Berry's "Kent Pedigrees"
Leo van de Pas
A Thomas Scott, of Egerton 1567-1635, is a descendant of
Edward I in at least six different ways. His daughter Dorothea went to
Oyster Bay, Long Island, New York.
Can anyone add a bit more to the very limited details I have.
Thomas Scott, of Egerton, 1567-1635
in 1604 he married his second wife Mary Knatchbull and
by her was the father of Dorothea, baptised 22 Sept.1611.
Who was his first wife? Any more dates and place names?
Many thanks
Leo van de Pas
Nelson Silva
>Can anyone add a bit more to the very limited details I have.
>Thomas Scott, of Egerton, 1567-1635
>in 1604 he married his second wife Mary Knatchbull and
>by her was the father of Dorothea, baptised 22 Sept.1611.
Dear Leo,
In http://w3.nai.net/~rudolphs/genealogy/html/F278.html I found this
information:
(...)
11. Sir Charles Scott of Egerton, Kent, m. Lady Jane Wyatt, dau. of Sir
Thomas Wyatt
who was executed Apr.11,1554, London Tower. She is also of Dutch
Royal descent
and Aunt of Gov. Francis Wyatt of Virginia.
12. Sir Thomas Scott m. 2nd, Jane Knatchbull, dau. of John Knatchbull.
13. Dorothea Scott m. 1st, Major Daniel Gotherson; m. 2nd ab. 1670, John
Hogben.
In 1680, she came to Oyster Bay, L.I., N.Y., where her first husband
bought land
in 1633.
14. Dorothea Gotherson m. John Davis of Pilesgrove Twp.,Salem, N.J.
(...)
Maybe this could help you, or at least you can contact the webmaster of
that page.
Regards,
Nelson Silva
: J.Nelson Vieira da Silva http://aramis.inescn.pt/~nsilva
: INESC - PORTO
: Praca da Republica, 93 r/c Official Magna Carta Web Site
: 4050 Porto PORTUGAL http://www.magnac.com/
.........................................................................
Adrian Channing
>
> Does anyone have access to the above?
> A Thomas Scott, of Egerton 1567-1635, is a descendant of
> Edward I in at least six different ways. His daughter Dorothea went to
> Oyster Bay, Long Island, New York.
>
> Thomas Scott, of Egerton, 1567-1635
> in 1604 he married his second wife Mary Knatchbull and
> by her was the father of Dorothea, baptised 22 Sept.1611.
> Many thanks
My notes taken from Edward Hasted's History of Kent give a bit more;
Sir Reginal alias Raynold Scott of Scotts Hall, Kent had two marriages
(probably the same Reginal Scott shown elsewhere as married to Emmaline
Kempe). He left
i)Sir Thomas (-1594 bur Braborne), of Scotts Hall
ii)Charles
iii)Raynold auther of "The Discovery of Witchcraft"
iv)Mary m Sir Anthony St Ledger
v)Elizabeth m Sir Richard Smythe
The above son Charles, in temp Elizabeth bought Eggarton manor, Godmersham
parish, Kent from Sir Henry de Hills.
Charles's grandson:
Thomas of Eggarton left
Thomas, dsp and
Dorothy m Mr Daniel Gotherson who in her right took Eggarton (I guess this
is the Dorothy you mention)
The above Thomas of Eggarton is probably the same as the
Thomas Scott (Will 1635) of Canterbury who devised his house in Godmersham
with land to the poor of that place, as nominated by his heir or failing
that by his kinsman Sir Edward Scott (the son and also probably g-son of
the above Sir Thomas of Scotts Hall were Sir Edward's)
and perhaps the same Thomas Scott who, in 1614, was named in the Will of
Martin Maye (yeoman) of Godmersham as one of the trustees for the poor of
that parish.
Perhaps the Knatchbull is the same family as Knatchbull baron Brabourne?
Burke's Peerage 1938 has one of these Knatchbull's m into the Scott's of
Scott's Hall, but I can not see any mention of Thomas Scott of Egerton.
Hasted states that these Scotts claim to descend from John Balliol Regent
of Scotland (d 1269) and who was father to John Balliol, king of Scotland
(1250-1313, reigned 1292-1296). Apparently the Scotts of Scotts Hall's
coat of arms include three catherine wheels, the catherine wheel being part
of the Balliol coat of arms as can be seen at Balliol college, Oxford
University.
regards Adrian
>
>
Adrian (Surrey, UK) ACha...@CompuServe.Com
Reedpcgen
Hogben.
> In 1680, she came to Oyster Bay, L.I., N.Y., where her first husband
bought land in 1633.
Could you be so kind as to give us a little more information about this
connection? Is Dorothea mentioned in a will in England? Someone told me there
was some question as to whether this line was correct or not.
Waters (2:888) talks about her as if there were no question of her being
daughter of Thomas Scott of Eggerton, Kent, but he does not give the specific
proof. Can you help provide it?
There was a John Scott, son of the Baronet, who is also supposed to have
settled in New York, and there are a number of prominent early Virginians who
do have proof of connection into the Scott family (Wyatts, Kemps, etc.).
Thanks,
pcr
Leo van de Pas
Dear Paul,
To be honest I am only slightly interest in Dorothea.
I am after the first marriage of her father.
In my source it refers to (see Berry's "Kent Pedigrees" page 169).
My source may not be very good. It is "Americans of Royal Descent" by
Charles H. Browning. I have a few gripes about this book,
for instance the liberal use of Lady, when their fathers are only knights.
What it gives about Dorothea is :
baptised 22 September 1611, who came to Oyster Bay, Long Island, New York,
in 1680, with her children by her first husband (m.about 1636), Major
Daniel Gotherson, of Cromwell's army, who died 1666 (see Scull's "Life of
Dorothea Scott")
This book does not name her second husband but she must have married him
when she was about 59.
I hope you can find something to prove either way her parentage and if you
do I like to hear it.
Best wishes,
Leo van de Pas
Reedpcgen
>baptised 22 September 1611, who came to Oyster Bay, Long Island, New York,
>in 1680, with her children by her first husband (m.about 1636), Major
>Daniel Gotherson, of Cromwell's army, who died 1666 (see Scull's "Life of
>Dorothea Scott")
Gotherson should be traceable as a Cromwellian officer. When I get a chance,
I'll look into it. There may already be someting in the NYGBR. I was just
curious to know what you had.
Thanks,
pcr
Cristopher Nash
>. . . "Americans of Royal Descent" by Charles H. Browning. I have a few
>gripes about this book,for instance the liberal use of Lady, when their
>fathers are only knights.
No defense intended ;-> but you might like to look at Peter Coss, _The Lady
in Medieval England 1000-1500_ (1998) who discusses this issue at length
(Chap 3).
Cris
I Wallace
of Egerton, the following details are from "Pedigrees of the Families in
the County of Kent" by William Berry, published by Sherwood, Gilbert and
Piper, London, 1830 :-
Thomas Scott of Egerton, born about 1567, will dated 1635. He
married firstly Elizabeth, daughter and heiress of John Webb of Warhorne.
By Elizabeth he had an only child, Jane; no details are given of her fate,
the implication is that she dsp. Thomas married secondly Mary, daughter of
John Knathchbull of Mersham. By Mary he had four children, Thomas, Anne
(married Mr Pacemore), Mary (married Mr Bragg) and Catherine - fate
unspecified. There is no mention in Berry of a daughter of this Thomas
Scott called Dorothea. However it seems that the son Thomas (born 1604) had
a son Thomas and a daughter Dorothy; however this is inconsistent with a
baptism in 1611 for Dorothy.
Thomas Scott (born 1576) was the son of Charles Scott and Jane,
daughter of Sir Thomas Wyatt. Rainhold, the author of " The Discovery of
Witchcraft " was the brother of Charles and the uncle of Thomas.
Charles Scott was the son of Sir Reginald Scott, Sheriff of Kent
1542, sometime captain of the Castle of Calais and his second wife Mary,
the daughter of Brian Tuke. Reginald Scott married as his first wife
Emeline, daughter of Sir William Kempe. Many generations later the
forename Baliol is used in the eighteenth century by descendants of Sir
Reginald Scott and Emeline.
Sir Reginald Scott was the son of Sir John Scott and Anne, only
daughter and heiress of Reginalde Pimpe of Nettlested by a daughter of John
Pashley.
Sir John Scott was the son of Sir William Scott, Knight of the
Bath, Sheriff of Kent, Constable of Dover Castle, Lord Warden of the Cinque
Ports and Sybille, daughter of Sir Thomas Lewknor.
Sir William Scott's brother was Thomas Scott, alias Rotheram,
Archbishop of York and Privy Councillor to King Edward IV. Sir Wiilliam and
Thomas Scott were sons of Sir John Scott, Sheriff, Comptroller of the
Household to King Edward IV, Lord of Chilham, Marshall of Calais and Agnes
daughter and heiress of William Beaufitz of the Grange in Gillingham.
Sir John Scott (buried 17/10/1485) was the son of Sir William Scott
of Brabourne and Elizabeth or Isabell daughter of Vincent Herbert alias
Finche. Sir William Scott is the earliest Scott named in Berry's pedigree,
he died in 1433. Berry adds the comment "Note, - There is a pedigree which
runs six descents higher in Hasted's MSS in the British Museum."
From an examination of Berry's pedigree it is clear that there was
a close connection between the Scott and Knatchbull families as there are
several other intermarriages. Berry includes a pedigree of the Knatchbull
family back to a Thomas Knatchbull (? mid 15th C).
I am working from fragmentary copies of Berry but have fairly easy
access to an original.
Ian Wallace (in Bexleyheath Kent)
Leo van de Pas
I would love to, but think it might be difficult for me to get access to
that book. Perhaps wrongly, but I gave up on the Australian Library system
a long time ago. When I ask if they can help with the names of the parents
of Hermann Goering and then being asked "Is that a West Australian family?"
or when asking about books about Goya "How do you spell that?", this
inflates my trust and confidence in them. In Australia government money is
very tight and as a result so have become many of their services. On top of
that, through circumstances, I am almost housebound and don't want to go to
town to pick up books they may or may not have.
However, I understand that before 1500 honorifics, especially for women,
were hard to come by. To be polite and call a woman 'Lady' is one thing,
but to 'have' the honorific when your father is 'only' a knight, I doubt.
Many thanks for your remark, I will try to get hold of that book seeing it
is quite recent. But I will do it via a bookshop.
Best wishes
Leo van de Pas
Mardi Carter
book on the Scotts of Scotts Hall on order from LDS, but have not seen
it yet. Other than than I only have the word of Kemp family writers.
My husband descends from the Kemp line. Any suggestions?
mbc
Kay Robinson
Pas) had sharpened a new quill and scribbled:
>Dear Cris,
> I would love to, but think it might be difficult for me to get access to
>that book. Perhaps wrongly, but I gave up on the Australian Library system
>a long time ago. When I ask if they can help with the names of the parents
>of Hermann Goering and then being asked "Is that a West Australian family?"
>or when asking about books about Goya "How do you spell that?", this
>inflates my trust and confidence in them. In Australia government money is
>very tight and as a result so have become many of their services. On top of
>that, through circumstances, I am almost housebound and don't want to go to
>town to pick up books they may or may not have.
A problem we who are housebound here in England can verify - the
seeming lack of basic literary knowledge in most public library
employees these days. Having been served over a period of many years
by my local library, always helpful and knowledgable, I recently asked
to borrow a copy of 'Baker's Northants' and the book delivered was 'A
Dictionary of the Northamptonshire Dialect' Vol II, edited by Mrs
Baker.
On telephoning and pointing out their error I was coldly told "What
can you expect when you don't give the full title, author and
publication details". I wonder what I would have received had I asked
for a copy of 'White's Selbourne' or 'Gray's Anatomy'. The problem I
think is that in order to cut staff costs, decently educated staff are
being replaced with 'Work Experience' staff or similar. Of course I
could be wrong and it's simply the falling educational standards.
Which, considering the amount of spelling errors and bad grammar I see
on this medium (often from seats of learning) is a more likely
explanation.
Kay
Give all you can, take only what you need
Kay Robinson <ad...@dial.pipex.com>
http://dspace.dial.pipex.com/town/square/ad173/
http://www.community-care.org.uk/
People come first