Ridlesford - Longespee (was NESTA of Wales)

[Vickie (Elam) White]

Richard Borthwick wrote --

>>Is this the picture of the Ridelsford descent?

Nest # HENRY I m. Matilda
| |
Henry f. Regis, lord of Narberth, Matilda
steward of St David's |
_____________________________|___ _ _ _ _ _
Robert Meiler, justiciar of Amabel m. HENRY II # Rosamund
Ireland Walter I de de Clifford
Ridelsford
| | |
Meiler Walter II de William Longespee
Ridelsford
| |
Emmeline de m. Stephen Longespee

I dont' know about the Ridelsford line, but Rosamonde CLIFFORD was not
the mother of William Longespee. Current thinking is that his mother was
Ida, who later married Roger Bigod, 2d Earlof Norfolk. Source: Gary Boyd
Roberts' _Royal Descents of 500 Immigrants to the American Colonies or the
United States_ (1993). Evidently the source used by Roberts was a charter
of William Longespee published in the _Cartulary of Bradenstoke Priory_ ed.
by Vera C. M.London (Publications of the Wiltshire Record Society, Vol. 35,
1979)
which explicitly named a "Countess Ida" as his mother. And William
did name a daughter Ida. Also, there is evidently an article on her
in The Genealogist Volume 3 (1982) pp. 265 - 266, which I have
not seen. I don't know if this was used as a source for Roberts'
position.

I was told in February 1996 that there was a forthcoming article by
Douglas Richardson that would fully document this identification.
Does anyone know if this article has been published yet?

Vickie (Elam) White
10265...@compuserve.com

[Paul Mackenzie]

I have got a published pedigree of the Longespee family, but it appears
to be the old version.
It mentions that William Longespee was the son of King Henry 11 and
.......Rosumund, daughter of Walter Baron de Clifford.
There is a note against the de Clifford name, however it could be
referring to Rosumund. It states "Buried in the nunnery at Godstow, near
Oxford, with the following epitaph :-
"Hic jacet in tumulo, Rosemundi,
Non Rosamunda,
Non redolent sed olet,
Quae redolere solet".

Regards Paul Mackenzie
Parramatta
Australia

[D. Spencer Hines]

Paul Mackenzie wrote:

> There is a note against the de Clifford name, however it could be
> referring to Rosumund. It states "Buried in the nunnery at Godstow, near
> Oxford, with the following epitaph :-

> "Hic jacet in tumulo, Rosemundi,
> Non Rosamunda,
> Non redolent sed olet,
> Quae redolere solet".
>
> Regards Paul Mackenzie
> Parramatta
> Australia

What a lovely epitaph? I wonder who wrote it? Perhaps Henry II,
himself, had a hand in it. It would be very helpful if you could please
provide the citation.

Thank you. Spencer Hines

--

D. Spencer Hines---Hamlet: "Do you see yonder cloud that's almost in
shape of a camel? Polonius: "By the mass, and 'tis like a camel
indeed."---Hamlet: "Methinks it is like a weasel." Polonius: "It is
backed like a weasel."---Hamlet: "Or like a whale?"---Polonius: "Very
like a whale." --- William Shakespeare (1564-1616) Hamlet, Prince of
Denmark, III, ii, 400

[Jim Stevens]

"Vickie (Elam) White" <10265...@COMPUSERVE.COM> posted (in Part):

>I dont' know about the Ridelsford line, but Rosamonde CLIFFORD was not
>the mother of William Longespee. Current thinking is that his mother was
>Ida, who later married Roger Bigod, 2d Earlof Norfolk. Source: Gary Boyd
>Roberts' _Royal Descents of 500 Immigrants to the American Colonies or the
>United States_ (1993).

Do we know for certain that Henry had a mistess named Ida and, if so, do we
know that this SAME Ida went on to marry the Earl of Norfolk ?

Today is the first day of the rest of your life ! (jste...@iquest.net) Jim

[Todd A. Farmerie]

Paul Mackenzie wrote:
>
> I have got a published pedigree of the Longespee family, but it appears
> to be the old version.
> It mentions that William Longespee was the son of King Henry 11 and
> .......Rosumund, daughter of Walter Baron de Clifford.

> There is a note against the de Clifford name, however it could be
> referring to Rosumund. It states "Buried in the nunnery at Godstow, near
> Oxford, with the following epitaph :-
> "Hic jacet in tumulo, Rosemundi,
> Non Rosamunda,
> Non redolent sed olet,
> Quae redolere solet".

Yes, unfortunately bad genealogy never dies.

It is all quite simple. Rosamund was a mistress of Henry II. William
was a bastard of Henry II. Thus William must have been son of Rosamund
. . . What? . . . Chronology? . . . Evidence? . . . What are you, a
communist? :)

taf

[Paul Mackenzie]

D. Spencer Hines wrote:

>
> Paul Mackenzie wrote:
>
> > There is a note against the de Clifford name, however it could be
> > referring to Rosumund. It states "Buried in the nunnery at Godstow, near
> > Oxford, with the following epitaph :-
>
> > "Hic jacet in tumulo, Rosemundi,
> > Non Rosamunda,
> > Non redolent sed olet,
> > Quae redolere solet".
> >

> > Regards Paul Mackenzie
> > Parramatta
> > Australia
>
> What a lovely epitaph? I wonder who wrote it? Perhaps Henry II,
> himself, had a hand in it. It would be very helpful if you could please
> provide the citation.
>
> Thank you. Spencer Hines

The reference is called "DE BRAOSE FAMILY" by D.G.C. Elwes published in
The Genealogist, 1883 pages 57. I obtained a copy from LDS Microfilm.

Cheers
Paul Mackenzie
Parramatta
Australia.

[Vickie (Elam) White]

>>> There is a note against the de Clifford name, however it could be
>>> referring to Rosumund. It states "Buried in the nunnery at Godstow, near
>>> Oxford, with the following epitaph :-

>>> "Hic jacet in tumulo, Rosemundi,
>>> Non Rosamunda,
>>> Non redolent sed olet,
>>> Quae redolere solet".
>>>
>>> Regards Paul Mackenzie
>>> Parramatta
>>> Australia

>>What a lovely epitaph? I wonder who wrote it? Perhaps Henry II,
>>himself, had a hand in it. It would be very helpful if you could please
>>provide the citation.

Maybe not so lovely. This seems to be connected with waht Giraldus Cambrensis
wrote about Rosamonde's affair with Henry II. He wrote: "He [Henry] who had
long been a secret adulterer, now flaunted his paramour for all to see, not that
Rose of the World (Rosa-mundi) as some vain and foolish people called her, but
that Rose of Unchastity (Rosa-immundi)." I saw this quote in a book called
_Eleanor of Acquitaine and the Four Kings_ by Amy Kelly, and she cited
_Itinerarium Kambriae_ ed. J. F. Dimock (R 21, VI) pg. 165.

I have seen many references to Rosamonde as the Rose of the World, so evidently
this was a widely used nickname for her. I can just see some court wag giving
her the new nickname!

Vickie (Elam) White
10265...@compuserve.com