Jane Empson's (Pynchon/Wilson) birth year and relation to Sir Richard Empson

[Pam Wilson]

Jane Empson (died 1587), who married John Pynchon and then Thomas Wilson (Secy to Queen Eliz and Ambassador to the Low Countries), has traditionally been cited as a "daughter and co-heir" of Richard Empson, who was executed with Sir Edmund Dudley in August 1510.

In searching the archives of this group, I've found no discussion of the discrepancies in terms of her age and date of birth that might cause a conflict with this traditional account. However, most sources give John Pynchon's year of birth as 1534, and I note that his marriage to Jane was his second, and that his children by Jane were born in the 1560s. It appears that Pynchon died 29 Nov 1573 and that she married Wilson 15 July 1576.

If Jane had been born even after the death of her father, the latest her birth year could have been would be 1511. This still places her very old to be having up to six children in the 1560s.

Could she have been a granddaughter (through his sons Thomas or John, Thomas being named heir when Empson's estates were restored in 1513)?

Your insights are appreciated.

Thank you,

Pam Wilson

[Wjhonson]

The Richard who was executed, had a son who lived and to whom the estates were restored.
So Jane could not be her father's co-heiress.
I suggest the Richard who was the father, was a different man.

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[Wjhonson]

One more thing to point out here.
The idea that she was having children in the 1560s is
founded on no good source.

We don't have a clue in what decade Jane was born
nor in what decades she had her children

The best plan is to come *forward* until we have
good dates and then try to work backward

-----Original Message-----
From: Pam Wilson <wils...@mindspring.com>
To: gen-medieval <gen-me...@rootsweb.com>
Sent: Thu, May 16, 2013 2:40 pm
Subject: Jane Empson's (Pynchon/Wilson) birth year and relation to Sir Richard Empson

[Wjhonson]

At first I had thought it might be simply that your Jane was the heiress of Richard's *heir* Thomas, but that is appearently not the case either.

After Richard was beheaded 1510 on what was probably a trumped up charge, his estates were forfeit and confiscated, but restored to his "eldest" son and heir Thomas, who was already or nearly an adult when his father died.

This Thomas Empson married Ethelreda (aka Audrey) Wolston who is called the "heir apparent" (sic) of her own father Guy Wolston of Apethorpe Knt who died in 1504 testate (PCC 21 Holgrave)

She was apparently his sole heiress and they are found living at Apethorpe, which property her father during his life settled on them jointly.

This property they sold, evidently also jointly meaning she was yet living that year, 1515

They, or at least *he* is then found living at Easton Neston where the King visits him in 1526 on a "progress" about the country.

Thomas made an arrangement to sell this place as well, retaining a life estate provided he remain childless, which he did, dying 1535 s.p.

He had three sisters, on whom we've already touched in the other thread inter alia

Elizabeth Empson m1 Catesby m2 Lucy m3 Verney
- some sources have her dying 1535 or 1536 citing actions of her "executors" but I think it's also likely to be the year her *husband* died being of that property *by courtesy* meaning it could not be disposed until his own death That is Ashby St Legers which I mentioned elsewhere. Her son Richard Catesby being on that property but dying at Eaton perhaps he sold it....

Jane Empson m1 Henry Sothill Attorney General to H7 His will dated 16 Feb 1505/6 proved 16 May 1506; and m2 Sir William Pierrepont by license dated 22 Jan 1507/8 (Arch. Cant.). Jane was yet young enough to have by him a son George born 16 Jul 1510 later made a Knight of the Carpet

Mary Empson married Edward Bulstrode about 7 Jul 1496, and their son George was born by 1513

So you see your Jane is not in the generation, who all were active decades before she was.

But I'm not sure where she goes.

-----Original Message-----
From: Wjhonson <wjho...@aol.com>
To: wilsonpam <wils...@mindspring.com>; gen-medieval <gen-me...@rootsweb.com>
Sent: Sun, May 19, 2013 7:59 am
Subject: Re: Jane Empson's (Pynchon/Wilson) birth year and relation to Sir Richard Empson


One more thing to point out here.
The idea that she was having children in the 1560s is
founded on no good source.

We don't have a clue in what decade Jane was born
nor in what decades she had her children

The best plan is to come *forward* until we have
good dates and then try to work backward







-----Original Message-----
From: Pam Wilson <wils...@mindspring.com>
To: gen-medieval <gen-me...@rootsweb.com>
Sent: Thu, May 16, 2013 2:40 pm
Subject: Jane Empson's (Pynchon/Wilson) birth year and relation to Sir Richard Empson