descend.php?personID=I00020690&tree=LEO>
If Elisabeth were not Köten's daughter, but of some
other Cuman ruler, it does not necessarily mean that
everybody there is going to lose him as 'proven'
ancestor. It's just that then, one needs practically
to descend from these:
http://genealogics.org/descend.php?personID=I00118619&tree=LEO<http://genealogics.org/descend.php?personID=I00118619&tree=LEO>
(for example, all descendants of Frederick V of the
Palatinate, the Winter King, appear to descend from
her...)
Btw, I just want to mention that I found it somewhat
unreliable that the said Cuman Elisabeth's mother
would have been a Russian princess of identifiable
ancestry.
That's an ancestral link which seemingly is more like
wishful thinking than based on any valid historical
proof.
____________________________________________________________________________________
You rock. That's why Blockbuster's offering you one month of Blockbuster Total Access, No Cost.
http://tc.deals.yahoo.com/tc/blockbuster/text5.com<http://tc.deals.yahoo.com/tc/blockbuster/text5.com>
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Tim
> You rock. That's why Blockbuster's offering you one month of Blockbuster Total Access, No Cost. http://tc.deals.yahoo.com/tc/blockbuster/text5.com
The Cumans settled in the Balkans and established a state known as
'Cumania' that was lated incorporated into the Kingdom of Hungary. It
was probably in the northern part of present-day Rumania. The King of
Hungary took the title 'Rex Cumaniae' which was later inherited by the
Holy Roman Hapsburg emperors. The native Balkan Vlach tribal people
eventually absorbed the Cumans and they are ancestors of present-day
Rumanians. Some Rumanian family surnames ( including Nadia Comaneci,
the Olympic gymnast) have Cuman origins.
M.Sjostrom
"The Cumans settled in the Balkans and established a
state known as 'Cumania' that was lated incorporated
--
I greatly doubt the existence of a proper Cuman state,
and of any clear geographic entity or area called
Cumania. Afaik, kings of Hungary adopted the title
King of Cumania already fairly soon, and based on
their overlordship over the immigrating (refugee)
Cumans, not for the existence of any clearly defined
geographical entity called Cumania.
I have had an impression that Cumans had a tribal
community, and that in Hungary they just lived as
dispersed among others, in emptier spots. Like Roma
peoples. They had chieftain or chieftains as their
links, but it most probably was not about rule over an
area; rather it were tribal rule over an ethnic group.
And there, they sooner or later melted in with other
ethnicities - however some Cuman bunch (which probably
also got infusions of genomes of other ethnicities)
preserved their self-calling as cumans (Kun, Coman),
to very recent times, though language died out lots
earlier.
Transilvanian lords, Valachia and to some extent
Moldavia were vassals of Hungarian monarchy - there
too were dispersed Cumans. who sired traces of them
into those ethnicities too, like to many other
ethnicities within borders of the great Hungary.
But also some souther regions of Balkan got Cuman
infusions, at some stage.
____________________________________________________________________________________
Mississ...@gmail.com
Invade Russia (2001)", Köten was the son of Könchek khan who had
unified a number of eastern and western tribes under his authority.
Köten also had a brother named Yuri and a son named Daniil (both
probably Russian baptismal names). István Vásáry in his book "Cumans
and Tatars: Oriental Military in the Pre-Ottoman Balkans (2005)"
states that Köten was a member of the Terteroba clan, and suggests
that the George Terter elected Bulgarian tsar in 1280 was related to
him.
Vásáry also reports on three Kuman/Western marriages in 13th century
Constantinople, at that time under the rule of the Latin kingdom.
Alberic Trium Fontium in his Chronicon tells of a Kuman "rex",
Saronius, who married one of his daughters to Guillaume, son of the
constable Geoffroi de Meri, and another daughter to Balduin de
Hainault, a knight of the Emperor Baldwin II. Another "rex" named
Jonah gave his daughter in marriage to Narillaut de Toucy, the bailiff
of Constantinople. Vásáry believes that Istvan V's queen was the
daughter of a Kuman chief named Seyhan, and doesn't make a connection
between Seyhan and Köten. It seems doubtful that Zayhan khan and Köten
khan were one and the same. Nora Berend in "At the Gate of
Christendom: Jews, Muslims, and "pagans" in Medieval Hungary (2001)"
rejects this entirely, citing evidence that Erszébet's parents were
baptized in 1254. Zayhan was mentioned as King Bela's relative
("cognatus noster") and as chief of the Kumans in a 1255 charter of
Bela's. Erszébet's father must've been a great chief, as her seal
described her as "daughter of the emperor of the Kumans".
Was Zayhan perhaps a son or other relative of Köten? Or an
enterprising Kuman chief who seized power after Köten's death? In any
case, it seems clear that Köten and Zayhan were NOT one and the same.
M.Sjostrom
Mississ...@gmail.com
"Cumans and Tatars: Oriental Military in the Pre-Ottoman Balkans
Bulgarian historians of course preferred to consider the brothers
Peter, Asen, and Kaloyan as Bulgarians. Romanian historians called
them Vlakhs. Pope Innocent III wrote to the Hungarian king Imre in
1204, mentioning "Petrus videlicet et Johannicius, de priorum regum
prosapia descendentes, terram patrum suorum non tam occupare, quam
recuperare coeperunt". In 1199, the pope wrote to Kaloyan, mentioning
Kaloyan's alleged Roman ("de sanguine Romanorum") descent. Vásáry
questions whether this means Roman, Romanian (ie Vlakh), or romaioi,
the word for Byzantine Greeks. Or perhaps it was simply a cunning
claim by Kaloyan to give himself some illustrious ancestry. On the
other hand, numerous sources including Villehardouin and Choniates
call the brothers Vlakhs. Choniates relates a story of a Greek priest
talking to Asen in the Vlakh language.
However, Asen's name is solidly Turkic. It's from the Turkic name
Esen, "safe, healthy". There was another Kuman prince named Osen who
died in 1082; his son or son-in-law was the Aepa (Ayapa) khan who's
daughter married the Kievan prince Yuri. Asen and Osen are different
transcriptions of the name Esen. Vásáry suggests that the brothers
were of Kuman, or Pecheneg, descent, possibly mixed with Vlakh.
Vásáry also suggests that the Kuman "rex" Saronius who I mentioned in
my earlier post, may have been identical to the Kuman chief Sytzigan
(Sicgan, "mouse") who Kantakouzenos says was baptised and entered
Byzantine service about 1241.
Tim
> You rock. That's why Blockbuster's offering you one month of Blockbuster Total Access, No Cost. http://tc.deals.yahoo.com/tc/blockbuster/text5.com
That's true, the Cumans were a nomadic Turanian people and Cumania was
a tribal state rather than a clearly-defined geographical entity. The
original Cumania was in the Ukrainian steppes north of the Black Sea
but it gradually shifted westwards as the Cumans retreated before the
advancing Mongols, and by the mid 1200's they'd converted to
Christianity and settled in the Balkans, and in the Hungarian plain.
They probably settled among the indigenous people, Vlachs, Slavs,
Magyars, etc. who already inhabited the Balkans and over the course of
time intermingled with them. The Bulgars and other immigrating
Turanian (Turkic) tribes did the same thing.