Eleanor of BAR
U...@aol.com
Henri III, Count of Bar, was the mother of Thomas ap Llywelyn, Lord of Iscoed.
If she is, then Abraham Lincoln has a descent from Edward I; if not Abe has a
descent from Thomas ap Llywelyn. TIA
Always optimistic--Dave
Leo van de Pas
I may have to disappoint you. ES VI page 147, this gives Henri III
and Eleonore of England only one child: Eduard I. This Eduard married
and had (with a son) Eleonore who married Rudolf Duke of Lorraine.
Having said that ES VI 147 gives only one child, ES III band 2 page 355
tells that John de Warenne, 8th Earl of Surrey married 25 May 1306
Jeanne de Bar, daughter of Henri III, Count of Bar. Well, the time frame
fits as her brother Eduard married in 1310. The Complete Peerage Vol XII/1
page 511 tells that John de Warenne married 25 May 1306 Joan, daughter
of Henry, Count of Bar by Eleanor daughter of Edward I, King of England.
However, this marriage is childless.
I don't know whether you know Burke's Guide to the Royal Family?
Not Burke's Royal Families of the World. On page 325 it tells
Llywelyn, of Iscoed
is father of:
Thomas, of Iscoed,
who had issue :
1.Elen married to Gruffyd Fychan II, Lord of Glyndyfrdwy
2.Margaret married to Tudur Fychan
both daughters have children recorded (perhaps not all) in this book.
Margaret being grandmother of Owen Tudor.
Sadly I would query: where did you get the name of Thomas ap Llywelyn's
mother? Llywelyn does not display a wife in this book. Also, I would say,
the family of Bar moved in much loftier circles than minor nobility in
Wales. Perhaps Llywelyn's wife was illegitimate, which would cut the line to
Edward I.
Sorry and best wishes
Leo van de Pas
William Addams Reitwiesner
>Can some kind soul tell me if Eleanor of Bar, dau of Eleanor of Wngland and
>Henri III, Count of Bar, was the mother of Thomas ap Llywelyn, Lord of Iscoed.
>If she is, then Abraham Lincoln has a descent from Edward I; if not Abe has a
>descent from Thomas ap Llywelyn.
Peter C. Bartrum, in his *Welsh Genealogies, AD 300-1400* [Cardiff:
University of Wales Press, 1974], vol. 4, p. 782 (table "Rhys ap Tewdwr
7"), gives two wives for Llywelyn ab Owain, father of Thomas ap Llywelyn.
They are (1) Gwanas, daughter of Thomas ap Robinod, constable of
Llansteffan Castle, and (2) an unnamed daughter of Sir Robert de Valle of
Trefgarn Owain. Unfortunately, the Welsh genealogical manuscripts, at
different places, give *both* of Llywelyn's wives as Thomas's mother.
Bartrum cites Bridgeman's *History of the Principality of South Wales*
[1876], pp. 238 and 249 (which I haven't seen), for further information on
both Thomas and Llywelyn.
William Addams Reitwiesner
wr...@erols.com
"Sic gorgiamus allos subjectatos nunc."